Israel/Gaza

EdsonNascimento

PhillyCrownOfThorns wrote:

How has the media accounted for the 6 Gazans killed for "treason" yesterday? I honestly don't know...

Solid Governance...

It's interesting... why wouldn't Hamas hold them captive? The going rate is 1 Israeli soldier for a thousand "political prisoners"

And today's bombing on a civilian bus in the streets of Tel Aviv.

"Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri praised the bombing, but stopped short of claiming responsibility."

You praise the bombing of a civilian bus?

PhillyCrownOfThorns

[quote=
i mean OPEN help....like the one USA gives to Israel...and isnt the same with Christians..
cos let me tell u..Jewish are more traditional and believe more stronge than Christians these days..
Israel is there ..was put there..and one obf ther reasons is that they are stroge belivers in their religion...trust me on this..[/quote]

Dimi:

Israel was put there for its religion. I would agree. However, the 21st century Israeli cannot be identified as your typical Orthodox jew wearing a black hat. Only 25% of Jews in the country actually observe the Sabbath and only a fraction more really have any understanding of the religion.

Jews are proud to be Jewish... But prouder to have one place on Earth that they can call home.

JC29856

Scoreboard
Israel 141 - Palestinians 7

Soon Israel will give the "wink and nod" to its Bitchboy Nation and Sec Clinton will accept congratulations on brokering the ceasefire truce

dimitrispearljam

PhillyCrownOfThorns wrote:

Dimi:

Israel was put there for its religion. I would agree. However, the 21st century Israeli cannot be identified as your typical Orthodox jew wearing a black hat. Only 25% of Jews in the country actually observe the Sabbath and only a fraction more really have any understanding of the religion.

Jews are proud to be Jewish... But prouder to have one place on Earth that they can call home.

i understand your point..sure..they want to have a place called home..the problem is that there was someone else home already..

polaris_x

JC29856 wrote:

Scoreboard
Israel 141 - Palestinians 7

Soon Israel will give the "wink and nod" to its Bitchboy Nation and Sec Clinton will accept congratulations on brokering the ceasefire truce

it's become abundantly clear that the biggest hope for palestinians will be from jews and israelis ... only they can deliver them peace and justice ... no one else ...

JC29856

help
i keep reading that "hamas wont recognize israels right to exist" and it seems kinda vague...i cant find what this refers to...anyone? what does this mean? were is this stated
thxs

supersonicyears

Byrnzie wrote:

Wow, what a surprise!And Americans wonder why they're hated around the World? Maybe you should look to your government's foreign policy for the answer to that one.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/no ... srael-gaza

US gives 'full backing' to Israel

The Israeli ambassador to Washington, Michael Oren[...] "The United States has given us the full backing to take whatever measures are necessary to defend our citizens from Hamas terror," he said. "Israel has received unequivocal and outstanding support from the United States and all branches of government. From the White House, from Congress, in both parties, completely bipartisan support."

...The Israeli ambassador has been leading a PR drive in Washington to cast Israel as the innocent victim of indiscriminate terror attacks, a claim strongly challenged by Palestinians who accuse Binyamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, of engineering the conflict as a political strategy in the run-up to January's general election.

...The Palestinian delegation to the US accused Washington of taking Israel's side.

"The United States response is at best biased and weak because it completely ignored the fact that Israel started the escalation. The US has a moral obligation to ask Israel not to deploy its US-made weapons to kill and injure civilians. The US is also expected to tell Israel that there is no military solution to the conflict. The only way to achieve peace is to uproot the cause of its absence: Israel's military occupation of Palestine," it said. "It is shameful that certain countries are justifying the murder of Palestinian civilians. It is time for all to understand that Palestinian lives are as precious as any others in the region and around the world. The political complicity must end and Israel must be held accountable."

How do you not acknowledge that the Palestinians have made many attacks on Israeli citizens for years? When will you be packing up and moving from the place that you're occupying?

polaris_x

[Personal comments removed by Admin. Discuss the topic and not other members discussing the topic. ]

EdsonNascimento

Cease fire!!!

Obama gets props from Netenyahu!

Hillary gets face time!!

Egypts new regime gets kudos!!

But the truce actually doesn't move anything forward (though thankfully stops the fighting for now). Israel agreed to stop assassinating top Hamas officials and to ease the restrictions on crossings.

Why does this not move anything forward? Israel was already in the process of easing the restrictions before this all started, and there are no time tables nor specifics on what this actually means. So, all Hamas accomplished was protecting their own inner circle, nothing for their citizens.

They start bombing Israel causing Israel to retaliate and kill a couple of their top operatives, and all they get out of it is Israel saying they will continue to do what they were already doing. So, Hamas created the fighting that killed numerous civilians and accomplished - nothing!!!! That's what terrorists do.

Props all around.

Zoso

does anyone else think this Israel threat to invade the gaza strip is a prelude to their invasion of Iran?

dimitrispearljam

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Cease fire!!!

Obama gets props from Netenyahu!

Hillary gets face time!!

Egypts new regime gets kudos!!

But the truce actually doesn't move anything forward (though thankfully stops the fighting for now). Israel agreed to stop assassinating top Hamas officials and to ease the restrictions on crossings.

