Afghanistan

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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 14,369
    Jesus that video of people falling off that plane is insane.  Not sure how they thought it would actually work but very sad regardless.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

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  • tbergstbergs Posts: 8,750
    Jesus that video of people falling off that plane is insane.  Not sure how they thought it would actually work but very sad regardless.
    Sad indeed and horrible for all involved who are just puppets in this game of war; the citizens left behind who are now fucked, the pilots who had to just take off no matter what and now have to live with what happened and the military personnel in general who now can truly see how worthless the last 20 years will end up being. The only bright spot are the people who were able to get out or do something during that time before it all went to shit again. War never resolves a problem. 
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • curmudgeonesscurmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capitalPosts: 2,881
    we all knew this was how it was going to end.

    we had the sophie's choice of staying indefinitely or getting out now.

    trump made the deal, biden is getting everyone out per the deal.

    we wasted 20 years, trillions of dollars and a bunch of blood for nothing.

    the question is, will the us government learn from this?

    we can't even get covid under control in the south of this country. how the hell are we going to build a nation halfway across the world when we were not even wanted there?

    Tom Nichols has an amazing ability to piss off large numbers of people, and I'm sure many will be provoked by this article, once they're over his comments vaguely directed at Kristi Noem (but actually directed at us as a nation):


    On Twitter, Nichols laid out his opinion on should-we-stay-or-should-we-go. I'm NOT an overnight Afghanistan expert, but his argument, which one might boil down to, "whatever you're going to do, don't do it half-assed," makes sense to me. Relevant tweets here:

    <<My answer, for years, was: Stay and be serious about it and don't try to do it on the cheap. But if we won't commit and we're just guarding posts, then leave and accept the risk.

    "Be serious" about it means, for one thing, decide if you really want to try to modernize a nation like AFG. If you want to go full Marshall Plan, do it. But don't keep infusing cash into black holes and then report all is well. That's not a strategy>>

    And the kicker:

    <<THIS - is why Biden had to pull us out. We cannot make policy in a country of enraged partisans who will take positions based on where they think the other guys *are not* standing. That kind of deranged partisanship is not worth one soldier's life.>>

    If we can't unite as a country to wear a freaking mask to defeat a public health threat, it's not reasonable to expect a rational discussion of foreign policy as it relates to a country most Americans can't find on a map (and probably think is a city in Iraq, anyway).
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 25,958
    we all knew this was how it was going to end.

    we had the sophie's choice of staying indefinitely or getting out now.

    trump made the deal, biden is getting everyone out per the deal.

    we wasted 20 years, trillions of dollars and a bunch of blood for nothing.

    the question is, will the us government learn from this?

    we can't even get covid under control in the south of this country. how the hell are we going to build a nation halfway across the world when we were not even wanted there?

    Tom Nichols has an amazing ability to piss off large numbers of people, and I'm sure many will be provoked by this article, once they're over his comments vaguely directed at Kristi Noem (but actually directed at us as a nation):


    On Twitter, Nichols laid out his opinion on should-we-stay-or-should-we-go. I'm NOT an overnight Afghanistan expert, but his argument, which one might boil down to, "whatever you're going to do, don't do it half-assed," makes sense to me. Relevant tweets here:

    <<My answer, for years, was: Stay and be serious about it and don't try to do it on the cheap. But if we won't commit and we're just guarding posts, then leave and accept the risk.

    "Be serious" about it means, for one thing, decide if you really want to try to modernize a nation like AFG. If you want to go full Marshall Plan, do it. But don't keep infusing cash into black holes and then report all is well. That's not a strategy>>

    And the kicker:

    <<THIS - is why Biden had to pull us out. We cannot make policy in a country of enraged partisans who will take positions based on where they think the other guys *are not* standing. That kind of deranged partisanship is not worth one soldier's life.>>

    If we can't unite as a country to wear a freaking mask to defeat a public health threat, it's not reasonable to expect a rational discussion of foreign policy as it relates to a country most Americans can't find on a map (and probably think is a city in Iraq, anyway).
    China will be developing the country, and the Taliban is willing to work with the Chinese, at least for now.  
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 32,692
    Jesus that video of people falling off that plane is insane.  Not sure how they thought it would actually work but very sad regardless.
    that was fucked up
    I think I'll move to Australia


  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,033
    Biden to address all this at 3:45 p.m. 
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  • jerparker20jerparker20 St. Paul, MNPosts: 2,258
    mrussel1 said:
    we all knew this was how it was going to end.

    we had the sophie's choice of staying indefinitely or getting out now.

    trump made the deal, biden is getting everyone out per the deal.

    we wasted 20 years, trillions of dollars and a bunch of blood for nothing.

    the question is, will the us government learn from this?

    we can't even get covid under control in the south of this country. how the hell are we going to build a nation halfway across the world when we were not even wanted there?

    Tom Nichols has an amazing ability to piss off large numbers of people, and I'm sure many will be provoked by this article, once they're over his comments vaguely directed at Kristi Noem (but actually directed at us as a nation):


    On Twitter, Nichols laid out his opinion on should-we-stay-or-should-we-go. I'm NOT an overnight Afghanistan expert, but his argument, which one might boil down to, "whatever you're going to do, don't do it half-assed," makes sense to me. Relevant tweets here:

    <<My answer, for years, was: Stay and be serious about it and don't try to do it on the cheap. But if we won't commit and we're just guarding posts, then leave and accept the risk.

    "Be serious" about it means, for one thing, decide if you really want to try to modernize a nation like AFG. If you want to go full Marshall Plan, do it. But don't keep infusing cash into black holes and then report all is well. That's not a strategy>>

    And the kicker:

    <<THIS - is why Biden had to pull us out. We cannot make policy in a country of enraged partisans who will take positions based on where they think the other guys *are not* standing. That kind of deranged partisanship is not worth one soldier's life.>>

    If we can't unite as a country to wear a freaking mask to defeat a public health threat, it's not reasonable to expect a rational discussion of foreign policy as it relates to a country most Americans can't find on a map (and probably think is a city in Iraq, anyway).
    China will be developing the country, and the Taliban is willing to work with the Chinese, at least for now.  
    Possibly. There is the issue with the Chinese genocide against the Uighurs, who are Muslims that are more closely allied with Afghans.

    Then there are the tribal warlords of Afghanistan that are beholden to no one. They may take some money from the Taliban, but as history of the region has shown, will take up arms against anyone for their self interest.

    Russia also seems to be lurking in the background as well. 

    Personally, the situation AFG will more than likely breakdown within a year, and the region will revert to tribal fighting along a game of thrones theme.
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 9,834
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 25,958
    mrussel1 said:
    we all knew this was how it was going to end.

    we had the sophie's choice of staying indefinitely or getting out now.

    trump made the deal, biden is getting everyone out per the deal.

    we wasted 20 years, trillions of dollars and a bunch of blood for nothing.

    the question is, will the us government learn from this?

    we can't even get covid under control in the south of this country. how the hell are we going to build a nation halfway across the world when we were not even wanted there?

    Tom Nichols has an amazing ability to piss off large numbers of people, and I'm sure many will be provoked by this article, once they're over his comments vaguely directed at Kristi Noem (but actually directed at us as a nation):


    On Twitter, Nichols laid out his opinion on should-we-stay-or-should-we-go. I'm NOT an overnight Afghanistan expert, but his argument, which one might boil down to, "whatever you're going to do, don't do it half-assed," makes sense to me. Relevant tweets here:

    <<My answer, for years, was: Stay and be serious about it and don't try to do it on the cheap. But if we won't commit and we're just guarding posts, then leave and accept the risk.

