He's going to support Trudeau ... this country is fucking doomed ... not 1 federal leader worth a damn ... in Ontario not 1 provincial leader worth a damn, hell maybe not 1 leader in any provinces worth a damn.
As far as I'm concerned Garneau was quite possibly the type a leader this country could use ... he wasn't a career politician and if eventually elected PM he most certainly would stay for much more that 2 terms and impressive resume ... oh well, exactly why I don't waste time voting. All the liberals are doing is looking for someone who can bring them power ... in Garneau they had someone who could become PM plus an impressive life leading up to him becoming PM.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
ya ... i'm still hoping for joyce murray although she will likely get eaten by the wolves ...
although i agree with your assessment ... the current gov't is sooo far from representing my values and is sooo bad for canada imo that almost anyone from any other party would be better ...
ya ... i'm still hoping for joyce murray although she will likely get eaten by the wolves ...
although i agree with your assessment ... the current gov't is sooo far from representing my values and is sooo bad for canada imo that almost anyone from any other party would be better ...
In Ontario I've been researching the green party ... if I vote I'd probably vote for them ... I really like their policy of eliminating 2 school boards which would save 1.3-1.6 billion a year ... now I'm in the early stages of research but theses are the kind of policies I can agree with ... but unfortunately they are so far away from even winning 1 seat.
As far as the conservatives or liberals ... both are evil ...
Maybe if Garneau had thrown his support behind Murray she might of had a shot.
Personally I think the government has done an effective job over the last 30 or so years of dumbing down the education system so we end up with the kind of leaders we do.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
In Ontario I've been researching the green party ... if I vote I'd probably vote for them ... I really like their policy of eliminating 2 school boards which would save 1.3-1.6 billion a year ... now I'm in the early stages of research but theses are the kind of policies I can agree with ... but unfortunately they are so far away from even winning 1 seat.
As far as the conservatives or liberals ... both are evil ...
Maybe if Garneau had thrown his support behind Murray she might of had a shot.
Personally I think the government has done an effective job over the last 30 or so years of dumbing down the education system so we end up with the kind of leaders we do.
ya ... agree ...
thing with the liberal party was ... they were going in the right direction with dion ... unfortunately, he got roasted and couldn't manage it and they then went back old school with ignatieff ... looks like they could go in the right direction again with garneau or murray but that ultimately they will go with a compromise with trudeau ...
**************
it's stuff like this that really drives me berserk ... this gov't is so nefarious and fascist -it's unbelievable ... time for a liberal/ndp alliance ...
**************
it's stuff like this that really drives me berserk ... this gov't is so nefarious and fascist -it's unbelievable ... time for a liberal/ndp alliance ...
none of the above ...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
From 'Bible Bill' to Stephen Harper, the evolution of faith-based politics
By Ira Basen, special to CBC News Posted: Mar 15, 2013 5:18 AM ET Last Updated: Mar 15, 2013 9:54 AM ET
When Tommy Douglas, a Baptist minister, was the premier of Saskatchewan in the 1940s and '50s, his Co-operative Commonwealth Federation was inspired by the ideals of the "social gospel" movement, which sought to apply Christian ethics to attack social injustice.
Next door in Alberta, another Baptist minister, William "Bible Bill" Aberhart had been premier since 1935 and when he died, in 1943, he was succeeded by Ernest Manning, who had been the first graduate of Aberhart's Prophetic Bible Institute in Calgary.
In Quebec, the Union Nationale Party of Maurice Duplessis was in power from 1944 to 1960, and enjoyed the enthusiastic support of most of the province's Catholic hierarchy.
So tight was the connection between church and party that Duplessis campaigned on the slogan "a vote for the Union Nationale is a vote for your religion and your Catholic faith."
You don't have to dig very deep into Canadian history to find evidence of faith-based politics, at least on the provincial level. In national politics, it's been a different story.
Canada has had nine Catholic prime ministers, but two of the most prominent, Wilfrid Laurier and Pierre Trudeau, both clashed publicly at times with Quebec's Catholic Church leaders.
By the time Tommy Douglas became the first leader of the federal New Democratic Party in 1961, most of the talk about building a "new Jerusalem" had faded well into the background.
Only the conservative Christian fundamentalist tradition, which began with Aberhart and Manning, has been able to plant roots in the soil of federal politics, but it has been a long and convoluted road.
By the 1970s, many conservative Christians were growing increasingly dismayed by the growing secularization of Canadian society, and shifting attitudes about abortion, divorce and homosexuality.
In 1987, the Christian Heritage Party was founded, dedicated to running the country on "biblical principles." It fielded 63 candidates in the 1988 federal election.