Why does this not move anything forward? Israel was already in the process of easing the restrictions before this all started, and there are no time tables nor specifics on what this actually means. So, all Hamas accomplished was protecting their own inner circle, nothing for their citizens.

They start bombing Israel causing Israel to retaliate and kill a couple of their top operatives, and all they get out of it is Israel saying they will continue to do what they were already doing. So, Hamas created the fighting that killed numerous civilians and accomplished - nothing!!!! That's what terrorists do.

Props all around.

we have a great moto-expresion for all this in Greece..

"Theatre of the Absurd"

thats exactly happening down there...

JC29856

Im also seeing alot of "Islamist Hamas" in articles....what is Islamist Hamas? Are they different then Hamas?

Drowned Out

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Cease fire!!!

Obama gets props from Netenyahu!

Hillary gets face time!!

Egypts new regime gets kudos!!

But the truce actually doesn't move anything forward (though thankfully stops the fighting for now). Israel agreed to stop assassinating top Hamas officials and to ease the restrictions on crossings.

Why does this not move anything forward? Israel was already in the process of easing the restrictions before this all started, and there are no time tables nor specifics on what this actually means. So, all Hamas accomplished was protecting their own inner circle, nothing for their citizens.

They start bombing Israel causing Israel to retaliate and kill a couple of their top operatives, and all they get out of it is Israel saying they will continue to do what they were already doing. So, Hamas created the fighting that killed numerous civilians and accomplished - nothing!!!! That's what terrorists do.

Props all around.

Another round of finger pointing, hmm? ok...
In case you didn't read the article on page one of this thread:

Furthermore, articles that do mention the Palestinian casualties in Gaza consistently report that Israeli operations are in response to rockets from Gaza and to the injuring of Israeli soldiers. However, the chronology of events of the recent flare-up began on November 5, when an innocent, apparently mentally unfit, 20-year old man, Ahmad al-Nabaheen, was shot when he wandered close to the border. Medics had to wait for six hours to be permitted to pick him up and they suspect that he may have died because of that delay. Then, on November 8, a 13-year old boy playing football in front of his house was killed by fire from the IOF that had moved into Gazan territory with tanks as well as helicopters. The wounding of four Israeli soldiers at the border on November 10 was therefore already part of a chain of events where Gazan civilians had been killed, and not the triggering event.

EdsonNascimento

Drowned Out wrote:

Another round of finger pointing, hmm? ok...
In case you didn't read the article on page one of this thread:

Furthermore, articles that do mention the Palestinian casualties in Gaza consistently report that Israeli operations are in response to rockets from Gaza and to the injuring of Israeli soldiers. However, the chronology of events of the recent flare-up began on November 5, when an innocent, apparently mentally unfit, 20-year old man, Ahmad al-Nabaheen, was shot when he wandered close to the border. Medics had to wait for six hours to be permitted to pick him up and they suspect that he may have died because of that delay. Then, on November 8, a 13-year old boy playing football in front of his house was killed by fire from the IOF that had moved into Gazan territory with tanks as well as helicopters. The wounding of four Israeli soldiers at the border on November 10 was therefore already part of a chain of events where Gazan civilians had been killed, and not the triggering event.

I'm not going to respond to a slanted article. But, if you want to daisy chain individual deaths that led up to this, you are going to have to go back MUCH further than that. Unfortunately, examples given are not isolated nor new. The fact remains that the bombs flown by Hamas on civilian areas of Israel is the DIRECT cause of the most recent escalation.

dimitrispearljam

JC29856 wrote:

Im also seeing alot of "Islamist Hamas" in articles....what is Islamist Hamas? Are they different then Hamas?

if im not wrong i think is the name Israel call them..

EdsonNascimento

Zoso wrote:

does anyone else think this Israel threat to invade the gaza strip is a prelude to their invasion of Iran?

No. That would require clear US approval. It's one thing to defend themselves (they did not invade, so that is a misnomer on your part. They have simply responded to fire with fire. If you want to talk about occupation, or whatever, I'll still disagree, but have at it. But, in this case they did not INVADE), against an entity that the US aknowledges as a terrorist organization. It's quite another to invade another independent country without direct provocation.

Drowned Out

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

Another round of finger pointing, hmm? ok...
In case you didn't read the article on page one of this thread:

Furthermore, articles that do mention the Palestinian casualties in Gaza consistently report that Israeli operations are in response to rockets from Gaza and to the injuring of Israeli soldiers. However, the chronology of events of the recent flare-up began on November 5, when an innocent, apparently mentally unfit, 20-year old man, Ahmad al-Nabaheen, was shot when he wandered close to the border. Medics had to wait for six hours to be permitted to pick him up and they suspect that he may have died because of that delay. Then, on November 8, a 13-year old boy playing football in front of his house was killed by fire from the IOF that had moved into Gazan territory with tanks as well as helicopters. The wounding of four Israeli soldiers at the border on November 10 was therefore already part of a chain of events where Gazan civilians had been killed, and not the triggering event.

