It's all about portion size and educating kids about it constantly throughout childhood. But there needs to be pressure on the food service industry too. But in reality I don't think there is a solution at the moment. Impossible to change it right now because you just can't get that any people to break their behaviours and you cannot legislate how much food people put in their mouths or how much a business puts on a plate or packages. Maybe in a few generations we will see something IF the education system really steps up... which it won't.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Nationally, that comes to $190 billion a year in additional medical spending as a result of obesity, calculated Cawley, or 20.6 percent of U.S. health care expenditures.
We stop trying to act like we can control people and we focus on incentives. Let me give an example,...
1) We try to promote economic and job growth (via incentives, not via pretending like gov't "creates" jobs)
2) As the economy improves and people gain more "real" money, they are less likely to buy shit fast food (this has been shown statistically)
3) Companies would be more likely to move towards more wellness programs as they realize there are cost-saving benefits (in healthcare, that is, if we go towards a more market-based system).
These 3 points would definitely be a start in the right direction. Statistics show that there is a link between obesity and poverty and low education levels. See this abstract about poverty and obesity: http://www.ajcn.org/content/79/1/6.full
If we look at this link between poverty and obesity, part of the problem is finding healthy food. If I go into neighborhoods with high poverty rates then I can usually find some fast food crap on every corner but it is harder to find a grocery store that carries fresh fruits and veggies. Look at this map of food deserts in the US [urlhttp://www.ers.usda.gov/data/fooddesert/fooddesert.html][/url] Now if we can just get business to go into these areas or better yet my city has a farmers market that is in the midst of a food desert!
And we need to educate kids from an early age about healthy food and show them how to make good choices so even if they are high poverty they can eat good food. Of course, that would mean actually serving healthy school lunches and I'm sure companies that supply schools with their over processed faux food don't want to give up those lucrative government contracts. That's where we as consumers need to force them to change.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Many fat kids of today are fat due to different reasons then when I was a kid.
But at either time in history it comes down to many factors not just what someone puts in their mouth.
It's as individual as the individual why we really can't do anything.
Education will help some but for those who are suffering from psychological problems
that will not address their issues.
These problems are at the root of weight problems that last a lifetime
and are classic in the yo yo effect.
For children who are or have been abused or feel their bodies are the only thing they can control
from early on in life, will continue this into adulthood.
When children have not received the proper bonding
and love or handle stress with food addiction, this can be the root to adult obesity.
Multiple factors come into play some of which have been mentioned here
in a understanding way, some not. The pic posted is the most uplifting...
to teach children and adults they are beautiful no matter what and as importantly they just are... you are yourself, this we all have,
and this without judgment and assumptions from others
because when it comes down to it others have no idea....
Nationally, that comes to $190 billion a year in additional medical spending as a result of obesity, calculated Cawley, or 20.6 percent of U.S. health care expenditures.
We stop trying to act like we can control people and we focus on incentives. Let me give an example,...
1) We try to promote economic and job growth (via incentives, not via pretending like gov't "creates" jobs)
2) As the economy improves and people gain more "real" money, they are less likely to buy shit fast food (this has been shown statistically)
3) Companies would be more likely to move towards more wellness programs as they realize there are cost-saving benefits (in healthcare, that is, if we go towards a more market-based system).
These 3 points would definitely be a start in the right direction. Statistics show that there is a link between obesity and poverty and low education levels. See this abstract about poverty and obesity: http://www.ajcn.org/content/79/1/6.full
If we look at this link between poverty and obesity, part of the problem is finding healthy food. If I go into neighborhoods with high poverty rates then I can usually find some fast food crap on every corner but it is harder to find a grocery store that carries fresh fruits and veggies. Look at this map of food deserts in the US [urlhttp://www.ers.usda.gov/data/fooddesert/fooddesert.html][/url] Now if we can just get business to go into these areas or better yet my city has a farmers market that is in the midst of a food desert!
And we need to educate kids from an early age about healthy food and show them how to make good choices so even if they are high poverty they can eat good food. Of course, that would mean actually serving healthy school lunches and I'm sure companies that supply schools with their over processed faux food don't want to give up those lucrative government contracts. That's where we as consumers need to force them to change.
how about we eliminate poverty stricken communities and stop focusing on how fat individuals are. all i've been trying to argue is that by individualizing the "problem" of fatness we are falling into the neoliberal trap of individualizing a socio-economic problem that is systemic not individual. get rid of for profit food companies and start focusing on producing healthy, nutritious food and the population will be healthier whether fat or thin. by the way if you look at an obesity map you might not be shocked to see that the poorest states are the fattest..hmmm.
also why is it so hard to see obesity as a farce when as recent as the 60s there were health manuals being sent out about how to gain weight for better health? or in the 1800s being fat meant you were rich enough to afford food? or the fact that we exercise more, don't smoke as much, cook with lard, drink whole milk, etc. in contemporary society...
ok but some of you realise that you're coming off as pro-obesity... it is bad for your health. period. we know that, what we thought or didn't know in the past is irrelevent
I don't mean to offend anyone, a lot of what I say should be taken with a grain of salt... that said for most of you I'm a stranger on a computer on the other side of the world, don't give me that sort of power!
ok but some of you realise that you're coming off as pro-obesity... it is bad for your health. period. we know that, what we thought or didn't know in the past is irrelevent
My daughter went to an autopsy of a very large elderly woman
who was hit head on by a DUI driver.
