An unhealthy culture: What do we do?

catefrances

RW81233 wrote:

Jason P wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

is neoliberal capitalism the one link between all of the things you just pointed out?

I don't know what that means.

It is an interesting problem to have. Your society is set up where people have to get on exercise equipment because there are too many calories available in a given day. That must be a hard concept for someone in a non-capitalist country like Somalia to fathom.

or like scandanavia...or some crazy capitalist country that supposedly has an obesity crisis but has enough of a food disparity that many are going hungry like, like oh shit America. Which brings us to the real indicator of health in the U.S. wealth. If you are rich it doesn't matter if you are fat or thin you live longer, and if you are poor it doesn't matter if you are fat or thin you die faster.

now that is food for thought. 8-)

riotgrl

What do we do? We stop listening to conventional "diet" wisdom. CV says to eat low fat everything but all this is still processed, artificial food. We don't feel full or satisfied and in fact are addicted to our industrial food supply. Certainly, we have to take responsibility for our actions but unless we are eating nutrient dense WHOLE foods we will never lose weight, become healthier, and increase our physical activity. Is there a conspiracy between industrial food and big pharma? Not sure, but I do question why our doctors throw pills at us for every ill we have and it STILL doesn't fix the underlying problem. Food can heal our chronic illnesses, like heart disease and cancer, if we eat the right foods. Check out the Weston A. Price Foundation for his research on the health of nonindustrial peoples and their typical diet and related health. It is quite eye opening. http://www.westonaprice.org/

USARAY

I know a lot of happy fat people the thin freaks assume they are unhappy
I call them freaks cause they act like freaks check out the definition
just like the last thread how about not telling other people how to live their lives
heres something for everyone

cause plus or skinny or just right you are

MotoDC

catefrances wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

"do i look fat in this dress, or is it because of this glazed donut???"

it is a vicious cycle. to keep weight off you need to restrict calories and exercise. but when you are heavy it hurts to be active. that leads to depression, and then people eat more carbs and comfort food, thus making them heavier.

it is really sad.

i say ban donuts!!!

oh and heres an observation ive made when ive been in the US(and not just this time)... your portions are rather big. i had this bowl of salad last night that was big enough to wear as a hat. yeah yeah i know its salad but....

Yes, in the US we have salads that are as unhealthy as anything else. It's insane, really.

"Here's to you, Mr Giant Taco Salad Inventor Guy..."

MotoDC

RW81233 wrote:

but in a capitalist system whereby profit is the chief concern isn't that untenable with a public consuming less? unless they are consuming overprocessed "diet" foods? put differently if profit is the only way to gauge success in the food industry how is producing nutritious food developed slowly but less cost-effectively, and selling it to a public that needs to "eat less" ever going to work?

I get what you're saying, but cooking good food healthfully is really, really expensive. Partly because non-processed foods and healthfully-sourced fish are pretty expensive, but also because of the waste (the amount of produce my wife and I throw out because we can't finish it before it goes bad is embarrassing).

In other words, companies can and are making a profit by selling nutritious food in lower volumes. It's definitely "niche" compared to the amount of processed foods that Americans eat, but it's there.

I think you make a lot of good points, but it's hard to take a big yummy bite out of your point of view when you seem to be selling the idea that obesity isn't a problem. It's not the ONLY health problem in the US, but it's a major one. One that is partially solved by getting people active again, even if again, it's not the ONLY piece of that puzzle.

Jason P wrote:

* Unhealthy food has major advantages over healthy food: It's cheaper; lasts longer; easier to prep; widely available, tastes good.

It only tastes good until you start cooking your own stuff with proper ingredients. Then you wonder how you ever ate it. Kentucky Fried Taco Hut, I'm looking at you.

catefrances

MotoDC wrote:

catefrances wrote:

i say ban donuts!!!

oh and heres an observation ive made when ive been in the US(and not just this time)... your portions are rather big. i had this bowl of salad last night that was big enough to wear as a hat. yeah yeah i know its salad but....

Yes, in the US we have salads that are as unhealthy as anything else. It's insane, really.

"Here's to you, Mr Giant Taco Salad Inventor Guy..."

they become unhealthy when you start adding shit to them. when i order salad i dont have dressing on it. or cheese. tho having said that, the salad i ordered last night had chicken in it that was already 'dressed' with some yummy hot spicy stuff so why would i add any more dressing, even if it was 'for the salad'? it was yummy tho.

gimmesometruth27

this is the result of teenage obesity...

Heavy teens with diabetes have trouble managing it, study finds

http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/h ... z1tZFl0Xfv

LOS ANGELES • New research sends a stark warning to overweight teens: If you develop diabetes, you'll have a very tough time keeping it under control.

