Seven-year-old girl shot dead in Chicago

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  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    Legalizing all hard drugs is ridiculous
    and comparing that to gun ownership even more so...
    guess we should have expected that though :fp:

    personal comments: not ok.

    and how is legalizing hard drugs and gun ownership not comparable? by and large, it uses the same philosophy: "if you are responsible, it won't hurt anyone". that's what you say about guns, and that's what the other thread is saying about drugs. so there is a correlation there. I find being pro one and anti the other to be hyporcitical, which was my point. I wasn't trying to make this thread part of the drug debate, I was merely pointing out the inconsistency in your argument.

    that seems like a personal comment to me

    Go back and read my explanation .... gun ownership and hard drug use
    are not comparable at all and I have stated why.

    This is off topic.. :fp:

    we can discuss responsibility of hard drug use in the legalize all drugs thread
    .
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    Kevinman wrote:
    Are you being serious? Why do you believe they had a gun? If you really believe this, it sounds like you are the classic example of someone who sterotypes. If your theory was true, then every single person on my block must be packing heat. Gangbangers want nothing to do with Iowa, you should be happy to know. People moving out there to find a job, are doing just that, looking for a job. What may be happening is families moving out there with parents looking for a job, that may have a kid or kids in a gang? Sorry, but your post comes off as ignorant to me. Not every person from the bad parts of the city is in a gang, or up to no good, or looking for trouble. I don't live in the best part of Chicago, I'm white and the minority, by far, in my neighborhood, and I can tell you that most of the people in my neighborhood are nice people. Try saying hello, who knows, you may make a new friend.

    my area is being invaded by inner city gangbangers and has been for quite some time. orginally the mexican mafia runs the show along with mississippi river (and other rivers) hillbillies, cia/fbi, spookes, dirty lawmen & women...including prison guards and whatnot.

    back in the 70's & 80's the iowa state penitentiary housed several hundred different members of gangs from chicago. 'question... are the vice lords, the crips, & the bloods from chicago? whatever outfit it was, their president guy was housed over here. he only collected around $200,000.00 a month while locked up.

    do you have any idea how much money these kinda folks make in these small towns? do you have any idea about the fact that the law aint fucking on their asses like it is in a bigger city; they aint so hot over here. these people pretty much control every single drug transaction in the greater midwest area. meaning... it all funnels to only a few
    ....
    hello, kevinman
    about my comment from earlier

    the gentlemen were parked in the crosswalk area of a walmart. with windows door in their car and my own, i watched them for quite some time. hardcore fuckers those dudes. high as shit on whathaveyou. the driver for sure was one of the meanest looking men i have ever looked into the eyes of. he had nasty bastard written all over him.

    i am perceptive and all over it. this has helped keep me alive
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • pandora wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Legalizing all hard drugs is ridiculous
    and comparing that to gun ownership even more so...
    guess we should have expected that though :fp:

    personal comments: not ok.

    and how is legalizing hard drugs and gun ownership not comparable? by and large, it uses the same philosophy: "if you are responsible, it won't hurt anyone". that's what you say about guns, and that's what the other thread is saying about drugs. so there is a correlation there. I find being pro one and anti the other to be hyporcitical, which was my point. I wasn't trying to make this thread part of the drug debate, I was merely pointing out the inconsistency in your argument.

    that seems like a personal comment to me

    Go back and read my explanation .... gun ownership and hard drug use
    are not comparable at all and I have stated why.

    This is off topic.. :fp:

    we can discuss responsibility of hard drug use in the legalize all drugs thread
    .

    I've bolded, underlined, and enlarged the portion you address in your last statement. pretty clear.

    your comment was sarcastic in nature directed at me. my comment to you was an opinion based on two seemingly contradictory stances. no sarcasm, no insult. learn the difference.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • pandora wrote:
    Yes and that was the point to my post, but why has no one answered?...

    answered what? the reason why Canada has as many or more guns than the US per capita but the US far outweighs in gun crime? it is many factors, as you stated. no one is naive enough to blame it completely on the lax gun laws. but it is a major contributing factor.

    it's the overall attitude that owning a gun is your right, not a priveledge. it's not respected. since it's stated 200 years ago in a piece of paper for some reason everyone thinks it's just as much their right to own one as it is to breathe air.

