For the record... the majority of the country DOES want it.
Looks pretty 50/50 to me especially with the downward trend throughout the 2011 year as people realized it would cost them money.
I think you read the graph backwards. The downward trend in 2011 was for people who did not think it should be valid. The support for gay marriage rose in 2011
Umm...no. See the dark green line...the one that says supports...it's going down. :? Unfortunately as the graph keeps getting qouted it keeps getting smaller. I think you should go back to where it was first posted so you can see it for yourself.
very well said. My thoughts only articulated much clearer than I could ever say.
Thanks.
I've had to say this so many times. I've had to defend myself so many times it's almost done from memory now.
Yeah, I have a very thick skin and words seldom hurt me at all. When someone asshole tries to poke at me with phrases like "alternative lifestyle" or something equally out-dated and obtuse, it just makes them look like... well, assholes.
But when you start to compare my husband to a dog or a robot... the man who has been with me through everything and supported me through it all... well, that's where I'm not going to just shrug it off.
I don't use the term "alterantive lifestyle" to poke fun of anyone. Tell me the proper term and I will use it from here on in.
very well said. My thoughts only articulated much clearer than I could ever say.
Thanks.
I've had to say this so many times. I've had to defend myself so many times it's almost done from memory now.
Yeah, I have a very thick skin and words seldom hurt me at all. When someone asshole tries to poke at me with phrases like "alternative lifestyle" or something equally out-dated and obtuse, it just makes them look like... well, assholes.
But when you start to compare my husband to a dog or a robot... the man who has been with me through everything and supported me through it all... well, that's where I'm not going to just shrug it off.
The words people say definitely tells us a lot more about them than about the people to whom they are speaking. Thank you for being so open about yourself and your life on here and for verbalizing the thoughts I can't always express so clearly.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I think you read the graph backwards. The downward trend in 2011 was for people who did not think it should be valid. The support for gay marriage rose in 2011
And that's nation-wide. Every poll in California for the last three years have shown that if marriage equality came up for a vote again, it would pass with a massive majority.
But most of us in the GLBT community have said that no...we're not interested in votes. I won't give any support to an action that I think is illegal... letting the majority vote on the rights of a minority.
Besides... if they vote to give something to you this year they can vote it away the year after.
That means we're taking it to the supreme court where I have less of a chance of being told my marriage is like fucking my dog.
Just in case anyone is having trouble reading the end of the chart. Support for...and I'm waiting for the correct term...is it "same sex" marriage is going down.
Looks pretty 50/50 to me especially with the downward trend throughout the 2011 year as people realized it would cost them money.
I think you read the graph backwards. The downward trend in 2011 was for people who did not think it should be valid. The support for gay marriage rose in 2011
Umm...no. See the dark green line...the one that says supports...it's going down. :? Unfortunately as the graph keeps getting qouted it keeps getting smaller. I think you should go back to where it was first posted so you can see it for yourself.
The dark green line went up, from 44% to 53% I believe. The light green line went down from 53 to 44%
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
very well said. My thoughts only articulated much clearer than I could ever say.
Thanks.
I've had to say this so many times. I've had to defend myself so many times it's almost done from memory now.
Yeah, I have a very thick skin and words seldom hurt me at all. When someone asshole tries to poke at me with phrases like "alternative lifestyle" or something equally out-dated and obtuse, it just makes them look like... well, assholes.
But when you start to compare my husband to a dog or a robot... the man who has been with me through everything and supported me through it all... well, that's where I'm not going to just shrug it off.
I don't use the term "alterantive lifestyle" to poke fun of anyone. Tell me the proper term and I will use it from here on in.
You can say LGBT or GLBT people, same sex marriage, etc. It's not a lifestyle, it's part of someone's identity.
Post edited by comebackgirl on
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I think you read the graph backwards. The downward trend in 2011 was for people who did not think it should be valid. The support for gay marriage rose in 2011
And that's nation-wide. Every poll in California for the last three years have shown that if marriage equality came up for a vote again, it would pass with a massive majority.
But most of us in the GLBT community have said that no...we're not interested in votes. I won't give any support to an action that I think is illegal... letting the majority vote on the rights of a minority.
Besides... if they vote to give something to you this year they can vote it away the year after.
That means we're taking it to the supreme court where I have less of a chance of being told my marriage is like fucking my dog.
This is the United States of America not the United State of California correct?
