Religion on the decline around the world

PJ_Soul

RW81233 wrote:

yeah hopped on late sorry for that....honestly as I've grown the most compelling religion for me is the Jewish religion. They still debate shit from their books (not down with doing the rituals and stuff but I still put up a tree and lights so wtf), and they still fight with one another about interpretations and what it all means. Still in then end they all come together. As for the book of Cathol (that's from a comedy set I saw once fuck I can't remember who did it - a british dude in drag pretty famous too), where I went to church it was noted when you weren't there and you got looks and questions for not going. I have a feeling some peoples' negative experiences stem from this treatment. This past year I hung out with my good friend's grad student who is pretty religious and he basically told me my experience was nowhere near his. He was encouraged to question and think differently and interpret the 'good book' in his own way. I'll bet that if that were my experience I'd have a different outlook on this stuff. I'll read the rest of the thread in the morning to catch up. Good luck this semester!

That's interesting that say that about Judaism, because I've actually said out loud that. I had to choose a religion to be a part of, I'd choose to be Jewish, and it is because they seem to question more and explore their faith more than other faiths tend to... of doesn't hurt that women have a more preferable status as far as I've noticed, which helps, as a woman. I haven't given it much thought, but that just struck me!

catefrances

PJ_Soul wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

yeah hopped on late sorry for that....honestly as I've grown the most compelling religion for me is the Jewish religion. They still debate shit from their books (not down with doing the rituals and stuff but I still put up a tree and lights so wtf), and they still fight with one another about interpretations and what it all means. Still in then end they all come together. As for the book of Cathol (that's from a comedy set I saw once fuck I can't remember who did it - a british dude in drag pretty famous too), where I went to church it was noted when you weren't there and you got looks and questions for not going. I have a feeling some peoples' negative experiences stem from this treatment. This past year I hung out with my good friend's grad student who is pretty religious and he basically told me my experience was nowhere near his. He was encouraged to question and think differently and interpret the 'good book' in his own way. I'll bet that if that were my experience I'd have a different outlook on this stuff. I'll read the rest of the thread in the morning to catch up. Good luck this semester!

That's interesting that say that about Judaism, because I've actually said out loud that. I had to choose a religion to be a part of, I'd choose to be Jewish, and it is because they seem to question more and explore their faith more than other faiths tend to... of doesn't hurt that women have a more preferable status as far as I've noticed, which helps, as a woman. I haven't given it much thought, but that just struck me!

do you wonder what would have to happen in your life for you to be choosing this/any religion?

peacefrompaul

PJ_Soul wrote:

That's interesting that say that about Judaism, because I've actually said out loud that. I had to choose a religion to be a part of, I'd choose to be Jewish, and it is because they seem to question more and explore their faith more than other faiths tend to... of doesn't hurt that women have a more preferable status as far as I've noticed, which helps, as a woman. I haven't given it much thought, but that just struck me!

Interesting... I'd choose Buddhism... but it does seem to be more of a philosophy. Discovery, question and reflection comes out of Buddhism more, at least in my opinion.

PJ_Soul

Jeanwah wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

And I am always understanding of those who find comfort or whatever else in their beliefs, assuming they don't get in the way of anyone else's beliefs. I'm not open minded about organized religion or how it works, but I am open minded about people and how they choose to live their lives.

Are you dismissive of spirituality as well as religion PJ_Soul? I honestly get this negative feel from your posts, as if you are not open minded to much of anything not only religious, but any sort of spirituality.

Nope, I'm all for spirituality, and am accepting of it in all forms. Too bad that's how I'm coming off because that's not how I am at all (in another post I talked about being perfect open to the connection between loving things, maybe an after life of some kind, the beauty of the world and how amazing the human imagination is... etc. And i feel a very deep connection with nature, and solidly believe in soul mates (both romantic and non-romantic). Maybe you missed that post? Perhaps it's my tendency to be very blunt that is throwing you? I assure you, I'm not negative. I think those who know me would say I'm one of the happiest and positive people they know. I was in an rely bad mood today though, due to some people being idiots at work. .. maybe that was just translating into my posts.

