Indeed the mainstream media here in America (Fox, CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC) is biased in favor of Israel. I really try to consider both sides... It doesn't mean I don't realize that this conflict was started by the creation of Israel... but that was a previous generation, one that had just endured the Holocaust. I think the situation is more complex than some would like to make it. It's rooted in the complexity of human emotion.
I have to say that I have no sympathy for any religious claim to land. Some Jews believe they are entitled to the land because their ancient holy book says their god gave it to them... and some Christians back up that claim... well, I'm sorry, but that claim is absolute nonsense. It's bad enough that people continue to believe in such fantasies, but when these myths turn into war over land, it is a intolerable tragedy.
David Ben Gurion said himself that he didn't blame the Arabs for attacking them. His exact words were "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" So the State of Israel at its very creation assumed that their citizens would be killed as a result of Arab retaliation, but it was still worth it, because they believe so strongly that the land belongs to them.
Muslims will never willingly give up the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, as it is very sacred to them, but it happens to sit on top of the holiest site in Judaism, the Temple Mount. So the heart of this conflict is ancient mythology that modern people still believe is the truth. Eventually people will realize they have been fighting over nothing, but sadly, war will rage on for some time to come.
I imagine that if I were born an Israeli, I would fight for my country too. Same thing if I were born a Palestinian... I would join Hamas. I wouldn't have the luxury to see this conflict from the outside. So I sympathize with both sides, because I understand that people are naturally bonded to their homelands. I don't know if there's anything that can be done to stop them from retaliating against each other except to help make them understand that their cultures are unnatural constructs founded in religion. But Jesus Christ, that would sound ridiculous to them. It would sound ridiculous to me too. But it's not fucking ridiculous. Religion is fucking ridiculous. War is fucking ridiculous. But there's no fucking end to it, is there?
I have sympathy for how dumb people are, but not for the dumb things people believe in, if that makes any fucking sense. I am a dumbass just like everyone else. But I wasn't brainwashed at a young age. It's hard to shake off religion if you're taught to believe in it very intensely when you are young... that's my understanding of how religion works.
President O-bomb-a the nobel peace winning president says "israel has every right to defend itself from missile attacks"
fiscal cliffnotes:
As the single largest expense of the 2010 foreign aid budget, President Obama approved $2.775 billion in military aid to Israel, the first payment in a decade-long commitment that will reach at least $30 billion.
Last year, Israel’s military budget amounted to $13.3 billion, so the US funding is a significant portion of their overall expenditure. The US formerly provided both military and civilian aid, but it has since been folded entirely into military aid, at Israel’s request.
The money is not a blank check, however. The US requires that Israel spend at least 75% of the money given in military aid with US military contractors, effectively using the foreign aid budget to subsidize domestic weapon-makers.
In addition to military aid, the US also provides $3.148 billion in loan guarantees to Israel, part of a Treasury Department program aimed at keep Israel’s debt manageable. Ironically, though the US budget is spiraling out of control and America’s own debt continues to rise, there was no serious debate of reducing aid to Israel.
The budget also pledges $500 million in American aid to the Fatah Party’s Palestinian Authority. This aid is contingent on certain requirements, including that the group recognize Israel. This funding is distinct from any funding the CIA may give the Palestinian Authority’s security forces, which would be secret.
The one 2008 campaign promise O-bomb-a did keep....
During the 2008 presidential campaign, Barack Obama promised to "implement a Memorandum of Understanding that provides $30 billion in assistance to Israel over the next decade -- investments to Israel's security that will not be tied to any other nation."
In August 2007, the Bush administration signed a "memorandum of understanding" that outlined a 10-year framework for U.S. military assistance to Israel, according to the Congressional Research Service. It calls for incremental yearly increases in foreign military financing to Israel, with $3 billion allocated by fiscal year 2011.
Funding under the memorandum "has been fully provided in the prior fiscal years and in 2012 appropriations,” said Jeremy Ben-Ami, executive director of J Street, a liberal group active on issued related to Israel.
Specifically, Congress approved $3.075 billion in security assistance for Israel as part of a larger spending package for fiscal year 2012, according to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. That marks the fourth consecutive year the memorandum"s terms have been met, AIPAC said.
It"s premature to say that the succeeding six years of the memorandum"s terms will be met. But so far, Obama has followed the lead of President George W. Bush and stuck to the terms of the funding agreement. As the 2012 elections approach, there"s no evidence that this is anything but a Promise Kept.
The attacks on Palestine are criminal.
Acting like bullies because the US government is on their side.
so according to you, Obama has sold his soul to the biggest bidder? What do you think of Obama for this and his latest defense of Israel?
I'll answer this. I think Obama's stance towards Israel - giving those war-mongering bastards free reign to build illegal Jewish-only settlements, and free reign to humiliate and slaughter the Palestinians at will - is despicable.
But things would have been worse under Romney, and not just for the Palestinians.
obama's position on these atrocities is inexcusable.
here he has a chance to take a stand and be a leader and comemn israel's actions but instead he says that israel has our support of their right to defend itself by going on offense.
this is not a war, it is a massacre. i am just waiting for the white phosphorus to make it's appearance this go round...
here we have the UN actually talking about doing something and leave it to the fucking US and our permanent veto to make sure that nothing happens.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
the Israeli military is expending a great deal of effort to avoid civilian casualties, and is now much better at doing so than pretty much every other military on earth.
Gaza: four children killed in single Israeli air strike
Attack believed to be aimed at Hamas official wipes out 11 members of a single family as onslaught continues
Harriet Sherwood in Jerusalem
The Guardian, Monday 19 November 2012
At least 11 members of one family, including five women and four children, were killed when Israel bombed a house in Gaza City on Sunday as the five-day-old war claimed more civilian lives with no sign of a let-up in the intense bombardment.
The air strike flattened the home of the Dalou family in the Sheikh Radwan district of Gaza City, causing the biggest death toll in a single incident since the offensive began last Wednesday.
On Monday morning the Israeli defence force appeared to admit the family had been killed by mistake. The Haaretz website quoted the army as saying their house was either incorrectly pinpointed or a missile malfunctioned.
Elsewhere in the city early Monday an air strike levelled two houses belonging to a single family, killing two children and two adults and injuring 42 people, including children, said Gaza heath official Ashraf al-Kidra. Rescue workers were frantically searching for 12 to 15 members of the Azzam family under the rubble. Shortly afterwards, Israeli aircraft bombarded the remains of the former national security compound in Gaza City. Al-Kidra said flying shrapnel killed one child and wounded others living nearby.
