are pj and jay really both playing both nights???? that would be insane
yeah, it really would be. i dunno if it's true. i've read Jay night 1, PJ night 2. but then a friend showed me where some UK news site said PJ closes Saturday and Jay closes Sunday. but even that could technically mean Saturday night = Jay then PJ; Sunday night = PJ then Jay.
i think it's hard to say until it's announced officially. if it's not true, i'm still glad i'm going. if it's true, then it's a gift.
CNN says PJ are only performing on one of the two days....I think it's best to wait for formal announcements since there is so much conflicting information.
i wonder if sites post conflicting info like this just to get site hits. cuz it's all over the map. are these sites getting legitimate, but conflicting leaks? or do they know just as much as we do, and are just posting b.s. about the line-up to get clickthroughs? hmmm....
til an official announcement, no one knows. i agree.
CNN says PJ are only performing on one of the two days....I think it's best to wait for formal announcements since there is so much conflicting information.
i wonder if sites post conflicting info like this just to get site hits. cuz it's all over the map. are these sites getting legitimate, but conflicting leaks? or do they know just as much as we do, and are just posting b.s. about the line-up to get clickthroughs? hmmm....
til an official announcement, no one knows. i agree.
the official announcement from the 10 Club clearly stated 'DATE and TIME' to be announced. nothing plural. they are only playing one night...and 90% it's sunday night people.
Just a heads up if you are going - Philly hotels are quite pricey. You may want to go grab something soon - I'd expect the lower priced places that are near the show location will fill up quickly.
R.i.p. Rigoberto Alpizar.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
Just a heads up if you are going - Philly hotels are quite pricey. You may want to go grab something soon - I'd expect the lower priced places that are near the show location will fill up quickly.
or crash at a fellow member's place
Heard tix are now $153 a piece Glad i got mine for $99
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
Just a heads up if you are going - Philly hotels are quite pricey. You may want to go grab something soon - I'd expect the lower priced places that are near the show location will fill up quickly.
actually the best move is to wait until 3 weeks before the show, or sometimes even the week of, and search hotwire. that's when you get the best deals. i usually make 3-4 hotel trips to philly every year, and this strategy always works, no matter what kind of event is going on. usually i'll get a 4 star hotel in the city for less than $150 bucks. but you could even do better than that money-wise; i just like to have a nice bed.
Just a heads up if you are going - Philly hotels are quite pricey. You may want to go grab something soon - I'd expect the lower priced places that are near the show location will fill up quickly.
or crash at a fellow member's place
Heard tix are now $153 a piece Glad i got mine for $99
Preparty at my place, I live in Old City which is 10 minute cab/bus ride. But maybe I'll move to one of those Art Museum apartment buildings before September
Just a heads up if you are going - Philly hotels are quite pricey. You may want to go grab something soon - I'd expect the lower priced places that are near the show location will fill up quickly.
or crash at a fellow member's place
Heard tix are now $153 a piece Glad i got mine for $99
Preparty at my place, I live in Old City which is 10 minute cab/bus ride. But maybe I'll move to one of those Art Museum apartment buildings before September
Just a heads up if you are going - Philly hotels are quite pricey. You may want to go grab something soon - I'd expect the lower priced places that are near the show location will fill up quickly.
or crash at a fellow member's place
Heard tix are now $153 a piece Glad i got mine for $99
Preparty at my place, I live in Old City which is 10 minute cab/bus ride. But maybe I'll move to one of those Art Museum apartment buildings before September
God bless you. Good area but the weekends get hectic. Was there for 2 years (2nd and Arch) and just south of you now at 2nd and Christian.
i dont think rage would play a "budweiser made in america festival"... i would have said the same thing about pearl jam 10 years ago... not saying they are sell outs or anything by any stretch for playing it, but its pretty clear some things are changing
i can tell you this though, the day they license a pearl jam song for a corporate tv commercial, i will gladly drop my 10c membership...
"This Note's For You"
Neil Young
Don't want no cash
Don't need no money
Ain't got no stash
This note's for you.
Ain't singin' for Pepsi
Ain't singin' for Coke
I don't sing for nobody
Makes me look like a joke
This note's for you.
Ain't singin' for Miller
Don't sing for Bud
I won't sing for politicians
Ain't singin' for Spuds
This note's for you.
Don't need no cash
Don't want no money
Ain't got no stash
This note's for you.
