All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Parole hearing! And Connecticut just outlawed the death penalty. :roll:
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; SeaHearNow Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
Seems like most of the extra costs related to the death penalty are in the cases being tied up in appeals that have nothing to do with proving the innocence of the convicted; rather they are just looking for some technicality.
Get rid of that and next thing you know we're Norway; 23 years for killing 80 people.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; SeaHearNow Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
Parole hearing! And Connecticut just outlawed the death penalty. :roll:
The repeal won't affect the 11 inmates currently on death row which means those two fucking animals who raped and murdered the Petit family will get the justice they deserve.
Parole hearing! And Connecticut just outlawed the death penalty. :roll:
The repeal won't affect the 11 inmates currently on death row which means those two fucking animals who raped and murdered the Petit family will get the justice they deserve.
We'll see...
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; SeaHearNow Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
Get rid of that and next thing you know we're Norway; 23 years for killing 80 people.
I questioned this and looked it up ... you are correct, I am shocked.
I read an article about their laws and this quote was in closing ...
None of this is likely to matter to Norwegians, or to most Europeans now. “Even if a lot of people think 21 years is too little, in Scandinavian countries it’s deeply ingrained that criminals should have a second chance in society,” says Geir Ruud, the Norwegian editor of Ekstra Bladet, a Danish newspaper. “These are the values all those kids who were killed believed in, and the values Breivik fought against. If we let his crime change our societies, then he will have won.”
I questioned this and looked it up ... you are correct, I am shocked.
I read an article about their laws and this quote was in closing ...
None of this is likely to matter to Norwegians, or to most Europeans now. “Even if a lot of people think 21 years is too little, in Scandinavian countries it’s deeply ingrained that criminals should have a second chance in society,” says Geir Ruud, the Norwegian editor of Ekstra Bladet, a Danish newspaper. “These are the values all those kids who were killed believed in, and the values Breivik fought against. If we let his crime change our societies, then he will have won.”
and yes Charlie still has those same crazy ass eyes ... windows to the soul
I am glad he did not walk free in 21 years :?
Norway's handling of the entire situation is stunning. Strong country, holding onto their values in the face of what was (by % of population) a more deadly attack on the conutry than 9/11 was for the United States.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
I questioned this and looked it up ... you are correct, I am shocked.
I read an article about their laws and this quote was in closing ...
None of this is likely to matter to Norwegians, or to most Europeans now. “Even if a lot of people think 21 years is too little, in Scandinavian countries it’s deeply ingrained that criminals should have a second chance in society,” says Geir Ruud, the Norwegian editor of Ekstra Bladet, a Danish newspaper. “These are the values all those kids who were killed believed in, and the values Breivik fought against. If we let his crime change our societies, then he will have won.”
and yes Charlie still has those same crazy ass eyes ... windows to the soul
I am glad he did not walk free in 21 years :?
Norway's handling of the entire situation is stunning. Strong country, holding onto their values in the face of what was (by % of population) a more deadly attack on the conutry than 9/11 was for the United States.
I agree
you can't cure crazy ass though so I hope Anders Behring Breivik is all they will know of this
for a very long time
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; SeaHearNow Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
One of the best books I ever read was Charles Manson in his own words.
Let's you see you through all the sensationalist media bullshit surrounding his case for what it really was. Oh, and in case you didn't know; he never killed anyone. And he isn't the devil.
Anyway...
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I don't doubt the book was fascinating (and good on him that he had the freedom to write a book while in prison. Amazing).
Parole hearing! And Connecticut just outlawed the death penalty. :roll:
The repeal won't affect the 11 inmates currently on death row which means those two fucking animals who raped and murdered the Petit family will get the justice they deserve.
Those two need to fucking rot in hell. It has cost the state so much money keeping those two alive. They need to be put to death already.
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
Parole hearing! And Connecticut just outlawed the death penalty. :roll:
The repeal won't affect the 11 inmates currently on death row which means those two fucking animals who raped and murdered the Petit family will get the justice they deserve.
We'll see...
It's not going to affect the people who are already on death row.
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
Those two need to fucking rot in hell. It has cost the state so much money keeping those two alive. They need to be put to death already.
Seeing as you mention 'hell', I take it you believe in the teachings of the Bible?
I have a question for you: Do you think Jesus would support the death penalty? Do you think he'd support the snuffing out of two lives in order simply to satisfy the blood lust of a few brainless individuals?
Those two need to fucking rot in hell. It has cost the state so much money keeping those two alive. They need to be put to death already.
Seeing as you mention 'hell', I take it you believe in the teachings of the Bible?
I have a question for you: Do you think Jesus would support the death penalty? Do you think he'd support the snuffing out of two lives in order simply to satisfy the blood lust of a few brainless individuals?
since he willing was taken to be put to death himself to fulfill prophecy, I have to say yes.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,802
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
In my opinion 21 years for killing 92 people is not protecting society.
This level of violence should be met with absolute banishment from society.
Murdering 92 people is not a mistake. There has to be consequence for taking
lives and two decades is just not enough. No second chance for cold blooded
mass murder... life imprisonment, anything less does not honor the value of life.
I am not a pro death penalty person but understand people who feel
the ultimate punishment and banishment from society is necessary
for justice in heinous acts against humanity.
In my opinion 21 years for killing 92 people is not protecting society.
This level of violence should be met with absolute banishment from society.
Murdering 92 people is not a mistake. There has to be consequence for taking
lives and two decades is just not enough. No second chance for cold blooded
mass murder... life imprisonment, anything less does not honor the value of life.
I am not a pro death penalty person but understand people who feel
the ultimate punishment and banishment from society is necessary
for justice in heinous acts against humanity.
it depends, in norway they really believe that they can rehabilitate people rather than the american system where it is about punishment
its just a different system,
i havent looked at the data but if the norwegion system works i think it would be better
COMMENTING on a shared link to a Time slideshow offering a tour of Norway's Halden prison, the "world's most human prison", one of my Facebook friends says, "If you prefer comfort to liberty, go to Norway and commit murder. You could get 21 years in what looks like a nice dorm." A good number of Americans, it seems, are agitated by the possibility that Anders Behring Breivik, the Norwegian mass-murderer who gunned down scores of kids at an isolated summer camp, might end up at such a luxe detention facility. In this segment on Norway's "heavenly prison", the folks at Fox News seem sort of boggled by the idea that prisons might be anything other than the squalid overcrowded rape pens where human offal in America is sent to fester out of sight.
After her review of Alden's amenities, Alana Goodman of Commentary comments:
[T]his isn’t a white-collar, minimum-security facility. This is a place for hardened criminals, and it’s typical of the Norwegian prison system as a whole. It’s one thing to favor rehabilitation for the majority of inmates, but it raises ethical questions when spending 20 years in a place like Halden could be the worst fate facing a mass murderer and political terrorist.
It does raise ethical questions. The maximum sentence in Norway is 21 years, though this can be extended indefinitely in five year blocks as long as the prisoner is deemed a "high risk" for repeat offence. Is this enough for a monster like Mr Breivik? And even if he spends life in prison, doesn't it offend our sense of justice to imagine a man responsible for such enormities whiling away his time jogging in the crisp air and putting on musicals in comfortable confinement?
I say, yes, it does offend our sense of justice. It offends mine. But I am very wary of my own instinct for retribution, and of yours. The idea of balancing some cosmic scale, of restoring the moral order to equilibrium, is deeply appealing. But there is no cosmic scale to balance. The moral order is not some sort of pervasive ethereal substance that threatens to undo us if monstrous offence is not met with equally ferocious punishment. If we are able to approach the matter rationally, which is hard, I think we will see that a society's main imperative is to guarantee the safety of its members by taking the criminal out of commission and then by punishing wrongdoers to the extent necessary to deter similar future crimes. I think we can be sure that Mr Breivik will not be left in a position to kill again. So the main question, to my mind, is whether a comfortable (and possibly relatively short) detention is sufficient to deter similar crimes. Though I do think the severity of punishment has some effect on the frequency of crimes, I doubt the severity of Mr Breivik's punishment will have anything at all to do with the future incidence of elaborately plotted massacres.
In general, my reaction to Norway's lenient, rehabilitation-focused justice system is not that the Norwegian sense of retributive justice is underdeveloped and defective, but that America's is. Norway has one of the world's lowest murder rates. America is worst in the developed world. Maybe we could learn something. Perhaps we should wonder why our detention facilities aren't more like Halden. Of course, we couldn't afford it, as we imprison such a disgracefully huge portion of our population, and in often sub-human conditions. This piece by Louis Theroux on Miami's main jail should give us pause. An excerpt:
The place has to be seen to be believed. Up to 24 inmates are crowded into a single cell, living behind metal bars on steel bunks, sharing a single shower and two toilets.Little of the bright Miami sun filters through the grilles on the windows. Visits to the yard happen twice a week for an hour. The rest of the time, inmates are holed up round the clock, eating, sleeping, and going slightly crazy.But what is most shocking is the behaviour of the inmates themselves. For reasons that remain to some extent opaque—perhaps because of the bleak conditions they live in or because of insufficient supervision by officers, maybe because they lack other outlets for their energies, or because of their involvement with gangs on the outside, or maybe from a warped jailhouse tradition—the incarcerated here have created a brutal gladiatorial code of fighting.They fight for respect, for food and snacks, or simply to pass the time.With around 7,000 inmates, the Miami jail system is one of the biggest in America—a so-called "mega-jail". Most of these inmates are on remand—awaiting bail or being held until their trial dates—usually for fairly minor offences.
Usually for fairly minor offences.
Were the mass-kid-killing Mr Breivik thrown into this lion's den, there's a good chance he would not come out alive. And I think a lot of Americans would cheer that result. But clearly there is something wrong with a lot of us such that so many of our jails and prisons are like this. And maybe there is something wrong with relishing the idea of Mr Breivik's lawless death at the hands of wilding prisoners.
Nothing can be done to bring Mr Breivik's victims back to life. The most compelling, non-mystical case for vengeance is that it offers some consolation to those wracked by desolation and fury at the murder of their loved one. But the point of a criminal justice system in a civilised society is not the mental peace of those collaterally wounded by crime. All evidence supports the proposition that Norway's criminal justice system is both practically and morally superior to America's. If America's abominably cruel and unjust system delivered results even remotely comparable to Norway's enviable level of civil peace and order, then there might be some reason to take seriously American animadversions against Norway's short sentences and humane prison. But we don't. We're not even close. So Americans should just shut up and watch. It could do us some good to see how a civilised society handles such a horrifying crime.
In my opinion 21 years for killing 92 people is not protecting society.
This level of violence should be met with absolute banishment from society.
Murdering 92 people is not a mistake. There has to be consequence for taking
lives and two decades is just not enough. No second chance for cold blooded
mass murder... life imprisonment, anything less does not honor the value of life.
I am not a pro death penalty person but understand people who feel
the ultimate punishment and banishment from society is necessary
for justice in heinous acts against humanity.
it depends, in norway they really believe that they can rehabilitate people rather than the american system where it is about punishment
its just a different system,
i havent looked at the data but if the norwegion system works i think it would be better
For the world's sake I hope they are right cause next he might kill 2000
in a different country other then their own :?
One of the best books I ever read was Charles Manson in his own words.
Let's you see you through all the sensationalist media bullshit surrounding his case for what it really was. Oh, and in case you didn't know; he never killed anyone. And he isn't the devil.
Anyway...
Well, since he wrote that in his book...
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; SeaHearNow Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
When I get to the bottom I go back to the top of the slide
Where I stop and I turn and I go for a ride
Till I get to the bottom and I see you again.
Do, don't you want me to love you
I'm coming down fast but I'm miles above you
Tell me, tell me, tell me, come on tell me the answer
You may be a lover but you ain't no dancer.
Helter skelter, helter skelter
Helter skelter.
Will you, won't you want me to make you
I'm coming down fast but don't let me break you
Tell me, tell me, tell me the answer
You may be a lover but you ain't no dancer.
Look out
Helter skelter, helter skelter
Helter skelter.
Look out 'cause here she comes.
When I get to the bottom I go back to the top of the slide
Where I stop and I turn and I go for a ride
Till I get to the bottom and I see you again.
Well do you, don't you want me to love you
I'm coming down fast but don't let me break you
Tell me, tell me, tell me the answer
You may be a lover but you ain't no dancer.
Look out
Helter skelter, helter skelter
Helter skelter.
Look out helter skelter
She's coming down fast.
Yes she is.
Yes she is
I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I just read a couple of excerpts from the recommended book of Chuck.
His own words? HIS? I dunno...seemed way too lucid to me.
(however, I think tonight will be a good one to pull out the White Album and give her a go)
Godfather.
Posts: 12,504
Comments
Well duh...dude's been in prison for what, 40+ years now?
Still got those crazy eyes.
(Steve Railsback nailed it in the film, too)
WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16;
Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; SeaHearNow Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
BINGO !!!!! WE HAVE A WINNER !
I was wondering the same thing.
Godfather.
There are two sides to each arguement.
Decide for yourself (based upon realities, rather than gut feelings):
http://deathpenalty.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=001000
Hail, Hail!!!
Seems like most of the extra costs related to the death penalty are in the cases being tied up in appeals that have nothing to do with proving the innocence of the convicted; rather they are just looking for some technicality.
Get rid of that and next thing you know we're Norway; 23 years for killing 80 people.
WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16;
Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; SeaHearNow Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
The repeal won't affect the 11 inmates currently on death row which means those two fucking animals who raped and murdered the Petit family will get the justice they deserve.
We'll see...
WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16;
Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; SeaHearNow Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
I read an article about their laws and this quote was in closing ...
None of this is likely to matter to Norwegians, or to most Europeans now. “Even if a lot of people think 21 years is too little, in Scandinavian countries it’s deeply ingrained that criminals should have a second chance in society,” says Geir Ruud, the Norwegian editor of Ekstra Bladet, a Danish newspaper. “These are the values all those kids who were killed believed in, and the values Breivik fought against. If we let his crime change our societies, then he will have won.”
this the interesting article comparing countries
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... years.html
hope the Daily Beast is acceptable
and yes Charlie still has those same crazy ass eyes ... windows to the soul
I am glad he did not walk free in 21 years :?
you can't cure crazy ass though so I hope Anders Behring Breivik is all they will know of this
for a very long time
Why wouldn't it be?
21 years - I was too high.
Banned the death penalty in 1902. Wow.
WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16;
Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; SeaHearNow Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
Let's you see you through all the sensationalist media bullshit surrounding his case for what it really was. Oh, and in case you didn't know; he never killed anyone. And he isn't the devil.
Anyway...
Yes, he didn't literally kill anyone.
Poor guy.
Sorry, Charlie!
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
Seeing as you mention 'hell', I take it you believe in the teachings of the Bible?
I have a question for you: Do you think Jesus would support the death penalty? Do you think he'd support the snuffing out of two lives in order simply to satisfy the blood lust of a few brainless individuals?
Or should society repeatedly sink to the level of the people it condemns, by killing them, thereby perpetuating the violence?
Should society not function on a level of morality above that of murderers?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
we seem to forget the fact that humans are in fact an animal being. And will act with our most base primal instinct.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
In my opinion 21 years for killing 92 people is not protecting society.
This level of violence should be met with absolute banishment from society.
Murdering 92 people is not a mistake. There has to be consequence for taking
lives and two decades is just not enough. No second chance for cold blooded
mass murder... life imprisonment, anything less does not honor the value of life.
I am not a pro death penalty person but understand people who feel
the ultimate punishment and banishment from society is necessary
for justice in heinous acts against humanity.
it depends, in norway they really believe that they can rehabilitate people rather than the american system where it is about punishment
its just a different system,
i havent looked at the data but if the norwegion system works i think it would be better
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democrac ... an-justice
COMMENTING on a shared link to a Time slideshow offering a tour of Norway's Halden prison, the "world's most human prison", one of my Facebook friends says, "If you prefer comfort to liberty, go to Norway and commit murder. You could get 21 years in what looks like a nice dorm." A good number of Americans, it seems, are agitated by the possibility that Anders Behring Breivik, the Norwegian mass-murderer who gunned down scores of kids at an isolated summer camp, might end up at such a luxe detention facility. In this segment on Norway's "heavenly prison", the folks at Fox News seem sort of boggled by the idea that prisons might be anything other than the squalid overcrowded rape pens where human offal in America is sent to fester out of sight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... cVRaQOF-2o
It certainly does look nice!
After her review of Alden's amenities, Alana Goodman of Commentary comments:
[T]his isn’t a white-collar, minimum-security facility. This is a place for hardened criminals, and it’s typical of the Norwegian prison system as a whole. It’s one thing to favor rehabilitation for the majority of inmates, but it raises ethical questions when spending 20 years in a place like Halden could be the worst fate facing a mass murderer and political terrorist.
It does raise ethical questions. The maximum sentence in Norway is 21 years, though this can be extended indefinitely in five year blocks as long as the prisoner is deemed a "high risk" for repeat offence. Is this enough for a monster like Mr Breivik? And even if he spends life in prison, doesn't it offend our sense of justice to imagine a man responsible for such enormities whiling away his time jogging in the crisp air and putting on musicals in comfortable confinement?
I say, yes, it does offend our sense of justice. It offends mine. But I am very wary of my own instinct for retribution, and of yours. The idea of balancing some cosmic scale, of restoring the moral order to equilibrium, is deeply appealing. But there is no cosmic scale to balance. The moral order is not some sort of pervasive ethereal substance that threatens to undo us if monstrous offence is not met with equally ferocious punishment. If we are able to approach the matter rationally, which is hard, I think we will see that a society's main imperative is to guarantee the safety of its members by taking the criminal out of commission and then by punishing wrongdoers to the extent necessary to deter similar future crimes. I think we can be sure that Mr Breivik will not be left in a position to kill again. So the main question, to my mind, is whether a comfortable (and possibly relatively short) detention is sufficient to deter similar crimes. Though I do think the severity of punishment has some effect on the frequency of crimes, I doubt the severity of Mr Breivik's punishment will have anything at all to do with the future incidence of elaborately plotted massacres.
In general, my reaction to Norway's lenient, rehabilitation-focused justice system is not that the Norwegian sense of retributive justice is underdeveloped and defective, but that America's is. Norway has one of the world's lowest murder rates. America is worst in the developed world. Maybe we could learn something. Perhaps we should wonder why our detention facilities aren't more like Halden. Of course, we couldn't afford it, as we imprison such a disgracefully huge portion of our population, and in often sub-human conditions. This piece by Louis Theroux on Miami's main jail should give us pause. An excerpt:
The place has to be seen to be believed. Up to 24 inmates are crowded into a single cell, living behind metal bars on steel bunks, sharing a single shower and two toilets.Little of the bright Miami sun filters through the grilles on the windows. Visits to the yard happen twice a week for an hour. The rest of the time, inmates are holed up round the clock, eating, sleeping, and going slightly crazy.But what is most shocking is the behaviour of the inmates themselves. For reasons that remain to some extent opaque—perhaps because of the bleak conditions they live in or because of insufficient supervision by officers, maybe because they lack other outlets for their energies, or because of their involvement with gangs on the outside, or maybe from a warped jailhouse tradition—the incarcerated here have created a brutal gladiatorial code of fighting.They fight for respect, for food and snacks, or simply to pass the time.With around 7,000 inmates, the Miami jail system is one of the biggest in America—a so-called "mega-jail". Most of these inmates are on remand—awaiting bail or being held until their trial dates—usually for fairly minor offences.
Usually for fairly minor offences.
Were the mass-kid-killing Mr Breivik thrown into this lion's den, there's a good chance he would not come out alive. And I think a lot of Americans would cheer that result. But clearly there is something wrong with a lot of us such that so many of our jails and prisons are like this. And maybe there is something wrong with relishing the idea of Mr Breivik's lawless death at the hands of wilding prisoners.
Nothing can be done to bring Mr Breivik's victims back to life. The most compelling, non-mystical case for vengeance is that it offers some consolation to those wracked by desolation and fury at the murder of their loved one. But the point of a criminal justice system in a civilised society is not the mental peace of those collaterally wounded by crime. All evidence supports the proposition that Norway's criminal justice system is both practically and morally superior to America's. If America's abominably cruel and unjust system delivered results even remotely comparable to Norway's enviable level of civil peace and order, then there might be some reason to take seriously American animadversions against Norway's short sentences and humane prison. But we don't. We're not even close. So Americans should just shut up and watch. It could do us some good to see how a civilised society handles such a horrifying crime.
in a different country other then their own :?
I agree -
He's had it pretty good in prison all these years - makes me sick.
Well, since he wrote that in his book...
WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16;
Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; SeaHearNow Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
Where I stop and I turn and I go for a ride
Till I get to the bottom and I see you again.
Do, don't you want me to love you
I'm coming down fast but I'm miles above you
Tell me, tell me, tell me, come on tell me the answer
You may be a lover but you ain't no dancer.
Helter skelter, helter skelter
Helter skelter.
Will you, won't you want me to make you
I'm coming down fast but don't let me break you
Tell me, tell me, tell me the answer
You may be a lover but you ain't no dancer.
Look out
Helter skelter, helter skelter
Helter skelter.
Look out 'cause here she comes.
When I get to the bottom I go back to the top of the slide
Where I stop and I turn and I go for a ride
Till I get to the bottom and I see you again.
Well do you, don't you want me to love you
I'm coming down fast but don't let me break you
Tell me, tell me, tell me the answer
You may be a lover but you ain't no dancer.
Look out
Helter skelter, helter skelter
Helter skelter.
Look out helter skelter
She's coming down fast.
Yes she is.
Yes she is
I've got blisters on my fingers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
His own words? HIS? I dunno...seemed way too lucid to me.
(however, I think tonight will be a good one to pull out the White Album and give her a go)