best and worse USA presidents

riotgrl

mikepegg44 wrote:

brianlux wrote:

I don't understand the hatred for Jimmy Carter. I think he was one of our greatest presidents because he was one of the most honest. He was hated because Americans often don't like to hear the truth.

An example of what I mean is highlighted here by writer Andrew Bacevich who had this to say about Carter in an interview with Bill Moyers:

"ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, this is the so-called Malaise Speech, even though he never used the word "malaise" in the text to the address. It's a very powerful speech, I think, because President Carter says in that speech, oil, our dependence on oil, poses a looming threat to the country. If we act now, we may be able to fix this problem. If we don't act now, we're headed down a path in which not only will we become increasingly dependent upon foreign oil, but we will have opted for a false model of freedom. A freedom of materialism, a freedom of self-indulgence, a freedom of collective recklessness. And what the President was saying at the time was, we need to think about what we mean by freedom. We need to choose a definition of freedom which is anchored in truth, and the way to manifest that choice, is by addressing our energy problem.

He had a profound understanding of the dilemma facing the country in the post Vietnam period. And of course, he was completely hooted, derided, disregarded."

(For those of you who believe this to be liberal inanity, I should point out that Bacevich is a well respected conservative.)

Stagflation. tough to be considered a good president when you sit over a time of stagnant business, high unemployment, disproportionate rise in the cost of living, and increased government spending which didn't do much to combat the problem. Hmmm, sounds familiar.

But the US had been in an economic cycle of unsustainable growth since the 1950s and I would actually blame various presidents (unemployment was at about 12% during 1974 under Nixon/Ford and at about 13% by the time Carter left office) but more importantly the Federal Reserve for at least part of the problems that had been brewing for a while. Presidents always inherit problems from their predecessors and must do the best they can with the good and bad they are given. Carter attempted to do what he could to stabilize the economy but most measures take time to implement (having to work with Congress who are the ones that actually make law not the President) and more time to see results. I like Carter and think he was a genuinely good man who tried to do good but he was not a politician and was not willing to play the game. I think that is just one of the many reasons I like to read his books and give credence to many of his beliefs because he actually has principles that he lives by. I've always liked his stance on alternative energy sources even though he was laughed out of office over things like putting solar panels on the White House. What if we had implemented some of those policies? While he will never be remembered as a great president, he has certainly earned my respect.

cincybearcat

VivaPalestina wrote:

Andrew Johnson was an Indian Killer, Woodrow Wilson put feminists in jail for wanting to vote. If I were an Indian or feminist those would be my worst, i guess its perspective.

Right and if you are deathly allergic to peanuts, then Carter is your worst.

mikepegg44

riotgrl wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

brianlux wrote:

I don't understand the hatred for Jimmy Carter. I think he was one of our greatest presidents because he was one of the most honest. He was hated because Americans often don't like to hear the truth.

An example of what I mean is highlighted here by writer Andrew Bacevich who had this to say about Carter in an interview with Bill Moyers:

"ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, this is the so-called Malaise Speech, even though he never used the word "malaise" in the text to the address. It's a very powerful speech, I think, because President Carter says in that speech, oil, our dependence on oil, poses a looming threat to the country. If we act now, we may be able to fix this problem. If we don't act now, we're headed down a path in which not only will we become increasingly dependent upon foreign oil, but we will have opted for a false model of freedom. A freedom of materialism, a freedom of self-indulgence, a freedom of collective recklessness. And what the President was saying at the time was, we need to think about what we mean by freedom. We need to choose a definition of freedom which is anchored in truth, and the way to manifest that choice, is by addressing our energy problem.

He had a profound understanding of the dilemma facing the country in the post Vietnam period. And of course, he was completely hooted, derided, disregarded."

(For those of you who believe this to be liberal inanity, I should point out that Bacevich is a well respected conservative.)

Stagflation. tough to be considered a good president when you sit over a time of stagnant business, high unemployment, disproportionate rise in the cost of living, and increased government spending which didn't do much to combat the problem. Hmmm, sounds familiar.

