Penn State

F Me In The Brain

Cliffy, good thoughts and I feel for you having 'your' university shit on due to the action of a handful of devils. I do hope that there is a lesson taken from this and that people wont try to cover up horrid stuff like this in the future.
(Unfortunately, human nature being what it is....there are tons of things covered up every day I am sure.)

JK_Livin

Nicely done.

Cliffy6745 wrote:

I have been thinking for a while about how to respond to all of this...and am still not really sure now. This is incredibly long, something I usually talk shit about.

The report today brought very little new incriminating evidence on Paterno, it seems; more on the culture of Penn State as a whole, which he obviously had a major part of and you could say built. The most damning and troubling new information, to me, is that he knew about the 1998 issue. That is very bad. None of the other stuff is new. I will say, Joe did a hell of a job covering himself, intentionally or not. The other three are quoted all over the place in emails and everything, but his name just comes up in third party accounts. If Curley ever decides to come clean, I am sure he has a hell of a story. I am not minimizing anything that came out, just pointing out that none of it is really new to today.

I haven’t been part of any Paterno discussion since I intentionally gave it up a while back, but I will say that obviously Paterno played some part in covering this up and not letting it get out. How big of a role he played, only a few people know but he obviously knew for a long time what was going on and it was clearly covered up for the sake of the program and embarrassment. Whether it was at his direction or others doing it for him and the program, it obviously doesn’t really matter. It’s not a matter of him reporting it up the chain of command and letting it go as many (including myself) said when it came out.

I am not going to try to defend Paterno and this shouldn’t be taken that way. What he did is indefensible and disgusting. He obviously shouldn’t have worried about his legacy and done what was right, he didn’t and that is unacceptable. He failed to do what he preached when it mattered most.

To me, as someone who has had Penn State as part of their life for as long as they can remember, and have thought about all of this quite a bit over the past 6 months or whatever, I am going to look at it in two ways. I am going to remember Paterno for the good he did and the university he built and I am going to remember him for this. He helped thousands of kids become better people but also allowed kids to be hurt in a horrific way. Unfortunately, there are two sides to the man and hopefully every player that played for him, or every student/kid who looked up to him can learn from the situation. Do what is best/right for the situation, not what is best for you. There is no doubt in my mind that Paterno failed when it mattered most which lead to horrific consequences, but that does not completely erase so much good that was done of the first 33 years. Both need to be remembered and will be.

Paterno is not going to be wiped from the University and doing so would be a fool’s errand. You can take his statue down or their name from the library, but he will never be gone. Personally, I don’t give a shit what happens to Penn State football in the immediate future but I will be there when they do play. I grew up going to Penn State games, there is nothing like tailgating in the grass parking lots on a fall Saturday afternoon with family and friends. We had nothing to do with this so when it comes back, we will be there, while probably slightly more subdued for now.

Sandusky is in jail forever, Curley and Schultz may not be far behind and Paterno is dead. My hope is that everyone can learn from this situation. While it may seem hypocritical, I would say, hopefully people still believe in success with honor, even if the man who preached it didn’t not carry through with his mantra when it mattered most. Success with Honor, especially when it matters most.

JK_Livin

The scary thing is that if they would cover this up, what else was swept under the rug? Unfortunately the Penn State of today will pay for the Penn State from 14 years ago.

norm

cliffy i totally understand for where you come from...i held off on critizing paterno until this report was released hoping that he really didn't know how severe sandusky's actions were...but he did know...fully

the way i see, at psu, the buck ended at paterno...the football program he built made the university a powerhouse in collegiate athletics which helped it grow into a first class university...so everyone from the BoT on down deferred to what joe wanted...and joe wanted to protect his friend jerry...so they did...for 14 years...that can't be looked over...i've lost any respect i had for the man and anyone that will defend him at all

Flagg

Death Penalty for the football program - immediately. If the NCAA has any remaining credibility, they make this happen effective immediately.

Cliffy6745

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Cliffy, nice write up. I know Joe did some good, but I will never see that in the foreground again. What's up front is the nature of the crime that occurred under his watch and the things that could've been done.

Bottom line is: Even if Joe had speculation and no hard fact of what was going on, he should’ve investigated and saved those boys. He’s a piece of shit for letting this go.

There's no worse crime than when a victim is a child of a sexual abuse case. These children can be made to believe it is their own fault. The psychological implications are unfathomable. Their lives are forever infected by this...and it could've been avoided.

And that is perfectly fine, I expect most won't and I don't disagree for the most part. What happened is absolutely horrific and could have been stopped if not for self-preservation. It's sick.

norm

Penn State should shut down football program

Shut it down. No more football at Penn State. Not for a while, anyway. And please don’t wait to be sanctioned by the NCAA, which moves at a glacial pace.

