After I posted this I asked my FOUR year old what a camel is. She went and got crayons and drew one. Then on the way to daycare she told me the difference between boy and girl cardinals.
My point is that every one of these kids is twice her age. They should know what a camel is!
Perhaps these children did not go to qualified daycare and preschool
where most of the animal recognition is learned before kindergarten.
Perhaps their parents didn't read books identifying animals...
with camels included
I can't stand Florida - so much about that state bothers me whenever I'm there. Can't really cite specifics - just a feeling I get when I'm down there that "this place is a shithole." Sorry Floridians, but that's how I feel.
Probably not the best general statement to say that "kids are dumb" but Florida is known for having mediocre schools, which can only be expected from decades of piss poor education funding. Companies that want to set up shop in Florida are stymied by the lack of qualified job applicants because the state, as mentioned previously, is only interested in tourism.
After I posted this I asked my FOUR year old what a camel is. She went and got crayons and drew one. Then on the way to daycare she told me the difference between boy and girl cardinals.
My point is that every one of these kids is twice her age. They should know what a camel is!
Perhaps these children did not go to qualified daycare and preschool
where most of the animal recognition is learned before kindergarten.
Perhaps their parents didn't read books identifying animals...
with camels included
I think you're harping on the camel thing too much. I imagine the poor scores were more related to poor grammar & spelling than knowing what a camel is.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
What I find a bit concerting is lowering the performance standard to the lowest common denominator instead of upping the standards in class...
Now the title of this thread might be a bit flippant because I don't think the kids are dumb but it sure does reflect negatively on parenting, lifestyle and the education system.
Oh lordy, this - first part, especially.
And pandora, I think imagination starts with a spark, not necessarily knowledge - probably likely not, as a child. Like laying in the grass as a kid and looking at the clouds - seeing something in them, describing it, getting excited about it. That doesn't come from knowledge, it comes from a totally different place - though it can spur the desire to learn more. This should be encouraged.
As far as creative writing, it saddens me that this is going by the wayside. "wat r u doing?" "dtf!" This shit stifles the process of thinking, of true communication.
"what are words for, when no one listens anymore?"
After I posted this I asked my FOUR year old what a camel is. She went and got crayons and drew one. Then on the way to daycare she told me the difference between boy and girl cardinals.
My point is that every one of these kids is twice her age. They should know what a camel is!
Perhaps these children did not go to qualified daycare and preschool
where most of the animal recognition is learned before kindergarten.
Perhaps their parents didn't read books identifying animals...
with camels included
I think you're harping on the camel thing too much. I imagine the poor scores were more related to poor grammar & spelling than knowing what a camel is.
really oh great end of debate
perhaps some here thought they were dumb for not knowing what a camel was
I never thought they were dumb ... still don't.
What I find a bit concerting is lowering the performance standard to the lowest common denominator instead of upping the standards in class...
Now the title of this thread might be a bit flippant because I don't think the kids are dumb but it sure does reflect negatively on parenting, lifestyle and the education system.
Oh lordy, this - first part, especially.
And pandora, I think imagination starts with a spark, not necessarily knowledge - probably likely not, as a child. Like laying in the grass as a kid and looking at the clouds - seeing something in them, describing it, getting excited about it. That doesn't come from knowledge, it comes from a totally different place - though it can spur the desire to learn more. This should be encouraged.
As far as creative writing, it saddens me that this is going by the wayside. "wat r u doing?" "dtf!" This shit stifles the process of thinking, of true communication.
"what are words for, when no one listens anymore?"
I agree but then given the assignment what do you see in clouds
you'd have to know what clouds are first to know what you saw imaginary or otherwise
I read an expression that said: "Florida is a great place to keep Floridians."
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
I agree but then given the assignment what do you see in clouds
you'd have to know what clouds are first to know what you saw imaginary or otherwise
How does a kid not know what clouds are??
This is my point - rudimentary knowledge that children can / should have at some point.
...and actually, it's not my only point. What about babies with those colorful mobiles hanging above their cribs? Pointless since they have no clue what it is, or useful in that it gets that little teeny-tiny "hey, what the fuck is this spinning above me" thought going?
This is my point - rudimentary knowledge that children can / should have at some point.