After the Dalou family home was destroyed, the bodies of the children were pulled from the rubble and taken to the morgue at Shifa hospital. The dead also included an 80-year-old woman.
Ismael Haniyeh, the Hamas prime minister, described the deaths as an "ugly massacre" and the Hamas military wing, al-Qassam Brigades, said: "The massacre of the Dalou family will not pass without punishment."
Diggers at the scene of the explosion were scooping rubble from flattened buildings as rescuers tried to locate survivors.
Witnesses said there were chaotic scenes as the dead and injured were brought to the Shifa hospital, which has been on emergency footing since the start of Operation Pillar of Defence.
The bodies of four young children lay on two metal trays in the morgue, covered in dust and blood. A crowd of onlookers outside became increasingly distressed as the body of the children's mother was wheeled in, covered in blankets.
The strike was originally thought to have been aimed at a Hamas official, Mohamed Dalou.
In all, 84 Palestinians, about half of them civilians, have been killed in the five-day onslaught and 720 have been wounded. Three Israeli civilians have died from Palestinian rocket fire and dozens have been wounded.
After an overnight lull in rocket fire from Gaza, Hamas and other groups renewed their attacks on Sunday. Sirens were activated in Tel Aviv for the third day running. Israel Army Radio reported that two rockets fired at the city were shot down by Iron Dome defence system. Late night, there were reports of renewed shelling in Gaza by Israeli navel vessels.
The tactic of targeting militants' homes carries the risk of further high casualties in the densely populated areas of Gaza's main cities. Many militants have moved their families to safer areas before going into hiding themselves. The Israeli military has also expanded the scope of its targets to take in Hamas-run government offices and compounds.
Some families living near militants or government buildings are leaving their homes to move in with relatives in signs of increasing internal displacement within the small and crowded Gaza Strip.
Israel claims it is carrying out "surgical strikes" and making strenuous efforts to avoid civilian casualties. "It is our intention to avoid what is called collateral damage," Moshe Yaalon, minister for strategic affairs, told a press conference in Jerusalem. "We operate slowly, identify the target and clean the area around it," he added, referring to warnings issued via dropped leaflets and text messages to civilians to stay away from individuals and locations likely to be targeted.
"But when they use civilians as human shields, what is our choice?" he said. "If they position rockets in densely populated areas, such as mosques and schoolyards, we should not be blamed for the outcome."
The World Health Organisation warned that Gaza's medical facilities were being overwhelmed as the number of people injured in air strikes topped 400, about one-third of whom are children.
"Many of those injured have been admitted to hospitals with severe burns, injuries from collapsing buildings and head injuries," the WHO said in a statement issued in Geneva. The UN body appealed for $10m (£6.3m) in immediate international support to help them cope with the casualties.
Sunday's death toll came after a night of heavy bombardment, including repeated and intensive fire from gunboats stationed off the Gaza coast.
Two buildings housing media organisations were struck in the early hours, injuring eight Palestinian journalists including a cameraman who lost a leg.
The al-Shawa building, which includes the studios of al-Quds television, which is associated with Islamic Jihad, and the al-Shuruq building, housing Sky News, al-Arabiya news network, Dubai TV and an office of al-Aqsa TV, which is affiliated with Hamas, were hit.
In a statement, the Israeli Defence Forces said: "A communications antenna used by Hamas to carry out terror activity against the state of Israel, was ... targeted." The IDF denied that journalists were targeted.
Israel opened the Kerem Shalom crossing to Gaza briefly to allow humanitarian aid to enter and 26 patients and their families to leave for medical treatment.
If only 'cut-and-paste jockey's' like me would just piss off and stop infringing on people's personal self-serving fantasies with our inconvenient facts....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/no ... air-strike Israel claims it is carrying out "surgical strikes" and making strenuous efforts to avoid civilian casualties. "It is our intention to avoid what is called collateral damage," Moshe Yaalon, minister for strategic affairs, told a press conference in Jerusalem. "We operate slowly, identify the target and clean the area around it," he added, referring to warnings issued via dropped leaflets and text messages to civilians to stay away from individuals and locations likely to be targeted.
"But when they use civilians as human shields, what is our choice?" he said. "If they position rockets in densely populated areas, such as mosques and schoolyards, we should not be blamed for the outcome."
The same bullshit the Israeli's came out with during and after operation cast Lead. Though there was zero evidence that Palestinian resistance fighters had positioned rockets in densely populated areas, such as mosques and/or schoolyards.
Norman Finkelstein - 'Knowing Too Much' - Why The American Jewish Romance With Israel Is Coming To An End
P.116: "Indiscriminate attacks differ from direct attacks against civilians,' Israel's leading authority on International law, Yoram Dinstein, observed, in that "the attacker is not actually trying to harm the civilian population": the injury to the civilians is merely a matter of "no concern to the attacker." From the standpoint of LOIAC [Law of International Armed Conflict], there is no genuine difference between a premeditated attack against civilians (or civilian objects) and a reckless disregard of the principle of distinction: they are equally forbidden. [Yoram Dinstein - 'The Conduct of Hostilities under the law of International Armed Conflict' 2004].
so according to you, Obama has sold his soul to the biggest bidder? What do you think of Obama for this and his latest defense of Israel?
name a president of usa that was against Israel...
no bother..none..
and will never be..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
it's easy to be have sympathy to the gaza strip when you have a huge army on the verge of invasion vs a small strip of densely populated land that is getting the shit kicked out of it because of a small terror group. I see that both sides are at fault and have a lot of sympathy for both sides civilian population.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
i feel sorry for myself and the people of this nation...1) because of what our gov't continues to do in my/our name 2) that people either dont know or care (which boggles my mind, kinda similar to extreme couponing which ill never understand)
Indeed the mainstream media here in America (Fox, CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC) is biased in favor of Israel. I really try to consider both sides... It doesn't mean I don't realize that this conflict was started by the creation of Israel... but that was a previous generation, one that had just endured the Holocaust. I think the situation is more complex than some would like to make it. It's rooted in the complexity of human emotion.