I'm not going to respond to a slanted article. But, if you want to daisy chain individual deaths that led up to this, you are going to have to go back MUCH further than that. Unfortunately, examples given are not isolated nor new. The fact remains that the bombs flown by Hamas on civilian areas of Israel is the DIRECT cause of the most recent escalation.

Sounds like you responded to it....by denying that it's true....but not substantiating your claim.
Which bombs flown by Hamas, on which day, were the direct cause of the most recent escalations?

PhillyCrownOfThorns

Drowned Out wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

Another round of finger pointing, hmm? ok...
In case you didn't read the article on page one of this thread:

Furthermore, articles that do mention the Palestinian casualties in Gaza consistently report that Israeli operations are in response to rockets from Gaza and to the injuring of Israeli soldiers. However, the chronology of events of the recent flare-up began on November 5, when an innocent, apparently mentally unfit, 20-year old man, Ahmad al-Nabaheen, was shot when he wandered close to the border. Medics had to wait for six hours to be permitted to pick him up and they suspect that he may have died because of that delay. Then, on November 8, a 13-year old boy playing football in front of his house was killed by fire from the IOF that had moved into Gazan territory with tanks as well as helicopters. The wounding of four Israeli soldiers at the border on November 10 was therefore already part of a chain of events where Gazan civilians had been killed, and not the triggering event.

I'm not going to respond to a slanted article. But, if you want to daisy chain individual deaths that led up to this, you are going to have to go back MUCH further than that. Unfortunately, examples given are not isolated nor new. The fact remains that the bombs flown by Hamas on civilian areas of Israel is the DIRECT cause of the most recent escalation.

Sounds like you responded to it....by denying that it's true....but not substantiating your claim.
Which bombs flown by Hamas, on which day, were the direct cause of the most recent escalations?

This is from the article about the cease from CNN...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/21/world/mea ... ?hpt=hp_t1

"How this conflict reignited
A rocket alarm howled in the Israeli city of Ashkelon shortly after 7:30 a.m. Wednesday, just minutes after Hamas' TV broadcaster al-Aqsa reported its militants' rockets striking there as well as in the towns of Sderot and Ashdod. CNN's Fred Pleitgen in Ashkelon heard two impacts but could not say if the rockets hit anything.
All told, militants had fired 62 rockets from Gaza as of Wednesday afternoon, with 42 landing in Israel, according to the IDF. The Israeli military's Iron Dome defense system intercepted the other 20, the IDF said."

It is enough of the pointing fingers. Peace can be reached. But if Hamas wants to continue to launch rockets in Sderot, Ashkelon, and Ashdod at Israeli citizens (not military), their people will continue to be put in harms way.

Spotlight is on! There can be middle ground reached where a 2 state system can function. We will see!

EdsonNascimento

Drowned Out wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

Another round of finger pointing, hmm? ok...
In case you didn't read the article on page one of this thread:

Furthermore, articles that do mention the Palestinian casualties in Gaza consistently report that Israeli operations are in response to rockets from Gaza and to the injuring of Israeli soldiers. However, the chronology of events of the recent flare-up began on November 5, when an innocent, apparently mentally unfit, 20-year old man, Ahmad al-Nabaheen, was shot when he wandered close to the border. Medics had to wait for six hours to be permitted to pick him up and they suspect that he may have died because of that delay. Then, on November 8, a 13-year old boy playing football in front of his house was killed by fire from the IOF that had moved into Gazan territory with tanks as well as helicopters. The wounding of four Israeli soldiers at the border on November 10 was therefore already part of a chain of events where Gazan civilians had been killed, and not the triggering event.

I'm not going to respond to a slanted article. But, if you want to daisy chain individual deaths that led up to this, you are going to have to go back MUCH further than that. Unfortunately, examples given are not isolated nor new. The fact remains that the bombs flown by Hamas on civilian areas of Israel is the DIRECT cause of the most recent escalation.

Sounds like you responded to it....by denying that it's true....but not substantiating your claim.
Which bombs flown by Hamas, on which day, were the direct cause of the most recent escalations?

Nov 11, 100 rockets sent to civilian areas of Israel. Poor aim and good defense limits the casualties. However, if you want to daisy chain back, Hamas has been bombing Israel pretty much daily for the last 7 years since Israel left the Gaza strip.

EDIT: CoT seems to have found a more precise count of this attack, so I'll admit to exaggerating. 62 not 100. Sorry.

Drowned Out

Ok, I'll delete another couple of lines and highlight some stuff to see if you'll actually read it this time:

However, the chronology of events of the recent flare-up began on November 5, when an innocent, apparently mentally unfit, 20-year old man, Ahmad al-Nabaheen, was shot when he wandered close to the border. Medics had to wait for six hours to be permitted to pick him up and they suspect that he may have died because of that delay. Then, on November 8, a 13-year old boy playing football in front of his house was killed by fire from the IOF that had moved into Gazan territory with tanks as well as helicopters. The wounding of four Israeli soldiers at the border on November 10 was therefore already part of a chain of events where Gazan civilians had been killed, and not the triggering event.



The November 11 rocket attacks were retaliation for the IDF killing a child at play from a helicopter.