Now there can be no doubt. The sycophants, enablers, and excuse-makers can go away and stay away. The Penn State Board of Trustees can finally do the right thing and kill the school’s football program. Effective immediately. Football can come back to State College, Pa., someday. Not now.

This is not a hard decision anymore. Nor is it radical. It’s the decent thing to do, after a decade and a half of institutional indecency.

Please. No weeping for the players and coaches who are at Penn State now. We know they did nothing wrong. But they can transfer. Coaches can get jobs at other schools.

Football simply cannot go on after what we heard Thursday from former FBI director Louis Freeh.

Hired by Penn State’s Board of Trustees in the wake of the Jerry Sandusky sex abuse scandal, Freeh concluded that for more than a decade there was total disregard for the safety and well-being of children/victims by the most powerful men at Penn State. And that includes the fabled Joe Paterno.

Penn State needs to give its own football program the death penalty. The pompous NCAA, ever-reluctant to sanction big-revenue, elite members, will eventually figure out what to do about the obvious lack of institutional control in State College, Pa. The Big Ten could also step forward in the wake of Thursday’s disclosures. In the meantime, Penn State needs to stop the nonsense of attempting to play its 2012 season.

The games cannot go on. Playing football this fall would be just another demonstration that the vaunted football program is more important than protecting innocent children. Happy Valley needs some silent Saturdays to ponder how this happened and to make sure nothing like it could ever happen again.

As of this moment, the Nittany Lions are scheduled to open at home against Ohio Sept. 1 at noon. Two weeks later, the United States Naval Academy team is slated to play at Penn State. It’s “Military Appreciation Day.’’ Disgusting. If Penn State doesn’t do the right thing, the Naval Academy should refuse to send its team to State College.

The NCAA, quick to sanction phone calls to recruits or booster-paid tattoos, says Penn State needs to address four key questions regarding institutional control and ethics policies. The collegiate sports governing body says Penn State’s response will help decide what action needs to be taken.

There wasn’t much ambiguity in Freeh’s 267-page report, which was compiled over eight months and included interviews with 430 current or former college employees.

“In order to avoid the consequences of bad publicity, the most powerful leaders at the university . . . repeatedly concealed critical facts relating to Sandusky’s child abuse.’’

The four men cited are former school president Graham B. Spanier, former athletic director Tim Curley, former school vice president Gary Schultz, and the late coach Paterno.

The facts are the facts. With their appalling inaction, grounded in the belief that they were saving football from disgrace, these men allowed child rapes to go undetected and unreported for 14 years after they were first alerted of Sandusky’s crimes. They concealed facts and failed to go to authorities to protect the football program from “bad publicity.’’ They allowed rapes to continue in order to preserve King Football.

Joe Pa brought Penn State 409 wins, five undefeated seasons and two national championships. He put the school on the map and was honored with a statue which stands outside Beaver Stadium. Today it stands as a monument to the worst scandal in the history of college sports. The statue needs to come down.

According to USA Today, donations to Penn State are on the rise since the news of the scandal broke last year. More than 190,000 contributors have donated $209 million, which represents the second-best year in school history. Way to rally. Ya-hoo.

Penn State is going to need a lot of money to settle the lawsuits certain to follow Thursday’s report. Shutting down football for a few years will be another financial hit. No football means no TV money and a drop in alumni pledges.

Too bad. The Nittany Lions need to close shop for a while. No tailgating. No boola-boola. No Homecoming game. No Senior Day. There is no price tag to measure an institution’s lost soul.

http://bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/07/1 ... ml?camp=fb

RKCNDY

What happens to the Catholic priests that molest/abuse boys?

The priests have 'done so much good' for the church and all, but they also hurt the ones that trusted them the most.

Are they forgiven? Isn't that what confession is about? Confess your sins and all is forgiven?

I feel like I'm missing something here...

F Me In The Brain

Flagg wrote:

Death Penalty for the football program - immediately. If the NCAA has any remaining credibility, they make this happen effective immediately.

If my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle.

NCAA = total joke

JK_Livin

Here is a good article on the bigger picture.
http://t.co/BXP075Gm

Cliffy6745

norm wrote:

cliffy i totally understand for where you come from...i held off on critizing paterno until this report was released hoping that he really didn't know how severe sandusky's actions were...but he did know...fully

the way i see, at psu, the buck ended at paterno...the football program he built made the university a powerhouse in collegiate athletics which helped it grow into a first class university...so everyone from the BoT on down deferred to what joe wanted...and joe wanted to protect his friend jerry...so they did...for 14 years...that can't be looked over...i've lost any respect i had for the man and anyone that will defend him at all

I don't disagree and am not defending his actions in this situation in the least. I would disagree that Paterno was protecting his friend and would argue he was protecting himself and what he built, but I guess that's irrelevant. I'm not defending him in this situation in the least and am not overlooking it at all. Some can argue that the horrible stuff outweighs the good or the good stuff outweighs the bad. I don't really give a shit what outweighs what. I will just see him as doing a lot of great and a lot of horrifically bad. He helped kids like Adam Talifero become men and he contributed to destroying kids lives. I have no problem with people hating him, and expect most will, I am just posting how I feel a reasonable person with ties to the school should look at the situation. There is no defense for what he did.