I do indeed, however, have an extremely negative view of organized religion. I do understand all the good that can stem from it, but that is nothing compared to what I think is negativese about it. There is a reason, though, why I always specifically say "organized religion" as opposed to just "religion".

hedonist

PJ_Soul wrote:

That's interesting that say that about Judaism, because I've actually said out loud that. I had to choose a religion to be a part of, I'd choose to be Jewish, and it is because they seem to question more and explore their faith more than other faiths tend to... of doesn't hurt that women have a more preferable status as far as I've noticed, which helps, as a woman. I haven't given it much thought, but that just struck me!

Yet you categorize them all/mostly? as cults. I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble following your thought processes on this (does it have to be said? not trying to attack).

edit - guess you were having a shit day too, so...no ill will here.

PJ_Soul

peacefrompaul wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

That's interesting that say that about Judaism, because I've actually said out loud that. I had to choose a religion to be a part of, I'd choose to be Jewish, and it is because they seem to question more and explore their faith more than other faiths tend to... of doesn't hurt that women have a more preferable status as far as I've noticed, which helps, as a woman. I haven't given it much thought, but that just struck me!

Interesting... I'd choose Buddhism... but it does seem to be more of a philosophy. Discovery, question and reflection comes out of Buddhism more, at least in my opinion.

I respect Buddhism a LOT. But I don't group it into religion really. As you say, it's a philosophy. A good one. But not something I could embrace fully... I love a good steak, and I get pleasure from killing mosquitoes. :oops:

catefrances

peacefrompaul wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

That's interesting that say that about Judaism, because I've actually said out loud that. I had to choose a religion to be a part of, I'd choose to be Jewish, and it is because they seem to question more and explore their faith more than other faiths tend to... of doesn't hurt that women have a more preferable status as far as I've noticed, which helps, as a woman. I haven't given it much thought, but that just struck me!

Interesting... I'd choose Buddhism... but it does seem to be more of a philosophy. Discovery, question and reflection comes out of Buddhism more, at least in my opinion.

youre right, buddhism is not a religion. it centres not on a God but on a system of philosophy and a code of morality. we can all attain buddhahood.

PJ_Soul

hedonist wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

That's interesting that say that about Judaism, because I've actually said out loud that. I had to choose a religion to be a part of, I'd choose to be Jewish, and it is because they seem to question more and explore their faith more than other faiths tend to... of doesn't hurt that women have a more preferable status as far as I've noticed, which helps, as a woman. I haven't given it much thought, but that just struck me!

Yet you categorize them all/mostly? as cults. I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble following your thought processes on this (does it have to be said? not trying to attack).

edit - guess you were having a shit day too, so...no ill will here.

Yeah, I do categorized them as cults... I meant if someone put a gun to my head and made me choose.

PJ_Soul

catefrances wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

yeah hopped on late sorry for that....honestly as I've grown the most compelling religion for me is the Jewish religion. They still debate shit from their books (not down with doing the rituals and stuff but I still put up a tree and lights so wtf), and they still fight with one another about interpretations and what it all means. Still in then end they all come together. As for the book of Cathol (that's from a comedy set I saw once fuck I can't remember who did it - a british dude in drag pretty famous too), where I went to church it was noted when you weren't there and you got looks and questions for not going. I have a feeling some peoples' negative experiences stem from this treatment. This past year I hung out with my good friend's grad student who is pretty religious and he basically told me my experience was nowhere near his. He was encouraged to question and think differently and interpret the 'good book' in his own way. I'll bet that if that were my experience I'd have a different outlook on this stuff. I'll read the rest of the thread in the morning to catch up. Good luck this semester!

That's interesting that say that about Judaism, because I've actually said out loud that. I had to choose a religion to be a part of, I'd choose to be Jewish, and it is because they seem to question more and explore their faith more than other faiths tend to... of doesn't hurt that women have a more preferable status as far as I've noticed, which helps, as a woman. I haven't given it much thought, but that just struck me!

do you wonder what would have to happen in your life for you to be choosing this/any religion?