That same year, Preston Manning, son of Ernest, founded the Alberta-based Reform Party as a Western protest movement with a strong socially conservative bent. Ten years later, Reform had 60 seats in the House of Commons and had become the official opposition.
Under Manning, Reform was generally able to put its Christian roots on the back-burner.
But that was no longer possible when Reform morphed into the Canadian Alliance Party in 2000 and chose Stockwell Day as its leader. Day refused to campaign on Sundays and once gave a speech that seemed to indicate he supported the biblical notion that humans and dinosaurs co-existed on Earth 6,000 years ago.
Evangelicals were wildly enthusiastic about Stockwell Day as the leader of a national political party, but many Canadians were wary about his perceived fundamentalism, and he was unable to expand the Alliance base outside of Western Canada.
By 2002, the party had turned against him and Day was replaced by Stephen Harper.
Harper, who joined the evangelical Christian and Missionary Alliance Church in the 1980s, had long believed that courting the religious right by emphasizing social issues was bad politics for a party trying to form a national government.
Better to stick to economic issues like taxes, deficits and de-regulation.
But in a speech given to a conservative think-tank in Toronto in April 2003, Harper changed course. He argued that "the defining issues have shifted from economic issues to social values, so conservatives must do the same ...
"On a wide range of public-policy questions, including foreign affairs and defence, criminal justice and corrections, family and child care, and health care and social services, social values are increasingly the really big issues."
The new party needed to reach out to social conservatives of all denominations and faiths, a group he labelled the "theo-cons," and it must be prepared to accept small incremental gains and build coalitions that would ultimately lead to victory.
Three years later, that victory was achieved, and in the seven years since then, that 2003 speech can be seen as a blueprint for solidifying the Conservative hold on religious conservatives of all denominations.
How important are theo-cons in the Conservative coalition?
Well, an Ipsos-Reid exit poll taken on election day 2011 found that across all faiths, the more religious you were, the more likely you were to vote Conservative.
The party picked up 50 per cent of voters who said they attended a church or temple every week; and 42 per cent of those who said they had "some religious identity," compared to 32 per cent for the NDP and 16 per cent for the Liberals. But what about on the policy front?
It is tempting to dismiss the influence of theo-cons because two of their biggest legislative goals — the re-criminalization of abortion and an end to same-sex marriage — appear no closer to being realized today than they did when the Conservatives were first elected.
But in many other areas this group has made significant progress.
One of the Harper government's first acts upon taking office was to cancel the national daycare plan cobbled together by the Liberals and replace it with child tax credits and other "family friendly" measures designed to keep government out of the business of raising children.
A recent study of grants awarded by the Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA), by a political scientist at the University of Quebec, found that money allocated to religious non-profit groups increased 42 per cent between 2005-10, compared to a rise of five per cent for secular NGOs.
As well, for the first time, millions of federal dollars have been funnelled into private Christian colleges and universities through the government's Knowledge Infrastructure Program.
And then there was the recent announcement of the creation of the Office of Religious Freedom, with a $5-million annual budget, charged with "promoting freedom of religion or belief around the world."
This fulfilled a promise made in the 2011 Conservative election platform, although a promise made in the 2008 platform to establish a Democracy Protection Agency to "promote Canada's democratic ideals abroad" has never seen the light of day.
In her exhaustively researched 2010 book, The Armageddon Factor: The Rise of Christian Nationalism in Canada, journalist Marci McDonald traced the growing influence of conservative Christian groups on the Canadian political landscape, and specifically within the upper echelons of Stephen Harper's Ottawa.
Canadians needed to wake up, McDonald argued, "to the realization that slowly, covertly, the political process is being co-opted by an extremist vision of Christianity."
Many critics, however, have accused McDonald of overstating the role played by evangelicals in the Conservative Party, suggesting that she is transposing what is happening with the Christian right in the U.S., and that the Canadian experience is different.
But the past two years of majority government has made it clear that faith-based politics and policies are clearly a factor in today's Ottawa, much more so than in the past.
"Serious conservative parties simply cannot shy away from values questions," Stephen Harper told the audience in his 2003 speech in Toronto. And he clearly hasn't.
The liberal leadership pantomime continues this week. It is one of the most curious political phenomenon of our time, a contest without friction, a competition without a real choice. This is the emptiest trial for what used to be the most prized position in Canadian party politics that we have ever seen. Mr. Trudeau is, in percentage terms, 10 times ahead of his nearest “rival,” polling among Liberals with 75% of the likely vote for leader. Joyce Murray, in second place for that same post, polls at 7.5%.
What meager drama it may claim is either odd or pointless. For example, there was a minor flare when the Trudeau team requested to delay the deciding vote while they re-attempted (we must assume they already tried) to convince the multitudes of his Twitter-horde into actually signing up to vote. His request was quickly granted. And that was it for the excitement, the suspense of the unknown.