I've got the real thing
I got the real thing, baby
I got the real thing
Yeah, alright.
Just a heads up if you are going - Philly hotels are quite pricey. You may want to go grab something soon - I'd expect the lower priced places that are near the show location will fill up quickly.
or crash at a fellow member's place
Heard tix are now $153 a piece Glad i got mine for $99
Yes, but $153 is the price with fees, the base price is $135. Didn't you really pay $115? I think it's better to compare apples to apples, no? (Better for me anyway, because I got the tickets for $153 and I don't feel as bad knowing that the difference in price is smaller than what you posted. :shifty: )
2012: Philadelphia, Atlanta 2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Worcester 1 & 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Hartford, Baltimore 2014: Oslo, Gdynia, Leeds, Cincinnati, St. Paul, Milwaukee 2015: New York City, Mexico City 2016: Miami, Columbia, New York City 2, Quebec City, Chicago 2 2018: Seattle 1 & 2, Boston 1 & 2 2022: New York City 2, Camden 2023: St. Paul 1 & 2, Chicago 2, Austin 1 & 2
Just a heads up if you are going - Philly hotels are quite pricey. You may want to go grab something soon - I'd expect the lower priced places that are near the show location will fill up quickly.
or crash at a fellow member's place
Heard tix are now $153 a piece Glad i got mine for $99
Yes, but $153 is the price with fees, the base price is $135. Didn't you really pay $115? I think it's better to compare apples to apples, no? (Better for me anyway, because I got the tickets for $153 and I don't feel as bad knowing that the difference in price is smaller than what you posted. :shifty: )
2012: Philadelphia, Atlanta 2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Worcester 1 & 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Hartford, Baltimore 2014: Oslo, Gdynia, Leeds, Cincinnati, St. Paul, Milwaukee 2015: New York City, Mexico City 2016: Miami, Columbia, New York City 2, Quebec City, Chicago 2 2018: Seattle 1 & 2, Boston 1 & 2 2022: New York City 2, Camden 2023: St. Paul 1 & 2, Chicago 2, Austin 1 & 2
I think it's better to compare apples to apples, no?
I prefer comparing apples to oranges. Better yet, bananas to pears!
(don't mind me, 4 hours sleep and feeling a bit delirious)
You stayed up half the night thinking about Eddie?
Post edited by GirlLovesPJ on
2012: Philadelphia, Atlanta 2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Worcester 1 & 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Hartford, Baltimore 2014: Oslo, Gdynia, Leeds, Cincinnati, St. Paul, Milwaukee 2015: New York City, Mexico City 2016: Miami, Columbia, New York City 2, Quebec City, Chicago 2 2018: Seattle 1 & 2, Boston 1 & 2 2022: New York City 2, Camden 2023: St. Paul 1 & 2, Chicago 2, Austin 1 & 2
I have one doubt: The only people who can stay near to the stage (i'm talking about the front row) is the ones that have the VIP Package ? Or if a buy a normal ticket, and get early in the festival, could i be in the front row ?
Or even in american festivals have the boring way of "reserved seating" ?
Rio de Janeiro, Praça da Apoteose, 2011
Atlanta, Music Midtown, 2012
São Paulo, Lollapalooza, 2013
2012: Philadelphia, Atlanta 2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Worcester 1 & 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Hartford, Baltimore 2014: Oslo, Gdynia, Leeds, Cincinnati, St. Paul, Milwaukee 2015: New York City, Mexico City 2016: Miami, Columbia, New York City 2, Quebec City, Chicago 2 2018: Seattle 1 & 2, Boston 1 & 2 2022: New York City 2, Camden 2023: St. Paul 1 & 2, Chicago 2, Austin 1 & 2
I have one doubt: The only people who can stay near to the stage (i'm talking about the front row) is the ones that have the VIP Package ? Or if a buy a normal ticket, and get early in the festival, could i be in the front row ?
Or even in american festivals have the boring way of "reserved seating" ?
I don't know how it's going to be set up at the Philly Festival, but at the Atlanta Festival you can definitely get a good spot if you get there early. The VIPs get the side view of the stage, so if you are there early enough you can get a much better spot than the VIPs.
