Eddie Vedder and "unnecessary war"

24

Comments

  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    They deserve much more than they get.
    Yep.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,460
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Additionally, there are a few other instances where something, like an attack, could lead to you taking the war to them. Like Afghanistan in my opinion.

    When you say 'them', you mean the Saudi Arabian's that happened to be residing in Afghanistan at the time, right? The same Saudi's who the Afghan leadership offered to hand over to the U.S if the U.S provided proof that they were guilty, as is the case in any such situation involving international terrorism, or any other extradition request.


    Well to be fair, Al Qaeda isn;t really part of anyone one nation. And so the fact that the people were Saudi isn't that compelling. But the fact that their leader was in Afghanistan and being helped by the "government" in charge there.....

    But I do see your point.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,087

    You are telling me Hitler didnt need taken out? You are telling me that there is no evil. You are missing one major point, that there are evil men with armies who also need taken out. You didnt think to yourself on 9.12 that whoever did that needs taken out? North Korea hates South, what if they attack them? If you understand human nature well enough, as im sure you claim, you would also understand the need for war sometimes

    Yes, there are "evil men with armies". What was it your Jesus said about casting the first stone?
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
    Democracy Dies in Darkness- Washington Post













  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,087
    riotgrl wrote:


    Of course, Hitler needed to be taken out BUT examine the history and tell me why it was allowed to even get to that point? Stronger wills could have prevented that war and the Holocaust if aggressive action had been taken before it ended in all out war.

    Yes, riotgrl, and that was one of the points I- well, didn't make so clear. We let Hitler happen in the first place.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
    Democracy Dies in Darkness- Washington Post













  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,524
    I think we should all give a listen to Howard Zinn about right now.

    http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2010/1/8/howard_zinn_three_holy_wars

    love listening to him talk on this subject.

    we sent planes over Tokyo to set Tokyo afire with firebombs, and 100,000 people died in one night of bombing in Tokyo. Altogether we killed over half a million people in Japan, civilians. And some people said, “Well, they bombed Pearl Harbor.” That’s really something. These people did not bomb Pearl Harbor. Those children did not bomb Pearl Harbor. But this notion of violent revenge and retaliation is something we’ve got to get rid of.




    more

    Well, let’s first look at the cost of the war, on one side of the balance sheet. The cost of the war. In lives, I mean. Twenty-five thousand. Hey, that’s nothing, right? Twenty-five thousand? We lost 58,000 in Vietnam. That’s — 25,000 — did you even know how many lives were lost in the Revolutionary War? It’s hardly worth talking about. In proportion to population — in proportion to the Revolutionary War population of the colonies, 25,000 would be equivalent today to two-and-a-half million. Two-and-a-half million. Let’s fight a war. We’re being oppressed by England. Let’s fight for independence. Two-and-a-half million people will die, but we’ll have independence. Would you have second thoughts? You might. In other words, I want to make that 25,000, which seems like an insignificant figure, I want to make it palpable and real and not to be minimized as a cost of the Revolutionary War, and to keep that in mind in the balance sheet as we look at whatever other factors there are. So, yes, we win independence against England. Great. And it only cost two-and-a-half million. OK?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,087
    Smellyman wrote:
    I think we should all give a listen to Howard Zinn about right now.

    http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2010/1/8/howard_zinn_three_holy_wars

    love listening to him talk on this subject.

    we sent planes over Tokyo to set Tokyo afire with firebombs, and 100,000 people died in one night of bombing in Tokyo. Altogether we killed over half a million people in Japan, civilians. And some people said, “Well, they bombed Pearl Harbor.” That’s really something. These people did not bomb Pearl Harbor. Those children did not bomb Pearl Harbor. But this notion of violent revenge and retaliation is something we’ve got to get rid of.




    more

    Well, let’s first look at the cost of the war, on one side of the balance sheet. The cost of the war. In lives, I mean. Twenty-five thousand. Hey, that’s nothing, right? Twenty-five thousand? We lost 58,000 in Vietnam. That’s — 25,000 — did you even know how many lives were lost in the Revolutionary War? It’s hardly worth talking about. In proportion to population — in proportion to the Revolutionary War population of the colonies, 25,000 would be equivalent today to two-and-a-half million. Two-and-a-half million. Let’s fight a war. We’re being oppressed by England. Let’s fight for independence. Two-and-a-half million people will die, but we’ll have independence. Would you have second thoughts? You might. In other words, I want to make that 25,000, which seems like an insignificant figure, I want to make it palpable and real and not to be minimized as a cost of the Revolutionary War, and to keep that in mind in the balance sheet as we look at whatever other factors there are. So, yes, we win independence against England. Great. And it only cost two-and-a-half million. OK?

