Eddie Vedder and "unnecessary war"

BinauralJam

GetALife wrote:

I have to correct myself. The article in which the sentence "soldiers are murderers" is from, was written in 1931. But it doesn't really matter at all. Because it's true anyway.

I mean, I am not blind. I know about people going to the army because they think they can feed their kids with the salary and promote themselves for a better future in college or for whatever. It's just human wanting to live a good life and do what you can to make it good with the opportunities you get. - But, let's be honest. This whole fucking thing called manhood and what it's worth and where it's heading to is based on the little decisions made by everyone every second of their lifes, over and over again. And deciding being a soldier is something I can not imagine coming from a sane mind and soul. And then I should feel sorry for their trauma? Well, apparently, the government gives a shit about their trauma. That is another problem, I see that. But on the other hand: You went to war for your country? Well, then deal with the consequences! A country is nothing that is worth to kill someone for. Don't tell me you believed that in the first place...please. ... "I am a patriot, and I love my country, because my country is all I know" - And everything you don't know you just blow away. Well done. Suicide is also an individual decision. It's not sadder than what they've probably done abroad in the wars they were engaging in. Maybe it's an equation they solved for themselves by subtracting their 'bodies of war' out of this world. But I am sure: (Self-)Forgiveness is better than a bullet. Everyone is making mistakes. Admitting is a start. But, Eddie, if you are reading this, please don't fool me with this term "(un)necessary war". No one will ever learn from history if we keep disguising the ugly truth with words like that.

I Think this is Awesome!!! :thumbup:

cincybearcat

polaris_x wrote:

Staceb10 wrote:

I completely agree. I'd rather my tax money go to help soliders than give deadbeats free cell phones. And I know with all the peace, love and happiness over here (won't even fight to protect your own family???) I'm sure this comment will get me blasted (or banned) but as the mother of someone in the Middle East right now protecting the OP's right to be voice his opinion, I hope a veteran catches you in a dark alley one night.

do you really think your son is there to fight for freedom?

I gotta ask, because I forget, but do you have kids? Because the way you pose your question tells me hell no, but maybe I'm wrong.

peacefrompaul

Staceb10 wrote:

I completely agree. I'd rather my tax money go to help soliders than give deadbeats free cell phones. And I know with all the peace, love and happiness over here (won't even fight to protect your own family???) I'm sure this comment will get me blasted (or banned) but as the mother of someone in the Middle East right now protecting the OP's right to be voice his opinion, I hope a veteran catches you in a dark alley one night.

I hope you wake up and realize that your son is over there for absolutely nothing but to make a select few people a lot of money.

Your son is not protecting our freedom's at all... killing people and sticking up embassies is not how you protect freedom in this country. I'm sorry if you can't come to that realization.

These "wars" are expensive and cause a great deal of suffering.

I love the troops, I just don't like to see them out nation building and policing the globe. I have friends that are in the service, I have a friend that just served a tour.

My mom was in the military, my dad was for 22 years, my uncle was killed in Vietnam, my grandpa was in WWII...

At least my dad agrees with me that these wars are fucked up.

polaris_x

cincybearcat wrote:

I gotta ask, because I forget, but do you have kids? Because the way you pose your question tells me hell no, but maybe I'm wrong.

no ... i don't ... i'm sorry if the question appears to be insensitive ... but the reality is much of the war perpetrated around the world has nothing to do with humanity or peace or freedom ... and it's this cone of silence we employ as it relates to the troops that allows gross violations of human rights to continue to happen ...

the fact of the matter is nothing in the US most recent history indicates a military that purpose is altruistic ... and if people realized this - i would suspect there would be a lot less people "volunteering" ...

JonnyPistachio

Staceb10 wrote:

I'm sure this comment will get me blasted (or banned) but as the mother of someone in the Middle East right now protecting the OP's right to be voice his opinion, I hope a veteran catches you in a dark alley one night.

I am always amazed when people spout off the old "this soldier makes it possible for you to speak freely" bit.
Its a ludicrous thing to say and it comes off very childish.