She was obese and strong as an ox...
her heart, her organs, she would have lived to 100 the coroner said.
Not all fat people are unhealthy. Stress is more unhealthy than extra pounds
this is proven.
Perhaps we will come to find out in 20 years the BP meds that are being pushed like candy
to even our young adults cause kidney cancer. I would say that would be bad for one's health.
Just as bad as being overweight.
One thing about our health industry ...
they are continuing to learn and discover while we are the guinea pigs
at the mercy of somebody making big big ridiculously big bucks.
ok but some of you realise that you're coming off as pro-obesity... it is bad for your health. period. we know that, what we thought or didn't know in the past is irrelevent
i think if you get into the nuance of my argument just because i'm anti-obesity as a problem of epidemic proportions does not mean that i don't think that our rapidly declining nutrition (often leading to larger bodies) created through an amalgam of corporately driven issues (schooling, news, exercise industrial-complex, research, medicine, pharmaceuticals, and food producers) is a problem. what i am arguing is that by individualizing the problem (ie. eat less and work out more) shifts the focus away from the true culprit in our declining health - capitalism. fat bodies can live a long fucking time, and thin bodies can die early. the argument that being fat is bad and that's where it stops is akin to arguing that being black means you're stupid and using numbers on standardized tests to prove it - then trying to solve the problem by telling black people to go to school. of course the latter would overlook the socio-economic disparities that most black people (or other ethnic minorities) emerge from, and is a far too simplistic created by and in the name of neoliberal capitalism.
ok but some of you realise that you're coming off as pro-obesity... it is bad for your health. period. we know that, what we thought or didn't know in the past is irrelevent
also if you read the research on obesity they often just make shit up for how bad it is (see: Burgard, 2009; Campos, 2004; Gard, 2005, 2008, 2011). the obesity "epidemic" has been leveling out for a number of years but that doesn't sell newspapers or keep you watching television through the commercials so it doesn't get reported.
i dunno man ... i remember when vince carter and tracy mcgrady were going to the all star game and they were asked what they wanted for dinner and they said mcnuggets ...
:(
to me ... the obesity issue is an example of what truly is wrong with america ... a corporately controlled gov't ... this corporatized gov't does this:
1. it allows industry to control the FDA - allowing shit practices and cancer causing chemicals to enter the food system ... also, allowing the food industry to be de-regulated ... see things like what is fat-free or all-natural ...
2. an unhealthy america is very profitable to many industries ... see insurance, health care, pharmaceuticals, etc ... there is an incentive to keep america unhealthy - profiteering ... just look at the commercials in the states ... it seems 1 in 3 is a drug related ad ...
3. the use of GMOs and pesticides had lowered the nutritional value of food in general ... so, even tho people are eating "vegetables" ... they likely don't contain the same nutritional content as they once did ... nevermind how the introduction of gmo's may be linked to other health related issues
4. the prosperity gap ... the rich have better access to good food ... it's a joke that "food" that is heavily processed and contains all kinds of shit is cheaper to buy than real food ...
combine this with the issue of entitled excess ... in america, more is better ... the result is that in general you have what you have ...
i dunno man ... i remember when vince carter and tracy mcgrady were going to the all star game and they were asked what they wanted for dinner and they said mcnuggets ...
:(
to me ... the obesity issue is an example of what truly is wrong with america ... a corporately controlled gov't ... this corporatized gov't does this:
1. it allows industry to control the FDA - allowing shit practices and cancer causing chemicals to enter the food system ... also, allowing the food industry to be de-regulated ... see things like what is fat-free or all-natural ...
2. an unhealthy america is very profitable to many industries ... see insurance, health care, pharmaceuticals, etc ... there is an incentive to keep america unhealthy - profiteering ... just look at the commercials in the states ... it seems 1 in 3 is a drug related ad ...
3. the use of GMOs and pesticides had lowered the nutritional value of food in general ... so, even tho people are eating "vegetables" ... they likely don't contain the same nutritional content as they once did ... nevermind how the introduction of gmo's may be linked to other health related issues
4. the prosperity gap ... the rich have better access to good food ... it's a joke that "food" that is heavily processed and contains all kinds of shit is cheaper to buy than real food ...
combine this with the issue of entitled excess ... in america, more is better ... the result is that in general you have what you have ...
I hate articles like these...they perpetuate a false science driven by the corporate takeover of the university, and FDA by food and pharma companies. Put differently the BMI is a bullshit way to make causal conclusions about an individual's health - insurance companies since the 1980s have been giving up on it (see: Campos, 2003). Secondly, by making obesity a problem of the individual person to overcome it makes it all too easy to shield us from the real issues driving the obesity marketplace. More specifically, fatness or thinness is not a reliable marker for us to use when it comes to health outcomes, but the very things that do make us less healthy (namely the shitty nutrition in our overprocessed, steroid injected, pink-sludge, food) is much more closely linked to poor health (see: Gard, 2011; Gard & Wright, 2005). That shit makes us less healthy if we are fat or thin. However, with a marketing plan and billions of dollars to donate to the University where academics are supposed to become entrepreneurs by taking on corporate grant funding to make up for the fact that tax dollars aren't paying them anymore it's much easier to make false claims about obesity or overstate how bad it is (cf. Campos, 2003; Oliver, 2004).