    :clap:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
    Democracy Dies in Darkness- Washington Post













  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Attaway77 wrote:
    "And deciding being a soldier is something I can not imagine coming from a sane mind and soul. And then I should feel sorry for their trauma? Well, apparently, the government gives a shit about their trauma. That is another problem, I see that. But on the other hand: You went to war for your country? Well, then deal with the consequences!"

    What a shit thing to say.....
    After re-reading this thread (initial and corrected posts, anyway - and don't ask me WHY I re-read), I have to echo this sentiment.

    Whether anyone feels war is "necessary" or not, I find it a huge slap in the face of every man and woman who've literally put themselves on the front-line with the best of intent.

    Deal with the consequences, my ass.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    If you speak to Vietnamese people today, they think we saved them.
    ...
    Question: Are these Vietnamese people you speak of, living here in the U.S?
    If YES, then... Question: Why aren't they back in their home country that we saved for them?
    ...
    Thanx.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    Cosmo wrote:
    A couple of things...
    First off, I agree with your view, if there were no soldiers, there would be no war.
    Unfortunately, we live in a world where greed is boundless and benefits from war. Since there are wars, we have to face the consequences of it. The main consequence, death and injury.
    I understand the view that supports the soldier, but not the war. The soldier does not get to decide, the politicians make those decisions, based upon whatever their intentions. It is said that no one prays for peace more than the soldier who prepares for war.
    Next, I don't think it is patriotism that causes war.... it is the misconception that militarism is patriotism. Politicians will use patriotism as justification for war, but so often, it in not rooted in patriotism and more likely a lust for power and resources to feed greed and selfishness.
    Lastly... I wish there were no reason to fund organizations such as 'Wounded Warrior'. but, truth is, there is.
    Taking it a bit further, politicians use patriotism as a tool to get humans to go to war. It’s a constant conditioning of its people and is very effective (President Cheney, Hitler) Having all school children reciting the pledge of allegiance is blatant brainwashing/conditioning. We are exposed to this conditioning on daily basis and few are able to see it for what it is. Control.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    unsung wrote:
    I didn't see anyone mention the one thing that would keep us out of more wars. That is having Congress declare war according to the Constitution. If you made these people actually record a vote I think you'd see less of it, because they'd be the ones having to face their districts and explain why they want to keep sending our troops into conflicts. Sometime there is a good reason, so declare it, do your business, and get out. Enough of these 10+ year occupations where we no longer are there for the initial reason.

    Oh and I hate John McCain. POS.
    Think its very easy to get Americans to support another war, some slight of hand, few chants of USA USA and show someone with different skin color and or religion and we'll be backing them up with God and liberty. I say, have each congressman have a family member go to the front line as a Marine and that would solve it. :D

    As to McCain, I had some respect for the guy, had street cred for being POV, but he's just gone looney of late.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    hedonist wrote:
    Attaway77 wrote:
    "And deciding being a soldier is something I can not imagine coming from a sane mind and soul. And then I should feel sorry for their trauma? Well, apparently, the government gives a shit about their trauma. That is another problem, I see that. But on the other hand: You went to war for your country? Well, then deal with the consequences!"

    What a shit thing to say.....
    After re-reading this thread (initial and corrected posts, anyway - and don't ask me WHY I re-read), I have to echo this sentiment.

    Whether anyone feels war is "necessary" or not, I find it a huge slap in the face of every man and woman who've literally put themselves on the front-line with the best of intent.

    Deal with the consequences, my ass.
    No matter how chivalrous and charitable an action may be, humans do things for themselves, not for anyone else. If a human wants to join the Army, they do it because of their wants and needs, NOT to protect the motherland or some other noble cause.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • callen wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    Attaway77 wrote:
    "And deciding being a soldier is something I can not imagine coming from a sane mind and soul. And then I should feel sorry for their trauma? Well, apparently, the government gives a shit about their trauma. That is another problem, I see that. But on the other hand: You went to war for your country? Well, then deal with the consequences!"