I think you read the graph backwards. The downward trend in 2011 was for people who did not think it should be valid. The support for gay marriage rose in 2011
It should also be noted that there's a bit of eb and flow. There aren't a whole lot of polls on the subject so trying to find very reliable ones is tricky. You have to look at the 5-year trends to see which direction things are going.
but the rates have been pretty steady over the course of the last 16 years that support and opposition changes an average of 1-2% per year.
Which means that in 2016, this will be a lost cause.
The dark green line went up, from 44% to 53% I believe. The light green line went down from 53 to 44%
Check the chart again. The downward trend started in 2011...right around when people starting noticing the economic ramifications of it. Coincidence...I don't think so.
I think you read the graph backwards. The downward trend in 2011 was for people who did not think it should be valid. The support for gay marriage rose in 2011
And that's nation-wide. Every poll in California for the last three years have shown that if marriage equality came up for a vote again, it would pass with a massive majority.
But most of us in the GLBT community have said that no...we're not interested in votes. I won't give any support to an action that I think is illegal... letting the majority vote on the rights of a minority.
Besides... if they vote to give something to you this year they can vote it away the year after.
That means we're taking it to the supreme court where I have less of a chance of being told my marriage is like fucking my dog.
That is good news. It sounds like that is the path to follow - one that will lead to the recognition of true rights. Rights that everyone should be entitled to and not have to fear having them voted away.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I think you read the graph backwards. The downward trend in 2011 was for people who did not think it should be valid. The support for gay marriage rose in 2011
It should also be noted that there's a bit of eb and flow. There aren't a whole lot of polls on the subject so trying to find very reliable ones is tricky. You have to look at the 5-year trends to see which direction things are going.
but the rates have been pretty steady over the course of the last 16 years that support and opposition changes an average of 1-2% per year.
Which means that in 2016, this will be a lost cause.
The dark green line went up, from 44% to 53% I believe. The light green line went down from 53 to 44%
Check the chart again. The downward trend started in 2011...right around when people starting noticing the economic ramifications of it. Coincidence...I don't think so.
Ok I see the end part that had been cut off, showing that supporters still have the majority, with the overall trend of support increasing. Good news.
It's interesting though, because women have a slight majority in the country, and male legislators are still trying to make laws about our bodies.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
The dark green line went up, from 44% to 53% I believe. The light green line went down from 53 to 44%
Check the chart again. The downward trend started in 2011...right around when people starting noticing the economic ramifications of it. Coincidence...I don't think so.
Ok I see the end part that had been cut off, showing that supporters still have the majority, with the overall trend of support increasing. Good news.
It's interesting though, because women have a slight majority in the country, and male legislators are still trying to make laws about our bodies.
Run for office then or support more women. If they are the majority it shouldn't be too hard. Last time I checked, there are women politicians as well? Many of them are even Republicans.
Check the chart again. The downward trend started in 2011...right around when people starting noticing the economic ramifications of it. Coincidence...I don't think so.
Ok I see the end part that had been cut off, showing that supporters still have the majority, with the overall trend of support increasing. Good news.
It's interesting though, because women have a slight majority in the country, and male legislators are still trying to make laws about our bodies.
Run for office then or support more women. If they are the majority it shouldn't be too hard. Last time I checked, there are women politicians as well? Many of them are even Republicans.
Way too many skeletons in my closet to run for office :shifty: I do support female or male politicians if they represent my view. These issues have been somewhat divisive for Republican women. Even Ann Coulter spoke out about Aiken.
My post was referring to your statement about majority rule though. Look out DS :shock:
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
It's funny. Support has increased 20% over the last 16 years while opposition has declined 20% and he points out a 1 year change. Trends...
Exactly! Look at where it was in '96 and '99. Talk about support trending upwards. That is a huge leap. Good to see.
ANd look what happened to support for it from 07 to 10 when the country was probably in it's worst recession ever. COuld it be that people actually care more about themselves and their own wallets? ANd you would think with some states allowing gay marriage since 2011 the trend would go up...but surprisingly it has gone down during that period.
It's funny. Support has increased 20% over the last 16 years while opposition has declined 20% and he points out a 1 year change. Trends...
Exactly! Look at where it was in '96 and '99. Talk about support trending upwards. That is a huge leap. Good to see.