At this stage of the “race,” there is no way, minus a rewind of the Big Bang or Mr. Trudeau filming himself chain sawing a redwood to fall on Elizabeth May’s house, for him to lose. He is the Liberal party’s only story and he knows it. The party knows it too.
What elements of actual testing are there in this leadership contest (and I use that word as loosely as is possible)? Where’s the contest in this contest, the political manoeuvring? Where’s the suspense? We’ve had the hair restyling story, the only other thing that might have upset the applecart, so the makeover angle is exhausted. So the only question left is this hollow one: whether Justin Trudeau can get more online votes with an extra week tacked on to the charade than he would get without that week.
In other words, the Liberal leadership has been reduced to Mr. Trudeau, effectively, running against his own Twitter account, a novelty of limited fascination to even the most obsessed. He is not asking for this stall in the vote to rescue his campaign, because of some crisis, or to escape some deadly collapse in his lead. He asked for a week’s extension so that he can win by an even greater number than he would win otherwise. He is running up the score against himself, for no other reason than that he can.
Mark this. It is unique. Neither memory nor experience can supply me with a parallel where a leader with an insurmountable lead has asked for a delay in the vote to increase that lead.
There was a second event. Marc Garneau, and the only real contender against Mr. Trudeau (even though he was always a long shot) announced he was out. He, good man of science that he is, bowed down to arithmetic — Mr. Trudeau’s lead was too high for even an astronaut to contemplate.
He was also the only candidate with the courage to question Mr. Trudeau on the highly relevant grounds of substance and experience. During those eerily dull debates Mr. Garneau put the real question of the contest — however awkward for Liberals — on the table. He stated that, “the leadership of the Liberal party is too important a position to be handed to an untested candidate who is hiding behind a carefully crafted public-relations campaign.”
That was the only real public utterance of Mr. Trudeau’s real vulnerability.
However, as soon as the math spoke, and he decided to bow out, Mr. Garneau — now here’s a turnaround — endorsed with warmth and eagerness the man at the head of the “great public-relations campaign” and the “untested candidate.”
So where is it all heading? What’s left of the race? Well, we still have to wait to see how greatly the Mr. Trudeau Twitter feed matches his actual vote. Nail-biter one, as it were. And I suppose we might get another couple of those who paid $75,000 to enter this strange parade stepping down before the humiliating vote takes place. Nail-biter two.
Otherwise really all we’re watching is Justin against Justin, a drama of minimal absorption save to its star.
This is kind of ridiculous ... they are handing him the leadership of the party with no contest. I admit I haven't exactly paid as much attention as I could have but I know where Marc Garneau and Joyce Murray stand. This country is doomed ... I don't think we have 1 real leader anywhere :oops: :oops: :oops:.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
This is kind of ridiculous ... they are handing him the leadership of the party with no contest. I admit I haven't exactly paid as much attention as I could have but I know where Marc Garneau and Joyce Murray stand. This country is doomed ... I don't think we have 1 real leader anywhere :oops: :oops: :oops:.
garneau agreed with the extension ... they were having technical difficulties making it hard for everyone to register ... i don't think that was unreasonable ...
This is kind of ridiculous ... they are handing him the leadership of the party with no contest. I admit I haven't exactly paid as much attention as I could have but I know where Marc Garneau and Joyce Murray stand. This country is doomed ... I don't think we have 1 real leader anywhere :oops: :oops: :oops:.
garneau agreed with the extension ... they were having technical difficulties making it hard for everyone to register ... i don't think that was unreasonable ...
I know Garneau did ... but he turned out to be disappointing in the end. At least for now the other candidates are going to ride it out ... this country still lacks leadership ... no wonder voter turnout is at an all time low.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I know Garneau did ... but he turned out to be disappointing in the end. At least for now the other candidates are going to ride it out ... this country still lacks leadership ... no wonder voter turnout is at an all time low.
garneau did an informal poll and found trudeauu had like 78% of the vote ... these campaigns are a lot of money and there are still candidates from previous bids who have not paid off their debt ... you can't blame the guy ...
at the end of the day tho - it is up to the people to decide ... if WE truly cared (and i do include myself) - we'd register and support the people we want ... sitting here and griping about it - isn't gonna change anything ...
This is kind of ridiculous ... they are handing him the leadership of the party with no contest. I admit I haven't exactly paid as much attention as I could have but I know where Marc Garneau and Joyce Murray stand. This country is doomed ... I don't think we have 1 real leader anywhere :oops: :oops: :oops:.
garneau agreed with the extension ... they were having technical difficulties making it hard for everyone to register ... i don't think that was unreasonable ...
i just read that the other contenders weren't in favour of the extension and thought it favoured trudeau ... so, maybe not just about the glitches ...