    What a shit thing to say.....
    After re-reading this thread (initial and corrected posts, anyway - and don't ask me WHY I re-read), I have to echo this sentiment.

    Whether anyone feels war is "necessary" or not, I find it a huge slap in the face of every man and woman who've literally put themselves on the front-line with the best of intent.

    Deal with the consequences, my ass.
    No matter how chivalrous and charitable an action may be, humans do things for themselves, not for anyone else. If a human wants to join the Army, they do it because of their wants and needs, NOT to protect the motherland or some other noble cause.

    Well, you're wrong.
    "In the age of darkness
    want to be enlightened"
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    unsung wrote:
    I didn't see anyone mention the one thing that would keep us out of more wars. That is having Congress declare war according to the Constitution. If you made these people actually record a vote I think you'd see less of it, because they'd be the ones having to face their districts and explain why they want to keep sending our troops into conflicts. Sometime there is a good reason, so declare it, do your business, and get out. Enough of these 10+ year occupations where we no longer are there for the initial reason.

    Oh and I hate John McCain. POS.
    ...
    That is what got us into Iraq... Congress, handing over the War Powers act to the Executive branch. An act of cowardice on the part of OUR representatives because they were afraid of the political fallout of their decisions.
    ...
    P.S. I don't hate Sen. McCain... I completely disagree with him on most matters these days... but, I still honor and respect his service in the military.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    I don't think I'm wrong....its about the warm and fuzzy's one gets by doing something for someone else. Not a bad thing...it just is what it is. I'm glad people have need to help others...helps us as a society. I'm guilty, just know where the drive is coming from.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    callen wrote:
    I don't think I'm wrong....its about the warm and fuzzy's one gets by doing something for someone else. Not a bad thing...it just is what it is. I'm glad people have need to help others...helps us as a society. I'm guilty, just know where the drive is coming from.
    Actually, I think you're assuming where everyone's drive is coming from. How can you know someone else's true intent?

    Of course one of the motives is to feel better about oneself; it's natural - as with charity, for instance: The act of giving makes me feel wonderful, but that feeling is a by-product of the act and not necessarily the cause of action itself.

    That feel-good deal (using your term, as I find it odd to apply it to the battlefield) isn't THE motive, and it discounts - to me, anyway - the courage and yes, nobleness as well, of willing to put your life on the line to protect that of others.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,087
    hedonist wrote:
    callen wrote:
    I don't think I'm wrong....its about the warm and fuzzy's one gets by doing something for someone else. Not a bad thing...it just is what it is. I'm glad people have need to help others...helps us as a society. I'm guilty, just know where the drive is coming from.
    Actually, I think you're assuming where everyone's drive is coming from. How can you know someone else's true intent?

    Of course one of the motives is to feel better about oneself; it's natural - as with charity, for instance: The act of giving makes me feel wonderful, but that feeling is a by-product of the act and not necessarily the cause of action itself.

    That feel-good deal (using your term, as I find it odd to apply it to the battlefield) isn't THE motive, and it discounts - to me, anyway - the courage and yes, nobleness as well, of willing to put your life on the line to protect that of others.

    You know, I'm always a bit hesitant to disagree with you, hedonist, because I suspect you're smarter than I am, but I seriously doubt the motivation of the average enlistee is courage, nobleness, bravery and so forth. I suspect the motivations more often than not include uncertainty regarding career choice, education and training benefits, a means to legally act out violence, and bravado (which is not the same as bravery). Also, I don't believe most military actions taken by the industrialized nations are carried out with the intention to protect others or for defensive purposes.

    So, like I said, I don't support war or military enlistment. If a young person makes the choice to enlist and comes back from the horrors of war I believe that young man or woman should receive support and care and maybe an opportunity to serve in a peaceful roll.

    And while we're on that subject, why do we so seldom hear about giving support to peacekeepers? Why is it always about the warriors? What about those who put their lives on the line for peace? I want to hear more about that.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
    Democracy Dies in Darkness- Washington Post













  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    brianlux wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    Actually, I think you're assuming where everyone's drive is coming from. How can you know someone else's true intent?

