Seven-year-old girl shot dead in Chicago

pandora

This little one, a casualty of what we all have allowed to happen.
She lived in violence and died by it.
And if her death is being used here in a gun law debate that is as wrong as her life
over at age seven.

Remembering this child in the big picture of what our society is
can be the only focus for change.

PJ_Soul

pandora wrote:

This little one, a casualty of what we all have allowed to happen.
She lived in violence and died by it.
And if her death is being used here in a gun law debate that is as wrong as her life
over at age seven.

Remembering this child in the big picture of what our society is
can be the only focus for change.

I see nothing wrong with this being used in a gun law debate at all. Many heart broken parents use their child's death as a reason and motivation to change laws that they think contributed to that child's loss. Most of them think of it as their child not dying in vain.

pandora

PJ_Soul wrote:

pandora wrote:

This little one, a casualty of what we all have allowed to happen.
She lived in violence and died by it.
And if her death is being used here in a gun law debate that is as wrong as her life
over at age seven.

Remembering this child in the big picture of what our society is
can be the only focus for change.

I see nothing wrong with this being used in a gun law debate at all. Many heart broken parents use their child's death as a reason and motivation to change laws that they think contributed to that child's loss. Most of them think of it as their child not dying in vain.

This child died selling lemonade in her neighborhood where she lived.
Stricter gun laws would do nothing to stop the violence she lives in.

Therefore a gun law debate changes nothing, as long as
there are people who use guns to kill and who find them illegally.

PJ_Soul

pandora wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

pandora wrote:

This little one, a casualty of what we all have allowed to happen.
She lived in violence and died by it.
And if her death is being used here in a gun law debate that is as wrong as her life
over at age seven.

Remembering this child in the big picture of what our society is
can be the only focus for change.

I see nothing wrong with this being used in a gun law debate at all. Many heart broken parents use their child's death as a reason and motivation to change laws that they think contributed to that child's loss. Most of them think of it as their child not dying in vain.

This child died selling lemonade in her neighborhood where she lived.
Stricter gun laws would do nothing to stop the violence she lives in.

Therefore a gun law debate changes nothing, as long as
there are people who use guns to kill and who find them illegally.

A gun debate could change something, you never know. Either way, there is nothing wrong with her death sparking debate about gun laws, which equals a debate about public safety, ineffectual or not. Such debates ARE a part of the big picture of what our society is.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

so let's all just cry about the death and not discuss the root causes and possible changes that could lead to someone else being saved.

yeah, makes total sense to me. :fp:

unsung

How about executions for gang members? That should solve it.

Of course I'm being somewhat sarcastic but unless they plan on actually STRONG ARMING the gangs nothing is going to change.

PJ_Soul

unsung wrote:

How about executions for gang members? That should solve it.

Of course I'm being somewhat sarcastic but unless they plan on actually STRONG ARMING the gangs nothing is going to change.

If they just legalized drugs a LOT would change. Violent gang activity would fall off in a huge way.

pandora

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

so let's all just cry about the death and not discuss the root causes and possible changes that could lead to someone else being saved.

yeah, makes total sense to me. :fp:

The debate that guns are the root cause to violence when people are the root
cause is the debate of which I speak. :fp: The debate that laws will change anything
when a neighborhood that lives by the gun, legal or illegal.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

so let's all just cry about the death and not discuss the root causes and possible changes that could lead to someone else being saved.

yeah, makes total sense to me. :fp:

The debate that guns are the root cause to violence when people are the root
cause is the debate of which I speak. :fp: The debate that laws will change anything
when a neighborhood that lives by the gun, legal or illegal.

so then by that logic we should legalize all drugs since the drugs aren't the problem, the users are.

PJ_Soul

pandora wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

so let's all just cry about the death and not discuss the root causes and possible changes that could lead to someone else being saved.

yeah, makes total sense to me. :fp:

The debate that guns are the root cause to violence when people are the root
cause is the debate of which I speak. :fp: The debate that laws will change anything
when a neighborhood that lives by the gun, legal or illegal.

I know that you think that a debate about gun laws may be ineffectual. My argument is that the debate does not diminish the girl's life or memory, which is what you claim. Any debate in a community that is geared towards positive change is useful in some way, whether or not the final result meets an ultimate goal. This girl's death is leading to discussion about making things better. That's a positive thing, not a negative.

PJ_Soul

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

pandora wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

so let's all just cry about the death and not discuss the root causes and possible changes that could lead to someone else being saved.

yeah, makes total sense to me. :fp:

The debate that guns are the root cause to violence when people are the root
cause is the debate of which I speak. :fp: The debate that laws will change anything
when a neighborhood that lives by the gun, legal or illegal.

so then by that logic we should legalize all drugs since the drugs aren't the problem, the users are.