I have to say that I have no sympathy for any religious claim to land. Some Jews believe they are entitled to the land because their ancient holy book says their god gave it to them... and some Christians back up that claim... well, I'm sorry, but that claim is absolute nonsense. It's bad enough that people continue to believe in such fantasies, but when these myths turn into war over land, it is a intolerable tragedy.
David Ben Gurion said himself that he didn't blame the Arabs for attacking them. His exact words were "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" So the State of Israel at its very creation assumed that their citizens would be killed as a result of Arab retaliation, but it was still worth it, because they believe so strongly that the land belongs to them.
Muslims will never willingly give up the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, as it is very sacred to them, but it happens to sit on top of the holiest site in Judaism, the Temple Mount. So the heart of this conflict is ancient mythology that modern people still believe is the truth. Eventually people will realize they have been fighting over nothing, but sadly, war will rage on for some time to come.
I imagine that if I were born an Israeli, I would fight for my country too. Same thing if I were born a Palestinian... I would join Hamas. I wouldn't have the luxury to see this conflict from the outside. So I sympathize with both sides, because I understand that people are naturally bonded to their homelands. I don't know if there's anything that can be done to stop them from retaliating against each other except to help make them understand that their cultures are unnatural constructs founded in religion. But Jesus Christ, that would sound ridiculous to them. It would sound ridiculous to me too. But it's not fucking ridiculous. Religion is fucking ridiculous. War is fucking ridiculous. But there's no fucking end to it, is there?
I have sympathy for how dumb people are, but not for the dumb things people believe in, if that makes any fucking sense. I am a dumbass just like everyone else. But I wasn't brainwashed at a young age. It's hard to shake off religion if you're taught to believe in it very intensely when you are young... that's my understanding of how religion works.
It's incredible how intolerant of a person you are, and the contradictions rampant in your writings. For instance, you say things like "I am a dumbass just like everyone else" but then condition it on "But I wasn't a brainwashed" as if you are superior to these fools who believe in utter nonsense, in your opinion. This superiority complex you have over religious peoples seems to be driven by an inferiority complex due to the vast number of religious peoples in this world, and it is very interesting to watch this dynamic play out inside you, because you seem to hate religion due to your perception that it spreads intolerance, when you happen to guilty of the very same intolerance! In fact, in my view, you spread the same sort of intolerance towards religious peoples, that some religious peoples do towards other groups. But that's not the main point I want to make here.
The main point I want to make is the fact that you seem to want to compartmentalize this conflict into a religious war, reach the clear conclusion that religion is responsible and evil, and that until it is gone, these issues will not be resolved. What is ironic is that you began the post saying how complex this situation is, but then proceeded to provide everyone with a vapid overview of why religion is to blame, a claim that is not backed up by history, and is extremely complicated to make because both sides view it so differently. This is not a religious conflict, and the early Zionists were in fact secular. This is a question of right and wrong, and seeking the truth, i.e. what really happened. The truth is an objective source. It does not cater to one side or another, and the facts are that a people went to another land and ethnically cleansed and massacred those people, and took their land to establish a state based on ethnicity and a superior race. Such actions are not inherent to religion only, and we have seen secular peoples do the same thing. I know how easy it is to simply chalk up this issue to the evils of religion, shake off our hatred and continue on with life, but the honest truth is that that is not the case. This is colonialism, human rights violations, and state oppression committed by the Zionists that falls under any universalist principles one should hold to, regardless of identity, and it is time that people look beyond the false notion that this is a 'civilizational war' or 'ethnic conflict' or 'religious war.' The world was able to move beyond the colorful pictures people were painting of South Africa and see that it was simply an issue of oppressed vs oppressive, but unfortunately the Israeli propaganda machine is in full force in the United States, and misconceptions of the roots of this conflict are rampant.
I also have a problem with the way in which you say "these people will realize they are fighting over nothing." Just because you condition your insults with random concessions (e.g. I would fight that way if I were 'like them' too) does not make it any less insulting, in fact it just shows your sense of superiority even more. Religion is far more sophisticated than you make it out to be, and the role it plays when it interacts with their identity is incredible. The position you are taking makes you nothing less than an extremist, just like anyone else who takes a position like that against other religious groups. I'm a Muslim, but it does not mean that I do not adhere to many of the principles advocated by all other religious groups, and see their wisdom for what it is. I also do not find people 'dumb' for not believing in my religion, but maybe I'm just less of a cynic and extremist than you are. Oh, wait, a religious person less extremist than kennyolav? I must be on shrooms.
There is a political ideology that calls for one group living at the expense of another not found in most other ideologies, except fascist ones, and that is Zionism, and that's what I oppose. I don't blame Judaism for the conflict, Jews had been living for centuries peacefully with Muslims, and often times Muslim lands were some of the only places where they could live peacefully due to the anti-semitism plaguing Europe. However, inserting this political sphere into Judaism through Zionism, and creating a nationalist, ethnic identity that coincides with the religious is incredibly dangerous, and that's what we are witnessing right now. On the other hand, the Palestinians have not done this.
Ultimately, if you are so interested in peace, perhaps stop pursuing your own agenda with this conflict, that is, using it just as an example of why you hate religion and moving on, and instead consider the facts on the ground, who is truly being occupied and massacred in this issue (it does not have two sides, it has one truth, one occupying force over an occupied people), and seek a solution you feel you can support. In my opinion, while your methodology is absolutely flawed, I think one like you would like the idea of one democratic state for both peoples. The Palestinians have simply been asking for their rights, to be treated equally to the Jewish citizens of Israel. Would you support that?
it's easy to be have sympathy to the gaza strip when you have a huge army on the verge of invasion vs a small strip of densely populated land that is getting the shit kicked out of it because of a small terror group. I see that both sides are at fault and have a lot of sympathy for both sides civilian population.
Why are both sides at fault? Are you assigning equal blame to occupier and occupied? People need to be made to understand that taking a so-called 'moderate position' with regards to this conflict will not be remembered well in history. People like that will be remembered as those who perpetuated and were complicit in these Zionist crimes.
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.” - Malcolm X
"In the end we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." - MLK, Jr.
facebook and twitter rumors are saying that middle eastern sources are reporting that within the next 24 hours there will be a cease fire and the blockade of gaza will be lifted. i can not link to it because facebook is blocked here at my office, but i was able to view it on my phone....
has anyone heard anything about that?
it sounds too good to be true to me, but apparently it has been reported by a credible source.
again, i am just saying what i read and at this point i would treat it as a rumor.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Indeed the mainstream media here in America (Fox, CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC) is biased in favor of Israel. I really try to consider both sides... It doesn't mean I don't realize that this conflict was started by the creation of Israel... but that was a previous generation, one that had just endured the Holocaust. I think the situation is more complex than some would like to make it. It's rooted in the complexity of human emotion.