    "from my cold dead hands" has got to be the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard someone say in my entire life. how arrogant, ignorant you have to be to say something so stupid. and he was the LEADER.

    Canadians, in a general sense, use guns for hunting. I don't know ONE person who owns a handgun, for protection or any other reason. And I like it that way. I don't even know too many people that own hunting rifles. And those that do are well balanced individuals that hunt and eat the meat. I despise hunting, but I respect their right to do so.

    I don't think the American culture of guns can ever be reversed. that would be virtually impossible. and no person in the world who wants a career in politics would ever dare utter such a blasphemous sentiment from his lips.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    Yes and that was the point to my post, but why has no one answered?...

    answered what? the reason why Canada has as many or more guns than the US per capita but the US far outweighs in gun crime? it is many factors, as you stated. no one is naive enough to blame it completely on the lax gun laws. but it is a major contributing factor.

    it's the overall attitude that owning a gun is your right, not a priveledge. it's not respected. since it's stated 200 years ago in a piece of paper for some reason everyone thinks it's just as much their right to own one as it is to breathe air.

    "from my cold dead hands" has got to be the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard someone say in my entire life. how arrogant, ignorant you have to be to say something so stupid. and he was the LEADER.

    Canadians, in a general sense, use guns for hunting. I don't know ONE person who owns a handgun, for protection or any other reason. And I like it that way. I don't even know too many people that own hunting rifles. And those that do are well balanced individuals that hunt and eat the meat. I despise hunting, but I respect their right to do so.

    I don't think the American culture of guns can ever be reversed. that would be virtually impossible. and no person in the world who wants a career in politics would ever dare utter such a blasphemous sentiment from his lips.
    No....
    that wasn't my question :lol:

    Don't be bad mouthing my Charlton Heston now, he is my hero :clap:

    I get the fight back, I get heroes, I get our history, I get our rights.

    They are ours and my question centers around why another country's citizens,
    who live in an incomparable society with hugely different variables,
    causing hugely different problems, find comparing to even be plausible.

    Are some just ragging, finding fault, doing a nanner nanner boo boo
    we're better than you you?


    Legal gun ownership nor gun laws in place did not cause this child's death.

    Some people in our great country don't respect life, don't value their own nor someone else's.
    Some people have such struggle in life that is almost understandable when you in vision
    their living conditions and the lack of hope.

    Hey the new thing here in Atlanta is machetes :shock:
    not easily concealable but sends quite the the message.
    A gang of guys broke into the home of 5 women yesterday ...
    better ending than could have been imagined though.
    The bad guys, one dead, one wounded but 2 got away to play another day. :o

    Bad guys got guns and machetes....

    I fault no one who owns a gun responsibly
    to protect themselves, their loved ones or their fellow citizens.

    This is a right we will keep, we need to keep.
  • pandora wrote:
    No....
    that wasn't my question :lol:

    Don't be bad mouthing my Charlton Heston now, he is my hero :clap:

    I get the fight back, I get heroes, I get our history, I get our rights.

    They are ours and my question centers around why another country's citizens,
    who live in an incomparable society with hugely different variables,
    causing hugely different problems, find comparing to even be plausible.

    Are some just ragging, finding fault, doing a nanner nanner boo boo
    we're better than you you?

    Legal gun ownership nor gun laws in place did not cause this child's death.

    Some people in our great country don't respect life, don't value their own nor someone else's.
    Some people have such struggle in life that is almost understandable when you in vision
    their living conditions and the lack of hope.

    I fault no one who owns a gun responsibly
    to protect themselves, their loved ones or their fellow citizens.

    This is a right we will keep, we need to keep.

    I have never once said, nor will I ever say that my country is better than any other. I find the notion that imaginary lines could be so divisive that it makes one better than the other to be utterly preposterous. I think patriotism is for the unitelligent, personally. I celebrate CULTURES, not borders. I find it quite funny you seem to think Canadians and Americans are "imcomparable".