Hope a veteran catches you in a dark alley one night? :? Like one of these folks:
http://www.ivaw.org/about (Veterans against Iraqi war)

cincybearcat

polaris_x wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

I gotta ask, because I forget, but do you have kids? Because the way you pose your question tells me hell no, but maybe I'm wrong.

no ... i don't ... i'm sorry if the question appears to be insensitive ... but the reality is much of the war perpetrated around the world has nothing to do with humanity or peace or freedom ... and it's this cone of silence we employ as it relates to the troops that allows gross violations of human rights to continue to happen ...

the fact of the matter is nothing in the US most recent history indicates a military that purpose is altruistic ... and if people realized this - i would suspect there would be a lot less people "volunteering" ...

Yeah it does appear that way. I know you didn't mean it that way, but I can only wonder what kind of answer you expect to get from a mother with a son currently serving.

polaris_x

cincybearcat wrote:

Yeah it does appear that way. I know you didn't mean it that way, but I can only wonder what kind of answer you expect to get from a mother with a son currently serving.

in the grand scheme of things - it really doesn't matter ... my sensitivity to her will only go so far when taken in the context of what war has done to the many suffering in these war zones ... at the end of the day - if people continue to blindly follow along some myth about freedom and what not - all it is doing is extending the license by which more suffering will be sanctioned ...

Staceb10

polaris_x wrote:

Staceb10 wrote:

I completely agree. I'd rather my tax money go to help soliders than give deadbeats free cell phones. And I know with all the peace, love and happiness over here (won't even fight to protect your own family???) I'm sure this comment will get me blasted (or banned) but as the mother of someone in the Middle East right now protecting the OP's right to be voice his opinion, I hope a veteran catches you in a dark alley one night.

do you really think your son is there to fight for freedom?

I think he's there because he joined the military and is doing his duty for that position. Do I think having a military is necessary and protects our way of life? Yes, I do.

Staceb10

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Staceb10 wrote:

I'm sure this comment will get me blasted (or banned) but as the mother of someone in the Middle East right now protecting the OP's right to be voice his opinion, I hope a veteran catches you in a dark alley one night.

I am always amazed when people spout off the old "this soldier makes it possible for you to speak freely" bit.
Its a ludicrous thing to say and it comes off very childish.

Hope a veteran catches you in a dark alley one night? :? Like one of these folks:
http://www.ivaw.org/about (Veterans against Iraqi war)

Ludicrous to say? Tell that to the soldiers who died fighting the British and helped to create the US.

I think you have missed the point of my comment. I still think that those Veteran's wouldn't appreciate being told they signed up for the trauma so tough shit if they have problems.

Whether the Iraq war or World War II were necessary or not has nothing to do with my comments. It's the disdain and lack of support for the individuals fighting that I have a problem with.

Staceb10

polaris_x wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Yeah it does appear that way. I know you didn't mean it that way, but I can only wonder what kind of answer you expect to get from a mother with a son currently serving.

in the grand scheme of things - it really doesn't matter ... my sensitivity to her will only go so far when taken in the context of what war has done to the many suffering in these war zones ... at the end of the day - if people continue to blindly follow along some myth about freedom and what not - all it is doing is extending the license by which more suffering will be sanctioned ...

I'm really not going to get into a discussion on the "is any war necessary" and all that jazz around here. I just found the OP's comments about not wanting to help soliders because they signed up for a little upsetting.

brianlux

Staceb10 wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

Staceb10 wrote:

I completely agree. I'd rather my tax money go to help soliders than give deadbeats free cell phones. And I know with all the peace, love and happiness over here (won't even fight to protect your own family???) I'm sure this comment will get me blasted (or banned) but as the mother of someone in the Middle East right now protecting the OP's right to be voice his opinion, I hope a veteran catches you in a dark alley one night.

do you really think your son is there to fight for freedom?

I think he's there because he joined the military and is doing his duty for that position. Do I think having a military is necessary and protects our way of life? Yes, I do.

I'm curious, do you find it objectionable to question the wisdom of our way of life?

hedonist

Staceb10 wrote:

I think you have missed the point of my comment. I still think that those Veteran's wouldn't appreciate being told they signed up for the trauma so tough shit if they have problems.