I have to say that I have no sympathy for any religious claim to land. Some Jews believe they are entitled to the land because their ancient holy book says their god gave it to them... and some Christians back up that claim... well, I'm sorry, but that claim is absolute nonsense. It's bad enough that people continue to believe in such fantasies, but when these myths turn into war over land, it is a intolerable tragedy.
David Ben Gurion said himself that he didn't blame the Arabs for attacking them. His exact words were "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" So the State of Israel at its very creation assumed that their citizens would be killed as a result of Arab retaliation, but it was still worth it, because they believe so strongly that the land belongs to them.
Muslims will never willingly give up the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, as it is very sacred to them, but it happens to sit on top of the holiest site in Judaism, the Temple Mount. So the heart of this conflict is ancient mythology that modern people still believe is the truth. Eventually people will realize they have been fighting over nothing, but sadly, war will rage on for some time to come.
I imagine that if I were born an Israeli, I would fight for my country too. Same thing if I were born a Palestinian... I would join Hamas. I wouldn't have the luxury to see this conflict from the outside. So I sympathize with both sides, because I understand that people are naturally bonded to their homelands. I don't know if there's anything that can be done to stop them from retaliating against each other except to help make them understand that their cultures are unnatural constructs founded in religion. But Jesus Christ, that would sound ridiculous to them. It would sound ridiculous to me too. But it's not fucking ridiculous. Religion is fucking ridiculous. War is fucking ridiculous. But there's no fucking end to it, is there?
I have sympathy for how dumb people are, but not for the dumb things people believe in, if that makes any fucking sense. I am a dumbass just like everyone else. But I wasn't brainwashed at a young age. It's hard to shake off religion if you're taught to believe in it very intensely when you are young... that's my understanding of how religion works.
It's incredible how intolerant of a person you are, and the contradictions rampant in your writings. For instance, you say things like "I am a dumbass just like everyone else" but then condition it on "But I wasn't a brainwashed" as if you are superior to these fools who believe in utter nonsense, in your opinion. This superiority complex you have over religious peoples seems to be driven by an inferiority complex due to the vast number of religious peoples in this world, and it is very interesting to watch this dynamic play out inside you, because you seem to hate religion due to your perception that it spreads intolerance, when you happen to guilty of the very same intolerance! In fact, in my view, you spread the same sort of intolerance towards religious peoples, that some religious peoples do towards other groups. But that's not the main point I want to make here.
The main point I want to make is the fact that you seem to want to compartmentalize this conflict into a religious war, reach the clear conclusion that religion is responsible and evil, and that until it is gone, these issues will not be resolved. What is ironic is that you began the post saying how complex this situation is, but then proceeded to provide everyone with a vapid overview of why religion is to blame, a claim that is not backed up by history, and is extremely complicated to make because both sides view it so differently. This is not a religious conflict, and the early Zionists were in fact secular. This is a question of right and wrong, and seeking the truth, i.e. what really happened. The truth is an objective source. It does not cater to one side or another, and the facts are that a people went to another land and ethnically cleansed and massacred those people, and took their land to establish a state based on ethnicity and a superior race. Such actions are not inherent to religion only, and we have seen secular peoples do the same thing. I know how easy it is to simply chalk up this issue to the evils of religion, shake off our hatred and continue on with life, but the honest truth is that that is not the case. This is colonialism, human rights violations, and state oppression committed by the Zionists that falls under any universalist principles one should hold to, regardless of identity, and it is time that people look beyond the false notion that this is a 'civilizational war' or 'ethnic conflict' or 'religious war.' The world was able to move beyond the colorful pictures people were painting of South Africa and see that it was simply an issue of oppressed vs oppressive, but unfortunately the Israeli propaganda machine is in full force in the United States, and misconceptions of the roots of this conflict are rampant.
I also have a problem with the way in which you say "these people will realize they are fighting over nothing." Just because you condition your insults with random concessions (e.g. I would fight that way if I were 'like them' too) does not make it any less insulting, in fact it just shows your sense of superiority even more. Religion is far more sophisticated than you make it out to be, and the role it plays when it interacts with their identity is incredible. The position you are taking makes you nothing less than an extremist, just like anyone else who takes a position like that against other religious groups. I'm a Muslim, but it does not mean that I do not adhere to many of the principles advocated by all other religious groups, and see their wisdom for what it is. I also do not find people 'dumb' for not believing in my religion, but maybe I'm just less of a cynic and extremist than you are. Oh, wait, a religious person less extremist than kennyolav? I must be on shrooms.
There is a political ideology that calls for one group living at the expense of another not found in most other ideologies, except fascist ones, and that is Zionism, and that's what I oppose. I don't blame Judaism for the conflict, Jews had been living for centuries peacefully with Muslims, and often times Muslim lands were some of the only places where they could live peacefully due to the anti-semitism plaguing Europe. However, inserting this political sphere into Judaism through Zionism, and creating a nationalist, ethnic identity that coincides with the religious is incredibly dangerous, and that's what we are witnessing right now. On the other hand, the Palestinians have not done this.
Ultimately, if you are so interested in peace, perhaps stop pursuing your own agenda with this conflict, that is, using it just as an example of why you hate religion and moving on, and instead consider the facts on the ground, who is truly being occupied and massacred in this issue (it does not have two sides, it has one truth, one occupying force over an occupied people), and seek a solution you feel you can support. In my opinion, while your methodology is absolutely flawed, I think one like you would like the idea of one democratic state for both peoples. The Palestinians have simply been asking for their rights, to be treated equally to the Jewish citizens of Israel. Would you support that?
Was your username previously something like "____"? I think we've exchanged words in a similar conversation before. If it wasn't with you, never mind.
Well, I do tend to rant against religion here on AMT. And I do have a chip on my shoulder about it. My intolerance of religion is very credible. Religion is what's incredible. I am intolerant of all religions equally, and I have no choice but to think that being non-religious is a superior way of thinking, just as I assume religious people think their way of life is superior to the non-religious way of being, because otherwise, why would they choose it? You can say I have a superiority complex... that's fine... I am guilty as charged. You can not say, however, that I am guilty of participating in any religious conflict, or in the religious brainwashing of any child. What I am guilty of harms nobody.