What we should be doing instead of worrying about how fat or thin everyone is and sending them on some sort of workout regime is to look closely at the food and drinks that we are consuming. Often these companies like Pepsi, Coke, Pfizer, and others are grant sources for academics. Is it any wonder then that researchers say that pepsi and coke can be consumed in moderation with no ill-effect despite the fact that soda is strongly linked to cancer? Is it any wonder that the best way to combat "obesity" is by consuming some miracle pill that will lose you weight produced by Pfizer? Obesity is a fucking hoax, and it's sad that the President's wife fell for it - along with many others. Importantly, and following Gard (2008) whose anti-obesity research has been taken up by corporations and libertarian organizations who say "if obesity isn't bad then we can sell and eat whatever on the free market" that's not the case either. We should be concerned with the nutrition or lack thereof in the food system, but we shouldn't necessarily be concerned with how fat people are other than it is an indication of how capitalism has ruined nutrition.
wow !! something we agree on.
there some people who have a very hard time loosing any weight no matter what they eat but I agree with your post for the most part.
Nationally, that comes to $190 billion a year in additional medical spending as a result of obesity, calculated Cawley, or 20.6 percent of U.S. health care expenditures.
We stop trying to act like we can control people and we focus on incentives. Let me give an example,...
1) We try to promote economic and job growth (via incentives, not via pretending like gov't "creates" jobs)
2) As the economy improves and people gain more "real" money, they are less likely to buy shit fast food (this has been shown statistically)
3) Companies would be more likely to move towards more wellness programs as they realize there are cost-saving benefits (in healthcare, that is, if we go towards a more market-based system).
via point 3 isn't that big government intervention in the market?
No. It's not.
If we really priced healthcare with "market " rates for individuals based on "risk", with no intervention (or as limited as possible) it would make more sense for companies to do everything in their power to lower risks. Wellness programs would expand because companies seek to lower costs and profit maximize.
The further we move away from risk-based pricing, the further we move into situations where incentives are lacking.
Don't forget about the general attitude that a problem is always someone else's fault and responsibility to fix.
Forget about the part where you have to send motor-neurons to actually pick food up, stick it in your mouth, chew and process it. Ignore that and focus on the real evil ... capitalism.
Don't forget about the general attitude that a problem is always someone else's fault and responsibility to fix.
This.
Yep, it's constant deflection.... in everything. We see it on the train every day. It's always someone or something else's fault. It's never the individual. Personal responsibility has become a thing of the past.
It's not really an economic problem, but more of a societal (yet individualized) problem. Lots of people eat bad food to "feel good". What needs to change is that mindset,... society-wide. That starts individually.
I hate articles like these...they perpetuate a false science driven by the corporate takeover of the university, and FDA by food and pharma companies. Put differently the BMI is a bullshit way to make causal conclusions about an individual's health - insurance companies since the 1980s have been giving up on it (see: Campos, 2003). Secondly, by making obesity a problem of the individual person to overcome it makes it all too easy to shield us from the real issues driving the obesity marketplace. More specifically, fatness or thinness is not a reliable marker for us to use when it comes to health outcomes, but the very things that do make us less healthy (namely the shitty nutrition in our overprocessed, steroid injected, pink-sludge, food) is much more closely linked to poor health (see: Gard, 2011; Gard & Wright, 2005). That shit makes us less healthy if we are fat or thin. However, with a marketing plan and billions of dollars to donate to the University where academics are supposed to become entrepreneurs by taking on corporate grant funding to make up for the fact that tax dollars aren't paying them anymore it's much easier to make false claims about obesity or overstate how bad it is (cf. Campos, 2003; Oliver, 2004).
What we should be doing instead of worrying about how fat or thin everyone is and sending them on some sort of workout regime is to look closely at the food and drinks that we are consuming. Often these companies like Pepsi, Coke, Pfizer, and others are grant sources for academics. Is it any wonder then that researchers say that pepsi and coke can be consumed in moderation with no ill-effect despite the fact that soda is strongly linked to cancer? Is it any wonder that the best way to combat "obesity" is by consuming some miracle pill that will lose you weight produced by Pfizer? Obesity is a fucking hoax, and it's sad that the President's wife fell for it - along with many others. Importantly, and following Gard (2008) whose anti-obesity research has been taken up by corporations and libertarian organizations who say "if obesity isn't bad then we can sell and eat whatever on the free market" that's not the case either. We should be concerned with the nutrition or lack thereof in the food system, but we shouldn't necessarily be concerned with how fat people are other than it is an indication of how capitalism has ruined nutrition.
wow !! something we agree on.
there some people who have a very hard time loosing any weight no matter what they eat but I agree with your post for the most part.
Don't forget about the general attitude that a problem is always someone else's fault and responsibility to fix.