Even if you don't have this rudimentary knowledge (in this case what a camel is). Creative writing is just that - someone already said there is no 'wrong answer' here. A kid may not know what a camel is but it was about a 'ride' on something and a trip. I'm sure one can image what it would be like and what one could see during this trip. There are all kinds of creative ways around this. I think this focus on the camel is just a 'diversion' and maybe an excuse for poor standards.
Post edited by redrock on
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,428
The sad thing is, education in America in general is weak and this is nothing new. In my first semester in college (in the fall of 1969) I asked a kid I met in the dorms what his favorite book was. He said, "I don't know- I've never read an entire book." I asked, "How did you get into college?" and he answered, "I don't know."
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
if a child is not taught what clouds are or camels are most can not imagine anything about them
enough to create a story.
To understand one must think like a 4th grader who is being tested on something they know nothing about. And what a hinderance that alone is on creativity.
Can't rationalize like an adult but must put yourself in the child's place.
For me though not knowing what a camel is sits at the bottom of the list as to importance
for children and education.
I think everyone agrees its the teachers/ adults fault in the kids lives in this case.
I agree Brianlux. When I compare my non catholic school education in the US and in Europe, the difference is incredible. I know, this is a generalisation - good and bad schools everywhere - but overall...
At one time, my cousin (in the US) and I (in Belgium) were studying the same subject. Knowledge he acquired in two years was not as much (level and diversity) as I did in the first year.
The sad thing is, education in America in general is weak and this is nothing new. In my first semester in college (in the fall of 1969) I asked a kid I met in the dorms what his favorite book was. He said, "I don't know- I've never read an entire book." I asked, "How did you get into college?" and he answered, "I don't know."
What's also scary is that I only read 1 book before I got to college (1992). My reading comprehension was terrible. I struggled my first few years of college because of this, but I caught up. So the trend continued...
I took regular classes in HS, hovering around a 3.2 gpa. I decided to try to get into advanced English classes for an additional challenge, and my counselor wouldnt let me.
The sad thing is, education in America in general is weak and this is nothing new. In my first semester in college (in the fall of 1969) I asked a kid I met in the dorms what his favorite book was. He said, "I don't know- I've never read an entire book." I asked, "How did you get into college?" and he answered, "I don't know."
Wow. And look at what you do now for a living. Good on ya!
My parents were avid readers - we had so many books as children, both those that they read to us and those we searched out for ourselves. (Saturday mornings at the library was a tradition.)
Something immensely satisfying about the mental side of it, coupled with the physical - holding the book, that moment of getting to the end of a page, fingers at the bottom, ready to turn, then the turn to the next page. Like a wonderful form of gluttony - can't suck it in quickly enough.
Big C
Little c
What begins with C?
Camel on the Ceiling
C C C
My son's obsessed with this book.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
I moved to Florida from New York. (Specifically from one of the best school districts in the country btw.) I've noticed that the schools aren't as good down here.
I teach children and young men and women in Florida all the time.
They are not dumb.
The private school students are excellent.
The ones that are home schooled can be well-educated (or not) when they come into college.
The ones that attend public schools can be well-educated (or not) when they enter college.
Once they get there though, they either live up to the challenge or don't. The way they enter college is a reflection of their previous experiences.
When they start to move forward from there though, they learn just as quickly as everyone else.
Don't call the kids dumb. They aren't!!
I now live here in South Florida, Plam Beach County moving from the DC Metro area....what has happened here can happen in any other state in this country. Now in my experience here in the past 6 years is that in elementary schools the children aren't challenged enough, as far as I can see it's far too easy to pass children through especially if they have any athletic talent. As far as my children and step children were not challenged in elemetary school until HS and the medical academy he attends averaging 3.1-3.5 two years in taking AP courses. My daughter slightly better with even more difficult college level AP courses same course I took in college.
The last one has had A's from the beginning Academic sports all american/honor society and starts HS next year. He attends a magnet school in a medical academy (home sick as a dog downstairs) who took testing to attend the private school American Heritage. He didn't do well on the test (college level test) but was given a 50% scholarship based on his acdemics and his football skills.