Not really, because it would take God himself appearing before me and telling me what was what... and that's certainy not going to happen! . My atheism is as strong as anyone's religious belief, and is ajout as uikely to be broken as anyone's deep faith in god. Contrary to what some assume, it is not a passive belief system.

catefrances

PJ_Soul wrote:

hedonist wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

That's interesting that say that about Judaism, because I've actually said out loud that. I had to choose a religion to be a part of, I'd choose to be Jewish, and it is because they seem to question more and explore their faith more than other faiths tend to... of doesn't hurt that women have a more preferable status as far as I've noticed, which helps, as a woman. I haven't given it much thought, but that just struck me!

Yet you categorize them all/mostly? as cults. I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble following your thought processes on this (does it have to be said? not trying to attack).

edit - guess you were having a shit day too, so...no ill will here.

Yeah, I do categorized them as cults... I meant if someone put a gun to my head and made me choose.

id die an atheist.

hedonist

PJ_Soul wrote:

hedonist wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

That's interesting that say that about Judaism, because I've actually said out loud that. I had to choose a religion to be a part of, I'd choose to be Jewish, and it is because they seem to question more and explore their faith more than other faiths tend to... of doesn't hurt that women have a more preferable status as far as I've noticed, which helps, as a woman. I haven't given it much thought, but that just struck me!

Yet you categorize them all/mostly? as cults. I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble following your thought processes on this (does it have to be said? not trying to attack).

edit - guess you were having a shit day too, so...no ill will here.

Yeah, I do categorized them as cults... I meant if someone put a gun to my head and made me choose.

OK - I'm just not getting your point then. Figured I'd give it a shot.

PJ_Soul

catefrances wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

hedonist wrote:

Yet you categorize them all/mostly? as cults. I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble following your thought processes on this (does it have to be said? not trying to attack).

edit - guess you were having a shit day too, so...no ill will here.

Yeah, I do categorized them as cults... I meant if someone put a gun to my head and made me choose.

id die an atheist.

I know what you mean. But I'd declare a religion if it meant living... shhh, don't tell anyone - I still wouldn't believe in god. :think: maybe I wouldn't make a good Jew.

catefrances

PJ_Soul wrote:

I know what you mean. But I'd declare a religion if it meant living... shhh, don't tell anyone - I still wouldn't believe in god. :think: maybe I wouldn't make a good Jew.

id rather die true to myself than fake a religious affiliation. according to dante, the deceivers are closer to the pit of hell than the murderers.

PJ_Soul

catefrances wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

I know what you mean. But I'd declare a religion if it meant living... shhh, don't tell anyone - I still wouldn't believe in god. :think: maybe I wouldn't make a good Jew.

id rather die true to myself than fake a religious affiliation. according to dante, the deceivers are closer to the pit of hell than the murderers.

Fair enough. If I'd actually been a Jew in Germany in 1942, i would have tried to pretend otherwise and remained. a Jew in my heart as long as I had to. Same goes with my atheism. That's staying true to myself, without bothering to make a point for the benefit of others. I'm an atheist only for myself. I wouldn't care if others thought otherwise if it meant not being murdered. I'm happy to declare my beliefs, but the declaration isn't what defines them. But that's just me. I respect your thinking on the matter..... uh, let's hope it doesn't come to such such a decision! . Plus, since I don't believe in hell, I'm not too worried about what Dante said in that one!
Ps- pls excuse all the errors in my posts... I'm on a smartphone and have had a bottle of wine to soothe my shit-ass day!

catefrances

PJ_Soul wrote:

catefrances wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

I know what you mean. But I'd declare a religion if it meant living... shhh, don't tell anyone - I still wouldn't believe in god. :think: maybe I wouldn't make a good Jew.

id rather die true to myself than fake a religious affiliation. according to dante, the deceivers are closer to the pit of hell than the murderers.