    Of course one of the motives is to feel better about oneself; it's natural - as with charity, for instance: The act of giving makes me feel wonderful, but that feeling is a by-product of the act and not necessarily the cause of action itself.

    That feel-good deal (using your term, as I find it odd to apply it to the battlefield) isn't THE motive, and it discounts - to me, anyway - the courage and yes, nobleness as well, of willing to put your life on the line to protect that of others.

    You know, I'm always a bit hesitant to disagree with you, hedonist, because I suspect you're smarter than I am, but I seriously doubt the motivation of the average enlistee is courage, nobleness, bravery and so forth. I suspect the motivations more often than not include uncertainty regarding career choice, education and training benefits, a means to legally act out violence, and bravado (which is not the same as bravery). Also, I don't believe most military actions taken by the industrialized nations are carried out with the intention to protect others or for defensive purposes.

    So, like I said, I don't support war or military enlistment. If a young person makes the choice to enlist and comes back from the horrors of war I believe that young man or woman should receive support and care and maybe an opportunity to serve in a peaceful roll.

    And while we're on that subject, why do we so seldom hear about giving support to peacekeepers? Why is it always about the warriors? What about those who put their lives on the line for peace? I want to hear more about that.
    Brian, I'm no smarter than the average bear ;)

    Please feel free to continue to speak your mind with me; that goes with everyone here.

    Sure there are many reasons one would enlist and the ones you described are valid - they exist. I just feel it's unfair to apply them to most. Also, I suppose I was looking more toward the "older warriors" like my dad. I'm fairly certain some of his motivation was to kick some ass, but the intent behind it?

    Good by me.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    there is no such thing as necessary war ... saying there is - is a kin to saying we can solve domestic issues with violence or property disputes with violence ...
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    polaris_x wrote:
    there is no such thing as necessary war ... saying there is - is a kin to saying we can solve domestic issues with violence or property disputes with violence ...

    No! So how about when a madman like Hitler when he rises to power? How would you have propose to stop him?
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    lukin2006 wrote:
    No! So how about when a madman like Hitler when he rises to power? How would you have propose to stop him?

    it's different times ... we have an international criminal court ... nearly every country is a signatory to it ... we have international organizations now to settle trade disputes and what not ...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,087
    hedonist wrote:
    brianlux wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    Actually, I think you're assuming where everyone's drive is coming from. How can you know someone else's true intent?

    Of course one of the motives is to feel better about oneself; it's natural - as with charity, for instance: The act of giving makes me feel wonderful, but that feeling is a by-product of the act and not necessarily the cause of action itself.

    That feel-good deal (using your term, as I find it odd to apply it to the battlefield) isn't THE motive, and it discounts - to me, anyway - the courage and yes, nobleness as well, of willing to put your life on the line to protect that of others.

    You know, I'm always a bit hesitant to disagree with you, hedonist, because I suspect you're smarter than I am, but I seriously doubt the motivation of the average enlistee is courage, nobleness, bravery and so forth. I suspect the motivations more often than not include uncertainty regarding career choice, education and training benefits, a means to legally act out violence, and bravado (which is not the same as bravery). Also, I don't believe most military actions taken by the industrialized nations are carried out with the intention to protect others or for defensive purposes.

    So, like I said, I don't support war or military enlistment. If a young person makes the choice to enlist and comes back from the horrors of war I believe that young man or woman should receive support and care and maybe an opportunity to serve in a peaceful roll.

    And while we're on that subject, why do we so seldom hear about giving support to peacekeepers? Why is it always about the warriors? What about those who put their lives on the line for peace? I want to hear more about that.
    Brian, I'm no smarter than the average bear ;)

    Please feel free to continue to speak your mind with me; that goes with everyone here.

    Sure there are many reasons one would enlist and the ones you described are valid - they exist. I just feel it's unfair to apply them to most. Also, I suppose I was looking more toward the "older warriors" like my dad. I'm fairly certain some of his motivation was to kick some ass, but the intent behind it?

    Good by me.