This is kind of ridiculous ... they are handing him the leadership of the party with no contest. I admit I haven't exactly paid as much attention as I could have but I know where Marc Garneau and Joyce Murray stand. This country is doomed ... I don't think we have 1 real leader anywhere :oops: :oops: :oops:.
garneau agreed with the extension ... they were having technical difficulties making it hard for everyone to register ... i don't think that was unreasonable ...
i just read that the other contenders weren't in favour of the extension and thought it favoured trudeau ... so, maybe not just about the glitches ...
People had long enough to register if they wanted to. I really don't think democracy is best served when the leadership of the party is just going to be handed to him.
But at the end of the day it doesn't really matter ... if there are any true leaders out there among us they are not involved with politics currently and those that have the potential and the intention of being different get sucked into the party and eventually become like the rest of them.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
People had long enough to register if they wanted to. I really don't think democracy is best served when the leadership of the party is just going to be handed to him.
But at the end of the day it doesn't really matter ... if there are any true leaders out there among us they are not involved with politics currently and those that have the potential and the intention of being different get sucked into the party and eventually become like the rest of them.
i know you're even more jaded than i am ... ... but i honestly feel that it's not as bad as it has been ...
our prospective leaders are trying to please a multitude of interests ... all i really ask is that they govern with honesty, integrity, transparency and for the people ... not corporate interests ...
on that front ... i look at mulclair, murray and trudeau and there is no significant baggage as of yet ... that is incredible if we were to compare to our neighbours south where every candidate for the GOP nomination had tons of baggage and you knew was just going to do what the corporate shills want ...
it's not great but it's not that bad either ... obviously, if the conservatives stay in power ... different story ...
In Ontario I've been researching the green party ... if I vote I'd probably vote for them ... I really like their policy of eliminating 2 school boards which would save 1.3-1.6 billion a year ... now I'm in the early stages of research but theses are the kind of policies I can agree with ... but unfortunately they are so far away from even winning 1 seat.
If I remember last election they were also the only party that was looking at real ways to reform beer laws in Ontario (which are really bad) to support smaller producers and make it easier for them to get their products out there. That was part of the reason why I voted for them. The ontario conservatives are just calling for a sell beer in corner stores deal/get rid of the lcbo type thing which I think will just lead to the same old system but in a different location.
In Ontario I've been researching the green party ... if I vote I'd probably vote for them ... I really like their policy of eliminating 2 school boards which would save 1.3-1.6 billion a year ... now I'm in the early stages of research but theses are the kind of policies I can agree with ... but unfortunately they are so far away from even winning 1 seat.
If I remember last election they were also the only party that was looking at real ways to reform beer laws in Ontario (which are really bad) to support smaller producers and make it easier for them to get their products out there. That was part of the reason why I voted for them. The ontario conservatives are just calling for a sell beer in corner stores deal/get rid of the lcbo type thing which I think will just lead to the same old system but in a different location.
The craft beer makers do need help ... the beer store is owned by the big 3 beer companies ... they only interested in helping themselves. As for Hudak he won't do nothing ...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
The craft beer makers do need help ... the beer store is owned by the big 3 beer companies ... they only interested in helping themselves. As for Hudak he won't do nothing ...
The way the system is set up, with Inbev (owner of Labatt), Sapporo Breweries (owner of Sleeman) and Molson-Coors owning the beer store and having a near monopoly on beer sales is all kinds of messed up.I mean not only does it give them the ability to push their own products at the detriment to their smaller competitors but it also means that if the competitors do start making sales, the beer store owners can easily collect and keep track of all that sales data (since they are the ones making the sales).
And the way they have it set up now it is totally made so that you spend as little time in The Beer Store as possible. It is not a nice/welcoming retail environment. This of course means that they want people to have their mind made up before they get there and not browse. That of course benefits the companies that can spend the most money on marketing and pay for big ad campaigns (ie the owners of the beer store).
The craft beer makers do need help ... the beer store is owned by the big 3 beer companies ... they only interested in helping themselves. As for Hudak he won't do nothing ...
The way the system is set up, with Inbev (owner of Labatt), Sapporo Breweries (owner of Sleeman) and Molson-Coors owning the beer store and having a near monopoly on beer sales is all kinds of messed up.I mean not only does it give them the ability to push their own products at the detriment to their smaller competitors but it also means that if the competitors do start making sales, the beer store owners can easily collect and keep track of all that sales data (since they are the ones making the sales).