Whether the Iraq war or World War II were necessary or not has nothing to do with my comments. It's the disdain and lack of support for the individuals fighting that I have a problem with.

Agreed on your "tough shit" comment, and good thoughts that your son (all the sons and daughters) are kept safe as can be.

Staceb10

brianlux wrote:

I'm curious, do you find it objectionable to question the wisdom of our way of life?

I don't find it objectionable to question anything.

peacefrompaul

Staceb10 wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Yeah it does appear that way. I know you didn't mean it that way, but I can only wonder what kind of answer you expect to get from a mother with a son currently serving.

in the grand scheme of things - it really doesn't matter ... my sensitivity to her will only go so far when taken in the context of what war has done to the many suffering in these war zones ... at the end of the day - if people continue to blindly follow along some myth about freedom and what not - all it is doing is extending the license by which more suffering will be sanctioned ...

I'm really not going to get into a discussion on the "is any war necessary" and all that jazz around here. I just found the OP's comments about not wanting to help soliders because they signed up for a little upsetting.

And I agree with that

butterjam

Byrnzie wrote:

know1 wrote:

And so kill someone else's friends and family? Are mine more valuable or worthy to live?

Then you'd probably like this little book: http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/m/hen ... rderer.htm

I can't find an online version, but I have a copy at home in England. I read it a long time ago, and it gives a pretty good case for turning one's back on war.
It's also available in his book 'Remember To Remember': http://www.amazon.com/Remember-Henry-Mi ... 0811201139

As for me, I'm not sure what I'd do. I think it would depend on the circumstances. I'd certainly never go and fight some bullshit foreign war in order to fill the pockets of the war-mongering fat bellies in the 1%.

Another great book is "War is a Racket" by Smedley Butler. He was the most decorated Marine ever at the time of his death and received the medal of honor TWICE!

Smellyman

Staceb10 wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Staceb10 wrote:

I'm sure this comment will get me blasted (or banned) but as the mother of someone in the Middle East right now protecting the OP's right to be voice his opinion, I hope a veteran catches you in a dark alley one night.

I am always amazed when people spout off the old "this soldier makes it possible for you to speak freely" bit.
Its a ludicrous thing to say and it comes off very childish.

Hope a veteran catches you in a dark alley one night? :? Like one of these folks:
http://www.ivaw.org/about (Veterans against Iraqi war)

Ludicrous to say? Tell that to the soldiers who died fighting the British and helped to create the US.

I know right. The US could've ended up like Canada or Australia.

Horrible.

BinauralJam

To Stacie,i think you've handled yourself with well, AMT can be brutal, i don't agree with your opinion but, Hope your boy comes home safe.

peacefrompaul

BinauralJam wrote:

To Stacie,i think you've handled yourself with well, AMT can be brutal, i don't agree with your opinion but, Hope your boy comes home safe.

Smellyman

polaris_x wrote:

Staceb10 wrote:

I completely agree. I'd rather my tax money go to help soliders than give deadbeats free cell phones. And I know with all the peace, love and happiness over here (won't even fight to protect your own family???) I'm sure this comment will get me blasted (or banned) but as the mother of someone in the Middle East right now protecting the OP's right to be voice his opinion, I hope a veteran catches you in a dark alley one night.

do you really think your son is there to fight for freedom?

Drowned Out

cincybearcat wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

Staceb10 wrote:

I completely agree. I'd rather my tax money go to help soliders than give deadbeats free cell phones. And I know with all the peace, love and happiness over here (won't even fight to protect your own family???) I'm sure this comment will get me blasted (or banned) but as the mother of someone in the Middle East right now protecting the OP's right to be voice his opinion, I hope a veteran catches you in a dark alley one night.

do you really think your son is there to fight for freedom?

I gotta ask, because I forget, but do you have kids? Because the way you pose your question tells me hell no, but maybe I'm wrong.

I have kids and I agree wholeheartedly with polaris, peacefrompaul, brianlux, jp, and whoever else is calling the freedom statement a joke.
staceb has been here a long time (wasn't she part of the amt's pro-Bush team in the mid-90s?) I'm sure she expected criticism of her point. Her second statement; that US soldiers are' protecting our way of life' is MUCH more accurate than 'protecting freedom'.