And he pulls "its trending down because of the economic ramifications". Talk about an assumption. My assumption would be that it's due to the nature of the issue right now and the polarization in this country. That's much more logical. Either way. 20 points up in 16 years with the generation that supports it coming of age and beginning to gain power
Way too many skeletons in my closet to run for office :shifty: I do support female or male politicians if they represent my view. These issues have been somewhat divisive for Republican women. Even Ann Coulter spoke out about Aiken.
My post was referring to your statement about majority rule though. Look out DS :shock:
Way too many skeletons in my closet to run for office :shifty: I do support female or male politicians if they represent my view. These issues have been somewhat divisive for Republican women. Even Ann Coulter spoke out about Aiken.
My post was referring to your statement about majority rule though. Look out DS :shock:
I stand by my statement. MAjority does rule.
uh oh :shock:
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I posted an hour long debate on gay marriage and not once was costs mentioned. The overall debate in this country has nothing to do with costs. That excuse is nonsense.
It's funny. Support has increased 20% over the last 16 years while opposition has declined 20% and he points out a 1 year change. Trends...
Exactly! Look at where it was in '96 and '99. Talk about support trending upwards. That is a huge leap. Good to see.
And he pulls "its trending down because of the economic ramifications". Talk about an assumption. My assumption would be that it's due to the nature of the issue right now and the polarization in this country. That's much more logical. Either way. 20 points up in 16 years with the generation that supports it coming of age and beginning to gain power
Exactly - huge assumption. I'm not sure if the 1 year change is even statistically significant. The 16 year change certainly is.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Exactly! Look at where it was in '96 and '99. Talk about support trending upwards. That is a huge leap. Good to see.
Well and as the right comes up with silly new arguments and floods the airwaves with them, there's a bit of eb and flow while people buy the argument for a bit and then... realize they're being silly.
Look at how the hysteria whipped up by Ken Mehlman at the end of 2004 changed things... and now that change didn't last long.
Much like the vitriol of Prop8 in California and Question 1 in Maine gave mid 2008 a dent that was corrected within a year. Once 2011 rolled around the "nice" gay and lesbian celebrities like Ricky Martin and Doogie Howser and Wanda Sykes started coming out and talking about their husbands and wives and kids... that's when we saw a huge bump.
And now that Matt Bomber is taking the kids around, people can see exactly who they're voting against.
Just in case anyone is having trouble reading the end of the chart. Support for...and I'm waiting for the correct term...is it "same sex" marriage is going down.
Support isn't going down based on the graph. The margin of error in the survey is +/- 3%. So a 3% difference isn't statistically significant and doesn't indicate a "trend".
Speaking of Paul Ryan has anyone here ever tried a using a Flesh light?
Uh... ok, totally off topic but I produced a series of promo clips for FleshJack (the same company, the same product with a gay male target market) and yes, I have like about 20 in my studio that I used to give models when we were doing solo scenes. All the different colours and models they have.
Why... do you want one? (and no... not a "used" one. They're kinda like the flying beasts in Avatar... once it's bonded with a rider, they never give it up).
Exactly! Look at where it was in '96 and '99. Talk about support trending upwards. That is a huge leap. Good to see.
Well and as the right comes up with silly new arguments and floods the airwaves with them, there's a bit of eb and flow while people buy the argument for a bit and then... realize they're being silly.
Look at how the hysteria whipped up by Ken Mehlman at the end of 2004 changed things... and now that change didn't last long.
Much like the vitriol of Prop8 in California and Question 1 in Maine gave mid 2008 a dent that was corrected within a year. Once 2011 rolled around the "nice" gay and lesbian celebrities like Ricky Martin and Doogie Howser and Wanda Sykes started coming out and talking about their husbands and wives and kids... that's when we saw a huge bump.
And now that Matt Bomber is taking the kids around, people can see exactly who they're voting against.
That makes sense. People start realizing that they have been voting against people, just normal, likable people with families, etc rather than some evil entity that is going to somehow damage the world. Maybe they then realize that by supporting people they are actually supporting the very values, such as commitment and strong family bonds, that are important to them.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
That makes sense. People start realizing that they have been voting against people, just normal, likable people with families, etc rather than some evil entity that is going to somehow damage the world.
I know that my family was ambivalent about marriage equality until I dragged them kicking and screaming into the new reality. Now they march in more pride parades than I do. They've also been lifelines and support system for MANY university students.