My point here is that NOT ALL children here in Florida are dumb....we have the brightest of the bright and we have the not so bright to the outright lazy wealthy and poor kids attending schools. The KEY to me is what these children see at home and how they can be DRIVEN to be educated from HOME. It has to be backed from home along with what is taught in the schools. I think that's what has made the difference here in our home and what can make the difference outside our home, I think they can do more but none of them are dinks thank goodness.
I think using a camel was appropriate rather than let's say an alligator with this being Florida. It's an imagitive essay which should mean to critically think out side of your realm of thought. At the very least they should know it's animal and if so imagine it has four legs then imagine it's like a horse and horses can be taken for a ride then imagine what that would be like. If nothing else imagine what happens when you ride a bike and what THAT was like when you rode it for the very first time. Grant you bringing all of that thought at the time of testing is difficult but so if life....these children need to be challenged and EXPOSED to the wide world outside of what they know. They are lucky these days they can do just that on a computer like we do here.
The majority of children here in Florida are not any dumber than in any other state they could have been asked to ride a Yak, Llama, or an Ostrich.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
"if your kid can't read it's mommy's fault. if the kid can't read because there are no lights in the house, that's daddy's fault..."
parent- "what is four plus four??"
kid- "jello!!"
"if your kid is dumb, you ain't saving college money, you saving BAIL money!"
i am thinking that it is the parent's responsibility to teach them basic things like what animals are what. are there no zoos in florida? are there no nature shows on tv there? are there not those awesome cards with the animals' pictures on them that they used to advertise on tv? is there no internet website devoted to animals? if i could go look books up in a library as a 9 year old, these kids can certainly google "camel".
to me it just seems like kids are not interested in things like animals these days. otherwise they would have an idea what a camel is.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I think you're harping on the camel thing too much. I imagine the poor scores were more related to poor grammar & spelling than knowing what a camel is.
nebraska, missouri, arkansas, wyoming, iowa, and many other states are not global tourist destinations. florida state's money is geared towards tourism (and disneyland) and old blue hairs retirement centers and health care that is about to crumble i'm sure.
83% of floridians are from Cuba and other locales. only 47 people 77 years old and older were actually birthed in the swamp state that will soon be under sea water. technically florida isn't even soil. they drained the fucker, torn down mangroves here and transplanted them elsewhere. canal after bloody canal.
if you dig in your yard you will find seashells.
florida does not gives a fat rat's ass about schooling our children any better than barely scraping by
but boy oh boy do they have some fine tan femininity lying around
Comments
where most of the animal recognition is learned before kindergarten.
Perhaps their parents didn't read books identifying animals...
with camels included
I think you're harping on the camel thing too much. I imagine the poor scores were more related to poor grammar & spelling than knowing what a camel is.
Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
And pandora, I think imagination starts with a spark, not necessarily knowledge - probably likely not, as a child. Like laying in the grass as a kid and looking at the clouds - seeing something in them, describing it, getting excited about it. That doesn't come from knowledge, it comes from a totally different place - though it can spur the desire to learn more. This should be encouraged.
As far as creative writing, it saddens me that this is going by the wayside. "wat r u doing?" "dtf!" This shit stifles the process of thinking, of true communication.
"what are words for, when no one listens anymore?"
perhaps some here thought they were dumb for not knowing what a camel was
I never thought they were dumb ... still don't.
you'd have to know what clouds are first to know what you saw imaginary or otherwise
Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
This is my point - rudimentary knowledge that children can / should have at some point.
...and actually, it's not my only point. What about babies with those colorful mobiles hanging above their cribs? Pointless since they have no clue what it is, or useful in that it gets that little teeny-tiny "hey, what the fuck is this spinning above me" thought going?
Even if you don't have this rudimentary knowledge (in this case what a camel is). Creative writing is just that - someone already said there is no 'wrong answer' here. A kid may not know what a camel is but it was about a 'ride' on something and a trip. I'm sure one can image what it would be like and what one could see during this trip. There are all kinds of creative ways around this. I think this focus on the camel is just a 'diversion' and maybe an excuse for poor standards.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I hear more often: We get our state back every April when the NY'ers go home.
enough to create a story.
To understand one must think like a 4th grader who is being tested on something they know nothing about. And what a hinderance that alone is on creativity.
Can't rationalize like an adult but must put yourself in the child's place.
For me though not knowing what a camel is sits at the bottom of the list as to importance
for children and education.