And the way they have it set up now it is totally made so that you spend as little time in The Beer Store as possible. It is not a nice/welcoming retail environment. This of course means that they want people to have their mind made up before they get there and not browse. That of course benefits the companies that can spend the most money on marketing and pay for big ad campaigns (ie the owners of the beer store).
Agree with everything you said ... I usually only visit the beer store to return my empty's ... I get my beer at the lcbo ... I can at least browse and look forward to August when they have their beers of the world. Eventually the beer store monopoly will end ... Just don't see any of he current provincial leaders doing it, might even take a lawsuit or a charter challenge to change it. I wonder if that's why more people are drinking wine ... A lot of places to buy wine.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Justin Trudeau wins 78% of the leadership vote - the new leader of the Liberal party. I know some may not think it's a good thing, but I would disagree. I think it's the best direction this flagging party could possibly go in (I think he's nervous or having an internal spaz during his acceptance speech though... he's got a funny tone to his voice - sounds like a soliloquy rather than a speech ). This is a huge deal IMO, and I personally believe that Trudeau is ready for the role of battling that bastard Harper (of course, when talking political leaders, everything is in relative terms!). Now to see where the NDP stands after this.... oh man, am I missing Jack Layton right now. :( I am looking forward to this! *rubbing hands together in anticipation*
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
After the next election we'll either have a conservative or liberal government ... basically the same old ... we need political change which will never happen.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
You beat me to it ... but sadly the conservative supporters will buy into this garbage.
Many will ... but don't underestimate Canadian voters too much. Many do tend to know bullshit when they see it. I don't think this tactic will work well for the Harper government in the long run. They need to be careful if they don't want to come off as scared assholes.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I'd like to know why people in this country are so scared of change ... my guess is that after the next election the conservatives and liberals will get support in the 60-70 % range. Yet they've been running this country forever and from what I can see, some of the major issues (like...healthcare, seniors, OAS, education, lack of good decent paying jobs, unemployment insurance, etc.) people should be concerned about are slowly being eroded.
It will only get worse unless their is change.
We're regressing as a country ... thats not good.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Sure Canadians will fall for it. They've voted Harper in 3 times and he's used the same tactics.
They'll also fall for it because look at how many have fallen for Trudeau even though he was light on policy, and it appeared Garneau or Murray were far better candidates.
To me the combined governments of Canada have spent the better part of the last 30 years or so dumbing people down through the education system so they won't realize how badly they are getting screwed they are.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Sure Canadians will fall for it. They've voted Harper in 3 times and he's used the same tactics.
They'll also fall for it because look at how many have fallen for Trudeau even though he was light on policy, and it appeared Garneau or Murray were far better candidates.
To me the combined governments of Canada have spent the better part of the last 30 years or so dumbing people down through the education system so they won't realize how badly they are getting screwed they are.
People kept voting him in because they are comfortable, and yes, are scared of change for the worse. With Harper, those people have not suffered or been very uncomfortable (not thanks to Harper, but thanks to Canada's unique abilities to withstand the global economic crisis relatively unscathed). I don't think it had anything to do with his campaigning tactics personally.
I actually think that Trudeau has been pretty clear about what his policies would be... Sounds like you are falling for the Conservative line too maybe; that's their tactic - to make it seem like he's light on policy. I do not believe this is has actually been the case.
Anyway, the Liberal party is not likely to have a sudden meteoric rise in 2 years (although anything's possible - politics can turn on a dime; god knows what might happen in 2 years). But I think that the election after than will likely be where the Liberals can make a real come back under Trudeau. Especially since by then Harper is going to be old and will be very, very unappealing to younger voters (not that he isn't already to some extent).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03/13 ... ship-race/
He's going to support Trudeau ... this country is fucking doomed ... not 1 federal leader worth a damn ... in Ontario not 1 provincial leader worth a damn, hell maybe not 1 leader in any provinces worth a damn.
As far as I'm concerned Garneau was quite possibly the type a leader this country could use ... he wasn't a career politician and if eventually elected PM he most certainly would stay for much more that 2 terms and impressive resume ... oh well, exactly why I don't waste time voting. All the liberals are doing is looking for someone who can bring them power ... in Garneau they had someone who could become PM plus an impressive life leading up to him becoming PM.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
although i agree with your assessment ... the current gov't is sooo far from representing my values and is sooo bad for canada imo that almost anyone from any other party would be better ...
In Ontario I've been researching the green party ... if I vote I'd probably vote for them ... I really like their policy of eliminating 2 school boards which would save 1.3-1.6 billion a year ... now I'm in the early stages of research but theses are the kind of policies I can agree with ... but unfortunately they are so far away from even winning 1 seat.
As far as the conservatives or liberals ... both are evil ...
Maybe if Garneau had thrown his support behind Murray she might of had a shot.
