Then why could this killer not obtain a gun legally?
his took the guns from his mom??right??
why a teacher own guns and not books??
cos she could own guns..
Pandora..numbers cant tell wrong...so many killings at a country allow guns..
less killings to other countries that have different laws about them..
what the difficult to understand??..its time things to change...
the laws you have now,isnt enough to provide any kind of safety..
Are you also suggesting the banning of all guns for all Americans?
And also judging the killer's Mother for owning guns?
The laws we have did not allow him to buy a gun legally.
So all the laws in the world will not stop someone who wants to kill.
We must address the mental illness that made this boy want to kill.
what law would have prevented him from getting his own guns?
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Has the word 'ban' or 'banning' been mentioned by anyone in this thread? I don't think so... Why do pro-gun people straight away go to this extreme?
I asked is all because we have laws and this killer could not get a gun legally. So our laws worked. But it proves that laws can not stop someone from killing.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,088
I disagree- most people are not so naive as to think there is an easy solution.
Maybe it's time to stop talking guns and get down to the difficult business of looking for solutions.
The only solution is to fix people.
The only thing that would have stopped this killer and the ones we have seen recently
is mental health help. That is the only way to have prevented this.
Prevent the killer from wanting to kill.
Good point, Pandora.
Maybe we need to start with de-stigmatizing (my computer doesn't like that work but you know what I mean) mental illness. If our kidneys fail we receive treatment, care and sympathy. If the brain fails, we get isolation, hushed voices, lock ups, stigmatized and thus people are afraid or ashamed to get treatment for ourselves or parents are afraid or ashamed to get treatment for their child. This is not a proposal for an easy solution, but it's a start.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
what law would have prevented him from getting his own guns?
None Zoso. The only reason he didn't purchase one is that he had the waiting period and he didn't want to wait. If he didn't mind, he would have had a legally owned gun.
Has the word 'ban' or 'banning' been mentioned by anyone in this thread? I don't think so... Why do pro-gun people straight away go to this extreme?
I asked is all because we have laws and this killer could not get a gun legally. So our laws worked. But it proves that laws can not stop someone from killing.
the ONLY reason he didn't buy a gun because he didn't want to wait 2 weeks for the background check... but he would have been approved. why do you say he wouldn't have?
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
millions of people have mental health issues in the world and not all want to kill children... if you take away his access to guns he doesn't do it.. pure and simple.
humans are inherently violent by nature... we can't stop this but we can stop their access to weapons like this...
so easy to understand this...i really dont fit in my mind,why people dont understand that simple thing..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Has the word 'ban' or 'banning' been mentioned by anyone in this thread? I don't think so... Why do pro-gun people straight away go to this extreme?
I asked is all because we have laws and this killer could not get a gun legally. So our laws worked. But it proves that laws can not stop someone from killing.
No Pandora. Try to understand. NOTHING stopped him from purchasing a gun. HE did not want to go through the purchase because he had to wait and he did not want to wait. If he did, he would have had the gun.
what law would have prevented him from getting his own guns?
None Zoso. The only reason he didn't purchase one is that he had the waiting period and he didn't want to wait. If he didn't mind, he would have had a legally owned gun.
how ironic is this...
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
what law would have prevented him from getting his own guns?
The laws that did. He tried to buy guns a few days before the shooting.
He couldn't. He was to young to purchase a hand gun. I believe he was carrying his brothers ID
to try to get it illegally. Red flag there, huh? Enforce the laws we have.
Has the word 'ban' or 'banning' been mentioned by anyone in this thread? I don't think so... Why do pro-gun people straight away go to this extreme?
I asked is all because we have laws and this killer could not get a gun legally. So our laws worked. But it proves that laws can not stop someone from killing.
no they didn't. the laws allowed a regular human being to own assault weapons. 20 children are dead. that means the law failed, and failed miserably.
the chinese knife attacker actually proved that gun laws prevent someone from killing. he INJURED many people, but none of them died.
proof is in the pudding.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Has the word 'ban' or 'banning' been mentioned by anyone in this thread? I don't think so... Why do pro-gun people straight away go to this extreme?
I asked is all because we have laws and this killer could not get a gun legally. So our laws worked. But it proves that laws can not stop someone from killing.