Forget about the part where you have to send motor-neurons to actually pick food up, stick it in your mouth, chew and process it. Ignore that and focus on the real evil ... capitalism.
:crazy:
it is up to said motor neurons to make the choice and it is up to you if you
would be so accepting of others to understand this the basic right to personal freedoms
you assume fat people blame others for their 'problem' when in fact it is not a problem
until others make it so
Don't forget about the general attitude that a problem is always someone else's fault and responsibility to fix.
This.
Yep, it's constant deflection.... in everything. We see it on the train every day. It's always someone or something else's fault. It's never the individual. Personal responsibility has become a thing of the past.
It's not really an economic problem, but more of a societal (yet individualized) problem. Lots of people eat bad food to "feel good". What needs to change is that mindset,... society-wide. That starts individually.
so we all operate and act in an individualist vacuum thereby denying the very context from which we emerge and are a and effectively influenced? i mean if you don't have access, opportunity, or encouragement to nutrition or healthful behavior then how the fuck is that the individuals fault? you make it seem as if its easy to overcome a situation where children know and desire the logos and commercials for thousands of different types of junk food brands by being personally responsible before they possess the ability to actively think against what the commercials are selling them. or to get good food where it is becoming less and less available. full disclosure i have spent the last three years doing research on this issue, and went into it thinking that obesity was "bad" and that there were ways to solve it at the individual level (originally i wanted to start getting bike lanes put in at my school, more nutritious food sold in the lunchrooms, etc. and have run into a variety of problems posed by the corporate contracts my school has).
healthy foods, smaller portions, exercise, and hard work & hard play = a healthier individual. driving a semi truck for 10 years or so required me to sit on my ass for extreme lengths of time. that is no way to live. i gained a lot of blubber on my ass at that time. that was so fucked.
nowadays i eat healthier than ever and swim one or more miles daily 5-7 days a week and walk everyday. sure i do miss a day of walking every once in awhile due to needing my knees replaced and living w/ extreme knee pain sucks bigtime. im a big bastard when i am bone skinny. i am more active than my thin ass friends who do nothing. i have friends who watch tv and or play video games all day and eat shit food. i see some friends of mine feed their children tons of junk foods. it is the scariest thing to watch. the kids actually will kill if not given their donuts.
if i had a kid the very last thing on earth i'd feed him or her would be donuts and the like. these unhealthy parents and kids are slamming down sodas like water. i am amazed at this behavior. when i see people drinking sodas day in and day out everyday all day long and that is all that they drink... i am wanting to bitch slap the fuck out of them. i think to myself, "you are a fucking fool" and, "your choice and taste in drinks is fucking retarded" "pick up a glass of water you dumb ass" and then there's those who consume crate after crate of diet soda. them fuckers need beat with a large stick
Don't forget about the general attitude that a problem is always someone else's fault and responsibility to fix.
This.
Yep, it's constant deflection.... in everything. We see it on the train every day. It's always someone or something else's fault. It's never the individual. Personal responsibility has become a thing of the past.
It's not really an economic problem, but more of a societal (yet individualized) problem. Lots of people eat bad food to "feel good". What needs to change is that mindset,... society-wide. That starts individually.
so we all operate and act in an individualist vacuum thereby denying the very context from which we emerge and are a and effectively influenced? i mean if you don't have access, opportunity, or encouragement to nutrition or healthful behavior then how the fuck is that the individuals fault? you make it seem as if its easy to overcome a situation where children know and desire the logos and commercials for thousands of different types of junk food brands by being personally responsible before they possess the ability to actively think against what the commercials are selling them. or to get good food where it is becoming less and less available. full disclosure i have spent the last three years doing research on this issue, and went into it thinking that obesity was "bad" and that there were ways to solve it at the individual level (originally i wanted to start getting bike lanes put in at my school, more nutritious food sold in the lunchrooms, etc. and have run into a variety of problems posed by the corporate contracts my school has).
We all make choices, individually... yes. Now, does marketing influences some of us to buy bad products? Sure. Does the fat surrounding our guts influence us to try to avoid bad products? Sure. Does lack of friends to play sports influence us? Sure. Does good parenting help us to avoid bad products? Sure. Does lack of high salary help adults steer away from organic food? Sure. There's so many things one could "deflect" this problem to...
...But, at the end of the day - for those 18+, WE do make choices as INDIVIDUALS to put pieces of food inside our mouths, chew it, then swallow.
Healthy eating begins at an early age - teaching children "portion" sizes is very important. We super size every meal and soft drink that we get our hands on.
Its expensive but buying the ( 100 calorie ) snacks teach children the correct amount to eat. I show my children portion size and calories all the time so they understand what they eat.
Eating at home instead of fast food is a big help in keeping a healthy weight. This is easier said than done because most parents work and fast and quick is much easier.
Getting kids to play outside and exersize is so important.
There is no easy answer but we need to eat less,healthier foods and move more....
We all make choices, individually... yes. Now, does marketing influences some of us to buy bad products? Sure. Does the fat surrounding our guts influence us to try to avoid bad products? Sure. Does lack of friends to play sports influence us? Sure. Does good parenting help us to avoid bad products? Sure. Does lack of high salary help adults steer away from organic food? Sure. There's so many things one could "deflect" this problem to...