Personally I think the government has done an effective job over the last 30 or so years of dumbing down the education system so we end up with the kind of leaders we do.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
ya ... agree ...
thing with the liberal party was ... they were going in the right direction with dion ... unfortunately, he got roasted and couldn't manage it and they then went back old school with ignatieff ... looks like they could go in the right direction again with garneau or murray but that ultimately they will go with a compromise with trudeau ...
**************
it's stuff like this that really drives me berserk ... this gov't is so nefarious and fascist -it's unbelievable ... time for a liberal/ndp alliance ...
none of the above ...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
From 'Bible Bill' to Stephen Harper, the evolution of faith-based politics
By Ira Basen, special to CBC News Posted: Mar 15, 2013 5:18 AM ET Last Updated: Mar 15, 2013 9:54 AM ET
When Tommy Douglas, a Baptist minister, was the premier of Saskatchewan in the 1940s and '50s, his Co-operative Commonwealth Federation was inspired by the ideals of the "social gospel" movement, which sought to apply Christian ethics to attack social injustice.
Next door in Alberta, another Baptist minister, William "Bible Bill" Aberhart had been premier since 1935 and when he died, in 1943, he was succeeded by Ernest Manning, who had been the first graduate of Aberhart's Prophetic Bible Institute in Calgary.
In Quebec, the Union Nationale Party of Maurice Duplessis was in power from 1944 to 1960, and enjoyed the enthusiastic support of most of the province's Catholic hierarchy.
So tight was the connection between church and party that Duplessis campaigned on the slogan "a vote for the Union Nationale is a vote for your religion and your Catholic faith."
You don't have to dig very deep into Canadian history to find evidence of faith-based politics, at least on the provincial level. In national politics, it's been a different story.
Canada has had nine Catholic prime ministers, but two of the most prominent, Wilfrid Laurier and Pierre Trudeau, both clashed publicly at times with Quebec's Catholic Church leaders.
By the time Tommy Douglas became the first leader of the federal New Democratic Party in 1961, most of the talk about building a "new Jerusalem" had faded well into the background.
Only the conservative Christian fundamentalist tradition, which began with Aberhart and Manning, has been able to plant roots in the soil of federal politics, but it has been a long and convoluted road.
By the 1970s, many conservative Christians were growing increasingly dismayed by the growing secularization of Canadian society, and shifting attitudes about abortion, divorce and homosexuality.
In 1987, the Christian Heritage Party was founded, dedicated to running the country on "biblical principles." It fielded 63 candidates in the 1988 federal election.
That same year, Preston Manning, son of Ernest, founded the Alberta-based Reform Party as a Western protest movement with a strong socially conservative bent. Ten years later, Reform had 60 seats in the House of Commons and had become the official opposition.
Under Manning, Reform was generally able to put its Christian roots on the back-burner.
But that was no longer possible when Reform morphed into the Canadian Alliance Party in 2000 and chose Stockwell Day as its leader. Day refused to campaign on Sundays and once gave a speech that seemed to indicate he supported the biblical notion that humans and dinosaurs co-existed on Earth 6,000 years ago.
Evangelicals were wildly enthusiastic about Stockwell Day as the leader of a national political party, but many Canadians were wary about his perceived fundamentalism, and he was unable to expand the Alliance base outside of Western Canada.
By 2002, the party had turned against him and Day was replaced by Stephen Harper.
Harper, who joined the evangelical Christian and Missionary Alliance Church in the 1980s, had long believed that courting the religious right by emphasizing social issues was bad politics for a party trying to form a national government.
Better to stick to economic issues like taxes, deficits and de-regulation.
But in a speech given to a conservative think-tank in Toronto in April 2003, Harper changed course. He argued that "the defining issues have shifted from economic issues to social values, so conservatives must do the same ...
"On a wide range of public-policy questions, including foreign affairs and defence, criminal justice and corrections, family and child care, and health care and social services, social values are increasingly the really big issues."
The new party needed to reach out to social conservatives of all denominations and faiths, a group he labelled the "theo-cons," and it must be prepared to accept small incremental gains and build coalitions that would ultimately lead to victory.
Three years later, that victory was achieved, and in the seven years since then, that 2003 speech can be seen as a blueprint for solidifying the Conservative hold on religious conservatives of all denominations.
How important are theo-cons in the Conservative coalition?
Well, an Ipsos-Reid exit poll taken on election day 2011 found that across all faiths, the more religious you were, the more likely you were to vote Conservative.
The party picked up 50 per cent of voters who said they attended a church or temple every week; and 42 per cent of those who said they had "some religious identity," compared to 32 per cent for the NDP and 16 per cent for the Liberals. But what about on the policy front?