2012: Philadelphia, Atlanta 2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Worcester 1 & 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Hartford, Baltimore 2014: Oslo, Gdynia, Leeds, Cincinnati, St. Paul, Milwaukee 2015: New York City, Mexico City 2016: Miami, Columbia, New York City 2, Quebec City, Chicago 2 2018: Seattle 1 & 2, Boston 1 & 2 2022: New York City 2, Camden 2023: St. Paul 1 & 2, Chicago 2, Austin 1 & 2
I have one doubt: The only people who can stay near to the stage (i'm talking about the front row) is the ones that have the VIP Package ? Or if a buy a normal ticket, and get early in the festival, could i be in the front row ?
Or even in american festivals have the boring way of "reserved seating" ?
I don't know how it's going to be set up at the Philly Festival, but at the Atlanta Festival you can definitely get a good spot if you get there early. The VIPs get the side view of the stage, so if you are early enough you can get a much better spot than the VIPs.
FUCKYEAAHHH thank you
Rio de Janeiro, Praça da Apoteose, 2011
Atlanta, Music Midtown, 2012
São Paulo, Lollapalooza, 2013
I don't know how it's going to be set up at the Philly Festival, but at the Atlanta Festival you can definitely get a good spot if you get there early. The VIPs get the side view of the stage, so if you are there early enough you can get a much better spot than the VIPs.
vip having side stage isnt a def..i forgot which one deluna or midtown but there vips are front of the stage some other shows have side vip some have raised platforms its not def side of the stage theres a few diff options..and for this show theres 2 diff class of vips so dont know if there will be 2 diff vip areas
I don't know how it's going to be set up at the Philly Festival, but at the Atlanta Festival you can definitely get a good spot if you get there early. The VIPs get the side view of the stage, so if you are there early enough you can get a much better spot than the VIPs.
vip having side stage isnt a def..i forgot which one deluna or midtown but there vips are front of the stage some other shows have side vip some have raised platforms its not def side of the stage theres a few diff options..and for this show theres 2 diff class of vips so dont know if there will be 2 diff vip areas
Check out this map:
(PJ will play on the Electric Ballroom Stage - bottom of the map)
2012: Philadelphia, Atlanta 2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Worcester 1 & 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Hartford, Baltimore 2014: Oslo, Gdynia, Leeds, Cincinnati, St. Paul, Milwaukee 2015: New York City, Mexico City 2016: Miami, Columbia, New York City 2, Quebec City, Chicago 2 2018: Seattle 1 & 2, Boston 1 & 2 2022: New York City 2, Camden 2023: St. Paul 1 & 2, Chicago 2, Austin 1 & 2
my point was that just cause its side stage there doesnt mean its side stage for philly..which is what i thought you were answering the question about
I did say I didn't know what was the set up like for Philly. Thaislopes mentioned "American Festivals" (in plural), so I decided to mention Atlanta just because this was one festival I knew more about.
I know, I know... this is not the Atlanta thread but I still mentioned it.
Post edited by GirlLovesPJ on
2012: Philadelphia, Atlanta 2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Worcester 1 & 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Hartford, Baltimore 2014: Oslo, Gdynia, Leeds, Cincinnati, St. Paul, Milwaukee 2015: New York City, Mexico City 2016: Miami, Columbia, New York City 2, Quebec City, Chicago 2 2018: Seattle 1 & 2, Boston 1 & 2 2022: New York City 2, Camden 2023: St. Paul 1 & 2, Chicago 2, Austin 1 & 2
my point was that just cause its side stage there doesnt mean its side stage for philly..which is what i thought you were answering the question about
I did say I didn't know what was the set up like for Philly. Thaislopes mentioned "American Festivals" (in plural), so I decided to mention Atlanta just because this was one festival I knew more about.
I know, I know... this is not the Atlanta thread but I still mentioned it.
2012: Philadelphia, Atlanta 2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Worcester 1 & 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Hartford, Baltimore 2014: Oslo, Gdynia, Leeds, Cincinnati, St. Paul, Milwaukee 2015: New York City, Mexico City 2016: Miami, Columbia, New York City 2, Quebec City, Chicago 2 2018: Seattle 1 & 2, Boston 1 & 2 2022: New York City 2, Camden 2023: St. Paul 1 & 2, Chicago 2, Austin 1 & 2
Was really excited to hear Pearl Jam is playing Philly again BUT.....
This whole thing feels rushed and there are A LOT of unanswered questions:
Is Pearl Jam playing both days?
If not, what day are they playing?
Will single day tickets be available?
Tickets are onsale before the artist list is complete....seriously?
And what is this B.S. of tickets getting more expensive as the show gets closer?