    So I drive 2 hours South and all of a sudden I'm in some bizarro world? Gimme a break.

    I'm sure if you took accents away, and met two people in a room, you wouldn't have the faintest clue which one is CDN and which is US. We are very much the same. Our governments, thank Darwin, are worlds apart. Although, GWB Jr (Stephen Harper) is taking us in that direction, which scares the hell out of me. But he won't be around forever.

    Guns are evil because humans can't be trusted with them. We are not evolved enough to be responsible enough to have them even exist.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    No....
    that wasn't my question :lol:

    Don't be bad mouthing my Charlton Heston now, he is my hero :clap:

    I get the fight back, I get heroes, I get our history, I get our rights.

    They are ours and my question centers around why another country's citizens,
    who live in an incomparable society with hugely different variables,
    causing hugely different problems, find comparing to even be plausible.

    Are some just ragging, finding fault, doing a nanner nanner boo boo
    we're better than you you?

    Legal gun ownership nor gun laws in place did not cause this child's death.

    Some people in our great country don't respect life, don't value their own nor someone else's.
    Some people have such struggle in life that is almost understandable when you in vision
    their living conditions and the lack of hope.

    I fault no one who owns a gun responsibly
    to protect themselves, their loved ones or their fellow citizens.

    This is a right we will keep, we need to keep.

    I have never once said, nor will I ever say that my country is better than any other. I find the notion that imaginary lines could be so divisive that it makes one better than the other to be utterly preposterous. I think patriotism is for the unitelligent, personally. I celebrate CULTURES, not borders. I find it quite funny you seem to think Canadians and Americans are "imcomparable".

    So I drive 2 hours South and all of a sudden I'm in some bizarro world? Gimme a break.

    I'm sure if you took accents away, and met two people in a room, you wouldn't have the faintest clue which one is CDN and which is US. We are very much the same. Our governments, thank Darwin, are worlds apart. Although, GWB Jr (Stephen Harper) is taking us in that direction, which scares the hell out of me. But he won't be around forever.

    Guns are evil because humans can't be trusted with them. We are not evolved enough to be responsible enough to have them even exist.
    My accent as I travel the US...
    I am frequently accused of being Canadian. ;)

    Remember, keeping a sense of humor lightens the load. I will apply that to the superior remark
    that kind of reinforces my point :lol:

    You are comparing people, I am questioning the incessant comparison of countries.
    And speaking of countries, borders do make a difference, a rather big one.

    Guns aren't evil, people are. Bad guys got guns, always will have guns legal or otherwise.

    People can be trusted with them, they are called law abiding, peaceful,
    responsible gun owners, who have a common sense duty to protect life....
    not just a right but a duty.
  • Hugh Freaking DillonHugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    edited July 2012
    pandora wrote:
    You are comparing people, I am questioning the incessant comparison of countries.
    And speaking of countries, borders do make a difference, a rather big one.

    Guns aren't evil, people are. Bad guys got guns, always will have guns legal or otherwise.

    exactly, so any species that houses any evil amongst it should not be allowed, much less encouraged, to carry deadly weapons.

    you can't compare countries without comparing it's people. the people make up the country. I don't think many people here are comparing the geography of the two nations.
    Post edited by Hugh Freaking Dillon on
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • pandora wrote:
    Remember, keeping a sense of humor lightens the load. I will apply that to the superior remark
    that kind of reinforces my point :lol:

    I have absolutely no idea what this means, but I reserve humour for when it is appropriate.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    You are comparing people, I am questioning the incessant comparison of countries.
    And speaking of countries, borders do make a difference, a rather big one.

    Guns aren't evil, people are. Bad guys got guns, always will have guns legal or otherwise.

    exactly, so any species that houses any evil amongst it should not be allowed, much less encouraged, to carry deadly weapons.

    you can't compare countries without comparing it's people. the people make up the country. I don't think many people here are comparing the geography of the two nations.
    Allowed to carry guns :?

    we shouldn't be because we are all evil ...
    alrighty then
    can I add a wow :fp: to that statement

    and a funny I don't feel evil ...