When I see religious conflict, it makes me take my non-religious thinking and amp it up into anti-religious thinking. Certainly colonialism and land rights are part of this conflict... but I don't think it's a secular conflict when the history of it is clearly rooted in religion, and even though many Israelis and Palestinians may consider themselves more secular than religious, what divides them is rooted in their respective religions. Of course Palestinians should be equal to the Jewish citizens of Israel. But I don't see how that possible if there is such a divide between them.
I just cannot simply blame all of this on Israel just because they started it, or on the Zionists in America, Britain and elsewhere because they have supported it. I think is a human problem, and that's why I say it's more complex than Israeli colonialism. Why is Jerusalem so important? Why do very religious Jews keep building on Palestinian land? It's religious sentiment that drives this colonialism. I see it here in America. It's very religious Christians who are concerned about Israel not being overtaken by Muslims. It's like the crusades are still going on for these people, except that they now consider the Jews to be their allies. And Jewish Israelis, no matter how secular they are, must know that it's America's religiosity that enables them to get the support they desperately need from America.
I attack religion because religion is so often attacking the world I live in. It is the root of division between human populations. It divided all of Europe for centuries. Now most of Europe is secular and there is unity. There will be unity in the MIddle East when they too abandon religion.
if anyone cares... i dont think this is about religion at all. i think its about apartheid. i think some may want us to believe its about religion "they've been fighting over holy land for a 100 years"...ignorant and lazy
if anyone cares... i dont think this is about religion at all. i think its about apartheid. i think some may want us to believe its about religion "they've been fighting over holy land for a 100 years"...ignorant and lazy
it is about apartheid, as well as gaining and holding on to land and power at all costs.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
if anyone cares... i dont think this is about religion at all. i think its about apartheid. i think some may want us to believe its about religion "they've been fighting over holy land for a 100 years"...ignorant and lazy
it is about apartheid, as well as gaining and holding on to land and power at all costs.
yep. Kinda funny how bibi called for early elections and now this is happening.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
There are many sides to argue this conflict that seems to have gone on since the beginning and has no end in sight
But when I heard this it made a lot of sense to me
If the Arabs pit down their guns tomorrow there would be an everlasting peace, if the Israelis put down their guns their would be no Israel.
if anyone cares... i dont think this is about religion at all. i think its about apartheid. i think some may want us to believe its about religion "they've been fighting over holy land for a 100 years"...ignorant and lazy
What causes apartheid? What causes division?
The ethnic component is important as well, but Jews and Arabs often look alike... to say it isn't about religion at all... I don't understand that at all.
You can't say this is apartheid. It simply is not. Arabs from Gazza and the west bank are able to go anywhere in Israel. They can have jobs and work in Israel. The only thing is they must pass through a check point to make sure they are not known terrorists or have bombs strapped to their body. Those conditions are pretty reasonable. You can't argue with that.
This conflict is not about religion its not about apartheid its about one thing and one thing only...pure and simple Hate.
Israel's army is called the I.D.F it stands for Israeli Defeanse Forces. That's its only objective. The Iron Dome is for Defeanse
And it should be noted that even today Israel provides the Palestinians with goods including food medicine and materials to enable electricity. Yes the same electricity that powers the rocket launchers that sends thousands of muddled into its citys Israel also uses helicopters to drop leaflets down in the native language to warn civilians of a coming strike. They do this because Hammas stores their arsenal if weapons around civilian populations and their leaders like to live behind human shields.
Now for the first time in the conflict Israel has taken over the radio in Gazza. Why?
As anither way to communicate with the civilians to clear areas that will soon be bombed.
Think of these things before you make up your mind on who is the terrorist and who is not
One more quote from the Hammas leader after a rocket fell in Jerusalem.
Now they know there is no place safe for a zionist.
It's about hatred always has been always will be.
Remember the disengahement ? When Israel removed all of its people from the Gazza strip in return for peace.
Well it lasted a bit. But then the rockets started flying again. So Israel put up the check points. Now Hammas says they won't stop unrolled Israel stops the checkpoints
These checkpoints were only implemented because of the Rockets
And remember you can pass the checkpoints. Many Arabs do on a daily basis to get to work or whatever , but yes if you ate a terrorist or have a bomb strapped to your body you will be turned away
Israel wants peace.... But they have no partner, only a group full of hate
You can't say this is apartheid. It simply is not. Arabs from Gazza and the west bank are able to go anywhere in Israel. They can have jobs and work in Israel. The only thing is they must pass through a check point to make sure they are not known terrorists or have bombs strapped to their body. Those conditions are pretty reasonable. You can't argue with that.
This conflict is not about religion its not about apartheid its about one thing and one thing only...pure and simple Hate.
Israel's army is called the I.D.F it stands for Israeli Defeanse Forces. That's its only objective. The Iron Dome is for Defeanse
And it should be noted that even today Israel provides the Palestinians with goods including food medicine and materials to enable electricity. Yes the same electricity that powers the rocket launchers that sends thousands of muddled into its citys Israel also uses helicopters to drop leaflets down in the native language to warn civilians of a coming strike. They do this because Hammas stores their arsenal if weapons around civilian populations and their leaders like to live behind human shields.
Now for the first time in the conflict Israel has taken over the radio in Gazza. Why?
As anither way to communicate with the civilians to clear areas that will soon be bombed.
Think of these things before you make up your mind on who is the terrorist and who is not
One more quote from the Hammas leader after a rocket fell in Jerusalem.
Now they know there is no place safe for a zionist.
It's about hatred always has been always will be.
Remember the disengahement ? When Israel removed all of its people from the Gazza strip in return for peace.