Most of my buddies from college were all various degrees of uncomfortable with knowing a gay person until they found out that I was... that changed a lot of minds. Even from places I've worked in the past... people have told me that once they saw us together and saw us as a "real couple" and not some nebulous concept of "changing the definition of a word" that it made a huge difference. The more of us that come out... the more the world changes.
I've always said to put a nice couple like Anderson and Ben or Ellen and Portia in front of people so they can see who they're voting against. That's how we're going to win this.
Well... and see the downright asinine arguments that we've seen in this thread.
Comments
Umm...no. See the dark green line...the one that says supports...it's going down. :? Unfortunately as the graph keeps getting qouted it keeps getting smaller. I think you should go back to where it was first posted so you can see it for yourself.
I don't use the term "alterantive lifestyle" to poke fun of anyone. Tell me the proper term and I will use it from here on in.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
And that's nation-wide. Every poll in California for the last three years have shown that if marriage equality came up for a vote again, it would pass with a massive majority.
But most of us in the GLBT community have said that no...we're not interested in votes. I won't give any support to an action that I think is illegal... letting the majority vote on the rights of a minority.
Besides... if they vote to give something to you this year they can vote it away the year after.
That means we're taking it to the supreme court where I have less of a chance of being told my marriage is like fucking my dog.
Just in case anyone is having trouble reading the end of the chart. Support for...and I'm waiting for the correct term...is it "same sex" marriage is going down.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
This is the United States of America not the United State of California correct?
It should also be noted that there's a bit of eb and flow. There aren't a whole lot of polls on the subject so trying to find very reliable ones is tricky. You have to look at the 5-year trends to see which direction things are going.
but the rates have been pretty steady over the course of the last 16 years that support and opposition changes an average of 1-2% per year.
Which means that in 2016, this will be a lost cause.
And good, I'm sick of it.
Check the chart again. The downward trend started in 2011...right around when people starting noticing the economic ramifications of it. Coincidence...I don't think so.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
That being said...it is trending downward.
It's interesting though, because women have a slight majority in the country, and male legislators are still trying to make laws about our bodies.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Run for office then or support more women. If they are the majority it shouldn't be too hard. Last time I checked, there are women politicians as well? Many of them are even Republicans.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
My post was referring to your statement about majority rule though. Look out DS :shock:
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
ANd look what happened to support for it from 07 to 10 when the country was probably in it's worst recession ever. COuld it be that people actually care more about themselves and their own wallets?
I stand by my statement. MAjority does rule.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Well and as the right comes up with silly new arguments and floods the airwaves with them, there's a bit of eb and flow while people buy the argument for a bit and then... realize they're being silly.
Look at how the hysteria whipped up by Ken Mehlman at the end of 2004 changed things... and now that change didn't last long.
Much like the vitriol of Prop8 in California and Question 1 in Maine gave mid 2008 a dent that was corrected within a year. Once 2011 rolled around the "nice" gay and lesbian celebrities like Ricky Martin and Doogie Howser and Wanda Sykes started coming out and talking about their husbands and wives and kids... that's when we saw a huge bump.
And now that Matt Bomber is taking the kids around, people can see exactly who they're voting against.
Support isn't going down based on the graph. The margin of error in the survey is +/- 3%. So a 3% difference isn't statistically significant and doesn't indicate a "trend".
Uh... ok, totally off topic but I produced a series of promo clips for FleshJack (the same company, the same product with a gay male target market) and yes, I have like about 20 in my studio that I used to give models when we were doing solo scenes. All the different colours and models they have.
Why... do you want one? (and no... not a "used" one. They're kinda like the flying beasts in Avatar... once it's bonded with a rider, they never give it up).
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I know that my family was ambivalent about marriage equality until I dragged them kicking and screaming into the new reality. Now they march in more pride parades than I do. They've also been lifelines and support system for MANY university students.
Most of my buddies from college were all various degrees of uncomfortable with knowing a gay person until they found out that I was... that changed a lot of minds. Even from places I've worked in the past... people have told me that once they saw us together and saw us as a "real couple" and not some nebulous concept of "changing the definition of a word" that it made a huge difference. The more of us that come out... the more the world changes.
I've always said to put a nice couple like Anderson and Ben or Ellen and Portia in front of people so they can see who they're voting against. That's how we're going to win this.
Well... and see the downright asinine arguments that we've seen in this thread.