Canadian Politics

lukin2006

Good article...

I agree that there is no point debating the Rae years, just as I have no interest in debating the Harris years.

My point is about all deficit running governments...running deficits should be illegal.

The problem with these deficits is that they are usually created when times are tough and never eliminated when times are good...and generations from now will be paying for it.

In Ontario I suspect lean times ahead again.

bytterman

polaris_x wrote:

rae not seeking liberal leadership ... i think this is in the best interests of the party ... conservatives will hammer his record in ontario and voters aren't going to be able to filter the warranted criticism to the just outrageous ...

Thoughts on likely candidates? Seems too soon for Trudeau, and that name won't help much west of ON.

polaris_x

bytterman wrote:

Thoughts on likely candidates? Seems too soon for Trudeau, and that name won't help much west of ON.

trudeau is definitely the name most talked about now but it just won't work now for him ... it's not so much his age as it is his political seasoning ... he has demonstrated that he just isn't ready for the limelight yet and to lead ... he will need to bide his time ...

the reality is that the best case scenario is for rae to be interim leader through to the 2019 election because he is the most able person to oppose the conservatives ... the real political landscape is that the NDP are the only ones who can unseat harper in 2015 ...

the liberals need to rebuild again ... and i think out of their current crop of candidates like gerard kennedy or martha hall findlay ... they just aren't going to be able to do this heavy lifting ... if i had to guess - it will be an outsider again who comes in ... someone from the business community or something ...

whoever it is - you can be sure of one thing ... a nice smear campaign from the conservatives ...

lukin2006

That's what the conservatives would like for Rae to stick around. The Liberals need a leader soon. But really doesn't matter they are all crooked as can be. We've had all three parties in Ontario over the last 22 years and they were all fuck ups.

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

That's what the conservatives would like for Rae to stick around. The Liberals need a leader soon. But really doesn't matter they are all crooked as can be. We've had all three parties in Ontario over the last 22 years and they were all fuck ups.

i would say the difference is tho the ndp didn't sell the people out ... again, without discussing the legitimacy of their legacy ... it is clear that the cons and libs have sold us out to their interests although i would say the cons were the worst ... and proof is further provided in their federal mandate with harper ...

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

That's what the conservatives would like for Rae to stick around. The Liberals need a leader soon. But really doesn't matter they are all crooked as can be. We've had all three parties in Ontario over the last 22 years and they were all fuck ups.

i would say the difference is tho the ndp didn't sell the people out ... again, without discussing the legitimacy of their legacy ... it is clear that the cons and libs have sold us out to their interests although i would say the cons were the worst ... and proof is further provided in their federal mandate with harper ...

Really...didn't sell the people out...I think school board workers have a different view of that...a little something called the social contract.

Rae ran up huge deficits and tried to reign it in on the backs of government workers, now the same shit is happening again with McGuinty...McGuinty and Rae are absolutely ridiculous.

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

Really...didn't sell the people out...I think school board workers have a different view of that...a little something called the social contract.

Rae ran up huge deficits and tried to reign it in on the backs of government workers, now the same shit is happening again with McGuinty...McGuinty and Rae are absolutely ridiculous.

so ... he creates an austerity program when times are tough (like they are now) and you compare that to when harris took over (in an economic boom) and then delivered us an even bigger deficit than when rae left office!??

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Really...didn't sell the people out...I think school board workers have a different view of that...a little something called the social contract.

Rae ran up huge deficits and tried to reign it in on the backs of government workers, now the same shit is happening again with McGuinty...McGuinty and Rae are absolutely ridiculous.

so ... he creates an austerity program when times are tough (like they are now) and you compare that to when harris took over (in an economic boom) and then delivered us an even bigger deficit than when rae left office!??

Harris never left the deficit...Earnie Eaves did...and I've already stated we've had all 3 parties and have no use for any of them. Under Harris we were free to negotiate with our employer...it was up to the unions to try to make it work. He never froze our wages, never introduced legislation to open contracts.

Rae brought in the social contract and McGuinty has threatened legislation to take away gains in our contract...It goes beyond simple wage freezes with Rae and McGuinty.

The McGuinty government are the biggest weasels to ever govern Ontario....2 of the largest tax increases ever, record setting revenue and still running record deficits.

Not to mention bungled e health, ornge air etc.

bytterman

lukin2006 wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Really...didn't sell the people out...I think school board workers have a different view of that...a little something called the social contract.

Rae ran up huge deficits and tried to reign it in on the backs of government workers, now the same shit is happening again with McGuinty...McGuinty and Rae are absolutely ridiculous.

so ... he creates an austerity program when times are tough (like they are now) and you compare that to when harris took over (in an economic boom) and then delivered us an even bigger deficit than when rae left office!??

Harris never left the deficit...Earnie Eaves did...and I've already stated we've had all 3 parties and have no use for any of them. Under Harris we were free to negotiate with our employer...it was up to the unions to try to make it work. He never froze our wages, never introduced legislation to open contracts.

Rae brought in the social contract and McGuinty has threatened legislation to take away gains in our contract...It goes beyond simple wage freezes with Rae and McGuinty.

The McGuinty government are the biggest weasels to ever govern Ontario....2 of the largest tax increases ever, record setting revenue and still running record deficits.