    A country is not only based on it's geography / borders, but it's policy, history, economics,
    laws, population and the inherent problems that come from these factors all mixed up
    and put together.
    The US and Canada incomparable so why the comparisons?

    We'll listen in the future and see if we hear a nanner nanner boo boo
    because a competition amongst friends is rather foolish.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    Remember, keeping a sense of humor lightens the load. I will apply that to the superior remark
    that kind of reinforces my point :lol:

    I have absolutely no idea what this means, but I reserve humour for when it is appropriate.
    And sometimes people have a very different idea on what is appropriate humor and what isn't.

    It is a great quote though and so true ...
    humor lightens the load ...
  • pandora wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    You are comparing people, I am questioning the incessant comparison of countries.
    And speaking of countries, borders do make a difference, a rather big one.

    Guns aren't evil, people are. Bad guys got guns, always will have guns legal or otherwise.

    exactly, so any species that houses any evil amongst it should not be allowed, much less encouraged, to carry deadly weapons.

    you can't compare countries without comparing it's people. the people make up the country. I don't think many people here are comparing the geography of the two nations.
    Allowed to carry guns :?

    we shouldn't be because we are all evil ...
    alrighty then
    can I add a wow :fp: to that statement

    and a funny I don't feel evil ...


    A country is not only based on it's geography / borders, but it's policy, history, economics,
    laws, population and the inherent problems that come from these factors all mixed up
    and put together.
    The US and Canada incomparable so why the comparisons?

    We'll listen in the future and see if we hear a nanner nanner boo boo
    because a competition amongst friends is rather foolish.

    who makes up the history?
    who makes up the economics?
    who makes the laws?
    who makes up the population?

    THE PEOPLE. you made my point.

    competition? wtf are you talking about? comparing the laws and culture of a certain aspect of each is a good way to come to a solution. it opens dialogue, which leads to mutual benefit. both countries can learn from each other. we can all learn from each other.

    you don't think addressing the fact that canada has the same amount of guns as the US per capita yet the gun crime rate is incredibly lower is worth looking at? keep the blinders on then.

    and where did I say everyone was evil? :? I said any species that "houses evil amongst it", which means some beings in that species can have those tendencies.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • pandora wrote:
    Allowed to carry guns :?

    it's not a basic human right, it's a right based on a man-made law in one specific region, so yes, allowed.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    who makes up the history?
    who makes up the economics?
    who makes the laws?
    who makes up the population?

    THE PEOPLE. you made my point.

    competition? wtf are you talking about? comparing the laws and culture of a certain aspect of each is a good way to come to a solution. it opens dialogue, which leads to mutual benefit. both countries can learn from each other. we can all learn from each other.

    you don't think addressing the fact that canada has the same amount of guns as the US per capita yet the gun crime rate is incredibly lower is worth looking at? keep the blinders on then.

    and where did I say everyone was evil? :? I said any species that "houses evil amongst it", which means some beings in that species can have those tendencies.

    Oh yes punish all for the acts of some. I see where you are coming from.

    I found a great website updated a couple months ago. Facts on all the countries ...
    gun facts. I will need to study further ... interesting.

    http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

    Rate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 Population
    The rate of private gun ownership in Canada is 23.82 firearms per 100 people

    compared to

    Rate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 Population
    The rate of private gun ownership in the United States is 88.82 firearms per 100 people


    This appears to be a bit different than your comparison yes no maybe so...

    US has 270,000,000 million legal guns while Canada has just under 10,000,000.
    Sheer numbers pretty mind blowing. Holy crap!
    I wonder if with these numbers comes the chance of more violence
    just based on sheer numbers.

    And this is only legal gun ownership, it is our illegal guns that often influence
    responsible law abiding citizens
    to choose to own legal guns to protect themselves and their families.


    I will fight the allowed part ... glad I'm here over there just for that fact alone.
    It is our right one we will keep.