Well it lasted a bit. But then the rockets started flying again. So Israel put up the check points. Now Hammas says they won't stop unrolled Israel stops the checkpoints
These checkpoints were only implemented because of the Rockets
And remember you can pass the checkpoints. Many Arabs do on a daily basis to get to work or whatever , but yes if you ate a terrorist or have a bomb strapped to your body you will be turned away
Israel wants peace.... But they have no partner, only a group full of hate
i don't know where you are getting your information, but everything you typed about palestinians being able to move freely is wrong. what about the jewish only roads? what are your thoughts on the settlements? that is the root cause of this whole situation. the settlements are illegal and israel keeps expanding them and displacing palestinians from their homes and their land. what are your thoughts on the destruction of olive groves, which has all but destroyed the palestinian economy?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Comments
take a deep breath, inhale......exhale.... and notice the "quotations"
i realize a topic as serious as this should not involve sarcasm but its my defense mechanism to those that suffer from naivety, to put it kindly
Oops, missed that . :oops:
I have to say that I have no sympathy for any religious claim to land. Some Jews believe they are entitled to the land because their ancient holy book says their god gave it to them... and some Christians back up that claim... well, I'm sorry, but that claim is absolute nonsense. It's bad enough that people continue to believe in such fantasies, but when these myths turn into war over land, it is a intolerable tragedy.
David Ben Gurion said himself that he didn't blame the Arabs for attacking them. His exact words were "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" So the State of Israel at its very creation assumed that their citizens would be killed as a result of Arab retaliation, but it was still worth it, because they believe so strongly that the land belongs to them.
Muslims will never willingly give up the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, as it is very sacred to them, but it happens to sit on top of the holiest site in Judaism, the Temple Mount. So the heart of this conflict is ancient mythology that modern people still believe is the truth. Eventually people will realize they have been fighting over nothing, but sadly, war will rage on for some time to come.
I imagine that if I were born an Israeli, I would fight for my country too. Same thing if I were born a Palestinian... I would join Hamas. I wouldn't have the luxury to see this conflict from the outside. So I sympathize with both sides, because I understand that people are naturally bonded to their homelands. I don't know if there's anything that can be done to stop them from retaliating against each other except to help make them understand that their cultures are unnatural constructs founded in religion. But Jesus Christ, that would sound ridiculous to them. It would sound ridiculous to me too. But it's not fucking ridiculous. Religion is fucking ridiculous. War is fucking ridiculous. But there's no fucking end to it, is there?
fiscal cliffnotes:
As the single largest expense of the 2010 foreign aid budget, President Obama approved $2.775 billion in military aid to Israel, the first payment in a decade-long commitment that will reach at least $30 billion.
Last year, Israel’s military budget amounted to $13.3 billion, so the US funding is a significant portion of their overall expenditure. The US formerly provided both military and civilian aid, but it has since been folded entirely into military aid, at Israel’s request.
The money is not a blank check, however. The US requires that Israel spend at least 75% of the money given in military aid with US military contractors, effectively using the foreign aid budget to subsidize domestic weapon-makers.
In addition to military aid, the US also provides $3.148 billion in loan guarantees to Israel, part of a Treasury Department program aimed at keep Israel’s debt manageable. Ironically, though the US budget is spiraling out of control and America’s own debt continues to rise, there was no serious debate of reducing aid to Israel.
The budget also pledges $500 million in American aid to the Fatah Party’s Palestinian Authority. This aid is contingent on certain requirements, including that the group recognize Israel. This funding is distinct from any funding the CIA may give the Palestinian Authority’s security forces, which would be secret.
During the 2008 presidential campaign, Barack Obama promised to "implement a Memorandum of Understanding that provides $30 billion in assistance to Israel over the next decade -- investments to Israel's security that will not be tied to any other nation."
In August 2007, the Bush administration signed a "memorandum of understanding" that outlined a 10-year framework for U.S. military assistance to Israel, according to the Congressional Research Service. It calls for incremental yearly increases in foreign military financing to Israel, with $3 billion allocated by fiscal year 2011.
Funding under the memorandum "has been fully provided in the prior fiscal years and in 2012 appropriations,” said Jeremy Ben-Ami, executive director of J Street, a liberal group active on issued related to Israel.
Specifically, Congress approved $3.075 billion in security assistance for Israel as part of a larger spending package for fiscal year 2012, according to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. That marks the fourth consecutive year the memorandum"s terms have been met, AIPAC said.
It"s premature to say that the succeeding six years of the memorandum"s terms will be met. But so far, Obama has followed the lead of President George W. Bush and stuck to the terms of the funding agreement. As the 2012 elections approach, there"s no evidence that this is anything but a Promise Kept.
so according to you, Obama has sold his soul to the biggest bidder? What do you think of Obama for this and his latest defense of Israel?
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
I'll answer this. I think Obama's stance towards Israel - giving those war-mongering bastards free reign to build illegal Jewish-only settlements, and free reign to humiliate and slaughter the Palestinians at will - is despicable.
But things would have been worse under Romney, and not just for the Palestinians.
The IDF aren't fighting for their country. The Occupied territories don't constitute Israel's country.
here he has a chance to take a stand and be a leader and comemn israel's actions but instead he says that israel has our support of their right to defend itself by going on offense.
this is not a war, it is a massacre. i am just waiting for the white phosphorus to make it's appearance this go round...
here we have the UN actually talking about doing something and leave it to the fucking US and our permanent veto to make sure that nothing happens.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Of course it is:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/no ... air-strike
Gaza: four children killed in single Israeli air strike
Attack believed to be aimed at Hamas official wipes out 11 members of a single family as onslaught continues
Harriet Sherwood in Jerusalem
The Guardian, Monday 19 November 2012
At least 11 members of one family, including five women and four children, were killed when Israel bombed a house in Gaza City on Sunday as the five-day-old war claimed more civilian lives with no sign of a let-up in the intense bombardment.
The air strike flattened the home of the Dalou family in the Sheikh Radwan district of Gaza City, causing the biggest death toll in a single incident since the offensive began last Wednesday.
On Monday morning the Israeli defence force appeared to admit the family had been killed by mistake. The Haaretz website quoted the army as saying their house was either incorrectly pinpointed or a missile malfunctioned.
Elsewhere in the city early Monday an air strike levelled two houses belonging to a single family, killing two children and two adults and injuring 42 people, including children, said Gaza heath official Ashraf al-Kidra. Rescue workers were frantically searching for 12 to 15 members of the Azzam family under the rubble. Shortly afterwards, Israeli aircraft bombarded the remains of the former national security compound in Gaza City. Al-Kidra said flying shrapnel killed one child and wounded others living nearby.
After the Dalou family home was destroyed, the bodies of the children were pulled from the rubble and taken to the morgue at Shifa hospital. The dead also included an 80-year-old woman.
Ismael Haniyeh, the Hamas prime minister, described the deaths as an "ugly massacre" and the Hamas military wing, al-Qassam Brigades, said: "The massacre of the Dalou family will not pass without punishment."