It is tempting to dismiss the influence of theo-cons because two of their biggest legislative goals — the re-criminalization of abortion and an end to same-sex marriage — appear no closer to being realized today than they did when the Conservatives were first elected.
But in many other areas this group has made significant progress.
One of the Harper government's first acts upon taking office was to cancel the national daycare plan cobbled together by the Liberals and replace it with child tax credits and other "family friendly" measures designed to keep government out of the business of raising children.
A recent study of grants awarded by the Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA), by a political scientist at the University of Quebec, found that money allocated to religious non-profit groups increased 42 per cent between 2005-10, compared to a rise of five per cent for secular NGOs.
As well, for the first time, millions of federal dollars have been funnelled into private Christian colleges and universities through the government's Knowledge Infrastructure Program.
And then there was the recent announcement of the creation of the Office of Religious Freedom, with a $5-million annual budget, charged with "promoting freedom of religion or belief around the world."
This fulfilled a promise made in the 2011 Conservative election platform, although a promise made in the 2008 platform to establish a Democracy Protection Agency to "promote Canada's democratic ideals abroad" has never seen the light of day.
In her exhaustively researched 2010 book, The Armageddon Factor: The Rise of Christian Nationalism in Canada, journalist Marci McDonald traced the growing influence of conservative Christian groups on the Canadian political landscape, and specifically within the upper echelons of Stephen Harper's Ottawa.
Canadians needed to wake up, McDonald argued, "to the realization that slowly, covertly, the political process is being co-opted by an extremist vision of Christianity."
Many critics, however, have accused McDonald of overstating the role played by evangelicals in the Conservative Party, suggesting that she is transposing what is happening with the Christian right in the U.S., and that the Canadian experience is different.
But the past two years of majority government has made it clear that faith-based politics and policies are clearly a factor in today's Ottawa, much more so than in the past.
"Serious conservative parties simply cannot shy away from values questions," Stephen Harper told the audience in his 2003 speech in Toronto. And he clearly hasn't.
Rex Murphy: Justin vs. Justin
The liberal leadership pantomime continues this week. It is one of the most curious political phenomenon of our time, a contest without friction, a competition without a real choice. This is the emptiest trial for what used to be the most prized position in Canadian party politics that we have ever seen. Mr. Trudeau is, in percentage terms, 10 times ahead of his nearest “rival,” polling among Liberals with 75% of the likely vote for leader. Joyce Murray, in second place for that same post, polls at 7.5%.
What meager drama it may claim is either odd or pointless. For example, there was a minor flare when the Trudeau team requested to delay the deciding vote while they re-attempted (we must assume they already tried) to convince the multitudes of his Twitter-horde into actually signing up to vote. His request was quickly granted. And that was it for the excitement, the suspense of the unknown.
At this stage of the “race,” there is no way, minus a rewind of the Big Bang or Mr. Trudeau filming himself chain sawing a redwood to fall on Elizabeth May’s house, for him to lose. He is the Liberal party’s only story and he knows it. The party knows it too.
What elements of actual testing are there in this leadership contest (and I use that word as loosely as is possible)? Where’s the contest in this contest, the political manoeuvring? Where’s the suspense? We’ve had the hair restyling story, the only other thing that might have upset the applecart, so the makeover angle is exhausted. So the only question left is this hollow one: whether Justin Trudeau can get more online votes with an extra week tacked on to the charade than he would get without that week.
In other words, the Liberal leadership has been reduced to Mr. Trudeau, effectively, running against his own Twitter account, a novelty of limited fascination to even the most obsessed. He is not asking for this stall in the vote to rescue his campaign, because of some crisis, or to escape some deadly collapse in his lead. He asked for a week’s extension so that he can win by an even greater number than he would win otherwise. He is running up the score against himself, for no other reason than that he can.
Mark this. It is unique. Neither memory nor experience can supply me with a parallel where a leader with an insurmountable lead has asked for a delay in the vote to increase that lead.
There was a second event. Marc Garneau, and the only real contender against Mr. Trudeau (even though he was always a long shot) announced he was out. He, good man of science that he is, bowed down to arithmetic — Mr. Trudeau’s lead was too high for even an astronaut to contemplate.
He was also the only candidate with the courage to question Mr. Trudeau on the highly relevant grounds of substance and experience. During those eerily dull debates Mr. Garneau put the real question of the contest — however awkward for Liberals — on the table. He stated that, “the leadership of the Liberal party is too important a position to be handed to an untested candidate who is hiding behind a carefully crafted public-relations campaign.”
That was the only real public utterance of Mr. Trudeau’s real vulnerability.