But the US had been in an economic cycle of unsustainable growth since the 1950s and I would actually blame various presidents (unemployment was at about 12% during 1974 under Nixon/Ford and at about 13% by the time Carter left office) but more importantly the Federal Reserve for at least part of the problems that had been brewing for a while. Presidents always inherit problems from their predecessors and must do the best they can with the good and bad they are given. Carter attempted to do what he could to stabilize the economy but most measures take time to implement (having to work with Congress who are the ones that actually make law not the President) and more time to see results. I like Carter and think he was a genuinely good man who tried to do good but he was not a politician and was not willing to play the game. I think that is just one of the many reasons I like to read his books and give credence to many of his beliefs because he actually has principles that he lives by. I've always liked his stance on alternative energy sources even though he was laughed out of office over things like putting solar panels on the White House. What if we had implemented some of those policies? While he will never be remembered as a great president, he has certainly earned my respect.

This is politics, time to work isn't something we give most of our programs. But you said it yourself, He may have had ideas, but they didn't work and some didn't get implemented. You cannot be judged by what you wanted to do, you can only be judged by the job you did. He is a good person, but that doesn't always translate into a successful politician.

DS1119

I like George Washington because he never told a lie.

gimmesometruth27

VivaPalestina wrote:

Andrew Johnson was an Indian Killer, Woodrow Wilson put feminists in jail for wanting to vote. If I were an Indian or feminist those would be my worst, i guess its perspective.

There was mention of Carter as a worst because of the hostage crisis. I saw a docu filmed 6 years ago where one of those freed hostages is near tears thanking Carter for his life.

rocky sickman, former hostage, lived a town over from me when i was a kid. i had seem him praise carter publicly one time as well.

gimmesometruth27

by the way, reagan belongs on my personal list of worst presidents.

brianlux

mikepegg44 wrote:

This is politics, time to work isn't something we give most of our programs. But you said it yourself, He may have had ideas, but they didn't work and some didn't get implemented. You cannot be judged by what you wanted to do, you can only be judged by the job you did. He is a good person, but that doesn't always translate into a successful politician.

Thank you for at least recognizing that. Both my folks worked with Habitat for Humanity in their retirement and the saw many lives made better through his and Rosalynn's efforts.

I would still assert that if so many Americans at the time of his presidency were not in a state of denial he would be much better recognized for his efforts in his presidency. As a nation, we didn't want someone to spoil the party with reality. The idea of energy conservation was just beginning to become important. Carter warned us of the coming difficulties but as a nation we didn't want to hear it. A good argument could be made for some of Carter's short comings as a politician- backing down from confrontation on occasion, lack of charisma and swagger, appearing to be indecisive and ineffective at times. But I don't see these as reasons for listing him as one of our worst presidents. He cared a great deal about his job and the country and put a lot of heart into his efforts. Surely we've had much worse.

riotgrl

brianlux wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

This is politics, time to work isn't something we give most of our programs. But you said it yourself, He may have had ideas, but they didn't work and some didn't get implemented. You cannot be judged by what you wanted to do, you can only be judged by the job you did. He is a good person, but that doesn't always translate into a successful politician.

Thank you for at least recognizing that. Both my folks worked with Habitat for Humanity in their retirement and the saw many lives made better through his and Rosalynn's efforts.

I would still assert that if so many Americans at the time of his presidency were not in a state of denial he would be much better recognized for his efforts in his presidency. As a nation, we didn't want someone to spoil the party with reality. The idea of energy conservation was just beginning to become important. Carter warned us of the coming difficulties but as a nation we didn't want to hear it. A good argument could be made for some of Carter's short comings as a politician- backing down from confrontation on occasion, lack of charisma and swagger, appearing to be indecisive and ineffective at times. But I don't see these as reasons for listing him as one of our worst presidents. He cared a great deal about his job and the country and put a lot of heart into his efforts. Surely we've had much worse.

brianlux, I think that is exactly how I see Carter as well. He backed down when he shouldn't have which made him seem weak and ineffective. Other presidents who came later (and before) made horrible decisions but they did it with such staggering confidence that the American public took it as the best course of action. And certainly history has proven that some of those decisions were the absolute worst decisions!