Fair enough. If I'd actually been a Jew in Germany in 1942, i would have tried to pretend otherwise and remained. a Jew in my heart as long as I had to. Same goes with my atheism. That's staying true to myself, without bothering to make a point for the benefit of others. I'm an atheist only for myself. I wouldn't care if others thought otherwise if it meant not being murdered. I'm happy to declare my beliefs, but the declaration isn't what defines them. But that's just me..... uh, let's hope it doesn't come to such such a decision! . Plus, since I don't believe in hell, I'm not too worried about what Dante said in that one!
Ps- pls excuse my posts... I'm on a smartphone and have had a bottle of wine to soothe my shit-ass day!

i dont believe in hell either but dante is an interesting read.

PJ_Soul

catefrances wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

catefrances wrote:

id rather die true to myself than fake a religious affiliation. according to dante, the deceivers are closer to the pit of hell than the murderers.

Fair enough. If I'd actually been a Jew in Germany in 1942, i would have tried to pretend otherwise and remained. a Jew in my heart as long as I had to. Same goes with my atheism. That's staying true to myself, without bothering to make a point for the benefit of others. I'm an atheist only for myself. I wouldn't care if others thought otherwise if it meant not being murdered. I'm happy to declare my beliefs, but the declaration isn't what defines them. But that's just me..... uh, let's hope it doesn't come to such such a decision! . Plus, since I don't believe in hell, I'm not too worried about what Dante said in that one!
Ps- pls excuse my posts... I'm on a smartphone and have had a bottle of wine to soothe my shit-ass day!

i dont believe in hell either but dante is an interesting read.

Agreed! ... I edited my post while you posted this btw.

catefrances

PJ_Soul wrote:

Fair enough. If I'd actually been a Jew in Germany in 1942, i would have tried to pretend otherwise and remained. a Jew in my heart as long as I had to. Same goes with my atheism. That's staying true to myself, without bothering to make a point for the benefit of others. I'm an atheist only for myself. I wouldn't care if others thought otherwise if it meant not being murdered. I'm happy to declare my beliefs, but the declaration isn't what defines them. But that's just me..... uh, let's hope it doesn't come to such such a decision! . Plus, since I don't believe in hell, I'm not too worried about what Dante said in that one!
Ps- pls excuse my posts... I'm on a smartphone and have had a bottle of wine to soothe my shit-ass day!

it wasnt just about not declaring as a jew. if there was any doubt, they measured your features to determine if you were a jew or not... so merely declaring for catholicism or whatever woudntve necessarily kept you out of the gas chamber. no matter how often or deep i think about the shoah, my brain will never stop being boggled by the depths of mankinds depravity... and his capability for such.

brianlux

I believe in the God of Sleep. My prayer is, "Oh Lord of Sleep, why hast though forsaken me? I beseech ye to bestow your blessing on my poor little brain tonight. Amen"

catefrances

brianlux wrote:

I believe in the God of Sleep. My prayer is, "Oh Lord of Sleep, why hast though forsaken me? I beseech ye to bestow your blessing on my poor little brain tonight. Amen"

mmm morpheus.

PJ_Soul

catefrances wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Fair enough. If I'd actually been a Jew in Germany in 1942, i would have tried to pretend otherwise and remained. a Jew in my heart as long as I had to. Same goes with my atheism. That's staying true to myself, without bothering to make a point for the benefit of others. I'm an atheist only for myself. I wouldn't care if others thought otherwise if it meant not being murdered. I'm happy to declare my beliefs, but the declaration isn't what defines them. But that's just me..... uh, let's hope it doesn't come to such such a decision! . Plus, since I don't believe in hell, I'm not too worried about what Dante said in that one!
Ps- pls excuse my posts... I'm on a smartphone and have had a bottle of wine to soothe my shit-ass day!

it wasnt just about not declaring as a jew. if there was any doubt, they measured your features to determine if you were a jew or not... so merely declaring for catholicism or whatever woudntve necessarily kept you out of the gas chamber. no matter how often or deep i think about the shoah, my brain will never stop being boggled by the depths of mankinds depravity... and his capability for such.

That is for sure. Boggles the mind is exactly how I would out it too. I think that's why Schindler's list is my favorite movie. I want to be emotionally impacted by a movie, and that shit impacts me emotionally like nothing else. Not to trivialize the reality of it with a movie reference.. just sayin'.

I have a big shnozz too. I would have been screwed ... :?