You know what? She's in the 1%. I think I may agree with Obama...tax the shirt off of her back!!!!
Back to Moore - one interesting thing I see is it seemed like he was squirming when called out on the 1% (by $) issue. I am surprised that he wasn;t prepared with a far better answer. He's not stupid, but in this case, he seemed to be caught with his pants down.
You know what? She's in the 1%. I think I may agree with Obama...tax the shirt off of her back!!!!
Back to Moore - one interesting thing I see is it seemed like he was squirming when called out on the 1% (by $) issue. I am surprised that he wasn;t prepared with a far better answer. He's not stupid, but in this case, he seemed to be caught with his pants down.
As you say, by definition Moore is part of the 1%, whether he likes it or not. So is Soros, Jay-Z, George Clooney, Sara Jessica Parker and all those other Obama supporters. That doesn't make them bad people or part of the problem or whatever, it's just a fact.
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When he did sicko he had some facts wrong about Canada ... according to our local media.
The hospital he said he was at was actually a walk in clinic ... no hospital would let him and his crew in ... no filming allowed inside hospitals ... and some of the people he interviewed said they only waited 20 minutes (remember he claimed he was at a hospital), I'd like to find a hospital in Canada where you only wait 20 minutes, probably takes you 20 minutes or longer just to register. The 2 hospitals in my area the wait time can exceed 8 hours.
I believe he also said we don't pay ... yes we do ...we pay taxes and here in Ontario we also have health tax levy.
As far as I'm concerned he spreads misinformation.
But hey no one on the left spreads misinformation.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
When he did sicko he had some facts wrong about Canada ... according to our local media.
The hospital he said he was at was actually a walk in clinic ... no hospital would let him and his crew in ... no filming allowed inside hospitals ... and some of the people he interviewed said they only waited 20 minutes (remember he claimed he was at a hospital), I'd like to find a hospital in Canada where you only wait 20 minutes, probably takes you 20 minutes or longer just to register. The 2 hospitals in my area the wait time can exceed 8 hours.
I believe he also said we don't pay ... yes we do ...we pay taxes and here in Ontario we also have health tax levy.
As far as I'm concerned he spreads misinformation.
But hey no one on the left spreads misinformation.
Hopefully we can make our health care system work well for everyone, not just those who work for companies who pay for it or who are able to obtain health insurance. I think those problems are more serious than Canada's.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
When he did sicko he had some facts wrong about Canada ... according to our local media.
The hospital he said he was at was actually a walk in clinic ... no hospital would let him and his crew in ... no filming allowed inside hospitals ... and some of the people he interviewed said they only waited 20 minutes (remember he claimed he was at a hospital), I'd like to find a hospital in Canada where you only wait 20 minutes, probably takes you 20 minutes or longer just to register. The 2 hospitals in my area the wait time can exceed 8 hours.
I believe he also said we don't pay ... yes we do ...we pay taxes and here in Ontario we also have health tax levy.
As far as I'm concerned he spreads misinformation.
But hey no one on the left spreads misinformation.
yeah, I haven't seen Sicko, but I've heard about him talking about how great the Canadian healthcare system is, I thought "not very good investigative journalism, there Mike". I had appendicitis recently. While I was treated very well, I was in the waiting room at emergency for about 8 hours before I got a bed. And that's only because appendicitis is quite serious. People with just broken bones and such can wait up to 24 hours.
think about that people. waiting 24 hours in a waiting room in an uncomfortable chair. it's great that it's socialized, but not so great that all the doctors left to go to the States where they get twice the pay.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
When he did sicko he had some facts wrong about Canada ... according to our local media.
The hospital he said he was at was actually a walk in clinic ... no hospital would let him and his crew in ... no filming allowed inside hospitals ... and some of the people he interviewed said they only waited 20 minutes (remember he claimed he was at a hospital), I'd like to find a hospital in Canada where you only wait 20 minutes, probably takes you 20 minutes or longer just to register. The 2 hospitals in my area the wait time can exceed 8 hours.
I believe he also said we don't pay ... yes we do ...we pay taxes and here in Ontario we also have health tax levy.
As far as I'm concerned he spreads misinformation.
But hey no one on the left spreads misinformation.
yeah, I haven't seen Sicko, but I've heard about him talking about how great the Canadian healthcare system is, I thought "not very good investigative journalism, there Mike". I had appendicitis recently. While I was treated very well, I was in the waiting room at emergency for about 8 hours before I got a bed. And that's only because appendicitis is quite serious. People with just broken bones and such can wait up to 24 hours.
think about that people. waiting 24 hours in a waiting room in an uncomfortable chair. it's great that it's socialized, but not so great that all the doctors left to go to the States where they get twice the pay.
YIKES!!! waiting 8 hours with appendicitis...unbelievable, glad your alright. Yes it's great that its socialized...but the community I used to live in 5 years ago was nearly impossible to get a family Doctor, had only the ER and 1 walk-in clinic...this is a community of 45000...my parents still live there and just recently lost there Doctor, still impossible to get a family Dr. 5 years later not much has improved...we made the decision to move to where we're at for the better health care option...longer drive to work, but we have a family dr., which is nice plus loads of walk in clinics which are good for weekends and after hour care.
Sadly those wait times will likely increase as our population becomes an aging population.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
When he did sicko he had some facts wrong about Canada ... according to our local media.
The hospital he said he was at was actually a walk in clinic ... no hospital would let him and his crew in ... no filming allowed inside hospitals ... and some of the people he interviewed said they only waited 20 minutes (remember he claimed he was at a hospital), I'd like to find a hospital in Canada where you only wait 20 minutes, probably takes you 20 minutes or longer just to register. The 2 hospitals in my area the wait time can exceed 8 hours.
I believe he also said we don't pay ... yes we do ...we pay taxes and here in Ontario we also have health tax levy.
As far as I'm concerned he spreads misinformation.
But hey no one on the left spreads misinformation.
Hopefully we can make our health care system work well for everyone, not just those who work for companies who pay for it or who are able to obtain health insurance. I think those problems are more serious than Canada's.