Diggers at the scene of the explosion were scooping rubble from flattened buildings as rescuers tried to locate survivors.
Witnesses said there were chaotic scenes as the dead and injured were brought to the Shifa hospital, which has been on emergency footing since the start of Operation Pillar of Defence.
The bodies of four young children lay on two metal trays in the morgue, covered in dust and blood. A crowd of onlookers outside became increasingly distressed as the body of the children's mother was wheeled in, covered in blankets.
The strike was originally thought to have been aimed at a Hamas official, Mohamed Dalou.
In all, 84 Palestinians, about half of them civilians, have been killed in the five-day onslaught and 720 have been wounded. Three Israeli civilians have died from Palestinian rocket fire and dozens have been wounded.
After an overnight lull in rocket fire from Gaza, Hamas and other groups renewed their attacks on Sunday. Sirens were activated in Tel Aviv for the third day running. Israel Army Radio reported that two rockets fired at the city were shot down by Iron Dome defence system. Late night, there were reports of renewed shelling in Gaza by Israeli navel vessels.
The tactic of targeting militants' homes carries the risk of further high casualties in the densely populated areas of Gaza's main cities. Many militants have moved their families to safer areas before going into hiding themselves. The Israeli military has also expanded the scope of its targets to take in Hamas-run government offices and compounds.
Some families living near militants or government buildings are leaving their homes to move in with relatives in signs of increasing internal displacement within the small and crowded Gaza Strip.
Israel claims it is carrying out "surgical strikes" and making strenuous efforts to avoid civilian casualties. "It is our intention to avoid what is called collateral damage," Moshe Yaalon, minister for strategic affairs, told a press conference in Jerusalem. "We operate slowly, identify the target and clean the area around it," he added, referring to warnings issued via dropped leaflets and text messages to civilians to stay away from individuals and locations likely to be targeted.
"But when they use civilians as human shields, what is our choice?" he said. "If they position rockets in densely populated areas, such as mosques and schoolyards, we should not be blamed for the outcome."
The World Health Organisation warned that Gaza's medical facilities were being overwhelmed as the number of people injured in air strikes topped 400, about one-third of whom are children.
"Many of those injured have been admitted to hospitals with severe burns, injuries from collapsing buildings and head injuries," the WHO said in a statement issued in Geneva. The UN body appealed for $10m (£6.3m) in immediate international support to help them cope with the casualties.
Sunday's death toll came after a night of heavy bombardment, including repeated and intensive fire from gunboats stationed off the Gaza coast.
Two buildings housing media organisations were struck in the early hours, injuring eight Palestinian journalists including a cameraman who lost a leg.
The al-Shawa building, which includes the studios of al-Quds television, which is associated with Islamic Jihad, and the al-Shuruq building, housing Sky News, al-Arabiya news network, Dubai TV and an office of al-Aqsa TV, which is affiliated with Hamas, were hit.
In a statement, the Israeli Defence Forces said: "A communications antenna used by Hamas to carry out terror activity against the state of Israel, was ... targeted." The IDF denied that journalists were targeted.
Israel opened the Kerem Shalom crossing to Gaza briefly to allow humanitarian aid to enter and 26 patients and their families to leave for medical treatment.
Oh well, nevermind.
Israel claims it is carrying out "surgical strikes" and making strenuous efforts to avoid civilian casualties. "It is our intention to avoid what is called collateral damage," Moshe Yaalon, minister for strategic affairs, told a press conference in Jerusalem. "We operate slowly, identify the target and clean the area around it," he added, referring to warnings issued via dropped leaflets and text messages to civilians to stay away from individuals and locations likely to be targeted.
"But when they use civilians as human shields, what is our choice?" he said. "If they position rockets in densely populated areas, such as mosques and schoolyards, we should not be blamed for the outcome."
The same bullshit the Israeli's came out with during and after operation cast Lead. Though there was zero evidence that Palestinian resistance fighters had positioned rockets in densely populated areas, such as mosques and/or schoolyards.
Norman Finkelstein - 'Knowing Too Much' - Why The American Jewish Romance With Israel Is Coming To An End
P.116: "Indiscriminate attacks differ from direct attacks against civilians,' Israel's leading authority on International law, Yoram Dinstein, observed, in that "the attacker is not actually trying to harm the civilian population": the injury to the civilians is merely a matter of "no concern to the attacker." From the standpoint of LOIAC [Law of International Armed Conflict], there is no genuine difference between a premeditated attack against civilians (or civilian objects) and a reckless disregard of the principle of distinction: they are equally forbidden. [Yoram Dinstein - 'The Conduct of Hostilities under the law of International Armed Conflict' 2004].
no bother..none..
and will never be..
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
horrible
It's incredible how intolerant of a person you are, and the contradictions rampant in your writings. For instance, you say things like "I am a dumbass just like everyone else" but then condition it on "But I wasn't a brainwashed" as if you are superior to these fools who believe in utter nonsense, in your opinion. This superiority complex you have over religious peoples seems to be driven by an inferiority complex due to the vast number of religious peoples in this world, and it is very interesting to watch this dynamic play out inside you, because you seem to hate religion due to your perception that it spreads intolerance, when you happen to guilty of the very same intolerance! In fact, in my view, you spread the same sort of intolerance towards religious peoples, that some religious peoples do towards other groups. But that's not the main point I want to make here.
The main point I want to make is the fact that you seem to want to compartmentalize this conflict into a religious war, reach the clear conclusion that religion is responsible and evil, and that until it is gone, these issues will not be resolved. What is ironic is that you began the post saying how complex this situation is, but then proceeded to provide everyone with a vapid overview of why religion is to blame, a claim that is not backed up by history, and is extremely complicated to make because both sides view it so differently. This is not a religious conflict, and the early Zionists were in fact secular. This is a question of right and wrong, and seeking the truth, i.e. what really happened. The truth is an objective source. It does not cater to one side or another, and the facts are that a people went to another land and ethnically cleansed and massacred those people, and took their land to establish a state based on ethnicity and a superior race. Such actions are not inherent to religion only, and we have seen secular peoples do the same thing. I know how easy it is to simply chalk up this issue to the evils of religion, shake off our hatred and continue on with life, but the honest truth is that that is not the case. This is colonialism, human rights violations, and state oppression committed by the Zionists that falls under any universalist principles one should hold to, regardless of identity, and it is time that people look beyond the false notion that this is a 'civilizational war' or 'ethnic conflict' or 'religious war.' The world was able to move beyond the colorful pictures people were painting of South Africa and see that it was simply an issue of oppressed vs oppressive, but unfortunately the Israeli propaganda machine is in full force in the United States, and misconceptions of the roots of this conflict are rampant.