JonnyPistachio

RKCNDY wrote:

What happens to the Catholic priests that molest/abuse boys?

The priests have 'done so much good' for the church and all, but they also hurt the ones that trusted them the most.

Are they forgiven? Isn't that what confession is about? Confess your sins and all is forgiven?

I feel like I'm missing something here...

Oh God, those cases are even worse. Don't those priests know how hot it is in hell and the devil's poker is mostly on the uncomfortable side?

norm

Cliffy6745 wrote:

norm wrote:

cliffy i totally understand for where you come from...i held off on critizing paterno until this report was released hoping that he really didn't know how severe sandusky's actions were...but he did know...fully

the way i see, at psu, the buck ended at paterno...the football program he built made the university a powerhouse in collegiate athletics which helped it grow into a first class university...so everyone from the BoT on down deferred to what joe wanted...and joe wanted to protect his friend jerry...so they did...for 14 years...that can't be looked over...i've lost any respect i had for the man and anyone that will defend him at all

I don't disagree and am not defending his actions in this situation in the least. I would disagree that Paterno was protecting his friend and would argue he was protecting himself and what he built, but I guess that's irrelevant. I'm not defending him in this situation in the least and am not overlooking it at all. Some can argue that the horrible stuff outweighs the good or the good stuff outweighs the bad. I don't really give a shit what outweighs what. I will just see him as doing a lot of great and a lot of horrifically bad. He helped kids like Adam Talifero become men and he contributed to destroying kids lives. I have no problem with people hating him, and expect most will, I am just posting how I feel a reasonable person with ties to the school should look at the situation. There is no defense for what he did.

sorry cliff i didn't mean to imply you were defending him...i know you're not...i was speaking to the larger psu alums that are still trying to parse the info and deflect any blame toward paterno...lavarr arington comes to mind

joe did a lot of good and helped a lot of young men become strong adults through the football program...but it seems to me that's the only young men he cared about...that he (and the bot) allowed sandusky to continue raping boys right under their noses is something that can't be taken away when talking about legacies

Cliffy6745

norm wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

norm wrote:

cliffy i totally understand for where you come from...i held off on critizing paterno until this report was released hoping that he really didn't know how severe sandusky's actions were...but he did know...fully

the way i see, at psu, the buck ended at paterno...the football program he built made the university a powerhouse in collegiate athletics which helped it grow into a first class university...so everyone from the BoT on down deferred to what joe wanted...and joe wanted to protect his friend jerry...so they did...for 14 years...that can't be looked over...i've lost any respect i had for the man and anyone that will defend him at all

I don't disagree and am not defending his actions in this situation in the least. I would disagree that Paterno was protecting his friend and would argue he was protecting himself and what he built, but I guess that's irrelevant. I'm not defending him in this situation in the least and am not overlooking it at all. Some can argue that the horrible stuff outweighs the good or the good stuff outweighs the bad. I don't really give a shit what outweighs what. I will just see him as doing a lot of great and a lot of horrifically bad. He helped kids like Adam Talifero become men and he contributed to destroying kids lives. I have no problem with people hating him, and expect most will, I am just posting how I feel a reasonable person with ties to the school should look at the situation. There is no defense for what he did.

sorry cliff i didn't mean to imply you were defending him...i know you're not...i was speaking to the larger psu alums that are still trying to parse the info and deflect any blame toward paterno...lavarr arington comes to mind

joe did a lot of good and helped a lot of young men become strong adults through the football program...but it seems to me that's the only young men he cared about...that he (and the bot) allowed sandusky to continue raping boys right under their noses is something that can't be taken away when talking about legacies

No worries, man. I just wanted to make it clear.

Yeah, it seems like you're probably right with his priorities. This is certainly part of his legacy and should be.

Cliffy6745

I will comment that the only thing I agree with the larger alum on is that Tom Corbett has gotten off scott free.

chadwick

weak people with nothing on the inside make me fucking ill

norm

Joe Paterno, at the end, showed more interest in his legacy than Sandusky’s victims

Joe Paterno was a liar, there’s no doubt about that now. He was also a cover-up artist. If the Freeh Report is correct in its summary of the Penn State child molestation scandal, the public Paterno of the last few years was a work of fiction. In his place is a hubristic, indictable hypocrite.