...But, at the end of the day - for those 18+, WE do make choices as INDIVIDUALS to put pieces of food inside our mouths, chew it, then swallow.
so we just leave everything we learned and lived with before we were 18 behind? i don't agree at all.
We all make choices, individually... yes. Now, does marketing influences some of us to buy bad products? Sure. Does the fat surrounding our guts influence us to try to avoid bad products? Sure. Does lack of friends to play sports influence us? Sure. Does good parenting help us to avoid bad products? Sure. Does lack of high salary help adults steer away from organic food? Sure. There's so many things one could "deflect" this problem to...
...But, at the end of the day - for those 18+, WE do make choices as INDIVIDUALS to put pieces of food inside our mouths, chew it, then swallow.
so we just leave everything we learned and lived with before we were 18 behind? i don't agree at all.
Nope.
Not saying we leave everything we learned or lived with before we were 18 behind. Instead, I'd argue, our parents, or the people raising us, are primarily responsible for what we eat in our youngest years. That said, even pre-18, say at the age of 12 we are making some of own decisions. Our parents, or those who raise us, steer us in the beginning. It's originally their responsibility (say 0-10), then it becomes mixed (10-18), then it becomes ours alone (post-18).... who knows... we may be responsible for our own child's down the line (if we have one) too. ...
Responsibility is a tough subject for deflectionists to grasp.
so we all operate and act in an individualist vacuum thereby denying the very context from which we emerge and are a and effectively influenced? i mean if you don't have access, opportunity, or encouragement to nutrition or healthful behavior then how the fuck is that the individuals fault? you make it seem as if its easy to overcome a situation where children know and desire the logos and commercials for thousands of different types of junk food brands by being personally responsible before they possess the ability to actively think against what the commercials are selling them. or to get good food where it is becoming less and less available. full disclosure i have spent the last three years doing research on this issue, and went into it thinking that obesity was "bad" and that there were ways to solve it at the individual level (originally i wanted to start getting bike lanes put in at my school, more nutritious food sold in the lunchrooms, etc. and have run into a variety of problems posed by the corporate contracts my school has).
I stated clearly in one of my earlier posts that everything you mentioned above is part of the problem. It's part of the problem. It isn't the problem itself.
Pizza Hut used to give me coupons for reading books in their book-it program. I was encouraged to read books and Pizza Hut built brand-identity in me. Is that evil? All companies strive at building brand recognition. The ones that don't are not if business for very long.
At a certain point when my metabolism wore down, so did my Pizza Hut intake. That is where the individual must take charge.
Is the Apple iPad in cahoots with Pfizer and Frito Lay? Is it a good sign when the NFL or your Nintendo Wii have to beg kids to go outside and play for 60 minutes? As I mentioned earlier, my childhood diet consisted of Slim Jims, Tombstone pizza's, and Doritos. But my parents damn near had to send out search parties to drag me back into the house at night and for some strange reason, I was not overweight.
so we just leave everything we learned and lived with before we were 18 behind? i don't agree at all.
people have to take responsibility for their actions ... it's no one's fault if someone doesn't know the food they are eating is laced with chemicals and pesticides nor is it anyone fault that things they may not want to eat are put into foods without labeling ... it's also no one's fault that if someone is poor that they have to choose fruit loops for breakfast instead of granola ... and for the love of all that is pure and sacred in this world - don't go blaming fast food joints - they are a national treasure ... they feed everyone rich and poor and offer food at such low prices ... they should be commended!
so we all operate and act in an individualist vacuum thereby denying the very context from which we emerge and are a and effectively influenced? i mean if you don't have access, opportunity, or encouragement to nutrition or healthful behavior then how the fuck is that the individuals fault? you make it seem as if its easy to overcome a situation where children know and desire the logos and commercials for thousands of different types of junk food brands by being personally responsible before they possess the ability to actively think against what the commercials are selling them. or to get good food where it is becoming less and less available. full disclosure i have spent the last three years doing research on this issue, and went into it thinking that obesity was "bad" and that there were ways to solve it at the individual level (originally i wanted to start getting bike lanes put in at my school, more nutritious food sold in the lunchrooms, etc. and have run into a variety of problems posed by the corporate contracts my school has).
for me it is simple. We may not get to choose the lot we have in life...but no one can take away our ability to make decisions. If we cannot make decisions we all might as well give up. If I have A and B to choose from, I probably don't always get to pick what A and B are, but I can always decide for myself whether I want A or I want B. You seem to argue the position that people aren't responsible for their decisions because they didn't have the choices that every other individual had...It is pretty obvious kids are influenced by advertising...adults are influenced by advertising, as well as by kids who were influenced by advertising...but who is at fault for falling prey to those ads...the ad executives who came up with a great campaign, or the person who simply believed what they saw and had little self control...I could certainly be wrong.
I will agree that It is very important to re-educate people on what it means to eat healthy, what it means to be healthy...My wife and past girlfriends have always talked about being skinny as if skinny was always healthy. I don't understand it. It might be a side effect of being healthy, but it certainly doesn't mean you are healthy. But you cannot force those things on people. You can offer the class but you cannot make people learn.