Pandora and I are not on the same page at all, but I totally think drugs should be legalized.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

PJ_Soul wrote:

This girl's death is leading to discussion about making things better. That's a positive thing, not a negative.

I agree with you, but that's because I'm pro gun control/elimination.

PJ_Soul

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

This girl's death is leading to discussion about making things better. That's a positive thing, not a negative.

I agree with you, but that's because I'm pro gun control/elimination.

Well sure, so am I. But, while most people are too generally pissed off to admit it, no matter what side a person is on in a debate, debate for social change (or status quo) is valuable to a society.

JonnyPistachio

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

pandora wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

so let's all just cry about the death and not discuss the root causes and possible changes that could lead to someone else being saved.

yeah, makes total sense to me. :fp:

The debate that guns are the root cause to violence when people are the root
cause is the debate of which I speak. :fp: The debate that laws will change anything
when a neighborhood that lives by the gun, legal or illegal.

so then by that logic we should legalize all drugs since the drugs aren't the problem, the users are.

That's the reaction I got too. If stricter gun laws or making guns illegal wont change anything, and the criminals are going to get guns anyways? does that argument work for drugs too? I think the people that want to do drugs will do them no matter what. They will find a way, just as if someone wants to get a gun, they will get one. Its just too easy, on both accounts.

PJ_Soul

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

pandora wrote:

The debate that guns are the root cause to violence when people are the root
cause is the debate of which I speak. :fp: The debate that laws will change anything
when a neighborhood that lives by the gun, legal or illegal.

so then by that logic we should legalize all drugs since the drugs aren't the problem, the users are.

That's the reaction I got too. If stricter gun laws or making guns illegal wont change anything, and the criminals are going to get guns anyways? does that argument work for drugs too? I think the people that want to do drugs will do them no matter what. They will find a way, just as if someone wants to get a gun, they will get one. Its just too easy, on both accounts.

Guns and drugs are two completely different things. But gun related crimes would go down dramatically if drugs were legalized, not if guns were ... what? All the guns used in crimes aren't legal anyway.
Gun laws should start with the people who make and sell the guns btw. There is a way to keep guns off the streets. Stop making them and putting them out there for people to steal and shoot people with. I say screw the law abiding gun fanatics. I couldn't care less about them.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

PJ_Soul wrote:

Guns and drugs are two completely different things. But gun related crimes would go down dramatically if drugs were legalized, not if guns were ... what? All the guns used in crimes aren't legal anyway.
Gun laws should start with the people who make and sell the guns btw. There is a way to keep guns off the streets. Stop making them and putting them out there for people to steal and shoot people with. I say screw the law abiding gun fanatics. I couldn't care less about them.

how would anyone go about stopping production of guns? to use the drugs parallel once again, just because it's illegal, does NOT mean it's unattainable. and you make guns illegal, BANG, you just made a brand new black market for organized crime.

satansbed

you can make guns harder to get without making them illegal, if there are stricter critera for getting guns then their will be less of a chance of guns falling through the cracks into the hands of criminals

now america may be too far through the rabbit hole but in europe and probably the rest of the modern world guns are more or less illegal except in the case of hunting etc

and we don't have anywhere near the gun crime america has

Hugh Freaking Dillon

satansbed wrote:

you can make guns harder to get without making them illegal, if there are stricter critera for getting guns then their will be less of a chance of guns falling through the cracks into the hands of criminals

now america may be too far through the rabbit hole but in europe and probably the rest of the modern world guns are more or less illegal except in the case of hunting etc

and we don't have anywhere near the gun crime america has

agreed.

PJ_Soul

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Guns and drugs are two completely different things. But gun related crimes would go down dramatically if drugs were legalized, not if guns were ... what? All the guns used in crimes aren't legal anyway.
Gun laws should start with the people who make and sell the guns btw. There is a way to keep guns off the streets. Stop making them and putting them out there for people to steal and shoot people with. I say screw the law abiding gun fanatics. I couldn't care less about them.

how would anyone go about stopping production of guns? to use the drugs parallel once again, just because it's illegal, does NOT mean it's unattainable. and you make guns illegal, BANG, you just made a brand new black market for organized crime.

I dunno. I don't proclaim to know much about it. But it seems to work in the UK fairly well. They have very little gun crime, and very few guns.
... It obviously goes deeper than that though. I mean, Canada has more guns per capita than the US, but there is very little gun crime per capita here. Again, legalize drugs and it would go way way way down immediately.

81

you anti gun nuts are funny.....

Chicago was basically zero lawful handgun ownership for 30 years. worked brialliantly to stop handgun murders.