There was no indication that the $99 tickets were limited to a presale ONLY and you had to go to Budweiser's facebook page( great if was a 20y.o. college student - how about an email Ten Club?)
The price jumped 50% literally over night and it's gonna jump up again and AGAIN without notification.
How the hell are you supposed to plan for this with SOOOO MANY unknowns?
The official website is LACKING at best.
WTF?
Comments
yeah, it really would be. i dunno if it's true. i've read Jay night 1, PJ night 2. but then a friend showed me where some UK news site said PJ closes Saturday and Jay closes Sunday. but even that could technically mean Saturday night = Jay then PJ; Sunday night = PJ then Jay.
i think it's hard to say until it's announced officially. if it's not true, i'm still glad i'm going. if it's true, then it's a gift.
i wonder if sites post conflicting info like this just to get site hits. cuz it's all over the map. are these sites getting legitimate, but conflicting leaks? or do they know just as much as we do, and are just posting b.s. about the line-up to get clickthroughs? hmmm....
til an official announcement, no one knows. i agree.
the official announcement from the 10 Club clearly stated 'DATE and TIME' to be announced. nothing plural. they are only playing one night...and 90% it's sunday night people.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
or crash at a fellow member's place
Heard tix are now $153 a piece
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
actually the best move is to wait until 3 weeks before the show, or sometimes even the week of, and search hotwire. that's when you get the best deals. i usually make 3-4 hotel trips to philly every year, and this strategy always works, no matter what kind of event is going on. usually i'll get a 4 star hotel in the city for less than $150 bucks. but you could even do better than that money-wise; i just like to have a nice bed.
Preparty at my place, I live in Old City which is 10 minute cab/bus ride. But maybe I'll move to one of those Art Museum apartment buildings before September
are there going to be some smilies at this party?
God bless you. Good area but the weekends get hectic. Was there for 2 years (2nd and Arch) and just south of you now at 2nd and Christian.
i dont think rage would play a "budweiser made in america festival"... i would have said the same thing about pearl jam 10 years ago... not saying they are sell outs or anything by any stretch for playing it, but its pretty clear some things are changing
i can tell you this though, the day they license a pearl jam song for a corporate tv commercial, i will gladly drop my 10c membership...
"This Note's For You"
Neil Young
Don't want no cash
Don't need no money
Ain't got no stash
This note's for you.
Ain't singin' for Pepsi
Ain't singin' for Coke
I don't sing for nobody
Makes me look like a joke
This note's for you.
Ain't singin' for Miller
Don't sing for Bud
I won't sing for politicians
Ain't singin' for Spuds
This note's for you.
Don't need no cash
Don't want no money
Ain't got no stash
This note's for you.
I've got the real thing
I got the real thing, baby
I got the real thing
Yeah, alright.
Yes, but $153 is the price with fees, the base price is $135. Didn't you really pay $115? I think it's better to compare apples to apples, no? (Better for me anyway, because I got the tickets for $153 and I don't feel as bad knowing that the difference in price is smaller than what you posted. :shifty:
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Worcester 1 & 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Hartford, Baltimore
2014: Oslo, Gdynia, Leeds, Cincinnati, St. Paul, Milwaukee
2015: New York City, Mexico City
2016: Miami, Columbia, New York City 2, Quebec City, Chicago 2
2018: Seattle 1 & 2, Boston 1 & 2
2022: New York City 2, Camden
2023: St. Paul 1 & 2, Chicago 2, Austin 1 & 2
YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They were $114
2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
2017: RRHoF 4/7 2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4 2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18
2022: MSG 9/11 2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
(don't mind me, 4 hours sleep and feeling a bit delirious)
$114 not $115???
Wow, I was way off!!! :fp: I feel crappy again.
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Worcester 1 & 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Hartford, Baltimore
2014: Oslo, Gdynia, Leeds, Cincinnati, St. Paul, Milwaukee
2015: New York City, Mexico City
2016: Miami, Columbia, New York City 2, Quebec City, Chicago 2
2018: Seattle 1 & 2, Boston 1 & 2
2022: New York City 2, Camden
2023: St. Paul 1 & 2, Chicago 2, Austin 1 & 2
You stayed up half the night thinking about Eddie?