But isn't eliminating for profit food companies a bit? This may not be what you are saying, but it is how I am reading it so please feel free to correct me if I am wrong...but basically you are advocating for taking away stuff for the group at large, because some members of the group may not be able to handle that stuff responsibly... is that assumption correct?
So as far as Obesity goes...we deal with the symptoms as they arise. If someone is unhealthy and the doctor thinks losing weight will help than great...but obesity doesn't = unhealthy, especially when it is measured by the BMI. Most athletes are considered overweight, even some obese...but would anyone really consider the majority of them unhealthy because of it? I am pushing obese on the bmi scale, but I have a resting heart rate of 52
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
It seems that the inclusion of the word "Obesity" in the title of the thread pissed some people off; so, I have replaced that word with something more applicable to American society, and far less "controversial."
The bottom line is that a significant part of our citizenry is unhealthy. (You can define unhealthy any way you want.) And, this is having a negative impact on healthcare costs, which brings up a new discussion, or more accurately, a question that most people ask: Why am I paying for your unhealthy lifestyle? It is an intrusion of the personal into the social. (Maybe they should require everyone to have their own health insurance, like through a mandate or something. I think I read about that in an American Enterprise Institute or Heritage Foundation report..... [laugh folks, it's good for you])
Anyway, you have all put forth very good reasons/causes for this problem and that was the point of this thread.
So everyone seems to be agreeing it is a matter of personal choice
now can we go pass that and say whatever the choice is it is not a wrong one
just a personal one. And it is indeed healthy for some people to be overweight,
both mentally and physically.
It comes down to body image and how a person feels about them self.
Many thin people seem to assume fat people are unhappy because they themselves would be if they were fat.
This not true for all fat people. Having been a size 20 and a size 8 and back again
I honestly can say I like myself somewhere in between, a med plus size lady.
When I was an 8 I never felt thin,
that is the body image problem of a fat child, it wasn't me.
And although I was smaller than most of my lady friends I was forever uncomfortable
feeling not right and still overweight.
This when some of the eating disorders can come into play, fortunately for me they did not
but we see many women living their lives coping with them.
So if we can say it is a personal choice and not always a wrong one for all,
we can hopefully look at others with more insight
not just what the scale reads and judge them based on that.
Back to the children, I mentioned earlier a complex issue with many factors at play.
On a positive note we are seeing change and awareness as someone else mentioned
so in the generations to come hopefully people will work at being healthy
whatever size they choose to be and they will be accepted as so, healthy and beautiful
A good read. This figure stuck out. Nationally, that comes to $190 billion a year in additional medical spending as a result of obesity, calculated Cawley, or 20.6 percent of U.S. health care expenditures.
I read the article and saw that number and it got me wondering something (that the article didn't really address). Ok Obese people cost an extra 190 billion for additional medical spending. But what about the potential savings. I mean yes an obese person costs more when they are alive, but a guy who is 400 pounds+ probably isn't going to be living into his 90's and collecting social security and medicare benefits for 25 years while not working. So that has to be a huge savings and I wonder how that compares to the additional costs associated with obese people when they are alive.
A good read. This figure stuck out. Nationally, that comes to $190 billion a year in additional medical spending as a result of obesity, calculated Cawley, or 20.6 percent of U.S. health care expenditures.
I read the article and saw that number and it got me wondering something (that the article didn't really address). Ok Obese people cost an extra 190 billion for additional medical spending. But what about the potential savings. I mean yes an obese person costs more when they are alive, but a guy who is 400 pounds+ probably isn't going to be living into his 90's and collecting social security and medicare benefits for 25 years while not working. So that has to be a huge savings and I wonder how that compares to the additional costs associated with obese people when they are alive.
Comments
These 3 points would definitely be a start in the right direction. Statistics show that there is a link between obesity and poverty and low education levels. See this abstract about poverty and obesity: http://www.ajcn.org/content/79/1/6.full
If we look at this link between poverty and obesity, part of the problem is finding healthy food. If I go into neighborhoods with high poverty rates then I can usually find some fast food crap on every corner but it is harder to find a grocery store that carries fresh fruits and veggies. Look at this map of food deserts in the US [urlhttp://www.ers.usda.gov/data/fooddesert/fooddesert.html][/url] Now if we can just get business to go into these areas or better yet my city has a farmers market that is in the midst of a food desert!
And we need to educate kids from an early age about healthy food and show them how to make good choices so even if they are high poverty they can eat good food. Of course, that would mean actually serving healthy school lunches and I'm sure companies that supply schools with their over processed faux food don't want to give up those lucrative government contracts. That's where we as consumers need to force them to change.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
But at either time in history it comes down to many factors not just what someone puts in their mouth.
It's as individual as the individual why we really can't do anything.
Education will help some but for those who are suffering from psychological problems
that will not address their issues.
These problems are at the root of weight problems that last a lifetime
and are classic in the yo yo effect.
For children who are or have been abused or feel their bodies are the only thing they can control
from early on in life, will continue this into adulthood.