However, as soon as the math spoke, and he decided to bow out, Mr. Garneau — now here’s a turnaround — endorsed with warmth and eagerness the man at the head of the “great public-relations campaign” and the “untested candidate.”
So where is it all heading? What’s left of the race? Well, we still have to wait to see how greatly the Mr. Trudeau Twitter feed matches his actual vote. Nail-biter one, as it were. And I suppose we might get another couple of those who paid $75,000 to enter this strange parade stepping down before the humiliating vote takes place. Nail-biter two.
Otherwise really all we’re watching is Justin against Justin, a drama of minimal absorption save to its star.
This is kind of ridiculous ... they are handing him the leadership of the party with no contest. I admit I haven't exactly paid as much attention as I could have but I know where Marc Garneau and Joyce Murray stand. This country is doomed ... I don't think we have 1 real leader anywhere :oops: :oops: :oops:.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
garneau agreed with the extension ... they were having technical difficulties making it hard for everyone to register ... i don't think that was unreasonable ...
I know Garneau did ... but he turned out to be disappointing in the end. At least for now the other candidates are going to ride it out ... this country still lacks leadership ... no wonder voter turnout is at an all time low.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
garneau did an informal poll and found trudeauu had like 78% of the vote ... these campaigns are a lot of money and there are still candidates from previous bids who have not paid off their debt ... you can't blame the guy ...
at the end of the day tho - it is up to the people to decide ... if WE truly cared (and i do include myself) - we'd register and support the people we want ... sitting here and griping about it - isn't gonna change anything ...
i just read that the other contenders weren't in favour of the extension and thought it favoured trudeau ... so, maybe not just about the glitches ...
People had long enough to register if they wanted to. I really don't think democracy is best served when the leadership of the party is just going to be handed to him.
But at the end of the day it doesn't really matter ... if there are any true leaders out there among us they are not involved with politics currently and those that have the potential and the intention of being different get sucked into the party and eventually become like the rest of them.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
i know you're even more jaded than i am ...
our prospective leaders are trying to please a multitude of interests ... all i really ask is that they govern with honesty, integrity, transparency and for the people ... not corporate interests ...
on that front ... i look at mulclair, murray and trudeau and there is no significant baggage as of yet ... that is incredible if we were to compare to our neighbours south where every candidate for the GOP nomination had tons of baggage and you knew was just going to do what the corporate shills want ...
it's not great but it's not that bad either ... obviously, if the conservatives stay in power ... different story ...
If I remember last election they were also the only party that was looking at real ways to reform beer laws in Ontario (which are really bad) to support smaller producers and make it easier for them to get their products out there. That was part of the reason why I voted for them. The ontario conservatives are just calling for a sell beer in corner stores deal/get rid of the lcbo type thing which I think will just lead to the same old system but in a different location.
The craft beer makers do need help ... the beer store is owned by the big 3 beer companies ... they only interested in helping themselves. As for Hudak he won't do nothing ...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
And the way they have it set up now it is totally made so that you spend as little time in The Beer Store as possible. It is not a nice/welcoming retail environment. This of course means that they want people to have their mind made up before they get there and not browse. That of course benefits the companies that can spend the most money on marketing and pay for big ad campaigns (ie the owners of the beer store).
Agree with everything you said ... I usually only visit the beer store to return my empty's ... I get my beer at the lcbo ... I can at least browse and look forward to August when they have their beers of the world. Eventually the beer store monopoly will end ... Just don't see any of he current provincial leaders doing it, might even take a lawsuit or a charter challenge to change it. I wonder if that's why more people are drinking wine ... A lot of places to buy wine.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... ormos.html
Ralph Klein: ‘He was a party crasher’
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commenta ... e10600120/
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-p ... 07342.html
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
we're fucked ... :evil:
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
and it's begun ... http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-p ... 47262.html
You beat me to it ... but sadly the conservative supporters will buy into this garbage.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
It will only get worse unless their is change.
We're regressing as a country ... thats not good.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
They'll also fall for it because look at how many have fallen for Trudeau even though he was light on policy, and it appeared Garneau or Murray were far better candidates.
To me the combined governments of Canada have spent the better part of the last 30 years or so dumbing people down through the education system so they won't realize how badly they are getting screwed they are.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I actually think that Trudeau has been pretty clear about what his policies would be... Sounds like you are falling for the Conservative line too maybe; that's their tactic - to make it seem like he's light on policy. I do not believe this is has actually been the case.
Anyway, the Liberal party is not likely to have a sudden meteoric rise in 2 years (although anything's possible - politics can turn on a dime; god knows what might happen in 2 years). But I think that the election after than will likely be where the Liberals can make a real come back under Trudeau. Especially since by then Harper is going to be old and will be very, very unappealing to younger voters (not that he isn't already to some extent).