I think everyone agrees its the teachers/ adults fault in the kids lives in this case.
At one time, my cousin (in the US) and I (in Belgium) were studying the same subject. Knowledge he acquired in two years was not as much (level and diversity) as I did in the first year.
What's also scary is that I only read 1 book before I got to college (1992). My reading comprehension was terrible. I struggled my first few years of college because of this, but I caught up. So the trend continued...
I took regular classes in HS, hovering around a 3.2 gpa. I decided to try to get into advanced English classes for an additional challenge, and my counselor wouldnt let me.
This was Florida, of course.
My parents were avid readers - we had so many books as children, both those that they read to us and those we searched out for ourselves. (Saturday mornings at the library was a tradition.)
Something immensely satisfying about the mental side of it, coupled with the physical - holding the book, that moment of getting to the end of a page, fingers at the bottom, ready to turn, then the turn to the next page. Like a wonderful form of gluttony - can't suck it in quickly enough.
And the smell of the paper! Beloved.
(sorry for the side-track!)
(if you edit your original post, you can change the title if you want to)
Tried. Too long.
My son's obsessed with this book.
Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
I now live here in South Florida, Plam Beach County moving from the DC Metro area....what has happened here can happen in any other state in this country. Now in my experience here in the past 6 years is that in elementary schools the children aren't challenged enough, as far as I can see it's far too easy to pass children through especially if they have any athletic talent. As far as my children and step children were not challenged in elemetary school until HS and the medical academy he attends averaging 3.1-3.5 two years in taking AP courses. My daughter slightly better with even more difficult college level AP courses same course I took in college.
The last one has had A's from the beginning Academic sports all american/honor society and starts HS next year. He attends a magnet school in a medical academy (home sick as a dog downstairs) who took testing to attend the private school American Heritage. He didn't do well on the test (college level test) but was given a 50% scholarship based on his acdemics and his football skills.
My point here is that NOT ALL children here in Florida are dumb....we have the brightest of the bright and we have the not so bright to the outright lazy wealthy and poor kids attending schools. The KEY to me is what these children see at home and how they can be DRIVEN to be educated from HOME. It has to be backed from home along with what is taught in the schools. I think that's what has made the difference here in our home and what can make the difference outside our home, I think they can do more but none of them are dinks thank goodness.
I think using a camel was appropriate rather than let's say an alligator with this being Florida. It's an imagitive essay which should mean to critically think out side of your realm of thought. At the very least they should know it's animal and if so imagine it has four legs then imagine it's like a horse and horses can be taken for a ride then imagine what that would be like. If nothing else imagine what happens when you ride a bike and what THAT was like when you rode it for the very first time. Grant you bringing all of that thought at the time of testing is difficult but so if life....these children need to be challenged and EXPOSED to the wide world outside of what they know. They are lucky these days they can do just that on a computer like we do here.
The majority of children here in Florida are not any dumber than in any other state they could have been asked to ride a Yak, Llama, or an Ostrich.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Sheeesh .... we have become our own worst enemy.
"if your kid can't read it's mommy's fault. if the kid can't read because there are no lights in the house, that's daddy's fault..."
parent- "what is four plus four??"
kid- "jello!!"
"if your kid is dumb, you ain't saving college money, you saving BAIL money!"
i am thinking that it is the parent's responsibility to teach them basic things like what animals are what. are there no zoos in florida? are there no nature shows on tv there? are there not those awesome cards with the animals' pictures on them that they used to advertise on tv? is there no internet website devoted to animals? if i could go look books up in a library as a 9 year old, these kids can certainly google "camel".
to me it just seems like kids are not interested in things like animals these days. otherwise they would have an idea what a camel is.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
83% of floridians are from Cuba and other locales. only 47 people 77 years old and older were actually birthed in the swamp state that will soon be under sea water. technically florida isn't even soil. they drained the fucker, torn down mangroves here and transplanted them elsewhere. canal after bloody canal.
if you dig in your yard you will find seashells.
florida does not gives a fat rat's ass about schooling our children any better than barely scraping by
but boy oh boy do they have some fine tan femininity lying around
http://wakeboardingmag.com/files/2010/1 ... 33x500.jpg = well worth clicking. was to large to post picture here
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce