I get what you're saying, but cooking good food healthfully is really, really expensive. Partly because non-processed foods and healthfully-sourced fish are pretty expensive, but also because of the waste (the amount of produce my wife and I throw out because we can't finish it before it goes bad is embarrassing).
I am not sure I buy cost of healthy food as a valid excuse. I mean sure shopping at a place like Whole Foods and only buying super healthy food is of course super expensive compared to a quarter pounder value meal. But buying moderatly healthy food is way cheaper than hitting up McDonalds. I mean you can pick up things like bags of frozen vegatbles or rice, or cans of tuna or beans or even chicken pieces or eggs, at the grocery store for super cheap. I mean yes those things are the most healthy things in the world but a meal of chicken, rice and some steamed frozen vegatables is way more healthy and cheaper than eating a big mac. But ordering a big mac or a pizza is easier so I think a lot of that comes down to lazyness.
Many moons back there was a thread that posed the question of limiting what can be purchased with food stamps, such as soda pop and junk food (my thought was that if 7/11 sold it, it was off limits like alcohol and tobacco ). That is one step. (although people argued that stripped the individual of choice).
As for schools serving crap .... well, if the teachers and educators cannot band together and figure out how to fix that issue, we may be truly screwed.
We need better information on food products ... although the people that will heed the warnings and labels are probably due-diligent in choosing their food presently.
The big issue is overcoming all the entertainment choices that technology presents us. We can hang out with our friends without actually physically hanging out with them. iPhones, iPads, video games, 3-D TV .... sadly, that trumps kicking a ball around or climbing a tree to a kid .... and an adult.
If all else fails, we can always go back to shame and humiliation as tactics.
I get what you're saying, but cooking good food healthfully is really, really expensive. Partly because non-processed foods and healthfully-sourced fish are pretty expensive, but also because of the waste (the amount of produce my wife and I throw out because we can't finish it before it goes bad is embarrassing).
I am not sure I buy cost of healthy food as a valid excuse. I mean sure shopping at a place like Whole Foods and only buying super healthy food is of course super expensive compared to a quarter pounder value meal. But buying moderatly healthy food is way cheaper than hitting up McDonalds. I mean you can pick up things like bags of frozen vegatbles or rice, or cans of tuna or beans or even chicken pieces or eggs, at the grocery store for super cheap. I mean yes those things are the most healthy things in the world but a meal of chicken, rice and some steamed frozen vegatables is way more healthy and cheaper than eating a big mac. But ordering a big mac or a pizza is easier so I think a lot of that comes down to lazyness.
I, too, disagree with the idea that healthy food is so/too expensive. Buy some whole wheat pasta, zucchini, carrots, eggplant, and serve!
Many moons back there was a thread that posed the question of limiting what can be purchased with food stamps, such as soda pop and junk food (my thought was that if 7/11 sold it, it was off limits like alcohol and tobacco ). That is one step. (although people argued that stripped the individual of choice).
As for schools serving crap .... well, if the teachers and educators cannot band together and figure out how to fix that issue, we may be truly screwed.
We need better information on food products ... although the people that will heed the warnings and labels are probably due-diligent in choosing their food presently.
The big issue is overcoming all the entertainment choices that technology presents us. We can hang out with our friends without actually physically hanging out with them. iPhones, iPads, video games, 3-D TV .... sadly, that trumps kicking a ball around or climbing a tree to a kid .... and an adult.
If all else fails, we can always go back to shame and humiliation as tactics.
I get what you're saying, but cooking good food healthfully is really, really expensive. Partly because non-processed foods and healthfully-sourced fish are pretty expensive, but also because of the waste (the amount of produce my wife and I throw out because we can't finish it before it goes bad is embarrassing).
I am not sure I buy cost of healthy food as a valid excuse. I mean sure shopping at a place like Whole Foods and only buying super healthy food is of course super expensive compared to a quarter pounder value meal. But buying moderatly healthy food is way cheaper than hitting up McDonalds. I mean you can pick up things like bags of frozen vegatbles or rice, or cans of tuna or beans or even chicken pieces or eggs, at the grocery store for super cheap. I mean yes those things are the most healthy things in the world but a meal of chicken, rice and some steamed frozen vegatables is way more healthy and cheaper than eating a big mac. But ordering a big mac or a pizza is easier so I think a lot of that comes down to lazyness.
I, too, disagree with the idea that healthy food is so/too expensive. Buy some whole wheat pasta, zucchini, carrots, eggplant, and serve!
I don't know where you are shopping fast food is cheap you can not cook for the same
yeah I bet my nephew would love that eggplant mess true I think Moms are tired after their 10 hour days
to tired to shop cook cleanup lug the kids to practice finish the laundry help the kids with homework give them a bath
of course people are choosing fast and easy but there are some healthier options there now
Is the Apple iPad in cahoots with Pfizer and Frito Lay? Is it a good sign when the NFL or your Nintendo Wii have to beg kids to go outside and play for 60 minutes? As I mentioned earlier, my childhood diet consisted of Slim Jims, Tombstone pizza's, and Doritos. But my parents damn near had to send out search parties to drag me back into the house at night and for some strange reason, I was not overweight.
you said cahoots. i love that word.
drive thru restaurants.. why do we need them? if you really want the food at least be bothered to get out of your car and go get it. might even slow you down a bit and give you time to think.
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I don't know where you are shopping fast food is cheap you can not cook for the same
yeah I bet my nephew would love that eggplant mess true I think Moms are tired after their 10 hour days
to tired to shop cook cleanup lug the kids to practice finish the laundry help the kids with homework give them a bath
of course people are choosing fast and easy but there are some healthier options there now
and this just about says it all. society has created the situation where parents, both mothers and fathers are soemtimes so stressed for lack of time that it becomes so easy to just buy fast food. and theres no doubting the kids love it.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I don't know where you are shopping fast food is cheap you can not cook for the same
yeah I bet my nephew would love that eggplant mess true I think Moms are tired after their 10 hour days
to tired to shop cook cleanup lug the kids to practice finish the laundry help the kids with homework give them a bath
of course people are choosing fast and easy but there are some healthier options there now
Of course, what you stated is true. People--both parents--are working longer hours, sometimes two jobs, so going through the druve-thru is far more convenient (a word/concept that may be crippling our society in ways) than cooking a healthy meal at home. So, we are back to the socioeconomic argument.
I don't know where you are shopping fast food is cheap you can not cook for the same
yeah I bet my nephew would love that eggplant mess true I think Moms are tired after their 10 hour days
to tired to shop cook cleanup lug the kids to practice finish the laundry help the kids with homework give them a bath
of course people are choosing fast and easy but there are some healthier options there now
and this just about says it all. society has created the situation where parents, both mothers and fathers are soemtimes so stressed for lack of time that it becomes so easy to just buy fast food. and theres no doubting the kids love it.
Sorry, cafefrances, it looks like we were typing the same thing at the same time!!
I don't know where you are shopping fast food is cheap you can not cook for the same
yeah I bet my nephew would love that eggplant mess true I think Moms are tired after their 10 hour days
to tired to shop cook cleanup lug the kids to practice finish the laundry help the kids with homework give them a bath
of course people are choosing fast and easy but there are some healthier options there now
and this just about says it all. society has created the situation where parents, both mothers and fathers are soemtimes so stressed for lack of time that it becomes so easy to just buy fast food. and theres no doubting the kids love it.
Sorry, cafefrances, it looks like we were typing the same thing at the same time!!
just great minds thinking alike.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Individual responsibility keeps coming up but what about corporate responsibility? Do they just get off the hook because that's the way business works? We are wired for three tastes - fat, sugar, salt. What do you think are the main ingredients in fast food? The processed food at the grocery store has nearly unrecognizable ingredient lists. Groups are trying to get the government and corporations to label foods that are GMO and the food industry is fighting this. How are we supposed to make better choices when they won't give us all the information? I certainly believe in personal responsbility and as a working mother I cook all the food for my family regardless of how tired I am; I have made a deal with my kids - the candy they get at school as rewards for money. But it has to be equal responsibility for everyone not just us an individuals.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
We all make choices, individually... yes. Now, does marketing influences some of us to buy bad products? Sure. Does the fat surrounding our guts influence us to try to avoid bad products? Sure. Does lack of friends to play sports influence us? Sure. Does good parenting help us to avoid bad products? Sure. Does lack of high salary help adults steer away from organic food? Sure. There's so many things one could "deflect" this problem to...
...But, at the end of the day - for those 18+, WE do make choices as INDIVIDUALS to put pieces of food inside our mouths, chew it, then swallow.
so we just leave everything we learned and lived with before we were 18 behind? i don't agree at all.
Nope.
Not saying we leave everything we learned or lived with before we were 18 behind. Instead, I'd argue, our parents, or the people raising us, are primarily responsible for what we eat in our youngest years. That said, even pre-18, say at the age of 12 we are making some of own decisions. Our parents, or those who raise us, steer us in the beginning. It's originally their responsibility (say 0-10), then it becomes mixed (10-18), then it becomes ours alone (post-18).... who knows... we may be responsible for our own child's down the line (if we have one) too. ...
Responsibility is a tough subject for deflectionists to grasp.
so let me get this straight, every individual has a timer on them that says when they become responsible for their own behavior, and it starts at exactly the same point in everyone's life cycle? how oversimplistic and absolutely absurd. it's funny that you call me a deflectionist as I am writing a presentation on the collision of being self-responsible, political, and interventionist and the contradictions that we all live with. of course it's easier to sleep at night if we only criticize one (for you the individual, for me the system), and don't think about the other. in other words are you any less deflectionist (just in a different way) when you deny the a/effects a neoliberal economy has on shaping people's behavior and responsibility (or lack thereof)?
i mean jason p just put it out there: under the auspices of corporate capitalism companies like pizza hut have to infiltrate the minds of children (before they are responsible for their behavior based on your complex timeline) in order to stay in business. if this were not effective wouldn't they stop doing it? however, he claims that he gained weight because he's less active. although the idea that we are less active as a society is fallacious (we are actually more active than ever before), for him, as an individual, this is because work (he needs to make money to be able to keep eating shitty food) and other personal issues have come in the way. plus as he outlines playstation only stays on the market if it sells more, same with pharma companies, gym memberships, and food companies - so the underlying thread here is that capitalism creates the context from which individuals choose to behave.
i say it's silly just to blame the individual when it's clearly a systemic problem that creates a situation whereby individuals have the opportunity to make poor choices. this doesn't mean that i'm taking the blame away from individuals, it means that the responsibility is shared between the system and the individual. however, to criticize the system in your worldview is heretic it seems.
Individual responsibility keeps coming up but what about corporate responsibility? Do they just get off the hook because that's the way business works? We are wired for three tastes - fat, sugar, salt. What do you think are the main ingredients in fast food? The processed food at the grocery store has nearly unrecognizable ingredient lists. Groups are trying to get the government and corporations to label foods that are GMO and the food industry is fighting this. How are we supposed to make better choices when they won't give us all the information? I certainly believe in personal responsbility and as a working mother I cook all the food for my family regardless of how tired I am; I have made a deal with my kids - the candy they get at school as rewards for money. But it has to be equal responsibility for everyone not just us an individuals.
this is what i'm talking about...plus not all individuals are operating from the same base. i mean the working mom in baltimore city has to walk or ride the bus for miles just to get to a decent grocery store. imagine having to do that after working a long day, then coming home and cooking? i guess compassion for others is tough to do when one lives a relatively privileged life.
this is what i'm talking about...plus not all individuals are operating from the same base. i mean the working mom in baltimore city has to walk or ride the bus for miles just to get to a decent grocery store. imagine having to do that after working a long day, then coming home and cooking? i guess compassion for others is tough to do when one lives a relatively privileged life.
Going to a grocery store is now considered part of being privledged???
Well, ohh la la. Looks like I will need to start breaking for afternoon tea now that I appear to have reached the upper edges of high society.
this is what i'm talking about...plus not all individuals are operating from the same base. i mean the working mom in baltimore city has to walk or ride the bus for miles just to get to a decent grocery store. imagine having to do that after working a long day, then coming home and cooking? i guess compassion for others is tough to do when one lives a relatively privileged life.
Going to a grocery store is now considered part of being privledged???
Well, ohh la la. Looks like I will need to start breaking for afternoon tea now that I appear to have reached the upper edges of high society.
let me take you to west baltimore and you will see liquor stores, and kennedy fried chickens as far as the eye can see, but grocery stores - nope - you gotta have a car for that.
so let me get this straight, every individual has a timer on them that says when they become responsible for their own behavior, and it starts at exactly the same point in everyone's life cycle? how oversimplistic and absolutely absurd. .
No, I wouldn't say it's exactly the same for everyone. I'd say it's roughly around those points. Regardless of the age, there is always someone responsible (parent or child or mix). I know you dislike the thought of personal responsibility. You want to blame markets, capitalism and broader elements.... which I think (and know) is oversimplisitic and absolutely absurd. Capitalism, markets and broader elements don't put the food you eat in your mouth, chew it, and swallow for you.... You do.
it's funny that you call me a deflectionist as I am writing a presentation on the collision of being self-responsible, political, and interventionist and the contradictions that we all live with. .
No offense - I don't care what you're writing about and have no clue why this was brought up.
of course it's easier to sleep at night if we only criticize one (for you the individual, for me the system), and don't think about the other. .
Ironically, I've already said marketing can affect "preferences", for better or worse nutritionally. I've also said big government bodies like the FDA, tend to be corrupt, which can alter food safety. So, yes government and capitalism can have some effect on food. But, it's not like food that's nutritious is not available. Even at McDonalds they now have apple slices, etc. They may not be the best, but there's "more" nutritious options at fast food eateries than there once was. Regardless of the aforementioned, it's still the individual (or the parent, or both) that kinda is responsible in the long run. They make the final decision to walk into McDonalds, avoid the apple slices and choose the large fry. That's what you want to avoid.
in other words are you any less deflectionist (just in a different way) when you deny the a/effects a neoliberal economy has on shaping people's behavior and responsibility (or lack thereof)? .
No, I'm not. Once again, I admit that preferences may be semi-altered by capitalistic marketing. But, I also KNOW the individual makes the final say. I've never seen neoliberal economies literally put their hands on food and shove it in people's mouths and force them to swallow.
As for you, yes you seem to be a deflectionist. You seem to blame capitalism for individual decisions. Your focus have been completely OUTSIDE the scope of the person who chews the food. It's as if individuals have no choice to put food in their mouths and swallow. They may have less options, but they still have choice.
i mean jason p just put it out there: under the auspices of corporate capitalism companies like pizza hut have to infiltrate the minds of children (before they are responsible for their behavior based on your complex timeline) in order to stay in business. if this were not effective wouldn't they stop doing it? .
I don't know why you tend to go so far out there. Re-read everything I've written. Of course marketing sways behavior. But, you seem to believe that nutritional marketing does not. I say that's BS. Tons of examples of movement towards nutrition are available, even in fast food. At the end of the day, fatty food ads and nutrional ads should be allowed. And people should be able to decide. I see nothing wrong with being swayed to have a burger now and again. If you're responsible for your own actions, you'll know that you can afford that every now and again.
however, he claims that he gained weight because he's less active. although the idea that we are less active as a society is fallacious (we are actually more active than ever before), for him, as an individual, this is because work (he needs to make money to be able to keep eating shitty food) and other personal issues have come in the way. plus as he outlines playstation only stays on the market if it sells more, same with pharma companies, gym memberships, and food companies - so the underlying thread here is that capitalism creates the context from which individuals choose to behave. .
I know what you're getting at, but simply disagree on certain points. I agree with you that we're more active now. But, people, particularly in America eat worse, or have for a long time. Many (NOT ALL) parents grew up with a lack of personal responsibility for what they ate, or lack of knowledge of the effects. My point is that's individualized, and in my opinion, is starting to change. Why? Well, people are learning it's bad for them. Markets are responding to this change in demand for nutritious products. For example, my wife and I get organic vegetables delivered to our house. Several years back, we would not have "demanded" that, nor would an organization exist that would deliver that to your doorstep. That's capitalism/markets and that's good. It's not markets' fault. Capitalism or free-markets don't create demand, they respond to it.
i say it's silly just to blame the individual when it's clearly a systemic problem that creates a situation whereby individuals have the opportunity to make poor choices. this doesn't mean that i'm taking the blame away from individuals, it means that the responsibility is shared between the system and the individual. however, to criticize the system in your worldview is heretic it seems.
Individuals make poor decisions every day. I suppose you'd like to ban the possibility of poor decisions? How would you do that,... with an FDA-like body? ha ha.
I say individuals are capable of making poor decisions. I don't think it's the system's fault for their poor decisions. And further, I think there's absolutely no way "the system" or "government" or "anyone" can stop poor decisions from occurring. I mean, you really need to think through what you're saying. Should we ban alcohol? In that light, your argument seems to say that capitalism is creating liver problems from alcohol. It's not the person who drinks a fifth of whiskey every night or even his addiction, it's capitalism.
I'd just like to remind everyone, whatever you think is the issue, not to hate fat people. I know and read of SO many people who just despise them, say terrible things about them, and it's really really really mean. Don't be a fat people hater. Be generous and accepting of all good, decent people, fat or thin.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
i mean jason p just put it out there: under the auspices of corporate capitalism companies like pizza hut have to infiltrate the minds of children (before they are responsible for their behavior based on your complex timeline) in order to stay in business. if this were not effective wouldn't they stop doing it? however, he claims that he gained weight because he's less active. although the idea that we are less active as a society is fallacious (we are actually more active than ever before), for him, as an individual, this is because work (he needs to make money to be able to keep eating shitty food) and other personal issues have come in the way. plus as he outlines playstation only stays on the market if it sells more, same with pharma companies, gym memberships, and food companies - so the underlying thread here is that capitalism creates the context from which individuals choose to behave.
You make it sound like they used grappling hooks, dart guns, and clock-work orange mind-washing to get me to like their pizza. They put out a good product (not so much nowadays) with good service while giving back to the community. Advertising can only do so much and food isn't a status symbol. Ask the people running Burger King.
this is what i'm talking about...plus not all individuals are operating from the same base. i mean the working mom in baltimore city has to walk or ride the bus for miles just to get to a decent grocery store. imagine having to do that after working a long day, then coming home and cooking? i guess compassion for others is tough to do when one lives a relatively privileged life.
Going to a grocery store is now considered part of being privledged???
Well, ohh la la. Looks like I will need to start breaking for afternoon tea now that I appear to have reached the upper edges of high society.
let me take you to west baltimore and you will see liquor stores, and kennedy fried chickens as far as the eye can see, but grocery stores - nope - you gotta have a car for that.
LOL... Theres a reason why there aren't grocery stores in those places anymore. This same issue came up in Cincinnati a year or so ago, Krogers (at that location) hadn't made profit in a decade. Mainly due to shoplifting and there was no demand for fresh fruit and veggies... Why put something like grocery stores in an area where they loose money for decades because there IS NO DEMAND for healthy foods in that area...
There is also a reason why there are multiple liquor/fast food and cell phone stores in those areas...
I get what you're saying, but cooking good food healthfully is really, really expensive. Partly because non-processed foods and healthfully-sourced fish are pretty expensive, but also because of the waste (the amount of produce my wife and I throw out because we can't finish it before it goes bad is embarrassing).
I am not sure I buy cost of healthy food as a valid excuse. I mean sure shopping at a place like Whole Foods and only buying super healthy food is of course super expensive compared to a quarter pounder value meal. But buying moderatly healthy food is way cheaper than hitting up McDonalds. I mean you can pick up things like bags of frozen vegatbles or rice, or cans of tuna or beans or even chicken pieces or eggs, at the grocery store for super cheap. I mean yes those things are the most healthy things in the world but a meal of chicken, rice and some steamed frozen vegatables is way more healthy and cheaper than eating a big mac. But ordering a big mac or a pizza is easier so I think a lot of that comes down to lazyness.
Totally agree that there is a spectrum of prices for healthy(ier) food. Starting at the top -- fully organic, locally sourced, hand-massaged (haha), all that....then moving to whole foods type stuff...then the more basic rice/chicken/frozen veggies. I'd be interested to see if that last category is actually cheaper than a value meal and McDonald's. I'd be surprised if it were, but I don't know.
That aside, my initial point was more a rebuttal of RW's position that the mere existence of the profit motive in our food chain was enough to ensure that unhealthy options would always win out. The existence of (extremely) profitable companies selling healthy food belies that position somewhat.
Going to a grocery store is now considered part of being privledged???
Well, ohh la la. Looks like I will need to start breaking for afternoon tea now that I appear to have reached the upper edges of high society.
let me take you to west baltimore and you will see liquor stores, and kennedy fried chickens as far as the eye can see, but grocery stores - nope - you gotta have a car for that.
LOL... Theres a reason why there aren't grocery stores in those places anymore. This same issue came up in Cincinnati a year or so ago, Krogers (at that location) hadn't made profit in a decade. Mainly due to shoplifting and there was no demand for fresh fruit and veggies... Why put something like grocery stores in an area where they loose money for decades because there IS NO DEMAND for healthy foods in that area...
There is also a reason why there are multiple liquor/fast food and cell phone stores in those areas...
Good point. There aren't really any grocery stores in Manhattan either I noticed when I went. Just take out places, food carts (including a fruit and veggie cart or stand here and there), and restaurants. No one wants to cook much in NYC as far as I can tell, hence no Safeways.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Good point. There aren't really any grocery stores in Manhattan either I noticed when I went. Just take out places, food carts (including a fruit and veggie cart or stand here and there), and restaurants. No one wants to cook much in NYC as far as I can tell, hence no Safeways.
real estate is expensive in the manhattan ... most people will shop at smaller markets/stores ... having said that - the trader joes and whole foods does good business there ...
Comments
I am not sure I buy cost of healthy food as a valid excuse. I mean sure shopping at a place like Whole Foods and only buying super healthy food is of course super expensive compared to a quarter pounder value meal. But buying moderatly healthy food is way cheaper than hitting up McDonalds. I mean you can pick up things like bags of frozen vegatbles or rice, or cans of tuna or beans or even chicken pieces or eggs, at the grocery store for super cheap. I mean yes those things are the most healthy things in the world but a meal of chicken, rice and some steamed frozen vegatables is way more healthy and cheaper than eating a big mac. But ordering a big mac or a pizza is easier so I think a lot of that comes down to lazyness.
As for schools serving crap .... well, if the teachers and educators cannot band together and figure out how to fix that issue, we may be truly screwed.
We need better information on food products ... although the people that will heed the warnings and labels are probably due-diligent in choosing their food presently.
The big issue is overcoming all the entertainment choices that technology presents us. We can hang out with our friends without actually physically hanging out with them. iPhones, iPads, video games, 3-D TV .... sadly, that trumps kicking a ball around or climbing a tree to a kid .... and an adult.
If all else fails, we can always go back to shame and humiliation as tactics.
(hey, it worked to slow down smoking) :think:
1000 calories for 3 bucks feeds a small kid
I, too, disagree with the idea that healthy food is so/too expensive. Buy some whole wheat pasta, zucchini, carrots, eggplant, and serve!
and we got laws against bullying...
yeah I bet my nephew would love that eggplant mess true I think Moms are tired after their 10 hour days
to tired to shop cook cleanup lug the kids to practice finish the laundry help the kids with homework give them a bath
of course people are choosing fast and easy but there are some healthier options there now
you said cahoots. i love that word.
drive thru restaurants.. why do we need them? if you really want the food at least be bothered to get out of your car and go get it. might even slow you down a bit and give you time to think.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
and this just about says it all. society has created the situation where parents, both mothers and fathers are soemtimes so stressed for lack of time that it becomes so easy to just buy fast food. and theres no doubting the kids love it.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Of course, what you stated is true. People--both parents--are working longer hours, sometimes two jobs, so going through the druve-thru is far more convenient (a word/concept that may be crippling our society in ways) than cooking a healthy meal at home. So, we are back to the socioeconomic argument.
Sorry, cafefrances, it looks like we were typing the same thing at the same time!!
more calories here
we have drive thru bottle shops here. it makes me chuckle a bit when you think about the whole dont drive whilst drunk thing.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
just great minds thinking alike.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
quit telling me how to live my life!
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
lets not start thinking we are all the same. because you can do it doesnt mean all parents can. this is not an attack on you, im just saying.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i mean jason p just put it out there: under the auspices of corporate capitalism companies like pizza hut have to infiltrate the minds of children (before they are responsible for their behavior based on your complex timeline) in order to stay in business. if this were not effective wouldn't they stop doing it? however, he claims that he gained weight because he's less active. although the idea that we are less active as a society is fallacious (we are actually more active than ever before), for him, as an individual, this is because work (he needs to make money to be able to keep eating shitty food) and other personal issues have come in the way. plus as he outlines playstation only stays on the market if it sells more, same with pharma companies, gym memberships, and food companies - so the underlying thread here is that capitalism creates the context from which individuals choose to behave.
i say it's silly just to blame the individual when it's clearly a systemic problem that creates a situation whereby individuals have the opportunity to make poor choices. this doesn't mean that i'm taking the blame away from individuals, it means that the responsibility is shared between the system and the individual. however, to criticize the system in your worldview is heretic it seems.