    My dad was in the Navy during World War II. He served in the Soloman Islands as an aircraft mechanic. He didn't engage in actual but was there to fight in a war but I don't think those guys had all the information we have today about what goes on behind the scenes. For example, I don't think he knew that some of Hitler's wealth and power came from us- we enabled that crazy bastard. So yes, I do think the intent of warriors back then was different but I don't think the intent of the war itself was as black and white as our class-room history books would have us believe.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
    Democracy Dies in Darkness- Washington Post













  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    polaris_x wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:
    No! So how about when a madman like Hitler when he rises to power? How would you have propose to stop him?

    it's different times ... we have an international criminal court ... nearly every country is a signatory to it ... we have international organizations now to settle trade disputes and what not ...

    Do you think Hitler would have used those process's?
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Do you think Hitler would have used those process's?

    frig ... why not bring in genghis khan and stalin at the same time!? ...

    like i said - we live in different times ...
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    polaris_x wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Do you think Hitler would have used those process's?

    frig ... why not bring in genghis khan and stalin at the same time!? ...

    like i said - we live in different times ...

    no we don't ... seems to me just as many evil people in the world today as then ... and some of them are even in control of countries ... may be a different year still the same old shit, on maybe a smaller scale. I certainly think its possible another crazy can rise to power with the similar intentions as Hitler or some of the past madmen ... somehow I don't think these madmen much care about international courts.

    You said "there is no such thing as necessary war ... you never said today there should be no such thing as war". And as far as I'm concerned as long as people continue to live on this earth there all always be wars, and probably someday there will be WW3 ... humans are evil on a much larger scale than most want to admit.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • riotgrlriotgrl LOUISVILLE Posts: 1,895
    lukin2006 wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:
    No! So how about when a madman like Hitler when he rises to power? How would you have propose to stop him?

    it's different times ... we have an international criminal court ... nearly every country is a signatory to it ... we have international organizations now to settle trade disputes and what not ...

    Do you think Hitler would have used those process's?

    There were many opportunities that could have been taken to stop Hitler before it became all out world war. The choice was not to take those actions.
    Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?

    Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...

    I AM MINE
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    riotgrl wrote:

    There were many opportunities that could have been taken to stop Hitler before it became all out world war. The choice was not to take those actions.

    There might have been some opportunities ... but I would say by how advance their military machinery was and by how big it was ... would suggest a peaceful outcome was unlikely.

    I guess we could go back to the end of WW1 and maybe the treaty Germany signed lead to the rise of Hitler. Unfortunately the world is loaded with crazies and some even control countries.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    lukin2006 wrote:
    no we don't ... seems to me just as many evil people in the world today as then ... and some of them are even in control of countries ... may be a different year still the same old shit, on maybe a smaller scale. I certainly think its possible another crazy can rise to power with the similar intentions as Hitler or some of the past madmen ... somehow I don't think these madmen much care about international courts.

    You said "there is no such thing as necessary war ... you never said today there should be no such thing as war". And as far as I'm concerned as long as people continue to live on this earth there all always be wars, and probably someday there will be WW3 ... humans are evil on a much larger scale than most want to admit.

    you're right in that there is definitely evil ... but evil comes in many forms and the notion that they are these adolf hitlers waiting in the wings doesn't take into consideration the world we currently live in ... heck - one of the key drivers associated with the arab spring was an online community of hackers ... information is more widely available now then before ... nation states are reliant on corporations and other countries for survival ... you simply just can't invade another country these days ...
  • Staceb10Staceb10 Posts: 675
    Attaway77 wrote:
    "And deciding being a soldier is something I can not imagine coming from a sane mind and soul. And then I should feel sorry for their trauma? Well, apparently, the government gives a shit about their trauma. That is another problem, I see that. But on the other hand: You went to war for your country? Well, then deal with the consequences!"

    What a shit thing to say.....


    I completely agree. I'd rather my tax money go to help soliders than give deadbeats free cell phones. And I know with all the peace, love and happiness over here (won't even fight to protect your own family???) I'm sure this comment will get me blasted (or banned) but as the mother of someone in the Middle East right now protecting the OP's right to be voice his opinion, I hope a veteran catches you in a dark alley one night.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Staceb10 wrote:
    I completely agree. I'd rather my tax money go to help soliders than give deadbeats free cell phones. And I know with all the peace, love and happiness over here (won't even fight to protect your own family???) I'm sure this comment will get me blasted (or banned) but as the mother of someone in the Middle East right now protecting the OP's right to be voice his opinion, I hope a veteran catches you in a dark alley one night.

    do you really think your son is there to fight for freedom?
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