Some things are really nice...you just show your health and that pretty much covers everything (doctors visits, all test, hospital stays). If you need elective surgery, that can take a while. But generally if you're really sick the system does take care of...but some people do slip through the cracks. I know in sicko he mentioned prescription drugs, unless your on welfare, disability or have private insurance, prescription drugs are not covered, neither is dental, optometry, chiropractor...it really is basic health care...but you'll never go poor if you get sick...or as a co worker says to me "at least we're never to poor to be sick". Does it need improving, yes...it underfunded.
But when I watched sicko and I saw that piece on Canada I knew he was full of BS...and apparently that piece on Cuba was misleading, one of the news stations in the States interviewed Cubans who defected and they said the average Person in Cuba don't get that kind of treatment...thats just what I saw...they could just be pissed a Cuba.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
In this interview Tuesday, Michael Moore got somewhat heated when CNN host Piers Morgan asked for him to admit that he's part of the 1%. Moore stumbled trying to defend his wealth while at the same time make an argument that Capitalism has nothing to do with his stockpile of dough.
Take a look at the exchange between Morgan and Moore:
Morgan: I need you to admit the bleeding obvious. I need you to sit here and say, I'm in the 1 percent, because it's important.
Moore: Well, I can't. Because I'm not.
Morgan: Because the validity of your argument -- you are, though.
Moore: No, I'm not. I'm not.
Morgan: You're not in the 1 percent?
Moore: Of course I'm not. How can I be in the 1 percent?
Morgan: Because you're worth millions.
Moore: No, that's not true. Listen, I do really well. I do well. But what's the point, though? Isn't that --
Morgan: I do, because I find it more interesting if you're in the 1 percent because I think you probably are.
Moore: Yes. Yes.
Morgan: You qualify.
Moore: Right.
Morgan: That you are railing against a lot of capitalist ideals.
Moore: Well, then if you believe that about me, then that's really something, isn't it?
Morgan: No, I'm asking if you accept that.
Moore: That even -- that even though -- that even though I do well, that I don't associate myself with those who do well, I am devoting my life to those who have less and who have been crapped upon by the system. And that's how I spend my time, my energy, my money on trying to up-end this system that I think is a system of violence, it's a system that's unfair to the average working person of this country.
For someone who states he is not in the top 1% that fat bastard has done pretty well for himself, 50mm net worth, 1mm plus apt on the UWS and this 2mm vacation home
pivot and attack, right out of the gop playbook, well played sir :nono: :fp:
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Personally, I think people are entitled to an opinion regardless of how much money they have. In fact, I think the more money and influence someone has, the more responsibility they have to express their opinions, to 'speak truth to power', and try and improve the well-being of others.
Except this slippery used-car salesman didn't speak any truth. So your point is moot.
I'd like to find a hospital in Canada where you only wait 20 minutes, probably takes you 20 minutes or longer just to register. The 2 hospitals in my area the wait time can exceed 8 hours.
I've never waited longer than 30 minutes to be seen in a hospital in my whole life.
Not sure where you came up with the 8 hour figure. Sounds like a stretch to me. And if anyone's ever had to wait 8 hours to be seen then I imagine that's exceptional, and not the norm.
I believe he also said we don't pay ... yes we do ...we pay taxes and here in Ontario we also have health tax levy.
He never said people in Canada or Britain don't pay taxes. He said we don't pay over the counter for medical care. No misinformation there. His movie is perfectly unambiguous.
Wendell Potter, former Head of Corporate Communications at CIGNA (which provides health insurance to nearly 70 percent of the Fortune 100 companies):
WENDELL POTTER: I thought that he hit the nail on the head with his movie. But the industry, from the moment that the industry learned that Michael Moore was taking on the health care industry, it was really concerned.
BILL MOYERS: What were they afraid of?
WENDELL POTTER: They were afraid that people would believe Michael Moore.
BILL MOYERS: We obtained a copy of the game plan that was adopted by the industry's trade association, AHIP. And it spells out the industry strategies in gold letters. It says, "Highlight horror stories of government-run systems." What was that about?
WENDELL POTTER: The industry has always tried to make Americans think that government-run systems are the worst thing that could possibly happen to them, that if you even consider that, you're heading down on the slippery slope towards socialism. So they have used scare tactics for years and years and years, to keep that from happening. If there were a broader program like our Medicare program, it could potentially reduce the profits of these big companies. So that is their biggest concern.
BILL MOYERS: And there was a political strategy. "Position Sicko as a threat to Democrats' larger agenda." What does that mean?
WENDELL POTTER: That means that part of the effort to discredit this film was to use lobbyists and their own staff to go onto Capitol Hill and say, "Look, you don't want to believe this movie. You don't want to talk about it. You don't want to endorse it. And if you do, we can make things tough for you."
BILL MOYERS: How?
WENDELL POTTER: By running ads, commercials in your home district when you're running for reelection, not contributing to your campaigns again, or contributing to your competitor.
Post edited by Byrnzie on
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,090
In this interview Tuesday, Michael Moore got somewhat heated when CNN host Piers Morgan asked for him to admit that he's part of the 1%. Moore stumbled trying to defend his wealth while at the same time make an argument that Capitalism has nothing to do with his stockpile of dough.
Take a look at the exchange between Morgan and Moore:
Morgan: I need you to admit the bleeding obvious. I need you to sit here and say, I'm in the 1 percent, because it's important.
Moore: Well, I can't. Because I'm not.
Morgan: Because the validity of your argument -- you are, though.
Moore: No, I'm not. I'm not.
Morgan: You're not in the 1 percent?
Moore: Of course I'm not. How can I be in the 1 percent?
Morgan: Because you're worth millions.
Moore: No, that's not true. Listen, I do really well. I do well. But what's the point, though? Isn't that --
Morgan: I do, because I find it more interesting if you're in the 1 percent because I think you probably are.
Moore: Yes. Yes.
Morgan: You qualify.
Moore: Right.
Morgan: That you are railing against a lot of capitalist ideals.
Moore: Well, then if you believe that about me, then that's really something, isn't it?
Morgan: No, I'm asking if you accept that.
Moore: That even -- that even though -- that even though I do well, that I don't associate myself with those who do well, I am devoting my life to those who have less and who have been crapped upon by the system. And that's how I spend my time, my energy, my money on trying to up-end this system that I think is a system of violence, it's a system that's unfair to the average working person of this country.
For someone who states he is not in the top 1% that fat bastard has done pretty well for himself, 50mm net worth, 1mm plus apt on the UWS and this 2mm vacation home
pivot and attack, right out of the gop playbook, well played sir :nono: :fp:
From an environmental standpoint, a house like this is uncalled for and to an extent it does bother me personally. But to be fair, Moore is a social issues critic much more than he is as environmentalist. When Bill Gates and Warren Buffet do things like give tons of money away they are praised rather condemned for their wealth. I think if someone has a shit load of money they should do something good with it. Do we know how much money Moore gives away? I'm sure we could come up with plenty of names of billionaires who don't do anything but make themselves more wealthy.
But I have to admit, unless Moore is housing a lot of needy people in that place, it's a lot more than anyone needs.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
I'd like to find a hospital in Canada where you only wait 20 minutes, probably takes you 20 minutes or longer just to register. The 2 hospitals in my area the wait time can exceed 8 hours.
I've never waited longer than 30 minutes to be seen in a hospital in my whole life.
Not sure where you came up with the 8 hour figure. Sounds like a stretch to me. And if anyone's ever had to wait 8 hours to be seen then I imagine that's exceptional, and not the norm.
I haven't agreed with Lukin's stance throughout this election (I've actually been surprised by it to be honest), but I can vouch for his assertion that wait times can be ridiculous. And, so can space- read the following article:
I get a kick out of Health Minister, Colin Hansen, when he stated: "The coffee shop was designed to be used when emergency temporarily required more space." That's fucking hilarious.
While we take care of everyone... we take our time to do it. I have had young athletes wait for a year to have ACL injuries repaired after they join the queue. No joke. Many Canadians wish for another option that might provide quicker service for a fee... but not many wish to do away with our philosophy of treating everyone regardless of social and economic status.
Sorry for the botched quotes. This response was to Byrnzie's response ot Lukins assertion regarding wait times at hospitals.
is that really his house? thats one of the biggest houses ive ever seen. And its definitely more than a 2 million dollar vacation home, that house could be 50 plus million, probably more. There are very few houses ive seen that are bigger
the money issue though isnt limited to just Michael. Tom Morello is about as radical and right on as they come, and he's a millionaire. Chomsky, obviously brilliant, im sure is making bank at MIT or was and now is on pension. PLus hes got what, like 100 books?
Ed is the same way. His house isnt huge, but he's a millionaire as well
I think the point is, unless you are Ian Mackaye, you arent completely as ethical as you could be. Theres only one Ian Mackaye, and I highly doubt that will change anytime soon.
We have no idea how much he donates to charity, or what he does with his money. I'd seriously doubt if he's using the money to buy Bentleys and private jets.
Again, your going to run into this issue no matter who you talk about, unless who you are talking about is named Ian mackaye
I'd like to find a hospital in Canada where you only wait 20 minutes, probably takes you 20 minutes or longer just to register. The 2 hospitals in my area the wait time can exceed 8 hours.
I've never waited longer than 30 minutes to be seen in a hospital in my whole life.
Not sure where you came up with the 8 hour figure. Sounds like a stretch to me. And if anyone's ever had to wait 8 hours to be seen then I imagine that's exceptional, and not the norm.
I believe he also said we don't pay ... yes we do ...we pay taxes and here in Ontario we also have health tax levy.
He never said people in Canada or Britain don't pay taxes. He said we don't pay over the counter for medical care. No misinformation there. His movie is perfectly unambiguous.
Wendell Potter, former Head of Corporate Communications at CIGNA (which provides health insurance to nearly 70 percent of the Fortune 100 companies):
WENDELL POTTER: I thought that he hit the nail on the head with his movie. But the industry, from the moment that the industry learned that Michael Moore was taking on the health care industry, it was really concerned.
BILL MOYERS: What were they afraid of?
WENDELL POTTER: They were afraid that people would believe Michael Moore.
BILL MOYERS: We obtained a copy of the game plan that was adopted by the industry's trade association, AHIP. And it spells out the industry strategies in gold letters. It says, "Highlight horror stories of government-run systems." What was that about?
WENDELL POTTER: The industry has always tried to make Americans think that government-run systems are the worst thing that could possibly happen to them, that if you even consider that, you're heading down on the slippery slope towards socialism. So they have used scare tactics for years and years and years, to keep that from happening. If there were a broader program like our Medicare program, it could potentially reduce the profits of these big companies. So that is their biggest concern.
BILL MOYERS: And there was a political strategy. "Position Sicko as a threat to Democrats' larger agenda." What does that mean?
WENDELL POTTER: That means that part of the effort to discredit this film was to use lobbyists and their own staff to go onto Capitol Hill and say, "Look, you don't want to believe this movie. You don't want to talk about it. You don't want to endorse it. And if you do, we can make things tough for you."
BILL MOYERS: How?
WENDELL POTTER: By running ads, commercials in your home district when you're running for reelection, not contributing to your campaigns again, or contributing to your competitor.
Ontario ER wait times down 1.2 hours since 2009, Dalton McGuinty says
You need to understand 1 thing Canada is in a awkward position...we're right next to the US...the US pays it medical professional much better than we do/can. So many Canadian Doctors/Nurses/Technicians choose to work in the States, the community I'm in borders Detroit so they have to compete with Detroit area to keep our medical professionals.
4.1 million Canadians without family doctor: StatsCan
Thats a lot of people without a Doc in a country of roughly 35 million...when their sick they have 2 choices...ER or walk in clinics. In a larger community you usually have much better choices of in of walk in clinics as opposed to ER's. Where my parents live they 1 ER and 1 walk in clinic...population 45 000.
If you think our wait times are a stretch...please come on over and visit an ER...I'm not talking Toronto or Montreal..any city of 45000-50000 will have very similar problems.
His piece on Canada was poorly done, misleading, poorly researched and quite frankly insulting...many Canadians live in pain waiting for elective surgery which can take a year or longer to get done, test like MRI's can take 5-6 weeks to months to get done depending where its performed.
As for us paying we do...once again misleading...we pay much higher taxes than the average American just to try and maintain the system we got.
So if he mislead about the Canadian health care...what else is he bullshitting about?
