Charlie Manson still alive....wow

mickeyrat

Byrnzie wrote:

Newch91 wrote:

Those two need to fucking rot in hell. It has cost the state so much money keeping those two alive. They need to be put to death already.

Seeing as you mention 'hell', I take it you believe in the teachings of the Bible?

I have a question for you: Do you think Jesus would support the death penalty? Do you think he'd support the snuffing out of two lives in order simply to satisfy the blood lust of a few brainless individuals?

since he willing was taken to be put to death himself to fulfill prophecy, I have to say yes.

mickeyrat

Byrnzie wrote:

Isn't the test of any society to not be swayed by even the sickest of crimes and to resist bloodlust?

Or should society repeatedly sink to the level of the people it condemns, by killing them, thereby perpetuating the violence?

Should society not function on a level of morality above that of murderers?

the biggest problem society has is that human beings are involved. Remove human beings from the equation and society would be awesome.

we seem to forget the fact that humans are in fact an animal being. And will act with our most base primal instinct.

pandora

society needs laws to protect itself

In my opinion 21 years for killing 92 people is not protecting society.
This level of violence should be met with absolute banishment from society.
Murdering 92 people is not a mistake. There has to be consequence for taking
lives and two decades is just not enough. No second chance for cold blooded
mass murder... life imprisonment, anything less does not honor the value of life.

I am not a pro death penalty person but understand people who feel
the ultimate punishment and banishment from society is necessary
for justice in heinous acts against humanity.

satansbed

pandora wrote:

society needs laws to protect itself

In my opinion 21 years for killing 92 people is not protecting society.
This level of violence should be met with absolute banishment from society.
Murdering 92 people is not a mistake. There has to be consequence for taking
lives and two decades is just not enough. No second chance for cold blooded
mass murder... life imprisonment, anything less does not honor the value of life.

I am not a pro death penalty person but understand people who feel
the ultimate punishment and banishment from society is necessary
for justice in heinous acts against humanity.

it depends, in norway they really believe that they can rehabilitate people rather than the american system where it is about punishment

its just a different system,

i havent looked at the data but if the norwegion system works i think it would be better

satansbed

this is a pretty good article on it

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democrac ... an-justice



COMMENTING on a shared link to a Time slideshow offering a tour of Norway's Halden prison, the "world's most human prison", one of my Facebook friends says, "If you prefer comfort to liberty, go to Norway and commit murder. You could get 21 years in what looks like a nice dorm." A good number of Americans, it seems, are agitated by the possibility that Anders Behring Breivik, the Norwegian mass-murderer who gunned down scores of kids at an isolated summer camp, might end up at such a luxe detention facility. In this segment on Norway's "heavenly prison", the folks at Fox News seem sort of boggled by the idea that prisons might be anything other than the squalid overcrowded rape pens where human offal in America is sent to fester out of sight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... cVRaQOF-2o

It certainly does look nice!

After her review of Alden's amenities, Alana Goodman of Commentary comments:

[T]his isn’t a white-collar, minimum-security facility. This is a place for hardened criminals, and it’s typical of the Norwegian prison system as a whole. It’s one thing to favor rehabilitation for the majority of inmates, but it raises ethical questions when spending 20 years in a place like Halden could be the worst fate facing a mass murderer and political terrorist.
It does raise ethical questions. The maximum sentence in Norway is 21 years, though this can be extended indefinitely in five year blocks as long as the prisoner is deemed a "high risk" for repeat offence. Is this enough for a monster like Mr Breivik? And even if he spends life in prison, doesn't it offend our sense of justice to imagine a man responsible for such enormities whiling away his time jogging in the crisp air and putting on musicals in comfortable confinement?

I say, yes, it does offend our sense of justice. It offends mine. But I am very wary of my own instinct for retribution, and of yours. The idea of balancing some cosmic scale, of restoring the moral order to equilibrium, is deeply appealing. But there is no cosmic scale to balance. The moral order is not some sort of pervasive ethereal substance that threatens to undo us if monstrous offence is not met with equally ferocious punishment. If we are able to approach the matter rationally, which is hard, I think we will see that a society's main imperative is to guarantee the safety of its members by taking the criminal out of commission and then by punishing wrongdoers to the extent necessary to deter similar future crimes. I think we can be sure that Mr Breivik will not be left in a position to kill again. So the main question, to my mind, is whether a comfortable (and possibly relatively short) detention is sufficient to deter similar crimes. Though I do think the severity of punishment has some effect on the frequency of crimes, I doubt the severity of Mr Breivik's punishment will have anything at all to do with the future incidence of elaborately plotted massacres.

In general, my reaction to Norway's lenient, rehabilitation-focused justice system is not that the Norwegian sense of retributive justice is underdeveloped and defective, but that America's is. Norway has one of the world's lowest murder rates. America is worst in the developed world. Maybe we could learn something. Perhaps we should wonder why our detention facilities aren't more like Halden. Of course, we couldn't afford it, as we imprison such a disgracefully huge portion of our population, and in often sub-human conditions. This piece by Louis Theroux on Miami's main jail should give us pause. An excerpt:

The place has to be seen to be believed. Up to 24 inmates are crowded into a single cell, living behind metal bars on steel bunks, sharing a single shower and two toilets.Little of the bright Miami sun filters through the grilles on the windows. Visits to the yard happen twice a week for an hour. The rest of the time, inmates are holed up round the clock, eating, sleeping, and going slightly crazy.But what is most shocking is the behaviour of the inmates themselves. For reasons that remain to some extent opaque—perhaps because of the bleak conditions they live in or because of insufficient supervision by officers, maybe because they lack other outlets for their energies, or because of their involvement with gangs on the outside, or maybe from a warped jailhouse tradition—the incarcerated here have created a brutal gladiatorial code of fighting.They fight for respect, for food and snacks, or simply to pass the time.With around 7,000 inmates, the Miami jail system is one of the biggest in America—a so-called "mega-jail". Most of these inmates are on remand—awaiting bail or being held until their trial dates—usually for fairly minor offences.
Usually for fairly minor offences.

Were the mass-kid-killing Mr Breivik thrown into this lion's den, there's a good chance he would not come out alive. And I think a lot of Americans would cheer that result. But clearly there is something wrong with a lot of us such that so many of our jails and prisons are like this. And maybe there is something wrong with relishing the idea of Mr Breivik's lawless death at the hands of wilding prisoners.

Nothing can be done to bring Mr Breivik's victims back to life. The most compelling, non-mystical case for vengeance is that it offers some consolation to those wracked by desolation and fury at the murder of their loved one. But the point of a criminal justice system in a civilised society is not the mental peace of those collaterally wounded by crime. All evidence supports the proposition that Norway's criminal justice system is both practically and morally superior to America's. If America's abominably cruel and unjust system delivered results even remotely comparable to Norway's enviable level of civil peace and order, then there might be some reason to take seriously American animadversions against Norway's short sentences and humane prison. But we don't. We're not even close. So Americans should just shut up and watch. It could do us some good to see how a civilised society handles such a horrifying crime.

pandora

satansbed wrote:

pandora wrote:

society needs laws to protect itself

In my opinion 21 years for killing 92 people is not protecting society.
This level of violence should be met with absolute banishment from society.
Murdering 92 people is not a mistake. There has to be consequence for taking
lives and two decades is just not enough. No second chance for cold blooded
mass murder... life imprisonment, anything less does not honor the value of life.

I am not a pro death penalty person but understand people who feel
the ultimate punishment and banishment from society is necessary
for justice in heinous acts against humanity.

it depends, in norway they really believe that they can rehabilitate people rather than the american system where it is about punishment

its just a different system,

i havent looked at the data but if the norwegion system works i think it would be better

For the world's sake I hope they are right cause next he might kill 2000
in a different country other then their own :?

mikalina

Bronx Bombers wrote:

How many millions of dollars has it cost taxpayers to keep this piece of shit alive?

I agree -

He's had it pretty good in prison all these years - makes me sick.

Johnny Abruzzo

Byrnzie wrote:

One of the best books I ever read was Charles Manson in his own words.

Let's you see you through all the sensationalist media bullshit surrounding his case for what it really was. Oh, and in case you didn't know; he never killed anyone. And he isn't the devil.

Anyway...

Well, since he wrote that in his book...

whygohome

When I get to the bottom I go back to the top of the slide
Where I stop and I turn and I go for a ride
Till I get to the bottom and I see you again.

Do, don't you want me to love you
I'm coming down fast but I'm miles above you
Tell me, tell me, tell me, come on tell me the answer
You may be a lover but you ain't no dancer.

Helter skelter, helter skelter
Helter skelter.

Will you, won't you want me to make you
I'm coming down fast but don't let me break you
Tell me, tell me, tell me the answer
You may be a lover but you ain't no dancer.

Look out
Helter skelter, helter skelter
Helter skelter.
Look out 'cause here she comes.

When I get to the bottom I go back to the top of the slide
Where I stop and I turn and I go for a ride
Till I get to the bottom and I see you again.

Well do you, don't you want me to love you
I'm coming down fast but don't let me break you
Tell me, tell me, tell me the answer
You may be a lover but you ain't no dancer.

Look out
Helter skelter, helter skelter
Helter skelter.

Look out helter skelter
She's coming down fast.
Yes she is.
Yes she is

I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hedonist

I just read a couple of excerpts from the recommended book of Chuck.

His own words? HIS? I dunno...seemed way too lucid to me.

(however, I think tonight will be a good one to pull out the White Album and give her a go)

whygohome

hedonist wrote:

(however, I think tonight will be a good one to pull out the White Album and give her a go)

Beat ya to it...

Cosmo

hedonist wrote:

...
Hey... isn't that the guy painted on the tails of the Alaska Airlines jets?

hedonist

Cosmo wrote:

hedonist wrote:

...
Hey... isn't that the guy painted on the tails of the Alaska Airlines jets?

Byrnzie

mikalina wrote:

He's had it pretty good in prison all these years

I take it you know what it's like to spend 40 years in a U.S prison then?

Strange, but I saw a documentary on life within U.S prisons last year and it looked to be anything but 'pretty good'.

Byrnzie

hedonist wrote:

I just read a couple of excerpts from the recommended book of Chuck.

His own words? HIS? I dunno...seemed way too lucid to me.

(however, I think tonight will be a good one to pull out the White Album and give her a go)

You mean he didn't come across like the crazy, provocative face that he presents to the media?

You should read the whole book. It's an interesting story, in many ways.

hedonist

Byrnzie wrote:

hedonist wrote:

I just read a couple of excerpts from the recommended book of Chuck.

His own words? HIS? I dunno...seemed way too lucid to me.

(however, I think tonight will be a good one to pull out the White Album and give her a go)

You mean he didn't come across like the crazy, provocative face that he presents to the media?

You should read the whole book. It's an interesting story, in many ways.

So he chooses to show the madness? That in itself is intriguing, because he strikes me as a madman. Always has.

You know, I will search it out...and not only to satisfy my fascination for minds/outlooks like his. Kinda like Ted Bundy. I wouldn't say that he was similar to Manson - another (beyond) strange bird, for sure - but...interesting.

satansbed

Byrnzie wrote:

mikalina wrote:

He's had it pretty good in prison all these years

I take it you know what it's like to spend 40 years in a U.S prison then?

Strange, but I saw a documentary on life within U.S prisons last year and it looked to be anything but 'pretty good'.

yeah to be honest i would prefer to be dead than to spend the rest of my life in a U.S Prison,

brianlux

Byrnzie wrote:

mikalina wrote:

He's had it pretty good in prison all these years

I take it you know what it's like to spend 40 years in a U.S prison then?

Strange, but I saw a documentary on life within U.S prisons last year and it looked to be anything but 'pretty good'.

Yep, right here in good ol' California---San Quentin-- which I fortunately drive by only 3 or 4 times a year. Somehow that place just doesn't look like a country club to me.

Byrnzie

mickeyrat wrote:

the biggest problem society has is that human beings are involved. Remove human beings from the equation and society would be awesome.

we seem to forget the fact that humans are in fact an animal being. And will act with our most base primal instinct.

Human beings don't exist within a vacuum. We are effected and influenced by our surroundings and by the people around us.

Societies laws, which are allegedly created and implemented to serve and protect some form of morality, should not function on the level of base primal instincts and blood lust.

Byrnzie

mickeyrat wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

I have a question for you: Do you think Jesus would support the death penalty? Do you think he'd support the snuffing out of two lives in order simply to satisfy the blood lust of a few brainless individuals?

since he willing was taken to be put to death himself to fulfill prophecy, I have to say yes.

Really? Based on your belief in the Bible you think that Jesus would support state-sanctioned executions?

I suppose people can twist anything to make it suit them.