No Pandora. Try to understand. NOTHING stopped him from purchasing a gun. HE did not want to go through the purchase because he had to wait and he did not want to wait. If he did, he would have had the gun.
No Pandora. Try to understand. NOTHING stopped him from purchasing a gun. HE did not want to go through the purchase because he had to wait and he did not want to wait. If he did, he would have had the gun.
I asked is all because we have laws and this killer could not get a gun legally. So our laws worked. But it proves that laws can not stop someone from killing.
No Pandora. Try to understand. NOTHING stopped him from purchasing a gun. HE did not want to go through the purchase because he had to wait and he did not want to wait. If he did, he would have had the gun.
I guess you didn't hear the news show I did
So you're finding this a laughing matter, are you? I'm not.
There are a number of firearms he could have purchased at a dealer (he tried to purchase a rifle). He could have purchased anything he wanted over the internet (there again, needed time for delivery).
"Sources said Lanza entered the gun store "earlier in the week" in the Newtown area and inquired about buying one rifle. He did not have a permit for firearms, and was told about a 14-day background check that would have to be done, the sources said.
"He didn't want to wait the 14 days," said one source, declining to be identified because the case is still under review. "So they denied him. The sale did not take place.""
No Pandora. Try to understand. NOTHING stopped him from purchasing a gun. HE did not want to go through the purchase because he had to wait and he did not want to wait. If he did, he would have had the gun.
I guess you didn't hear the news show I did
why are you laughing?
I find this very odd behaviour as well, but I've seen it before.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
why is the 90% of gun deaths in the industrialzied woirld in America? Reading these threads about how people want to hold their guns close to their sides at night is a huge reason. I don't think gun laws would help in America.. it's a bizarre culture indeed. the violent movies are in Greece, Australia and the UK...
People have personality disorders and other mental illnesses in other countries but aren't shooting up schools... why are we blaming mental health! the only difference in America is more guns and ridiculous laws.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
why is the 90% of gun deaths in the industrialzied woirld in America? Reading these threads about how people want to hold their guns close to their sides at night is a huge reason. I don't think gun laws would help in America.. it's a bizarre culture indeed. the violent movies are in Greece, Australia and the UK...
People have personality disorders and other mental illnesses in other countries but aren't shooting up schools... why are we blaming mental health! the only difference in America is more guns and ridiculous laws.
because they will blame anything else to keep their right to their precious guns.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
why is the 90% of gun deaths in the industrialzied woirld in America? Reading these threads about how people want to hold their guns close to their sides at night is a huge reason. I don't think gun laws would help in America.. it's a bizarre culture indeed. the violent movies are in Greece, Australia and the UK...
People have personality disorders and other mental illnesses in other countries but aren't shooting up schools... why are we blaming mental health! the only difference in America is more guns and ridiculous laws.
because they will blame anything else to keep their right to their precious guns.
it is deflection. nothing more.
it is like:
interviewer: "mr senator, why do you support gun rights and the right to have assault rifles as vehemently as you do?"
senator: "hey look over there, is that elvis??" runs away....
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Did I miss where a good guy killed this shooter? I thought he killed himself like the rest if them have done. I can only remember two times where a good guy intervened.u
Did I miss where a good guy killed this shooter? I thought he killed himself like the rest if them have done. I can only remember two times where a good guy intervened.u
they are saying if the teachers had been armed, everyone would be eating milk and cookies and laughing about this now.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Did I miss where a good guy killed this shooter? I thought he killed himself like the rest if them have done. I can only remember two times where a good guy intervened.u
they are saying if the teachers had been armed, everyone would be eating milk and cookies and in therapy for having seen or heard someone killed in front of them
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Even if they were. He was an adult living in the house and 'sharing' the use of the guns with his mother. Don't think that locked up or not would have made much difference.
Even if they were. He was an adult living in the house and 'sharing' the use of the guns with his mother. Don't think that locked up or not would have made much difference.
Certainly it would... if they are locked in a case that only the mom has a key to, there is no way he's getting those guns.