Well, ohh la la. Looks like I will need to start breaking for afternoon tea now that I appear to have reached the upper edges of high society.
No, I wouldn't say it's exactly the same for everyone. I'd say it's roughly around those points. Regardless of the age, there is always someone responsible (parent or child or mix). I know you dislike the thought of personal responsibility. You want to blame markets, capitalism and broader elements.... which I think (and know) is oversimplisitic and absolutely absurd. Capitalism, markets and broader elements don't put the food you eat in your mouth, chew it, and swallow for you.... You do.
No offense - I don't care what you're writing about and have no clue why this was brought up.
Ironically, I've already said marketing can affect "preferences", for better or worse nutritionally. I've also said big government bodies like the FDA, tend to be corrupt, which can alter food safety. So, yes government and capitalism can have some effect on food. But, it's not like food that's nutritious is not available. Even at McDonalds they now have apple slices, etc. They may not be the best, but there's "more" nutritious options at fast food eateries than there once was. Regardless of the aforementioned, it's still the individual (or the parent, or both) that kinda is responsible in the long run. They make the final decision to walk into McDonalds, avoid the apple slices and choose the large fry. That's what you want to avoid.
No, I'm not. Once again, I admit that preferences may be semi-altered by capitalistic marketing. But, I also KNOW the individual makes the final say. I've never seen neoliberal economies literally put their hands on food and shove it in people's mouths and force them to swallow.
As for you, yes you seem to be a deflectionist. You seem to blame capitalism for individual decisions. Your focus have been completely OUTSIDE the scope of the person who chews the food. It's as if individuals have no choice to put food in their mouths and swallow. They may have less options, but they still have choice.
I don't know why you tend to go so far out there. Re-read everything I've written. Of course marketing sways behavior. But, you seem to believe that nutritional marketing does not. I say that's BS. Tons of examples of movement towards nutrition are available, even in fast food. At the end of the day, fatty food ads and nutrional ads should be allowed. And people should be able to decide. I see nothing wrong with being swayed to have a burger now and again. If you're responsible for your own actions, you'll know that you can afford that every now and again.
I know what you're getting at, but simply disagree on certain points. I agree with you that we're more active now. But, people, particularly in America eat worse, or have for a long time. Many (NOT ALL) parents grew up with a lack of personal responsibility for what they ate, or lack of knowledge of the effects. My point is that's individualized, and in my opinion, is starting to change. Why? Well, people are learning it's bad for them. Markets are responding to this change in demand for nutritious products. For example, my wife and I get organic vegetables delivered to our house. Several years back, we would not have "demanded" that, nor would an organization exist that would deliver that to your doorstep. That's capitalism/markets and that's good. It's not markets' fault. Capitalism or free-markets don't create demand, they respond to it.
Individuals make poor decisions every day. I suppose you'd like to ban the possibility of poor decisions? How would you do that,... with an FDA-like body? ha ha.
I say individuals are capable of making poor decisions. I don't think it's the system's fault for their poor decisions. And further, I think there's absolutely no way "the system" or "government" or "anyone" can stop poor decisions from occurring. I mean, you really need to think through what you're saying. Should we ban alcohol? In that light, your argument seems to say that capitalism is creating liver problems from alcohol. It's not the person who drinks a fifth of whiskey every night or even his addiction, it's capitalism.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
There is also a reason why there are multiple liquor/fast food and cell phone stores in those areas...
That aside, my initial point was more a rebuttal of RW's position that the mere existence of the profit motive in our food chain was enough to ensure that unhealthy options would always win out. The existence of (extremely) profitable companies selling healthy food belies that position somewhat.
real estate is expensive in the manhattan ... most people will shop at smaller markets/stores ... having said that - the trader joes and whole foods does good business there ...