I feel the same about him as I do for all people of great wealth...they should more in taxes than they do.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I'd like to find a hospital in Canada where you only wait 20 minutes, probably takes you 20 minutes or longer just to register. The 2 hospitals in my area the wait time can exceed 8 hours.
I've never waited longer than 30 minutes to be seen in a hospital in my whole life.
Not sure where you came up with the 8 hour figure. Sounds like a stretch to me. And if anyone's ever had to wait 8 hours to be seen then I imagine that's exceptional, and not the norm.
I haven't agreed with Lukin's stance throughout this election (I've actually been surprised by it to be honest), but I can vouch for his assertion that wait times can be ridiculous. And, so can space- read the following article:
I get a kick out of Health Minister, Colin Hansen, when he stated: "The coffee shop was designed to be used when emergency temporarily required more space." That's fucking hilarious.
While we take care of everyone... we take our time to do it. I have had young athletes wait for a year to have ACL injuries repaired after they join the queue. No joke. Many Canadians wish for another option that might provide quicker service for a fee... but not many wish to do away with our philosophy of treating everyone regardless of social and economic status.
Sorry for the botched quotes. This response was to Byrnzie's response ot Lukins assertion regarding wait times at hospitals.
I'm not really sure I took a stance in the US election other than to commend those who voted 3rd party. If I mislead you into thinking I could support either of the big 2 that I apologize for.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
You need to understand 1 thing Canada is in a awkward position...we're right next to the US...the US pays it medical professional much better than we do/can. So many Canadian Doctors/Nurses/Technicians choose to work in the States, the community I'm in borders Detroit so they have to compete with Detroit area to keep our medical professionals.
4.1 million Canadians without family doctor: StatsCan
Thats a lot of people without a Doc in a country of roughly 35 million...when their sick they have 2 choices...ER or walk in clinics. In a larger community you usually have much better choices of in of walk in clinics as opposed to ER's. Where my parents live they 1 ER and 1 walk in clinic...population 45 000.
If you think our wait times are a stretch...please come on over and visit an ER...I'm not talking Toronto or Montreal..any city of 45000-50000 will have very similar problems.
His piece on Canada was poorly done, misleading, poorly researched and quite frankly insulting...many Canadians live in pain waiting for elective surgery which can take a year or longer to get done, test like MRI's can take 5-6 weeks to months to get done depending where its performed.
As for us paying we do...once again misleading...we pay much higher taxes than the average American just to try and maintain the system we got.
So if he mislead about the Canadian health care...what else is he bullshitting about?
I feel the same about him as I do for all people of great wealth...they should more in taxes than they do.
Health Canada, a federal department, publishes a series of surveys of the health care system in Canada based on Canadians' first-hand experiences of the health care system.
Although life-threatening cases are dealt with immediately, some services needed are non-urgent and patients are seen at the next-available appointment in their local chosen facility.
The median wait time in Canada to see a special physician is a little over four weeks with 89.5% waiting fewer than 90 days.
The median wait time for diagnostic services such as MRI and CAT scans is two weeks with 86.4% waiting fewer than 90 days.
The median wait time for surgery is four weeks with 82.2% waiting fewer than 90 days.
Another study by the Commonwealth Fund found that 57% of Canadians reported waiting 30 days (4 weeks) or more to see a specialist, broadly in line with the current official statistics. A quarter (24%) of all Canadians waited 4 hours or more in the emergency room.
...It's been postulated that a system of immediate care can be detrimental for optimal patient outcomes due to avoidance of unnecessary or unproven surgery. An example is the Canadian province of British Columbia, where, according to surgeon Dr. Lawrence Burr, 15 heart patients died in 1990 while on a waiting list for heart surgery. According to Robin Hutchinson, senior medical consultant to the Health Ministry's heart program, had the waiting list not existed and all patients given instant access to the surgery, the expected number of fatalities would have been 22 due to the operation mortality rate at that time. Hutchison noted that the BC Medical Association's media campaign did not make reference to these comparative statistics and only focused on deaths during waiting for surgery.
Since, ideally, waiting lists prioritize higher-risk patients to receive surgery ahead of those with lower risks, this helps reduce overall patient mortality. Consequently, a wealthy or highly insured patient in a system based on profit or ability to pay (as in the U.S.) may be pushed into surgery or other procedures more quickly, with a result in higher morbidity or mortality risk. This is in addition to the better-understood phenomenon in which lower-income, uninsured, or under-insured patients have their care denied or delayed, also resulting in worse health care.
I've never waited longer than 30 minutes to be seen in a hospital in my whole life.
Not sure where you came up with the 8 hour figure. Sounds like a stretch to me. And if anyone's ever had to wait 8 hours to be seen then I imagine that's exceptional, and not the norm.
he didn't come up with that figure. that was my reality 4 weeks ago when I went there with appendicitis. and that IS the norm where I live. it's a constant topic in canada. there was a very much publicized case in Winnipeg of a man dying, DYING, of complications of a bladder infection waiting over 30 hours to get seen. the nurses were so overworked and busy he just got glossed over, for 3 full shifts. Of course, that is an exceptional case, but an extreme of a situation that is actually pretty dire.
when I was waiting 8 hours to see a doc? the attending told me "you're lucky. yesterday the average wait was 16 hours". and this isn't for a bruised fucking thumb. this is shit you need to see a doctor for. you can't just get an appointment, go home, and wait for a surgery date. this is broken limbs, bleeding heads, enlarged organs, etc.
I had my appendix out that night and I was lucky I got it out. it could have ruptured while I was waiting. a woman next to me, whom I saw on my way out the next day, also came in with appendicitis, and also got it out, and also had to wait as long as I did.
Post edited by Hugh Freaking Dillon on
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I've never waited longer than 30 minutes to be seen in a hospital in my whole life.
Not sure where you came up with the 8 hour figure. Sounds like a stretch to me. And if anyone's ever had to wait 8 hours to be seen then I imagine that's exceptional, and not the norm.
he didn't come up with that figure. that was my reality 4 weeks ago when I went there with appendicitis. and that IS the norm where I live. it's a constant topic in canada. there was a very much publicized case in Winnipeg of a man dying, DYING, of complications of a bladder infection waiting over 30 hours to get seen. the nurses were so overworked and busy he just got glossed over, for 3 full shifts. Of course, that is an exceptional case, but an extreme of a situation that is actually pretty dire.
when I was waiting 8 hours to see a doc? the attending told me "you're lucky. yesterday the average wait was 16 hours". and this isn't for a bruised fucking thumb. this is shit you need to see a doctor for. you can't just get an appointment, go home, and wait for a surgery date. this is broken limbs, bleeding heads, enlarged organs, etc.
I had my appendix out that night and I was lucky I got it out. it could have ruptured while I was waiting.
Is there a way they can open new hospitals and medical centers? Hire more doctors, nurses, etc.?
Is there a way they can open new hospitals and medical centers? Hire more doctors, nurses, etc.?
the amount of hospitals is not the issue. we have half empty hospitals all over the place. it's the staff. we don't have enough. there aren't enough people replacing the nurses and doctors leaving for better pay in the States. Private health care pays a LOT more than socialized does. And here they are overworked. Surgeons, nurses, desk staff, everyone.
and not enough people going into these fields to replace the retirees going out. people know how stressful it is being a medical professional in this country, and not enough are willing to do it. it's come to the point where nurses aren't even asked to pull overtime anymore, it's just an expectation. these people could work around the clock if they were able to.
and the other issue is just that. because it's "free", people go to emergency for things you don't need to go to emergency for. they clog up the system and it can be frustrating, but how can you turn someone away assuming they don't have a legitimate emergency? you have to check them out.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Is there a way they can open new hospitals and medical centers? Hire more doctors, nurses, etc.?
the amount of hospitals is not the issue. we have half empty hospitals all over the place. it's the staff. we don't have enough. there aren't enough people replacing the nurses and doctors leaving for better pay in the States. Private health care pays a LOT more than socialized does. And here they are overworked. Surgeons, nurses, desk staff, everyone.
and not enough people going into these fields to replace the retirees going out. people know how stressful it is being a medical professional in this country, and not enough are willing to do it. it's come to the point where nurses aren't even asked to pull overtime anymore, it's just an expectation. these people could work around the clock if they were able to.
and the other issue is just that. because it's "free", people go to emergency for things you don't need to go to emergency for. they clog up the system and it can be frustrating, but how can you turn someone away assuming they don't have a legitimate emergency? you have to check them out.
spot on...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
does any country pay their medical personal better than the states...doubtful...thats what Canada is up against...our medical professional are like a lot a people...want to make better money...and many choose to leave and we should be grateful to the one's that stay...but this does leave us short.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
You need to understand 1 thing Canada is in a awkward position...we're right next to the US...the US pays it medical professional much better than we do/can. So many Canadian Doctors/Nurses/Technicians choose to work in the States, the community I'm in borders Detroit so they have to compete with Detroit area to keep our medical professionals.
4.1 million Canadians without family doctor: StatsCan
Thats a lot of people without a Doc in a country of roughly 35 million...when their sick they have 2 choices...ER or walk in clinics. In a larger community you usually have much better choices of in of walk in clinics as opposed to ER's. Where my parents live they 1 ER and 1 walk in clinic...population 45 000.
If you think our wait times are a stretch...please come on over and visit an ER...I'm not talking Toronto or Montreal..any city of 45000-50000 will have very similar problems.
His piece on Canada was poorly done, misleading, poorly researched and quite frankly insulting...many Canadians live in pain waiting for elective surgery which can take a year or longer to get done, test like MRI's can take 5-6 weeks to months to get done depending where its performed.
As for us paying we do...once again misleading...we pay much higher taxes than the average American just to try and maintain the system we got.
So if he mislead about the Canadian health care...what else is he bullshitting about?
I feel the same about him as I do for all people of great wealth...they should more in taxes than they do.
Health Canada, a federal department, publishes a series of surveys of the health care system in Canada based on Canadians' first-hand experiences of the health care system.
Although life-threatening cases are dealt with immediately, some services needed are non-urgent and patients are seen at the next-available appointment in their local chosen facility.
The median wait time in Canada to see a special physician is a little over four weeks with 89.5% waiting fewer than 90 days.
The median wait time for diagnostic services such as MRI and CAT scans is two weeks with 86.4% waiting fewer than 90 days.
The median wait time for surgery is four weeks with 82.2% waiting fewer than 90 days.
Another study by the Commonwealth Fund found that 57% of Canadians reported waiting 30 days (4 weeks) or more to see a specialist, broadly in line with the current official statistics. A quarter (24%) of all Canadians waited 4 hours or more in the emergency room.
...It's been postulated that a system of immediate care can be detrimental for optimal patient outcomes due to avoidance of unnecessary or unproven surgery. An example is the Canadian province of British Columbia, where, according to surgeon Dr. Lawrence Burr, 15 heart patients died in 1990 while on a waiting list for heart surgery. According to Robin Hutchinson, senior medical consultant to the Health Ministry's heart program, had the waiting list not existed and all patients given instant access to the surgery, the expected number of fatalities would have been 22 due to the operation mortality rate at that time. Hutchison noted that the BC Medical Association's media campaign did not make reference to these comparative statistics and only focused on deaths during waiting for surgery.
Since, ideally, waiting lists prioritize higher-risk patients to receive surgery ahead of those with lower risks, this helps reduce overall patient mortality. Consequently, a wealthy or highly insured patient in a system based on profit or ability to pay (as in the U.S.) may be pushed into surgery or other procedures more quickly, with a result in higher morbidity or mortality risk. This is in addition to the better-understood phenomenon in which lower-income, uninsured, or under-insured patients have their care denied or delayed, also resulting in worse health care.
Health Canada...thats a government agency...they are going to try and paint the rosiest picture possible so our current federal government can continue to under fund our health care system.
All that matters to me is I know what Moore said about the Canadian system is bullshit...I live in this country, pay taxes in this country and get my medical treatment in this country...he doesn't.
He was trying to show how bad the US system was by using us as an example...our health care is better than the states (in some ways it's not)...but he doesn't have to make shit up to prove his point...I imagine if he just said "in Canada it doesn't matter how poor you are, you still get treatment and it you don't need a credit card", then his point would have been made...but instead he went and interviewed people in a walk in clinic, not an ER. Just a crockumentary maker.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I've never waited longer than 30 minutes to be seen in a hospital in my whole life.
Not sure where you came up with the 8 hour figure. Sounds like a stretch to me. And if anyone's ever had to wait 8 hours to be seen then I imagine that's exceptional, and not the norm.
he didn't come up with that figure. that was my reality 4 weeks ago when I went there with appendicitis. and that IS the norm where I live. it's a constant topic in canada. there was a very much publicized case in Winnipeg of a man dying, DYING, of complications of a bladder infection waiting over 30 hours to get seen. the nurses were so overworked and busy he just got glossed over, for 3 full shifts. Of course, that is an exceptional case, but an extreme of a situation that is actually pretty dire.
when I was waiting 8 hours to see a doc? the attending told me "you're lucky. yesterday the average wait was 16 hours". and this isn't for a bruised fucking thumb. this is shit you need to see a doctor for. you can't just get an appointment, go home, and wait for a surgery date. this is broken limbs, bleeding heads, enlarged organs, etc.
I had my appendix out that night and I was lucky I got it out. it could have ruptured while I was waiting. a woman next to me, whom I saw on my way out the next day, also came in with appendicitis, and also got it out, and also had to wait as long as I did.
And it should be pointed out you live in a large city...many people in much smaller communities the care is just not great.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I've never waited longer than 30 minutes to be seen in a hospital in my whole life.
Not sure where you came up with the 8 hour figure. Sounds like a stretch to me. And if anyone's ever had to wait 8 hours to be seen then I imagine that's exceptional, and not the norm.
he didn't come up with that figure. that was my reality 4 weeks ago when I went there with appendicitis. and that IS the norm where I live. it's a constant topic in canada. there was a very much publicized case in Winnipeg of a man dying, DYING, of complications of a bladder infection waiting over 30 hours to get seen. the nurses were so overworked and busy he just got glossed over, for 3 full shifts. Of course, that is an exceptional case, but an extreme of a situation that is actually pretty dire.
when I was waiting 8 hours to see a doc? the attending told me "you're lucky. yesterday the average wait was 16 hours". and this isn't for a bruised fucking thumb. this is shit you need to see a doctor for. you can't just get an appointment, go home, and wait for a surgery date. this is broken limbs, bleeding heads, enlarged organs, etc.
I had my appendix out that night and I was lucky I got it out. it could have ruptured while I was waiting.
Is there a way they can open new hospitals and medical centers? Hire more doctors, nurses, etc.?
Here in Ontario they have been trying...it takes 10 years or so to be a GP (I think), and specialist much longer, nursing used to be 2 or 3 years now many opt for 2 years at college then 2 years at university. They've introduced Nurse Practitioner Programs, just recently introduced a program to allow pharmacist to give flu shots, renew prescription and prescribe certain non narcotics.
We're an aging population that will need more care in the future, it is very challenging for the doctors right now.
I recently had foot surgery, I waited 6 months just see the orthopaedic surgeon and the surgery would have been 6-9 months after seeing him...fortunately between my wife and I we had enough private insurance cover 50% at a private clinic which I opted for.
There are no easy answers and no quick fixes...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
All that matters to me is I know what Moore said about the Canadian system is bullshit...I live in this country, pay taxes in this country and get my medical treatment in this country...he doesn't.
And when the former Head of Corporate Communications at CIGNA (which provides health insurance to nearly 70 percent of the Fortune 100 companies) says that the movie 'Sicko' "hit the nail on the head", I suppose that's also bullshit, right?
I recently had foot surgery, I waited 6 months just see the orthopaedic surgeon and the surgery would have been 6-9 months after seeing him...fortunately between my wife and I we had enough private insurance cover 50% at a private clinic which I opted for.
There are no easy answers and no quick fixes...
And you think foot surgery qualifies as urgent treatment?
I recently had foot surgery, I waited 6 months just see the orthopaedic surgeon and the surgery would have been 6-9 months after seeing him...fortunately between my wife and I we had enough private insurance cover 50% at a private clinic which I opted for.
There are no easy answers and no quick fixes...
And you think foot surgery qualifies as urgent treatment?
Fuck you ... i never said it qualified as an emergency ...using as example of how long treatment can take ... so do me a favour go worship your your michael moore's and all the other celebrities...can't be bothered discussing a topic with a know it all who's in China and knows fuck all about our health care system other than watching and reading bullshit.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Comments
Back to Moore - one interesting thing I see is it seemed like he was squirming when called out on the 1% (by $) issue. I am surprised that he wasn;t prepared with a far better answer. He's not stupid, but in this case, he seemed to be caught with his pants down.
As you say, by definition Moore is part of the 1%, whether he likes it or not. So is Soros, Jay-Z, George Clooney, Sara Jessica Parker and all those other Obama supporters. That doesn't make them bad people or part of the problem or whatever, it's just a fact.
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The hospital he said he was at was actually a walk in clinic ... no hospital would let him and his crew in ... no filming allowed inside hospitals ... and some of the people he interviewed said they only waited 20 minutes (remember he claimed he was at a hospital), I'd like to find a hospital in Canada where you only wait 20 minutes, probably takes you 20 minutes or longer just to register. The 2 hospitals in my area the wait time can exceed 8 hours.
I believe he also said we don't pay ... yes we do ...we pay taxes and here in Ontario we also have health tax levy.
As far as I'm concerned he spreads misinformation.
But hey no one on the left spreads misinformation.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Hopefully we can make our health care system work well for everyone, not just those who work for companies who pay for it or who are able to obtain health insurance. I think those problems are more serious than Canada's.
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yeah, I haven't seen Sicko, but I've heard about him talking about how great the Canadian healthcare system is, I thought "not very good investigative journalism, there Mike". I had appendicitis recently. While I was treated very well, I was in the waiting room at emergency for about 8 hours before I got a bed. And that's only because appendicitis is quite serious. People with just broken bones and such can wait up to 24 hours.
think about that people. waiting 24 hours in a waiting room in an uncomfortable chair. it's great that it's socialized, but not so great that all the doctors left to go to the States where they get twice the pay.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
YIKES!!! waiting 8 hours with appendicitis...unbelievable, glad your alright. Yes it's great that its socialized...but the community I used to live in 5 years ago was nearly impossible to get a family Doctor, had only the ER and 1 walk-in clinic...this is a community of 45000...my parents still live there and just recently lost there Doctor, still impossible to get a family Dr. 5 years later not much has improved...we made the decision to move to where we're at for the better health care option...longer drive to work, but we have a family dr., which is nice plus loads of walk in clinics which are good for weekends and after hour care.
Sadly those wait times will likely increase as our population becomes an aging population.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Some things are really nice...you just show your health and that pretty much covers everything (doctors visits, all test, hospital stays). If you need elective surgery, that can take a while. But generally if you're really sick the system does take care of...but some people do slip through the cracks. I know in sicko he mentioned prescription drugs, unless your on welfare, disability or have private insurance, prescription drugs are not covered, neither is dental, optometry, chiropractor...it really is basic health care...but you'll never go poor if you get sick...or as a co worker says to me "at least we're never to poor to be sick". Does it need improving, yes...it underfunded.
But when I watched sicko and I saw that piece on Canada I knew he was full of BS...and apparently that piece on Cuba was misleading, one of the news stations in the States interviewed Cubans who defected and they said the average Person in Cuba don't get that kind of treatment...thats just what I saw...they could just be pissed a Cuba.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
pivot and attack, right out of the gop playbook, well played sir :nono: :fp:
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I'm pretty sure it wasn't.
Except this slippery used-car salesman didn't speak any truth. So your point is moot.
I've never waited longer than 30 minutes to be seen in a hospital in my whole life.
Not sure where you came up with the 8 hour figure. Sounds like a stretch to me. And if anyone's ever had to wait 8 hours to be seen then I imagine that's exceptional, and not the norm.
He never said people in Canada or Britain don't pay taxes. He said we don't pay over the counter for medical care. No misinformation there. His movie is perfectly unambiguous.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=103487&hilit=+sicko#p2375718
Wendell Potter, former Head of Corporate Communications at CIGNA (which provides health insurance to nearly 70 percent of the Fortune 100 companies):
WENDELL POTTER: I thought that he hit the nail on the head with his movie. But the industry, from the moment that the industry learned that Michael Moore was taking on the health care industry, it was really concerned.
BILL MOYERS: What were they afraid of?
WENDELL POTTER: They were afraid that people would believe Michael Moore.
BILL MOYERS: We obtained a copy of the game plan that was adopted by the industry's trade association, AHIP. And it spells out the industry strategies in gold letters. It says, "Highlight horror stories of government-run systems." What was that about?
WENDELL POTTER: The industry has always tried to make Americans think that government-run systems are the worst thing that could possibly happen to them, that if you even consider that, you're heading down on the slippery slope towards socialism. So they have used scare tactics for years and years and years, to keep that from happening. If there were a broader program like our Medicare program, it could potentially reduce the profits of these big companies. So that is their biggest concern.
BILL MOYERS: And there was a political strategy. "Position Sicko as a threat to Democrats' larger agenda." What does that mean?
WENDELL POTTER: That means that part of the effort to discredit this film was to use lobbyists and their own staff to go onto Capitol Hill and say, "Look, you don't want to believe this movie. You don't want to talk about it. You don't want to endorse it. And if you do, we can make things tough for you."
BILL MOYERS: How?
WENDELL POTTER: By running ads, commercials in your home district when you're running for reelection, not contributing to your campaigns again, or contributing to your competitor.
From an environmental standpoint, a house like this is uncalled for and to an extent it does bother me personally. But to be fair, Moore is a social issues critic much more than he is as environmentalist. When Bill Gates and Warren Buffet do things like give tons of money away they are praised rather condemned for their wealth. I think if someone has a shit load of money they should do something good with it. Do we know how much money Moore gives away? I'm sure we could come up with plenty of names of billionaires who don't do anything but make themselves more wealthy.
But I have to admit, unless Moore is housing a lot of needy people in that place, it's a lot more than anyone needs.
I've never waited longer than 30 minutes to be seen in a hospital in my whole life.
Not sure where you came up with the 8 hour figure. Sounds like a stretch to me. And if anyone's ever had to wait 8 hours to be seen then I imagine that's exceptional, and not the norm.
I haven't agreed with Lukin's stance throughout this election (I've actually been surprised by it to be honest), but I can vouch for his assertion that wait times can be ridiculous. And, so can space- read the following article:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/bri ... cle569059/
I get a kick out of Health Minister, Colin Hansen, when he stated: "The coffee shop was designed to be used when emergency temporarily required more space." That's fucking hilarious.
While we take care of everyone... we take our time to do it. I have had young athletes wait for a year to have ACL injuries repaired after they join the queue. No joke. Many Canadians wish for another option that might provide quicker service for a fee... but not many wish to do away with our philosophy of treating everyone regardless of social and economic status.
Sorry for the botched quotes. This response was to Byrnzie's response ot Lukins assertion regarding wait times at hospitals.
Ed is the same way. His house isnt huge, but he's a millionaire as well
I think the point is, unless you are Ian Mackaye, you arent completely as ethical as you could be. Theres only one Ian Mackaye, and I highly doubt that will change anytime soon.
We have no idea how much he donates to charity, or what he does with his money. I'd seriously doubt if he's using the money to buy Bentleys and private jets.
Again, your going to run into this issue no matter who you talk about, unless who you are talking about is named Ian mackaye
Ontario ER wait times down 1.2 hours since 2009, Dalton McGuinty says
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/poli ... uinty-says
Those are 4 - 8 hours and thats down from 2009 and believe me when he did sicko the wait times were much worse.
Windsor Star>Blogs >Life>Body And Health Body and Health RSS Feed
Local ER wait times on target for non-complicated patients, performing better than four years ago
http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2012/10/31 ... onditions/
Local wait times in my area.
You need to understand 1 thing Canada is in a awkward position...we're right next to the US...the US pays it medical professional much better than we do/can. So many Canadian Doctors/Nurses/Technicians choose to work in the States, the community I'm in borders Detroit so they have to compete with Detroit area to keep our medical professionals.
4.1 million Canadians without family doctor: StatsCan
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/200 ... atcan.html
Thats a lot of people without a Doc in a country of roughly 35 million...when their sick they have 2 choices...ER or walk in clinics. In a larger community you usually have much better choices of in of walk in clinics as opposed to ER's. Where my parents live they 1 ER and 1 walk in clinic...population 45 000.
If you think our wait times are a stretch...please come on over and visit an ER...I'm not talking Toronto or Montreal..any city of 45000-50000 will have very similar problems.
His piece on Canada was poorly done, misleading, poorly researched and quite frankly insulting...many Canadians live in pain waiting for elective surgery which can take a year or longer to get done, test like MRI's can take 5-6 weeks to months to get done depending where its performed.
As for us paying we do...once again misleading...we pay much higher taxes than the average American just to try and maintain the system we got.
So if he mislead about the Canadian health care...what else is he bullshitting about?
I feel the same about him as I do for all people of great wealth...they should more in taxes than they do.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I'm not really sure I took a stance in the US election other than to commend those who voted 3rd party. If I mislead you into thinking I could support either of the big 2 that I apologize for.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_car ... Wait_times
Wait times
Health Canada, a federal department, publishes a series of surveys of the health care system in Canada based on Canadians' first-hand experiences of the health care system.
Although life-threatening cases are dealt with immediately, some services needed are non-urgent and patients are seen at the next-available appointment in their local chosen facility.
The median wait time in Canada to see a special physician is a little over four weeks with 89.5% waiting fewer than 90 days.
The median wait time for diagnostic services such as MRI and CAT scans is two weeks with 86.4% waiting fewer than 90 days.
The median wait time for surgery is four weeks with 82.2% waiting fewer than 90 days.
Another study by the Commonwealth Fund found that 57% of Canadians reported waiting 30 days (4 weeks) or more to see a specialist, broadly in line with the current official statistics. A quarter (24%) of all Canadians waited 4 hours or more in the emergency room.
...It's been postulated that a system of immediate care can be detrimental for optimal patient outcomes due to avoidance of unnecessary or unproven surgery. An example is the Canadian province of British Columbia, where, according to surgeon Dr. Lawrence Burr, 15 heart patients died in 1990 while on a waiting list for heart surgery. According to Robin Hutchinson, senior medical consultant to the Health Ministry's heart program, had the waiting list not existed and all patients given instant access to the surgery, the expected number of fatalities would have been 22 due to the operation mortality rate at that time. Hutchison noted that the BC Medical Association's media campaign did not make reference to these comparative statistics and only focused on deaths during waiting for surgery.
Since, ideally, waiting lists prioritize higher-risk patients to receive surgery ahead of those with lower risks, this helps reduce overall patient mortality. Consequently, a wealthy or highly insured patient in a system based on profit or ability to pay (as in the U.S.) may be pushed into surgery or other procedures more quickly, with a result in higher morbidity or mortality risk. This is in addition to the better-understood phenomenon in which lower-income, uninsured, or under-insured patients have their care denied or delayed, also resulting in worse health care.
he didn't come up with that figure. that was my reality 4 weeks ago when I went there with appendicitis. and that IS the norm where I live. it's a constant topic in canada. there was a very much publicized case in Winnipeg of a man dying, DYING, of complications of a bladder infection waiting over 30 hours to get seen. the nurses were so overworked and busy he just got glossed over, for 3 full shifts. Of course, that is an exceptional case, but an extreme of a situation that is actually pretty dire.
when I was waiting 8 hours to see a doc? the attending told me "you're lucky. yesterday the average wait was 16 hours". and this isn't for a bruised fucking thumb. this is shit you need to see a doctor for. you can't just get an appointment, go home, and wait for a surgery date. this is broken limbs, bleeding heads, enlarged organs, etc.
I had my appendix out that night and I was lucky I got it out. it could have ruptured while I was waiting. a woman next to me, whom I saw on my way out the next day, also came in with appendicitis, and also got it out, and also had to wait as long as I did.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Is there a way they can open new hospitals and medical centers? Hire more doctors, nurses, etc.?
the amount of hospitals is not the issue. we have half empty hospitals all over the place. it's the staff. we don't have enough. there aren't enough people replacing the nurses and doctors leaving for better pay in the States. Private health care pays a LOT more than socialized does. And here they are overworked. Surgeons, nurses, desk staff, everyone.
and not enough people going into these fields to replace the retirees going out. people know how stressful it is being a medical professional in this country, and not enough are willing to do it. it's come to the point where nurses aren't even asked to pull overtime anymore, it's just an expectation. these people could work around the clock if they were able to.
and the other issue is just that. because it's "free", people go to emergency for things you don't need to go to emergency for. they clog up the system and it can be frustrating, but how can you turn someone away assuming they don't have a legitimate emergency? you have to check them out.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
spot on...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
All that matters to me is I know what Moore said about the Canadian system is bullshit...I live in this country, pay taxes in this country and get my medical treatment in this country...he doesn't.
He was trying to show how bad the US system was by using us as an example...our health care is better than the states (in some ways it's not)...but he doesn't have to make shit up to prove his point...I imagine if he just said "in Canada it doesn't matter how poor you are, you still get treatment and it you don't need a credit card", then his point would have been made...but instead he went and interviewed people in a walk in clinic, not an ER. Just a crockumentary maker.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
And it should be pointed out you live in a large city...many people in much smaller communities the care is just not great.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Here in Ontario they have been trying...it takes 10 years or so to be a GP (I think), and specialist much longer, nursing used to be 2 or 3 years now many opt for 2 years at college then 2 years at university. They've introduced Nurse Practitioner Programs, just recently introduced a program to allow pharmacist to give flu shots, renew prescription and prescribe certain non narcotics.
We're an aging population that will need more care in the future, it is very challenging for the doctors right now.
I recently had foot surgery, I waited 6 months just see the orthopaedic surgeon and the surgery would have been 6-9 months after seeing him...fortunately between my wife and I we had enough private insurance cover 50% at a private clinic which I opted for.
There are no easy answers and no quick fixes...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
And when the former Head of Corporate Communications at CIGNA (which provides health insurance to nearly 70 percent of the Fortune 100 companies) says that the movie 'Sicko' "hit the nail on the head", I suppose that's also bullshit, right?
And you think foot surgery qualifies as urgent treatment?
Fuck you ... i never said it qualified as an emergency ...using as example of how long treatment can take ... so do me a favour go worship your your michael moore's and all the other celebrities...can't be bothered discussing a topic with a know it all who's in China and knows fuck all about our health care system other than watching and reading bullshit.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon