Canadian Politics

lukin2006

I'm thinking he's stepping down because shit was about to hit the fan...whoever they elect as leader will likely come from someone well connected within party circles...I'm sure Duncan will be running and he's about as old school liberal as you get.

Doesn't change anything "the damage is done". I am going to be more interested in the editorials and people's comment in regards to him proroguing the legislature. I remember when Harper did it people writing editorial columns had a field day...not to mention the people commenting in newspapers, online etc..

Of course the media will somehow spin it favourably for Dalton...even though it looks more like he's trying to protect the energy minister. Just for the record...I didn't care that Harper did it and it doesn't much bother me that Dalton's doing it...its a tool at their disposal and their just using it...i'm more interested to see how the media portrays it.

It shall be interesting times in Ontario...most likely spring election...

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

I'm thinking he's stepping down because shit was about to hit the fan...whoever they elect as leader will likely come from someone well connected within party circles...I'm sure Duncan will be running and he's about as old school liberal as you get.

Doesn't change anything "the damage is done". I am going to be more interested in the editorials and people's comment in regards to him proroguing the legislature. I remember when Harper did it people writing editorial columns had a field day...not to mention the people commenting in newspapers, online etc..

Of course the media will somehow spin it favourably for Dalton...even though it looks more like he's trying to protect the energy minister. Just for the record...I didn't care that Harper did it and it doesn't much bother me that Dalton's doing it...its a tool at their disposal and their just using it...i'm more interested to see how the media portrays it.

It shall be interesting times in Ontario...most likely spring election...

dude ... those are two different situations ... harper prorogued the gov't because he was going to have a vote of no-confidence ... mcguinty is doing it so there is time to elect a new leader ... what else is he supposed to do? ... continue to lead as a lame duck premier and ultimately get nothing done? ... that makes no sense ...

if it's duncan or bentley - it will pretty much be par for the course ...

i know you hate the guy but i would give him a C+ for his time ... ultimately, it is near impossible to govern in a way that is going to make everyone happy and people these days don't evaluate critically or objectively ...

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

I'm thinking he's stepping down because shit was about to hit the fan...whoever they elect as leader will likely come from someone well connected within party circles...I'm sure Duncan will be running and he's about as old school liberal as you get.

Doesn't change anything "the damage is done". I am going to be more interested in the editorials and people's comment in regards to him proroguing the legislature. I remember when Harper did it people writing editorial columns had a field day...not to mention the people commenting in newspapers, online etc..

Of course the media will somehow spin it favourably for Dalton...even though it looks more like he's trying to protect the energy minister. Just for the record...I didn't care that Harper did it and it doesn't much bother me that Dalton's doing it...its a tool at their disposal and their just using it...i'm more interested to see how the media portrays it.



It shall be interesting times in Ontario...most likely spring election...

dude ... those are two different situations ... harper prorogued the gov't because he was going to have a vote of no-confidence ... mcguinty is doing it so there is time to elect a new leader ... what else is he supposed to do? ... continue to lead as a lame duck premier and ultimately get nothing done? ... that makes no sense ...

if it's duncan or bentley - it will pretty much be par for the course ...

i know you hate the guy but i would give him a C+ for his time ... ultimately, it is near impossible to govern in a way that is going to make everyone happy and people these days don't evaluate critically or objectively ...

Really...since Bentley is facing contempt charges...one could say he is protecting his friend...but what do the rest of us know...some of us are just mere mortals on the amt.



And actually I hate all politicians...they leach off the productivity of others.

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

Really...since Bentley is facing contempt charges...one could say he is protecting his friend...but what do the rest of us know...some of us are just mere mortals on the amt.



And actually I hate all politicians...they leach off the productivity of others.

actually ... in retrospect ... it's quite possible the prorogation was to cover up some other scandal ... in the end, it will come out ... it was really weird listening to janet ecker praise the premier this morning ...

lukin2006

In all likelihood he knew he could not win the next election...the names I've heard for leadership are...Duncan, Mathews and Bentley as front runners...so if that's true its the same old anyway.

lukin2006

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... successor/

Scott Stinson: McGuinty silences legislature in parting gift to his successor


When Dalton McGuinty announced last night at around 6:30 p.m. that he had asked the Lieutenant-Governor to prorogue the provincial legislature, the instant reaction was: guess he’s not quitting.

Prorogation is a big deal, big enough to have warranted the surprise evening caucus meeting, big enough to have merited calling the media in to the government caucus room to witness the premier’s remarks.

Then he went and quit anyway. Coupled with the cleverly timed leaks from Liberal insiders that speculated about a possible McGuinty run for the federal party leadership, it was enough to distract most of the attention from the prorogation itself.

Shutting down the legislature, which is what the move does, is worrisome in its own right for what it says about the importance of our elected representation. If the thing can just be shuttered and the government left to chug along in the hands of the bureaucracy, then why did we have that election only a year ago?

The response from provincial Liberal supporters is, not surprisingly, almost exactly the same as the response from federal Conservatives back when Stephen Harper sought and obtained a prorogation in 2011 (and before that, in 2008). They say the minority government is unworkable, and so best to close it down and sort things out, then bring it back when the air is clear and we can all get on with our business. Opposition politicians are outraged that they are now being prevented from doing any work — and no less outraged that the prorogation allows the government of the day, as was the case federally, to elude further scrutiny of scandals at the committee.

Fans of irony will note that the cheerleaders of one side have more or less switched teams this time around (with the exception of the NDP, which is outraged all around.) It’s been suggested to me that it’s unfair to lump Dalton McGuinty in with Stephen Harper, however, because there are clear differences with the Ontario premier’s situation. He’s not planning to survive the prorogation, for one, and there’s no immediate election in the offing.

Both these arguments are true, but I don’t see how they reflect better on the premier. Whatever one wants to say about the affront to democracy caused by the last prorogation on Mr. Harper’s watch, he at least staked his government and his job on the outcome of the ensuing election, although it didn’t immediately follow it. Canadians had an opportunity to reject his justifications for it and put someone else in charge; instead they handed him a majority government.

Ontario voters have no such opportunity. Mr. McGuinty’s wish, explained Monday night, is that it will be up to whomever replaces him as premier to bring the legislature back. That could be several months from now: the Ontario Liberals have to determine how and when to hold a leadership race that is coming out of nowhere first.

In the meantime, the scandals that have been front and centre in the Liberals’ terrible fall will not be fully explored. This can’t be emphasized enough: it is possible that the government position on the cancellation of two gas plants has been fully explained, but there is more than enough reason to believe that further embarrassments would have been unveiled by a Finance Committee probe of the affair. The final cost to taxpayers could be revealed as far higher than the $230-million cited by the Liberals. And the amount of political influence on the decision could be firmly established as wide and deep.

Mr. McGuinty said last night he was motivated simply by a decision to spend more time with his family and a desire to see his party begin an important renewal process.

It’s an altogether too innocuous explanation for a prorogation that is a deeply cynical move.

National Post

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

In all likelihood he knew he could not win the next election...the names I've heard for leadership are...Duncan, Mathews and Bentley as front runners...so if that's true its the same old anyway.

thing is they just had a leadership review where he got the thumbs up ...

yeah ... fuck those guys ... we're screwed ... maybe gerard kennedy will run ... he's basically useless in federal politics ...

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

In all likelihood he knew he could not win the next election...the names I've heard for leadership are...Duncan, Mathews and Bentley as front runners...so if that's true its the same old anyway.

thing is they just had a leadership review where he got the thumbs up ...

yeah ... fuck those guys ... we're screwed ... maybe gerard kennedy will run ... he's basically useless in federal politics ...

Unless Gerard Kennedy has learned French he'll likely always be a backbencher in Federal politics. The question would be does he want to come back to provincial politics and possibly sit in opposition or even third party status? Not to mention clean up a mess that was not his making. Or would he rather take his chances that the Federals Liberals under a new leader is on their way up.

The biggest problem for whoever takes over is the mess he's created with the education unions and now public sector unions in general. I think we saw the future with the results in Kitchener-Waterloo...the teachers mobilized their and the got the NDP elected. I said it before the teachers played a major part in Rae's downfall, Harris's downfall and now McGuinty's downfall.

The teachers are a political bunch...they don't just vote...they spend money on advertising...they take time off to canvass...they are very politically active.

Whether anyone thinks they deserve the pay and perks they get...they do and work hard to keep what they got.

lukin2006

Dalton McGuinty’s resignation: Jockeying under way to be Ontario’s next premier

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/poli ... xt-premier

Kel Varnsen

dude ... those are two different situations ... harper prorogued the gov't because he was going to have a vote of no-confidence ... mcguinty is doing it so there is time to elect a new leader ... what else is he supposed to do? ... continue to lead as a lame duck premier and ultimately get nothing done? ... that makes no sense ...

Isn't it basically the same thing. I mean what would happen if the ontario legislature were to start without the Liberals having a new leader, and a vote of no confidence was called, and the government fell?

Plus there was an interesting article on the front of the Ottawa citizen today about how there are over 100 bills that are before the legislature working there way through right now that are basically going to be cancelled and will have to be reintroduced when the government starts up again. Plus there are a number of committee investigations that are going to halt. It sounds kind of messed up how many issues this could cause.

lukin2006

Kel Varnsen wrote:

dude ... those are two different situations ... harper prorogued the gov't because he was going to have a vote of no-confidence ... mcguinty is doing it so there is time to elect a new leader ... what else is he supposed to do? ... continue to lead as a lame duck premier and ultimately get nothing done? ... that makes no sense ...

Isn't it basically the same thing. I mean what would happen if the ontario legislature were to start without the Liberals having a new leader, and a vote of no confidence was called, and the government fell?

Plus there was an interesting article on the front of the Ottawa citizen today about how there are over 100 bills that are before the legislature working there way through right now that are basically going to be cancelled and will have to be reintroduced when the government starts up again. Plus there are a number of committee investigations that are going to halt. It sounds kind of messed up how many issues this could cause.

It is the same thing...Harper why trying to save his manority government, and basically McGuinty trying to save the liberal minority. I think their is a lot more to these cancelled gas plants than where being told and he's keeping it from us. The one difference when Harper did it is it was just weeks, I'm reading the Ontario legislature will not be sitting for months, so we're paying these politicians to do nothing...not even sit their and yell at each.

Once again I really don't care if its prorogued...politicians are pretty much the useless profession on the planet...

polaris_x

Kel Varnsen wrote:

Isn't it basically the same thing. I mean what would happen if the ontario legislature were to start without the Liberals having a new leader, and a vote of no confidence was called, and the government fell?

Plus there was an interesting article on the front of the Ottawa citizen today about how there are over 100 bills that are before the legislature working there way through right now that are basically going to be cancelled and will have to be reintroduced when the government starts up again. Plus there are a number of committee investigations that are going to halt. It sounds kind of messed up how many issues this could cause.

yeah ... i sort of retracted it or at the very least qualified my initial response ... the prorogation sucks and i have no doubt that a lot of it has to stem from some investigations but there is no way the legislature would have worked once he said he was gonna resign ...

bytterman

Kel Varnsen wrote:

dude ... those are two different situations ... harper prorogued the gov't because he was going to have a vote of no-confidence ... mcguinty is doing it so there is time to elect a new leader ... what else is he supposed to do? ... continue to lead as a lame duck premier and ultimately get nothing done? ... that makes no sense ...

Isn't it basically the same thing. I mean what would happen if the ontario legislature were to start without the Liberals having a new leader, and a vote of no confidence was called, and the government fell?

Plus there was an interesting article on the front of the Ottawa citizen today about how there are over 100 bills that are before the legislature working there way through right now that are basically going to be cancelled and will have to be reintroduced when the government starts up again. Plus there are a number of committee investigations that are going to halt. It sounds kind of messed up how many issues this could cause.

Wasn't the Legislature hung (or about to be) over the public-sector freeze? My reading is that his government was awfully close to falling on that alone, although certainly don't doubt that there are unknown unknowns (sic) at play. Could be a fun few months with both the ON and Federal liberals on the leadership hunt.

polaris_x

harper is destroying this country ... his disdain for democracy is clear as mud and whatever fear mongering there was prior to his majority is far worse than ever expected ...

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/poli ... servatives

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

harper is destroying this country ... his disdain for democracy is clear as mud and whatever fear mongering there was prior to his majority is far worse than ever expected ...

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/poli ... servatives

As soon as this line came up in the article...the article became bogus.

"It streamlines the building of a bridge across the Detroit River by eliminating any environmental restrictions".

The bridge he is referring to has completed all environmental assessments on both sides of the border. Don't let the facts stand in the way of getting your article out. If he didn't fact check this...well.

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

As soon as this line came up in the article...the article became bogus.

"It streamlines the building of a bridge across the Detroit River by eliminating any environmental restrictions".

The bridge he is referring to has completed all environmental assessments on both sides of the border. Don't let the facts stand in the way of getting your article out. If he didn't fact check this...well.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/natio ... ice=mobile

but hey - if you want to dismiss the article on one line (true or not) ... go ahead ... although i assume if this was mcguinty - you'd be all over it ...

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

As soon as this line came up in the article...the article became bogus.

"It streamlines the building of a bridge across the Detroit River by eliminating any environmental restrictions".

The bridge he is referring to has completed all environmental assessments on both sides of the border. Don't let the facts stand in the way of getting your article out. If he didn't fact check this...well.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/natio ... ice=mobile

but hey - if you want to dismiss the article on one line (true or not) ... go ahead ... although i assume if this was mcguinty - you'd be all over it ...

No actually I wouldn't be...once a party gains a majority then they pretty much do as they want, they all do it. Besides I don't care how the bill is packaged...whether its 1 bill or 1000 they have a majority it'll all get through in the end.

Unlike soooo many people I've long come to the conclusion that democracy is dead in this country...unless you consider that vote thingy that sheeple participate in democracy.

As for the article ... if he didn't check his facts on that one point ... then maybe he didn't do his homework on the rest of his column ... as for the environment with new road and bridge all level of governments went above and beyond ... including building a 10 km fence to keep some snake out of the construction zone ...

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

No actually I wouldn't be...once a party gains a majority then they pretty much do as they want, they all do it. Besides I don't care how the bill is packaged...whether its 1 bill or 1000 they have a majority it'll all get through in the end.

Unlike soooo many people I've long come to the conclusion that democracy is dead in this country...unless you consider that vote thingy that sheeple participate in democracy.

As for the article ... if he didn't check his facts on that one point ... then maybe he didn't do his homework on the rest of his column ... as for the environment with new road and bridge all level of governments went above and beyond ... including building a 10 km fence to keep some snake out of the construction zone ...

uhhh ... no ... that is not true ... all previous majorities still went through democratic processes like having committees review all aspects of the budget and to open the floor to debate ... that is why we have opposition mps ...

he DID factcheck ... what he says is true ... i posted the article to show you ... he's not talking about environmental assessments ... the new law basically says you can't challenge the construction of the bridge based on environmental laws and regulation ...

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

No actually I wouldn't be...once a party gains a majority then they pretty much do as they want, they all do it. Besides I don't care how the bill is packaged...whether its 1 bill or 1000 they have a majority it'll all get through in the end.

Unlike soooo many people I've long come to the conclusion that democracy is dead in this country...unless you consider that vote thingy that sheeple participate in democracy.

As for the article ... if he didn't check his facts on that one point ... then maybe he didn't do his homework on the rest of his column ... as for the environment with new road and bridge all level of governments went above and beyond ... including building a 10 km fence to keep some snake out of the construction zone ...

uhhh ... no ... that is not true ... all previous majorities still went through democratic processes like having committees review all aspects of the budget and to open the floor to debate ... that is why we have opposition mps ...

he DID factcheck ... what he says is true ... i posted the article to show you ... he's not talking about environmental assessments ... the new law basically says you can't challenge the construction of the bridge based on environmental laws and regulation ...

how many environmental reviews do they want ... they've completed the environmental assessments ...what more do people want ... like I said he didn't do his homework ... he closed those loopholes so the owner of the Ambassador Bridge does delay the construction of a new much needed bridge ... they are very litigious. Sorry I support that in the bill ... I know how congested the road leading to the Ambassador Bridge is. This I will give McGuinty credit for ... at least his government finally got to work on finishing the 401 to the new bridge. However I suspect it had more to do with Duncan and even more to do with Sandra Pupatello than McGuinty himself. I'll give Harper credit as well ... he has made this bridge a priority.

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

how many environmental reviews do they want ... they've completed the environmental assessments ...what more do people want ... like I said he didn't do his homework ... he closed those loopholes so the owner of the Ambassador Bridge does delay the construction of a new much needed bridge ... they are very litigious. Sorry I support that in the bill ... I know how congested the road leading to the Ambassador Bridge is. This I will give McGuinty credit for ... at least his government finally got to work on finishing the 401 to the new bridge. However I suspect it had more to do with Duncan and even more to do with Sandra Pupatello than McGuinty himself. I'll give Harper credit as well ... he has made this bridge a priority.

how can you continue to say he didn't do his homework????? ... this is mind boggling ... you may agree with the legislation but how can you say what he wrote is NOT TRUE!??