    And I'm allowed to take my drink in the ladies room and not need a sipper cup lid on it either ;)
    just messing with ya ... but that did freak me out a bit at the PJ concert.
    That and the law standing above the crowd watching. :shock: Now that felt like Big Brother.
    I couldn't help but get a wee bit rebellious and remove my lid! :lol: my bad
    some Canadian friends around me joined in! :D

    I guess we could have known this little ones death would turn to a gun debate.
    I'm out... out out of respect. I know the trouble runs much deeper than a firearm.

    She died because the value of life is steadily dropping and with it
    the hope for a better future here in our America.
  • pandora wrote:
    Oh yes punish all for the acts of some. I see where you are coming from.

    no, you don't see where I'm coming from. punishment has nothing to do with it.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    pandora wrote:
    who makes up the history?
    who makes up the economics?
    who makes the laws?
    who makes up the population?

    THE PEOPLE. you made my point.

    competition? wtf are you talking about? comparing the laws and culture of a certain aspect of each is a good way to come to a solution. it opens dialogue, which leads to mutual benefit. both countries can learn from each other. we can all learn from each other.

    you don't think addressing the fact that canada has the same amount of guns as the US per capita yet the gun crime rate is incredibly lower is worth looking at? keep the blinders on then.

    and where did I say everyone was evil? :? I said any species that "houses evil amongst it", which means some beings in that species can have those tendencies.

    Oh yes punish all for the acts of some. I see where you are coming from.

    I found a great website updated a couple months ago. Facts on all the countries ...
    gun facts. I will need to study further ... interesting.

    http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

    Rate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 Population
    The rate of private gun ownership in Canada is 23.82 firearms per 100 people

    compared to

    Rate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 Populatio
    The rate of private gun ownership in the United States is 88.82 firearms per 100 people


    This appears to be a bit different than your comparison yes no maybe so...

    US has 270,000,000 million legal guns while Canada has just under 10,000,000.
    Sheer numbers pretty mind blowing. Holy crap!
    I wonder if with these numbers comes the chance of more violence
    just based on sheer numbers.

    And this is only legal gun ownership, it is our illegal guns that often influence
    responsible law abiding citizens
    to choose to own legal guns to protect themselves and their families.


    I will fight the allowed part ... glad I'm here over there just for that fact alone.
    It is our right one we will keep.

    And I'm allowed to take my drink in the ladies room and not need a sipper cup lid on it either ;)
    just messing with ya ... but that did freak me out a bit at the PJ concert.
    That and the law standing above the crowd watching. :shock: Now that felt like Big Brother.
    I couldn't help but get a wee bit rebellious and remove my lid! :lol: my bad
    some Canadian friends around me joined in! :D

    I guess we could have known this little ones death would turn to a gun debateo
    I'm out... out out of respect. I know the trouble runs much deeper than a firearm.

    She died because the value of life is steadily dropping and with it
    the hope for a better future here in our America.
    Why in the fuck are you so into guns Pandora?? I never understood why some people stood up for the right to shoot guns as though they were standing up for civil rights or something. I just can't understand why gun nuts find it so important given the negatives of lax gun ownership laws. The freedom argument alone just doesn't add up.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Why in the fuck are you so into guns Pandora?? I never understood why some people stood up for the right to shoot guns as though they were standing up for civil rights or something. I just can't understand why gun nuts find it so important given the negatives of lax gun ownership laws. The freedom argument alone just doesn't add up.
    I don't even own a gun :lol:
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    pandora wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Why in the fuck are you so into guns Pandora?? I never understood why some people stood up for the right to shoot guns as though they were standing up for civil rights or something. I just can't understand why gun nuts find it so important given the negatives of lax gun ownership laws. The freedom argument alone just doesn't add up.
    I don't even own a gun :lol:
    Well then your support of them is even more mystifying.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Why in the fuck are you so into guns Pandora?? I never understood why some people stood up for the right to shoot guns as though they were standing up for civil rights or something. I just can't understand why gun nuts find it so important given the negatives of lax gun ownership laws. The freedom argument alone just doesn't add up.
    I don't even own a gun :lol:
    Well then your support of them is even more mystifying.
    :fp:
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