I understand what you're saying but let's view this 2 adults living together where there are 'household' guns owned by one of them. Say a couple - he has legal ownership of a gun that is used for 'protection' He is 'responsible' and the gun is under lock and key as is the ammo (in a different location, of course). Hubby is out, wife at home on her own. Hears a noise, fears an intruder, needs the gun for 'protection'. Takes the keys, takes the gun. Its that also stealing as, technically she didn't purchase the gun? should hubby have the only set of keys on him, all the time? Regardless? Defeating theIr purpose of ownership. Should they each have their own guns?
With little kids, the answer is simple. But with adults, it's fuzzy I think.
I understand what you're saying but let's view this 2 adults living together where there are 'household' guns owned by one of them. Say a couple - he has legal ownership of a gun that is used for 'protection' He is 'responsible' and the gun is under lock and key as is the ammo (in a different location, of course). Hubby is out, wife at home on her own. Hears a noise, fears an intruder, needs the gun for 'protection'. Takes the keys, takes the gun. Its that also stealing as, technically she didn't purchase the gun? should hubby have the only set of keys on him, all the time? Regardless? Defeating theIr purpose of ownership. Should they each have their own guns?
With little kids, the answer is simple. But with adults, it's fuzzy I think.
It's stealing, it is possessing a gun illegally. Depending on the state, permits are needed
to purchase and use a handgun, as in CT. And you must be 21.
The mall shooter and this young man both acquired their guns illegally.
This mother made some mistakes right? Mothers do that. Was she shocked when he
pulled the trigger taking her life? My gut tells me not as much as one would think.
People know when someone is mentally ill, they are just unable to get them the help
they need.
No Pandora. Try to understand. NOTHING stopped him from purchasing a gun. HE did not want to go through the purchase because he had to wait and he did not want to wait. If he did, he would have had the gun.
I guess you didn't hear the news show I did
why are you laughing?
I was laughing because of the very weird way the media has handled this. All the misreporting and rumors flying.
My understanding is he carried his brothers ID to try to get by the age requirement.
And something went wrong with that.
The ID must have been stolen years ago because they have not spoken in two years,
it was reported.
And God guys somebody really thinks people would be laughing about this?
No one is laughing at anything other than what I said. News reporting.
I think most gun owners are probably responsible gun owners. At least I hope so. Unfortunately, most of us have probably learned the hard way at some point that no matter how much you try and safe guard your stuff, that doesn't mean it won't get stolen. Twenty year olds steal cars out of neighbors' driveways. They are savvy enough to crack code and steal identities. They are certainly savvy enough to figure out where mom or dad keep the keys to the car or the gun cabinet or a way around the lock. Maybe a gun owner has no history of mental illness, but they may have a partner or a child that is suicidal. I don't think they can guarantee against that person getting that gun if they want to die badly enough. It's just a risk that they must acknowledge they are taking. Unfortunately if that person is also narcissistic or antisocial and they are determined to take others out along with them or to make a name for themselves along the way, some innocents are going to pay the price for that risk as well.
I certainly don't think banning guns is the answer to ridding our country of violence. Guns certainly are not the only ingredient, nor the stimulus for violence, but they are an ingredient that turns the heat up several notches. Their destructiveness intensifies the violence tenfold. Our country does need to value mental health care more, but I'm not sure of the role that played in this situation yet. Asperger's has no link to pre-planned violence (I am so disheartened to see so much misinformation out there! I fear autism-spectrum disorders will become the new schizophrenia). A personality disorder would have much more of a connection to this kind of violence, but there is no medication, no hospitalization and no short-term therapy that is going to correct someone's way of relating to and interacting with the world (a personality disorder is a way of relating, not an "illness"). I think we live in a society that values individual rights above the good of the whole and that plays a part here. I just can't even stomach a debate over gun rights when these little lives haven't even been laid to rest yet; I think the focus on that right is very telling. There is no simple answer, no one place to lay the blame, but we absolutely have to start somewhere in making changes. This is just too fucking much.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
But you know what CBG, once these little ones and their teachers have been laid to rest and there's nothing more of interest to the sensationalist media; once the media have done with the killer, the 'nutter', this story will go away. Until the next time. As insensitive as it may seem, one needs to beat the iron while it's hot. I think this was one outrage too many and I really hope something comes out of it. And I'm not just talking about revised gun laws.
Comments
what law would have prevented him from getting his own guns?
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
So our laws worked. But it proves that laws can not stop someone from killing.
Good point, Pandora.