A major study, released Sunday, tested several ways to manage blood sugar in teens newly diagnosed with diabetes and found that nearly half of the teens failed within a few years and 1 in 5 suffered serious complications. The results spell trouble for a nation facing rising rates of "diabesity" — Type 2 diabetes brought on by obesity.

The federally funded study is the largest look yet at how to treat diabetes in teens. Earlier studies have mostly been in adults, and most diabetes drugs aren't even approved for youths. The message is clear: Prevention is everything.

"Don't get diabetes in the first place," said Dr. Phil Zeitler of the University of Colorado Denver, one of the study leaders.

A third of American children and teens are overweight or obese. They are at higher risk of developing Type 2 diabetes, in which the body can't make enough insulin or use what it does make to process sugar from food. Until the obesity epidemic, doctors rarely saw children with Type 2 diabetes. The more common kind of diabetes in children is Type 1, which used to be called juvenile diabetes.

Doctors usually start Type 2 treatment with metformin, a pill to lower blood sugar. If it still can't be controlled, other drugs and daily insulin shots may be needed. The longer blood sugar runs rampant, the greater the risk of suffering vision loss, nerve damage, kidney failure, limb amputation — even heart attacks and strokes.

The goal of the study was simple: What's the best way for teens to keep diabetes in check?

The study involved 699 overweight and obese teens recently diagnosed with diabetes. All had their blood sugar normalized with metformin then were given one of three treatments to try to maintain that control: metformin alone, metformin plus diet and exercise counseling, or metformin plus a second drug, Avandia.

After nearly four years, half in the metformin group failed to maintain blood sugar control. The odds were a little better for the group that took two drugs but not much different for those in the lifestyle group.

Even so, Zeitler said doctors would not recommend this combination drug therapy because Avandia has been linked to higher risk of heart attacks in adults. Those risks became known after this study had started.

Another study leader from Children's Hospital Los Angeles, Dr. Mitchell Geffner, agreed that Avandia can't be recommended for teens, but said the study makes clear they will need more than metformin to control their disease.

"A single pill or single approach is not going to get the job done," he said.

Among all the teens in the study, 1 in 5 had a serious complication such as very high blood sugar, usually landing them in the hospital.

The results were published online Sunday by the New England Journal of Medicine and presented at a pediatric meeting in Boston. The National Institutes of Health funded the study and drug companies donated the medications.

The "discouraging" results point to the need to create "a healthier 'eat less, move more'" culture to help avoid obesity that contributes to diabetes, Dr. David Allen of the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health wrote in an accompanying editorial.

Judith Garcia, 19, still struggles to manage her diabetes with metformin and insulin years after taking part in the study at Children's Hospital Los Angeles. She has to remember to watch her diet and set aside time to exercise.

"Trust me, I'm working on it," said Garcia, who lives in Commerce, Calif.

Kelsi Amer, 14, a high school freshman from Patriot, Ind., knows how tough it is to keep her blood sugar from skyrocketing. Diagnosed at age 12, she takes metformin and gives herself insulin shots before school and at bedtime.

There are times when she has to miss class because she has to prick her finger to check her blood sugar or go with her mother to Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center for checkups.

"I try real hard and all of a sudden, I'm back to high blood sugar" levels, said Kelsi, who was not part of the research.

Smellyman

In Hong Kong people are pretty dang skinny and meals are usually not processed, just meat, veggies, rice etc.

then I watch Man vs. Food.....


it all seems so clear.

inlet13

whygohome wrote:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47211549/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/#.T57YuuxJhnM

A good read. This figure stuck out.

Nationally, that comes to $190 billion a year in additional medical spending as a result of obesity, calculated Cawley, or 20.6 percent of U.S. health care expenditures.

We stop trying to act like we can control people and we focus on incentives. Let me give an example,...

1) We try to promote economic and job growth (via incentives, not via pretending like gov't "creates" jobs)
2) As the economy improves and people gain more "real" money, they are less likely to buy shit fast food (this has been shown statistically)
3) Companies would be more likely to move towards more wellness programs as they realize there are cost-saving benefits (in healthcare, that is, if we go towards a more market-based system).

RW81233

inlet13 wrote:

whygohome wrote:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47211549/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/#.T57YuuxJhnM

A good read. This figure stuck out.

Nationally, that comes to $190 billion a year in additional medical spending as a result of obesity, calculated Cawley, or 20.6 percent of U.S. health care expenditures.

We stop trying to act like we can control people and we focus on incentives. Let me give an example,...

1) We try to promote economic and job growth (via incentives, not via pretending like gov't "creates" jobs)
2) As the economy improves and people gain more "real" money, they are less likely to buy shit fast food (this has been shown statistically)
3) Companies would be more likely to move towards more wellness programs as they realize there are cost-saving benefits (in healthcare, that is, if we go towards a more market-based system).

via point 3 isn't that big government intervention in the market?

PJ_Soul

It's all about portion size and educating kids about it constantly throughout childhood. But there needs to be pressure on the food service industry too. But in reality I don't think there is a solution at the moment. Impossible to change it right now because you just can't get that any people to break their behaviours and you cannot legislate how much food people put in their mouths or how much a business puts on a plate or packages. Maybe in a few generations we will see something IF the education system really steps up... which it won't.

riotgrl

inlet13 wrote:

whygohome wrote:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47211549/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/#.T57YuuxJhnM

A good read. This figure stuck out.

Nationally, that comes to $190 billion a year in additional medical spending as a result of obesity, calculated Cawley, or 20.6 percent of U.S. health care expenditures.

We stop trying to act like we can control people and we focus on incentives. Let me give an example,...

1) We try to promote economic and job growth (via incentives, not via pretending like gov't "creates" jobs)
2) As the economy improves and people gain more "real" money, they are less likely to buy shit fast food (this has been shown statistically)
3) Companies would be more likely to move towards more wellness programs as they realize there are cost-saving benefits (in healthcare, that is, if we go towards a more market-based system).

These 3 points would definitely be a start in the right direction. Statistics show that there is a link between obesity and poverty and low education levels. See this abstract about poverty and obesity: http://www.ajcn.org/content/79/1/6.full

If we look at this link between poverty and obesity, part of the problem is finding healthy food. If I go into neighborhoods with high poverty rates then I can usually find some fast food crap on every corner but it is harder to find a grocery store that carries fresh fruits and veggies. Look at this map of food deserts in the US [urlhttp://www.ers.usda.gov/data/fooddesert/fooddesert.html][/url] Now if we can just get business to go into these areas or better yet my city has a farmers market that is in the midst of a food desert!

And we need to educate kids from an early age about healthy food and show them how to make good choices so even if they are high poverty they can eat good food. Of course, that would mean actually serving healthy school lunches and I'm sure companies that supply schools with their over processed faux food don't want to give up those lucrative government contracts. That's where we as consumers need to force them to change.

pandora

Many fat kids of today are fat due to different reasons then when I was a kid.
But at either time in history it comes down to many factors not just what someone puts in their mouth.
It's as individual as the individual why we really can't do anything.

Education will help some but for those who are suffering from psychological problems
that will not address their issues.
These problems are at the root of weight problems that last a lifetime
and are classic in the yo yo effect.

For children who are or have been abused or feel their bodies are the only thing they can control
from early on in life, will continue this into adulthood.
When children have not received the proper bonding
and love or handle stress with food addiction, this can be the root to adult obesity.

Multiple factors come into play some of which have been mentioned here
in a understanding way, some not. The pic posted is the most uplifting...
to teach children and adults they are beautiful no matter what and as importantly they
just are... you are yourself, this we all have,
and this without judgment and assumptions from others
because when it comes down to it others have no idea....

RW81233

riotgrl wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

whygohome wrote:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47211549/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/#.T57YuuxJhnM

A good read. This figure stuck out.

Nationally, that comes to $190 billion a year in additional medical spending as a result of obesity, calculated Cawley, or 20.6 percent of U.S. health care expenditures.

We stop trying to act like we can control people and we focus on incentives. Let me give an example,...

1) We try to promote economic and job growth (via incentives, not via pretending like gov't "creates" jobs)
2) As the economy improves and people gain more "real" money, they are less likely to buy shit fast food (this has been shown statistically)
3) Companies would be more likely to move towards more wellness programs as they realize there are cost-saving benefits (in healthcare, that is, if we go towards a more market-based system).

These 3 points would definitely be a start in the right direction. Statistics show that there is a link between obesity and poverty and low education levels. See this abstract about poverty and obesity: http://www.ajcn.org/content/79/1/6.full

If we look at this link between poverty and obesity, part of the problem is finding healthy food. If I go into neighborhoods with high poverty rates then I can usually find some fast food crap on every corner but it is harder to find a grocery store that carries fresh fruits and veggies. Look at this map of food deserts in the US [urlhttp://www.ers.usda.gov/data/fooddesert/fooddesert.html][/url] Now if we can just get business to go into these areas or better yet my city has a farmers market that is in the midst of a food desert!

And we need to educate kids from an early age about healthy food and show them how to make good choices so even if they are high poverty they can eat good food. Of course, that would mean actually serving healthy school lunches and I'm sure companies that supply schools with their over processed faux food don't want to give up those lucrative government contracts. That's where we as consumers need to force them to change.

how about we eliminate poverty stricken communities and stop focusing on how fat individuals are. all i've been trying to argue is that by individualizing the "problem" of fatness we are falling into the neoliberal trap of individualizing a socio-economic problem that is systemic not individual. get rid of for profit food companies and start focusing on producing healthy, nutritious food and the population will be healthier whether fat or thin. by the way if you look at an obesity map you might not be shocked to see that the poorest states are the fattest..hmmm.

RW81233

also why is it so hard to see obesity as a farce when as recent as the 60s there were health manuals being sent out about how to gain weight for better health? or in the 1800s being fat meant you were rich enough to afford food? or the fact that we exercise more, don't smoke as much, cook with lard, drink whole milk, etc. in contemporary society...

your move now

ok but some of you realise that you're coming off as pro-obesity... it is bad for your health. period. we know that, what we thought or didn't know in the past is irrelevent

pandora

your move now wrote:

ok but some of you realise that you're coming off as pro-obesity... it is bad for your health. period. we know that, what we thought or didn't know in the past is irrelevent

My daughter went to an autopsy of a very large elderly woman
who was hit head on by a DUI driver.
She was obese and strong as an ox...
her heart, her organs, she would have lived to 100 the coroner said.

Not all fat people are unhealthy. Stress is more unhealthy than extra pounds
this is proven.

Perhaps we will come to find out in 20 years the BP meds that are being pushed like candy
to even our young adults cause kidney cancer. I would say that would be bad for one's health.
Just as bad as being overweight.
One thing about our health industry ...
they are continuing to learn and discover while we are the guinea pigs
at the mercy of somebody making big big ridiculously big bucks.

RW81233

your move now wrote:

ok but some of you realise that you're coming off as pro-obesity... it is bad for your health. period. we know that, what we thought or didn't know in the past is irrelevent

i think if you get into the nuance of my argument just because i'm anti-obesity as a problem of epidemic proportions does not mean that i don't think that our rapidly declining nutrition (often leading to larger bodies) created through an amalgam of corporately driven issues (schooling, news, exercise industrial-complex, research, medicine, pharmaceuticals, and food producers) is a problem. what i am arguing is that by individualizing the problem (ie. eat less and work out more) shifts the focus away from the true culprit in our declining health - capitalism. fat bodies can live a long fucking time, and thin bodies can die early. the argument that being fat is bad and that's where it stops is akin to arguing that being black means you're stupid and using numbers on standardized tests to prove it - then trying to solve the problem by telling black people to go to school. of course the latter would overlook the socio-economic disparities that most black people (or other ethnic minorities) emerge from, and is a far too simplistic created by and in the name of neoliberal capitalism.

RW81233

your move now wrote:

ok but some of you realise that you're coming off as pro-obesity... it is bad for your health. period. we know that, what we thought or didn't know in the past is irrelevent

also if you read the research on obesity they often just make shit up for how bad it is (see: Burgard, 2009; Campos, 2004; Gard, 2005, 2008, 2011). the obesity "epidemic" has been leveling out for a number of years but that doesn't sell newspapers or keep you watching television through the commercials so it doesn't get reported.

polaris_x

i dunno man ... i remember when vince carter and tracy mcgrady were going to the all star game and they were asked what they wanted for dinner and they said mcnuggets ...



to me ... the obesity issue is an example of what truly is wrong with america ... a corporately controlled gov't ... this corporatized gov't does this:

1. it allows industry to control the FDA - allowing shit practices and cancer causing chemicals to enter the food system ... also, allowing the food industry to be de-regulated ... see things like what is fat-free or all-natural ...
2. an unhealthy america is very profitable to many industries ... see insurance, health care, pharmaceuticals, etc ... there is an incentive to keep america unhealthy - profiteering ... just look at the commercials in the states ... it seems 1 in 3 is a drug related ad ...
3. the use of GMOs and pesticides had lowered the nutritional value of food in general ... so, even tho people are eating "vegetables" ... they likely don't contain the same nutritional content as they once did ... nevermind how the introduction of gmo's may be linked to other health related issues
4. the prosperity gap ... the rich have better access to good food ... it's a joke that "food" that is heavily processed and contains all kinds of shit is cheaper to buy than real food ...

combine this with the issue of entitled excess ... in america, more is better ... the result is that in general you have what you have ...