Not to mention bungled e health, ornge air etc.

like the song sorta says...clowns to the left of us, clowns to the right...

polaris_x

sorry ... a guy who makes policies (good or bad) in the interests of the people is not the same as someone who makes policies to help his friends ... not even close ...

and really!? ... eaves left a deficit? ... eaves was the finance minister for harris who was that much of an ahole that he left knowing what the writing on the wall was gonna be ... :evil:

lukin2006

Well I'm not going to rehash the Rae years or the Harris years...as far as I'm concerned those 2 combined with current have lead to Ontario's decline.

And I'm pretty sure the politician that ever did anything for the people was Tommy Douglas...but I'm pretty sure he'd be disgusted with the shape of our healthcare system today.

Maybe we're going to get that rare summer vote...if the NDP continue to have the backbone...my guess is the public sector, teachers, school board employees have gotten into the NDP heads, however the NDP will gain the support of many teachers and school board employees if an election is called.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/14 ... ng-budget/

polaris_x

it's all fucked ... an election is the worst case scenario for ontario now ... absolutely nothing positive can come of it ... mcguinty is just going to lose seats ... he's not getting his majority back and for good reason ...

horwarth is not ready and hudak is cut from the same "what can i do for my buddies" cloth as harper/harris/eaves

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

it's all fucked ... an election is the worst case scenario for ontario now ... absolutely nothing positive can come of it ... mcguinty is just going to lose seats ... he's not getting his majority back and for good reason ...

horwarth is not ready and hudak is cut from the same "what can i do for my buddies" cloth as harper/harris/eaves

Well the two previous leaders Rae and Harris essentially lost power because they pissed off the teachers...and that's exactly what McGuinty is doing...I know I am part of the support staff in a school board...teachers are pissed, support staff are pissed and the public sector in general are pissed.

The teacher unions are extremely powerful well organized lot. My guess is if he doesn't back off his concessions demands he will be gone. My sister is a teacher and a lot of the teachers have been emailing NDP MP'S...so my guess is that the NDP probably see's this as an opportunity to gain back teacher support.

The question remains...will the NDP continue to have back bone? if he calls an election will he drop his concession demands from school board workers in order to gain their support?

I believe even the Drummond report had said part of the problem with government was that when you freeze their wages you usually had to make it up down the road. He was calling for a shrinking of the government. In my opinion that's the problem the problem to many now working for the government.

This all day kindergarten is costing 1.5 billion...this is not an austerity budget when you created a program we can't afford then expect school board employees to take concessions so you can hire 20000 more people (possibly liberal voters)...he needs to go.

Not to rehash Rae...the one area that made the social contract much different than what McGuinty is trying to do, is the social contract did no effect those making under 40 000 except pay freeze, but they did not have to take Rae days and he never asked for concessions.

Mcguinty is going farther than Rae or Harris.

polaris_x

i understand teachers are a powerful group ... but they aren't that powerful ...

all i know is an election is not going to do anyone any good ... worst case scenario is we have hudak in power .. we're already fucked - it would just make it that much worse ...

lukin2006

Don't under estimate the power of the teachers to impact the provincial politics in the very near future...There are probably over a 100000 teachers in Ontario and I'll bet they are the most politically organized group in the province and they vote...we always talk on here that not enough people are in tune to the political process...well they are more than in tune. If Hudak guaranteed no wage freeze or concessions for teachers then he'd probably get a majority, and I still would not rule out McGuinty or him guaranteeing that.

Idris

UN calls Quebec's Bill 78 alarming

The United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights is criticizing Quebec's Bill 78, a new law that imposes strict limits on student protests.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/un-calls-quebecs-bill-78-alarming-122732953.html

lukin2006

Idris wrote:

UN calls Quebec's Bill 78 alarming

The United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights is criticizing Quebec's Bill 78, a new law that imposes strict limits on student protests.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/un-calls-quebecs-bill-78-alarming-122732953.html

Is there really a more corrupt organization in the world than the UN? Like I give a fuck what they got to say about Canada! Like the article says the law can be challenged in court.

Why do we even belong to this organization? Why would we even listen to them?

lukin2006

I know one thing for sure, I'll never defend this socialist POS health care system here in Ontario. I waited 6 months too see a orthopedic surgeon only to get a date for surgery 6 months later and am also told that the date they gave me could be even later depending on many emergency surgeries push back his schedule.

Fortunately it's a foot problem that a podiatrist can operate on...even though it will cost me at least I can get it done on my schedule.

Just makes me wonder why the cash strapped government, short of orthopedic surgeons in this province doesn't reimburse me for this procedure...because having it done outside a hospital is probably thousands $$$$ cheaper.


So if anyone thinks we don't already have 2 tier health care in this country...you can pull your head out of your ass anytime.

Yet I'm charged a health care premium on top of the other fucking taxes I pay...in 9 years this government has not improved health and the wait times are about the same...

Idris

lukin2006 wrote:

Why do we even belong to this organization? Why would we even listen to them?

Because Canada has no balls?

lukin2006

Idris wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Why do we even belong to this organization? Why would we even listen to them?

Because Canada has no balls?

True....