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Worcester 1 & 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Hartford, Baltimore
2014: Oslo, Gdynia, Leeds, Cincinnati, St. Paul, Milwaukee
2015: New York City, Mexico City
2016: Miami, Columbia, New York City 2, Quebec City, Chicago 2
2018: Seattle 1 & 2, Boston 1 & 2
2022: New York City 2, Camden
2023: St. Paul 1 & 2, Chicago 2, Austin 1 & 2
Or even in american festivals have the boring way of "reserved seating" ?
Atlanta, Music Midtown, 2012
São Paulo, Lollapalooza, 2013
Oh, I see...
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Worcester 1 & 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Hartford, Baltimore
2014: Oslo, Gdynia, Leeds, Cincinnati, St. Paul, Milwaukee
2015: New York City, Mexico City
2016: Miami, Columbia, New York City 2, Quebec City, Chicago 2
2018: Seattle 1 & 2, Boston 1 & 2
2022: New York City 2, Camden
2023: St. Paul 1 & 2, Chicago 2, Austin 1 & 2
I don't know how it's going to be set up at the Philly Festival, but at the Atlanta Festival you can definitely get a good spot if you get there early. The VIPs get the side view of the stage, so if you are there early enough you can get a much better spot than the VIPs.
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Worcester 1 & 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Hartford, Baltimore
2014: Oslo, Gdynia, Leeds, Cincinnati, St. Paul, Milwaukee
2015: New York City, Mexico City
2016: Miami, Columbia, New York City 2, Quebec City, Chicago 2
2018: Seattle 1 & 2, Boston 1 & 2
2022: New York City 2, Camden
2023: St. Paul 1 & 2, Chicago 2, Austin 1 & 2
FUCKYEAAHHH thank you
Atlanta, Music Midtown, 2012
São Paulo, Lollapalooza, 2013
vip having side stage isnt a def..i forgot which one deluna or midtown but there vips are front of the stage some other shows have side vip some have raised platforms its not def side of the stage theres a few diff options..and for this show theres 2 diff class of vips so dont know if there will be 2 diff vip areas
Check out this map:
(PJ will play on the Electric Ballroom Stage - bottom of the map)
http://musicmidtown.com/2012/wp-content ... 8.5x11.pdf
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Worcester 1 & 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Hartford, Baltimore
2014: Oslo, Gdynia, Leeds, Cincinnati, St. Paul, Milwaukee
2015: New York City, Mexico City
2016: Miami, Columbia, New York City 2, Quebec City, Chicago 2
2018: Seattle 1 & 2, Boston 1 & 2
2022: New York City 2, Camden
2023: St. Paul 1 & 2, Chicago 2, Austin 1 & 2
my point was that just cause its side stage there doesnt mean its side stage for philly..which is what i thought you were answering the question about
I did say I didn't know what was the set up like for Philly.
I know, I know... this is not the Atlanta thread but I still mentioned it.
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Worcester 1 & 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Hartford, Baltimore
2014: Oslo, Gdynia, Leeds, Cincinnati, St. Paul, Milwaukee
2015: New York City, Mexico City
2016: Miami, Columbia, New York City 2, Quebec City, Chicago 2
2018: Seattle 1 & 2, Boston 1 & 2
2022: New York City 2, Camden
2023: St. Paul 1 & 2, Chicago 2, Austin 1 & 2
2013: Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Chicago, Worcester 1 & 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Hartford, Baltimore
2014: Oslo, Gdynia, Leeds, Cincinnati, St. Paul, Milwaukee
2015: New York City, Mexico City
2016: Miami, Columbia, New York City 2, Quebec City, Chicago 2
2018: Seattle 1 & 2, Boston 1 & 2
2022: New York City 2, Camden
2023: St. Paul 1 & 2, Chicago 2, Austin 1 & 2
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
This whole thing feels rushed and there are A LOT of unanswered questions:
Is Pearl Jam playing both days?
If not, what day are they playing?
Will single day tickets be available?
Tickets are onsale before the artist list is complete....seriously?
And what is this B.S. of tickets getting more expensive as the show gets closer?
There was no indication that the $99 tickets were limited to a presale ONLY and you had to go to Budweiser's facebook page( great if was a 20y.o. college student - how about an email Ten Club?)
The price jumped 50% literally over night and it's gonna jump up again and AGAIN without notification.
How the hell are you supposed to plan for this with SOOOO MANY unknowns?
The official website is LACKING at best.
WTF?
are you talking about the El?
I sent you a pm, need a little more detail to best answer your question