Maybe we need to start with de-stigmatizing (my computer doesn't like that work but you know what I mean) mental illness. If our kidneys fail we receive treatment, care and sympathy. If the brain fails, we get isolation, hushed voices, lock ups, stigmatized and thus people are afraid or ashamed to get treatment for ourselves or parents are afraid or ashamed to get treatment for their child. This is not a proposal for an easy solution, but it's a start.
None Zoso. The only reason he didn't purchase one is that he had the waiting period and he didn't want to wait. If he didn't mind, he would have had a legally owned gun.
the ONLY reason he didn't buy a gun because he didn't want to wait 2 weeks for the background check... but he would have been approved. why do you say he wouldn't have?
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
He couldn't. He was to young to purchase a hand gun. I believe he was carrying his brothers ID
to try to get it illegally. Red flag there, huh? Enforce the laws we have.
no they didn't. the laws allowed a regular human being to own assault weapons. 20 children are dead. that means the law failed, and failed miserably.
the chinese knife attacker actually proved that gun laws prevent someone from killing. he INJURED many people, but none of them died.
proof is in the pudding.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
why are you laughing?
So you're finding this a laughing matter, are you? I'm not.
There are a number of firearms he could have purchased at a dealer (he tried to purchase a rifle). He could have purchased anything he wanted over the internet (there again, needed time for delivery).
"Sources said Lanza entered the gun store "earlier in the week" in the Newtown area and inquired about buying one rifle. He did not have a permit for firearms, and was told about a 14-day background check that would have to be done, the sources said.
"He didn't want to wait the 14 days," said one source, declining to be identified because the case is still under review. "So they denied him. The sale did not take place.""
I find this very odd behaviour as well, but I've seen it before.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
People have personality disorders and other mental illnesses in other countries but aren't shooting up schools... why are we blaming mental health! the only difference in America is more guns and ridiculous laws.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
because they will blame anything else to keep their right to their precious guns.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
it is like:
interviewer: "mr senator, why do you support gun rights and the right to have assault rifles as vehemently as you do?"
senator: "hey look over there, is that elvis??" runs away....
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Key Arena - Nov 05, 2000
Gorge Amphitheater - Sep 01, 2005, Jul 22,23, 2006
Key Arena - Sept 21,22, 2009
Alpine Valley - Sept 3, 4 2011
they are saying if the teachers had been armed, everyone would be eating milk and cookies and laughing about this now.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Were the guns locked up? I doubt it
in CT.
Certainly it would... if they are locked in a case that only the mom has a key to, there is no way he's getting those guns.
Edit: Unless he steals the keys/finds them/etc.
you get my point
With little kids, the answer is simple. But with adults, it's fuzzy I think.
to purchase and use a handgun, as in CT. And you must be 21.
The mall shooter and this young man both acquired their guns illegally.
This mother made some mistakes right? Mothers do that. Was she shocked when he
pulled the trigger taking her life? My gut tells me not as much as one would think.
People know when someone is mentally ill, they are just unable to get them the help
they need.
My understanding is he carried his brothers ID to try to get by the age requirement.
And something went wrong with that.
The ID must have been stolen years ago because they have not spoken in two years,
it was reported.
And God guys somebody really thinks people would be laughing about this?
No one is laughing at anything other than what I said. News reporting.
I certainly don't think banning guns is the answer to ridding our country of violence. Guns certainly are not the only ingredient, nor the stimulus for violence, but they are an ingredient that turns the heat up several notches. Their destructiveness intensifies the violence tenfold. Our country does need to value mental health care more, but I'm not sure of the role that played in this situation yet. Asperger's has no link to pre-planned violence (I am so disheartened to see so much misinformation out there! I fear autism-spectrum disorders will become the new schizophrenia). A personality disorder would have much more of a connection to this kind of violence, but there is no medication, no hospitalization and no short-term therapy that is going to correct someone's way of relating to and interacting with the world (a personality disorder is a way of relating, not an "illness"). I think we live in a society that values individual rights above the good of the whole and that plays a part here. I just can't even stomach a debate over gun rights when these little lives haven't even been laid to rest yet; I think the focus on that right is very telling. There is no simple answer, no one place to lay the blame, but we absolutely have to start somewhere in making changes. This is just too fucking much.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"