Now, if we want to make a case for truly bad presidents, I would argue that several of the presidents in office prior to the Civil War were in no way willing to bite the bullet and take on slavery and states rights issues when they should have. James Buchanan refused to do anything that even resembled confrontation and Franklin Pierce continued to expand the country (manifest destiny, anybody?) which just allowed the entrance of more slave states which gave the Southern states more leverage in Congress. Those presidents did nothing, or actually encouraged, a civil war that divided our country. Personally, I think you can still see the ramifications of the Civil War being played out today - poor race relations, persistent housing/educational segregation, economic inequality, and the South still lags behind in almost every category. I don't know if those things would be drastically different today but damn it would have been nice to have had a chance to find out.

riotgrl

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

by the way, reagan belongs on my personal list of worst presidents.

I don't think Reagan is the worst but I very much dislike that he gets credit for "fixing" a lot of things in the 1980s that weren't necessarily so. For example, Reagan always gets the credit for releasing the Iranian hostages when in actuality the Iranians just held them until Reagan's inauguration day so Carter wouldn't get the credit. However, in his favor, Reagan did send Carter to greet them at the airport and welcome them back - I don't like Reagan but that is a classy gesture. Most presidents are neither all good nor all bad although I still hate Bush II with a passion! Might be a long while before I can forgive some of his mistakes :nono:

Juan Godoy

amazing all the comments.. thanks guy!! so far so good..
The only surprise i had until here is that i thought W. Bush it would be more hated than this, just my opinion

thanks, keep on giving you opinion!

riotgrl

Just for fun, I ran across this article from NPR about George Washington's expenses!

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/07/02/155570245/on-july-4-1776-george-washington-bought-a-broom?utm_source=fp&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20120702

Jason P

William Henry Harrison should get honorary mention. His biggest decision was to give a two hour inaugural speech on a cold wet day without a jacket. He was dead of pneumonia 30 days later and blew the Whig party's one big chance.

JonnyPistachio

Juan Godoy wrote:

amazing all the comments.. thanks guy!! so far so good..
The only surprise i had until here is that i thought W. Bush it would be more hated than this, just my opinion

thanks, keep on giving you opinion!

I just dont have too much good to say in terms of presidents, so I was staying out of posting in this thread (great read though)...but I'll toss my vote in for Bush II being an all out buffoon and an embarrassment to the USA.

Go Beavers

Juan Godoy wrote:

amazing all the comments.. thanks guy!! so far so good..
The only surprise i had until here is that i thought W. Bush it would be more hated than this, just my opinion

thanks, keep on giving you opinion!

Plenty of hate for G.W., maybe we're just being restrained.

You often see Presidents divided into 'modern day' presidents and the old timers. Maybe due to opinion based on experiences vs the old ones being filtered through historians.

pandora

this is one of my favorite threads ever... great info ... funny too

I like them all, something likable about each one and it's good to keep a sense of humor
when it comes to our Presidents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9L2rq3w ... re=related

Miss Nancy my favorite First Lady

peacefrompaul

Juan Godoy wrote:

amazing all the comments.. thanks guy!! so far so good..
The only surprise i had until here is that i thought W. Bush it would be more hated than this, just my opinion

thanks, keep on giving you opinion!

Oh, we can do a little more Bush bashing for you if you like. :twisted:

kenny olav

I don't forgive any of the slaveholding Presidents because there were plenty of men of their time who knew better.

Best: FDR, JFK, Obama
Worst: Jackson, Nixon, GWB

g under p

pandora wrote:

this is one of my favorite threads ever... great info ... funny too

I like them all, something likable about each one and it's good to keep a sense of humor
when it comes to our Presidents.

Yes they are ALL likeable in their own way cause they are ALL just figureheads listening to a higher force telling them exactly what to do. Even GWBII was likeable, he was always amusing when he was serious.

Peace

brianlux

Juan Godoy wrote:

The only surprise i had until here is that i thought W. Bush it would be more hated than this, just my opinion

Some of us just have a hard time talking about that guy.

brianlux

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

by the way, reagan belongs on my personal list of worst presidents.

Reagan's involvement in shutting down mental hospitals alone qualifies him as one of our worst leaders. A lot of people suffered because of those actions and the ranks of the homeless swelled.