When children have not received the proper bonding
and love or handle stress with food addiction, this can be the root to adult obesity.
Multiple factors come into play some of which have been mentioned here
in a understanding way, some not. The pic posted is the most uplifting...
to teach children and adults they are beautiful no matter what and as importantly they
just are... you are yourself, this we all have,
and this without judgment and assumptions from others
because when it comes down to it others have no idea....
who was hit head on by a DUI driver.
She was obese and strong as an ox...
her heart, her organs, she would have lived to 100 the coroner said.
Not all fat people are unhealthy. Stress is more unhealthy than extra pounds
this is proven.
Perhaps we will come to find out in 20 years the BP meds that are being pushed like candy
to even our young adults cause kidney cancer. I would say that would be bad for one's health.
Just as bad as being overweight.
One thing about our health industry ...
they are continuing to learn and discover while we are the guinea pigs
at the mercy of somebody making big big ridiculously big bucks.
:(
to me ... the obesity issue is an example of what truly is wrong with america ... a corporately controlled gov't ... this corporatized gov't does this:
1. it allows industry to control the FDA - allowing shit practices and cancer causing chemicals to enter the food system ... also, allowing the food industry to be de-regulated ... see things like what is fat-free or all-natural ...
2. an unhealthy america is very profitable to many industries ... see insurance, health care, pharmaceuticals, etc ... there is an incentive to keep america unhealthy - profiteering ... just look at the commercials in the states ... it seems 1 in 3 is a drug related ad ...
3. the use of GMOs and pesticides had lowered the nutritional value of food in general ... so, even tho people are eating "vegetables" ... they likely don't contain the same nutritional content as they once did ... nevermind how the introduction of gmo's may be linked to other health related issues
4. the prosperity gap ... the rich have better access to good food ... it's a joke that "food" that is heavily processed and contains all kinds of shit is cheaper to buy than real food ...
combine this with the issue of entitled excess ... in america, more is better ... the result is that in general you have what you have ...
wow !! something we agree on.
there some people who have a very hard time loosing any weight no matter what they eat but I agree with your post for the most part.
Godfather.
No. It's not.
If we really priced healthcare with "market " rates for individuals based on "risk", with no intervention (or as limited as possible) it would make more sense for companies to do everything in their power to lower risks. Wellness programs would expand because companies seek to lower costs and profit maximize.
The further we move away from risk-based pricing, the further we move into situations where incentives are lacking.
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Forget about the part where you have to send motor-neurons to actually pick food up, stick it in your mouth, chew and process it. Ignore that and focus on the real evil ... capitalism.
:crazy:
This.
Yep, it's constant deflection.... in everything. We see it on the train every day. It's always someone or something else's fault. It's never the individual. Personal responsibility has become a thing of the past.
It's not really an economic problem, but more of a societal (yet individualized) problem. Lots of people eat bad food to "feel good". What needs to change is that mindset,... society-wide. That starts individually.
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would be so accepting of others to understand this the basic right to personal freedoms
you assume fat people blame others for their 'problem' when in fact it is not a problem
until others make it so
this through assumption and judgment yet again
nowadays i eat healthier than ever and swim one or more miles daily 5-7 days a week and walk everyday. sure i do miss a day of walking every once in awhile due to needing my knees replaced and living w/ extreme knee pain sucks bigtime. im a big bastard when i am bone skinny. i am more active than my thin ass friends who do nothing. i have friends who watch tv and or play video games all day and eat shit food. i see some friends of mine feed their children tons of junk foods. it is the scariest thing to watch. the kids actually will kill if not given their donuts.
if i had a kid the very last thing on earth i'd feed him or her would be donuts and the like. these unhealthy parents and kids are slamming down sodas like water. i am amazed at this behavior. when i see people drinking sodas day in and day out everyday all day long and that is all that they drink... i am wanting to bitch slap the fuck out of them. i think to myself, "you are a fucking fool" and, "your choice and taste in drinks is fucking retarded" "pick up a glass of water you dumb ass" and then there's those who consume crate after crate of diet soda. them fuckers need beat with a large stick
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
We all make choices, individually... yes. Now, does marketing influences some of us to buy bad products? Sure. Does the fat surrounding our guts influence us to try to avoid bad products? Sure. Does lack of friends to play sports influence us? Sure. Does good parenting help us to avoid bad products? Sure. Does lack of high salary help adults steer away from organic food? Sure. There's so many things one could "deflect" this problem to...
...But, at the end of the day - for those 18+, WE do make choices as INDIVIDUALS to put pieces of food inside our mouths, chew it, then swallow.
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Its expensive but buying the ( 100 calorie ) snacks teach children the correct amount to eat. I show my children portion size and calories all the time so they understand what they eat.
Eating at home instead of fast food is a big help in keeping a healthy weight. This is easier said than done because most parents work and fast and quick is much easier.
Getting kids to play outside and exersize is so important.
There is no easy answer but we need to eat less,healthier foods and move more....
Nope.