I also have a problem with the way in which you say "these people will realize they are fighting over nothing." Just because you condition your insults with random concessions (e.g. I would fight that way if I were 'like them' too) does not make it any less insulting, in fact it just shows your sense of superiority even more. Religion is far more sophisticated than you make it out to be, and the role it plays when it interacts with their identity is incredible. The position you are taking makes you nothing less than an extremist, just like anyone else who takes a position like that against other religious groups. I'm a Muslim, but it does not mean that I do not adhere to many of the principles advocated by all other religious groups, and see their wisdom for what it is. I also do not find people 'dumb' for not believing in my religion, but maybe I'm just less of a cynic and extremist than you are. Oh, wait, a religious person less extremist than kennyolav? I must be on shrooms.
There is a political ideology that calls for one group living at the expense of another not found in most other ideologies, except fascist ones, and that is Zionism, and that's what I oppose. I don't blame Judaism for the conflict, Jews had been living for centuries peacefully with Muslims, and often times Muslim lands were some of the only places where they could live peacefully due to the anti-semitism plaguing Europe. However, inserting this political sphere into Judaism through Zionism, and creating a nationalist, ethnic identity that coincides with the religious is incredibly dangerous, and that's what we are witnessing right now. On the other hand, the Palestinians have not done this.
Ultimately, if you are so interested in peace, perhaps stop pursuing your own agenda with this conflict, that is, using it just as an example of why you hate religion and moving on, and instead consider the facts on the ground, who is truly being occupied and massacred in this issue (it does not have two sides, it has one truth, one occupying force over an occupied people), and seek a solution you feel you can support. In my opinion, while your methodology is absolutely flawed, I think one like you would like the idea of one democratic state for both peoples. The Palestinians have simply been asking for their rights, to be treated equally to the Jewish citizens of Israel. Would you support that?
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.” - Malcolm X
"In the end we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." - MLK, Jr.
msnbc.com, or whatever it is called now, is showing live streaming footage of burning buildings in gaza.
we are witnessing a crime here. and nobody is doing anything to stop it.
how can anyone in power in any nato country sit idly by and allow this to be happening?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I had this same thought.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
has anyone heard anything about that?
it sounds too good to be true to me, but apparently it has been reported by a credible source.
again, i am just saying what i read and at this point i would treat it as a rumor.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Was your username previously something like "____"? I think we've exchanged words in a similar conversation before. If it wasn't with you, never mind.
Well, I do tend to rant against religion here on AMT. And I do have a chip on my shoulder about it. My intolerance of religion is very credible. Religion is what's incredible. I am intolerant of all religions equally, and I have no choice but to think that being non-religious is a superior way of thinking, just as I assume religious people think their way of life is superior to the non-religious way of being, because otherwise, why would they choose it? You can say I have a superiority complex... that's fine... I am guilty as charged. You can not say, however, that I am guilty of participating in any religious conflict, or in the religious brainwashing of any child. What I am guilty of harms nobody.
When I see religious conflict, it makes me take my non-religious thinking and amp it up into anti-religious thinking. Certainly colonialism and land rights are part of this conflict... but I don't think it's a secular conflict when the history of it is clearly rooted in religion, and even though many Israelis and Palestinians may consider themselves more secular than religious, what divides them is rooted in their respective religions. Of course Palestinians should be equal to the Jewish citizens of Israel. But I don't see how that possible if there is such a divide between them.
I just cannot simply blame all of this on Israel just because they started it, or on the Zionists in America, Britain and elsewhere because they have supported it. I think is a human problem, and that's why I say it's more complex than Israeli colonialism. Why is Jerusalem so important? Why do very religious Jews keep building on Palestinian land? It's religious sentiment that drives this colonialism. I see it here in America. It's very religious Christians who are concerned about Israel not being overtaken by Muslims. It's like the crusades are still going on for these people, except that they now consider the Jews to be their allies. And Jewish Israelis, no matter how secular they are, must know that it's America's religiosity that enables them to get the support they desperately need from America.
I attack religion because religion is so often attacking the world I live in. It is the root of division between human populations. It divided all of Europe for centuries. Now most of Europe is secular and there is unity. There will be unity in the MIddle East when they too abandon religion.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
But when I heard this it made a lot of sense to me
If the Arabs pit down their guns tomorrow there would be an everlasting peace, if the Israelis put down their guns their would be no Israel.
Think about that for a moment
What causes apartheid? What causes division?
The ethnic component is important as well, but Jews and Arabs often look alike... to say it isn't about religion at all... I don't understand that at all.
This conflict is not about religion its not about apartheid its about one thing and one thing only...pure and simple Hate.
Israel's army is called the I.D.F it stands for Israeli Defeanse Forces. That's its only objective. The Iron Dome is for Defeanse
And it should be noted that even today Israel provides the Palestinians with goods including food medicine and materials to enable electricity. Yes the same electricity that powers the rocket launchers that sends thousands of muddled into its citys Israel also uses helicopters to drop leaflets down in the native language to warn civilians of a coming strike. They do this because Hammas stores their arsenal if weapons around civilian populations and their leaders like to live behind human shields.
Now for the first time in the conflict Israel has taken over the radio in Gazza. Why?
As anither way to communicate with the civilians to clear areas that will soon be bombed.
Think of these things before you make up your mind on who is the terrorist and who is not
One more quote from the Hammas leader after a rocket fell in Jerusalem.
Now they know there is no place safe for a zionist.
It's about hatred always has been always will be.
Remember the disengahement ? When Israel removed all of its people from the Gazza strip in return for peace.
Well it lasted a bit. But then the rockets started flying again. So Israel put up the check points. Now Hammas says they won't stop unrolled Israel stops the checkpoints
These checkpoints were only implemented because of the Rockets
And remember you can pass the checkpoints. Many Arabs do on a daily basis to get to work or whatever , but yes if you ate a terrorist or have a bomb strapped to your body you will be turned away
Israel wants peace.... But they have no partner, only a group full of hate
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."