In the last interview before his death, Paterno insisted as strenuously as a dying man could that he had absolutely no knowledge of a 1998 police inquiry into child molestation accusations against his assistant coach Jerry Sandusky. This has always been the critical point in assessing whether Paterno and other Penn State leaders enabled Sandusky’s crimes.

If Paterno knew about ’98, then he wasn’t some aging granddad who was deceived, but a canny and unfeeling power broker who put protecting his reputation ahead of protecting children.

If he knew about ’98, then he understood the import of graduate assistant Mike McQueary’s distraught account in 2001 that he witnessed Sandusky assaulting a boy in the Penn State showers.

If he knew about ’98, then he also perjured himself before a grand jury.

Guilty.

Paterno didn’t always give lucid answers in his final interview conducted with the Washington Post three days before his death, but on this point he was categorical and clear as a bell. He pled total, lying ignorance of the ’98 investigation into a local mother’s claim Sandusky had groped her son in the shower at the football building. How could Paterno have no knowledge of this, I asked him?

“Nobody knew,” he said.

Everybody knew.

Never heard a rumor?

“I never heard a thing,” he said.

He heard everything.

Not a whisper? How is that possible?

“If Jerry’s guilty, nobody found out til after several incidents.”

Paterno’s account of himself is flatly contradicted in damning detail by ex FBI-director Louis Freeh’s report. In a news conference Thursday Freeh charged that Paterno, along with athletic director Tim Curley, university president Graham Spanier and vice president Gary Schultz, engaged in a cover-up, “an active agreement of concealment.”

Paterno was not only aware of the ’98 investigation but followed it “closely” according to Freeh. As did the entire leadership of Penn State. E-mails and confidential notes by Schultz about the progress of the inquiry prove it. “Behavior – at best inappropriate @ worst sexual improprieties,” Schultz wrote. “At min – Poor Judgment.” Schultz also wrote, “Is this opening of pandora’s box?” and “Other children?”

A May 5, 1998 e-mail from Curley to Schultz and Spanier was titled “Joe Paterno” and it says, “I have touched base with the coach. Keep us posted. Thanks.”

A second e-mail dated May 13 1998 from Curley to Schultz is titled “Jerry” and it says, “Anything new is this department? Coach is anxious to know where it stands.”

There is only one aspect in which the Freeh report does not totally destroy Paterno’s pretension of honesty. It finds no connection between the ’98 investigation and Sandusky’s resignation from Paterno’s staff in ’99. The report also suggests that Paterno genuinely believed the police had found no evidence of a crime.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/co ... story.html

chadwick

again i gotta say i wonder what the ladies know; as in mrs. paterno & mrs sandusky. that mrs. sandusky is one stupid fucking broad, yes/no? that mrs. paterno sure enjoys the fame & fortune, yes/no?

couple a blind old naive stupid ass bats if ya ask me

oona left

chadwick wrote:

again i gotta say i wonder what the ladies know; as in mrs. paterno & mrs sandusky. that mrs. sandusky is one stupid fucking broad, yes/no? that mrs. paterno sure enjoys the fame & fortune, yes/no?

couple a blind old naive stupid ass bats if ya ask me

I cannot imagine that Sandusky's wife did NOT know. Is she going to be charged as an accessory, or will the state just not even bother?

I read quite a bit after the report was released this morning. It's just unbelievably disgusting. Holy shit.

I did notice that the guy at work who was SO certain a month ago that Joe Paterno "did nothing wrong" was unusually quiet today. Huh, wonder why.

chadwick

oona left wrote:

chadwick wrote:

again i gotta say i wonder what the ladies know; as in mrs. paterno & mrs sandusky. that mrs. sandusky is one stupid fucking broad, yes/no? that mrs. paterno sure enjoys the fame & fortune, yes/no?

couple a blind old naive stupid ass bats if ya ask me

I cannot imagine that Sandusky's wife did NOT know. Is she going to be charged as an accessory, or will the state just not even bother?

I read quite a bit after the report was released this morning. It's just unbelievably disgusting. Holy shit.

I did notice that the guy at work who was SO certain a month ago that Joe Paterno "did nothing wrong" was unusually quiet today. Huh, wonder why.

yeah they are all fucking stupid and blind as shit. not one of them has a back bone present. i cannot imagine the under the rug sweeping that has taken place under joe pa's & others' noses.
mrs. sandusky is just as much a monster as her bunk ass husband. i see no real reason why she shouldn't be jailed her own damn self. mrs. paterno & sons should be picking up debris after & during football games.

everyone is so chicken shit over there in joepa land that it is ridiculous. the monster that is sandusky should have been taken out with a bullet a long fucking time ago. when sandusky finally dies it will be a warmer, much more enjoyable world with a happier sky above us. the grass will actually be greener and songbirds will sing better tweets than before. that is how dark, sick & twisted that scumbag is.

i am looking forward to his passing.