Not saying we leave everything we learned or lived with before we were 18 behind. Instead, I'd argue, our parents, or the people raising us, are primarily responsible for what we eat in our youngest years. That said, even pre-18, say at the age of 12 we are making some of own decisions. Our parents, or those who raise us, steer us in the beginning. It's originally their responsibility (say 0-10), then it becomes mixed (10-18), then it becomes ours alone (post-18).... who knows... we may be responsible for our own child's down the line (if we have one) too. ...
Responsibility is a tough subject for deflectionists to grasp.
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Pizza Hut used to give me coupons for reading books in their book-it program. I was encouraged to read books and Pizza Hut built brand-identity in me. Is that evil? All companies strive at building brand recognition. The ones that don't are not if business for very long.
At a certain point when my metabolism wore down, so did my Pizza Hut intake. That is where the individual must take charge.
Is the Apple iPad in cahoots with Pfizer and Frito Lay? Is it a good sign when the NFL or your Nintendo Wii have to beg kids to go outside and play for 60 minutes? As I mentioned earlier, my childhood diet consisted of Slim Jims, Tombstone pizza's, and Doritos. But my parents damn near had to send out search parties to drag me back into the house at night and for some strange reason, I was not overweight.
people have to take responsibility for their actions ... it's no one's fault if someone doesn't know the food they are eating is laced with chemicals and pesticides nor is it anyone fault that things they may not want to eat are put into foods without labeling ... it's also no one's fault that if someone is poor that they have to choose fruit loops for breakfast instead of granola ... and for the love of all that is pure and sacred in this world - don't go blaming fast food joints - they are a national treasure ... they feed everyone rich and poor and offer food at such low prices ... they should be commended!
for me it is simple. We may not get to choose the lot we have in life...but no one can take away our ability to make decisions. If we cannot make decisions we all might as well give up. If I have A and B to choose from, I probably don't always get to pick what A and B are, but I can always decide for myself whether I want A or I want B. You seem to argue the position that people aren't responsible for their decisions because they didn't have the choices that every other individual had...It is pretty obvious kids are influenced by advertising...adults are influenced by advertising, as well as by kids who were influenced by advertising...but who is at fault for falling prey to those ads...the ad executives who came up with a great campaign, or the person who simply believed what they saw and had little self control...I could certainly be wrong.
I will agree that It is very important to re-educate people on what it means to eat healthy, what it means to be healthy...My wife and past girlfriends have always talked about being skinny as if skinny was always healthy. I don't understand it. It might be a side effect of being healthy, but it certainly doesn't mean you are healthy. But you cannot force those things on people. You can offer the class but you cannot make people learn.
But isn't eliminating for profit food companies a bit? This may not be what you are saying, but it is how I am reading it so please feel free to correct me if I am wrong...but basically you are advocating for taking away stuff for the group at large, because some members of the group may not be able to handle that stuff responsibly... is that assumption correct?
So as far as Obesity goes...we deal with the symptoms as they arise. If someone is unhealthy and the doctor thinks losing weight will help than great...but obesity doesn't = unhealthy, especially when it is measured by the BMI. Most athletes are considered overweight, even some obese...but would anyone really consider the majority of them unhealthy because of it? I am pushing obese on the bmi scale, but I have a resting heart rate of 52
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
The bottom line is that a significant part of our citizenry is unhealthy. (You can define unhealthy any way you want.) And, this is having a negative impact on healthcare costs, which brings up a new discussion, or more accurately, a question that most people ask: Why am I paying for your unhealthy lifestyle? It is an intrusion of the personal into the social. (Maybe they should require everyone to have their own health insurance, like through a mandate or something. I think I read about that in an American Enterprise Institute or Heritage Foundation report.....
Anyway, you have all put forth very good reasons/causes for this problem and that was the point of this thread.
now can we go pass that and say whatever the choice is it is not a wrong one
just a personal one. And it is indeed healthy for some people to be overweight,
both mentally and physically.
It comes down to body image and how a person feels about them self.
Many thin people seem to assume fat people are unhappy because they themselves would be if they were fat.
This not true for all fat people. Having been a size 20 and a size 8 and back again
I honestly can say I like myself somewhere in between, a med plus size lady.
When I was an 8 I never felt thin,
that is the body image problem of a fat child, it wasn't me.
And although I was smaller than most of my lady friends I was forever uncomfortable
feeling not right and still overweight.
This when some of the eating disorders can come into play, fortunately for me they did not
but we see many women living their lives coping with them.
So if we can say it is a personal choice and not always a wrong one for all,
we can hopefully look at others with more insight
not just what the scale reads and judge them based on that.
Back to the children, I mentioned earlier a complex issue with many factors at play.
On a positive note we are seeing change and awareness as someone else mentioned
so in the generations to come hopefully people will work at being healthy
whatever size they choose to be and they will be accepted as so, healthy and beautiful
I read the article and saw that number and it got me wondering something (that the article didn't really address). Ok Obese people cost an extra 190 billion for additional medical spending. But what about the potential savings. I mean yes an obese person costs more when they are alive, but a guy who is 400 pounds+ probably isn't going to be living into his 90's and collecting social security and medicare benefits for 25 years while not working. So that has to be a huge savings and I wonder how that compares to the additional costs associated with obese people when they are alive.
A good point; something to ponder.