    "Be serious" about it means, for one thing, decide if you really want to try to modernize a nation like AFG. If you want to go full Marshall Plan, do it. But don't keep infusing cash into black holes and then report all is well. That's not a strategy>>

    And the kicker:

    <<THIS - is why Biden had to pull us out. We cannot make policy in a country of enraged partisans who will take positions based on where they think the other guys *are not* standing. That kind of deranged partisanship is not worth one soldier's life.>>

    If we can't unite as a country to wear a freaking mask to defeat a public health threat, it's not reasonable to expect a rational discussion of foreign policy as it relates to a country most Americans can't find on a map (and probably think is a city in Iraq, anyway).
    China will be developing the country, and the Taliban is willing to work with the Chinese, at least for now.  
    Possibly. There is the issue with the Chinese genocide against the Uighurs, who are Muslims that are more closely allied with Afghans.

    Then there are the tribal warlords of Afghanistan that are beholden to no one. They may take some money from the Taliban, but as history of the region has shown, will take up arms against anyone for their self interest.

    Russia also seems to be lurking in the background as well. 

    Personally, the situation AFG will more than likely breakdown within a year, and the region will revert to tribal fighting along a game of thrones theme.
    Yeah.  China can't be seen as supporting a regime that is sponsoring terrorism either.  So it's delicate and I think you're right, I'm not sure it's ready to be federalized under one gov't.  I read somewhere recently that the Taliban had been communicating with China, Russia and Iran.  So it wants some recognition, but that doesn't mean it can function.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 20,126
    reading maga twitter one thing is clear. the history of afghanistan clearly started about 11 days ago.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 32,692
    reading maga twitter one thing is clear. the history of afghanistan clearly started about 11 days ago.
    that was impossible to not see coming. 
    I think I'll move to Australia


  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 20,826
    Where's Johnny Chimpo when you need him?
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • curmudgeonesscurmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capitalPosts: 2,881
    Based on what Twitter tells me is trending, the interwebs are full of finger-pointing today, largely by people who probably hadn't thought about Afghanistan in ages, if ever (note that this thread was inactive for years!).

    So I'll just take this opportunity to re/post links to some charities that are working to make a difference for people who are trying to flee:




    Yelling at each other won't accomplish anything. Donating money doesn't do much, but it's something.
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • curmudgeonesscurmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capitalPosts: 2,881
    I received an email from IRAP (refugeerights.org) in the past hour or so, that includes this:

    <<Please reach out to your congressional representatives and the White House to urge them to secure the airport, restart evacuation flights for Afghans, and bring our allies, partners, and clients to the United States immediately. Follow our Twitter feed for the latest updates and retweet us with #saveourallies. And if you know someone seeking help, please refer them to our Legal Resources for Afghans.  >>

    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 25,958
    I received an email from IRAP (refugeerights.org) in the past hour or so, that includes this:

    <<Please reach out to your congressional representatives and the White House to urge them to secure the airport, restart evacuation flights for Afghans, and bring our allies, partners, and clients to the United States immediately. Follow our Twitter feed for the latest updates and retweet us with #saveourallies. And if you know someone seeking help, please refer them to our Legal Resources for Afghans.  >>

    An agreement has already been reached between the commanding US General and the taliban
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 14,369
    Richard Engel was reporting (from the airport) that there was some gunfire directed at US planes/copters but that they didn't appear to be aiming at the aircraft...just shooting in the air.

    He also said that US copters were pointing their lasers at Taliban military to let them know they had an eye on them.  
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland1, Oakland2, Nashville, Louisville 
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 14,369
    Great speech from Biden...
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland1, Oakland2, Nashville, Louisville 
  • I wonder if the Taliban is addressing people by thier proper pronouns??  Some of y’all amaze me still defending the mush brain in office now…. But ya know…Merica…..
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 20,126
    Great speech from Biden...
    i didn't catch it. but you know there is nothing he can say to assuage some of that maga butthurt. those people are angry about everything.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • jerparker20jerparker20 St. Paul, MNPosts: 2,258
    I wonder if the Taliban is addressing people by thier proper pronouns??  Some of y’all amaze me still defending the mush brain in office now…. But ya know…Merica…..
    Nice job contributing absolutely nothing of any meaning to the conversation.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 20,126
    I wonder if the Taliban is addressing people by thier proper pronouns??  Some of y’all amaze me still defending the mush brain in office now…. But ya know…Merica…..
    Nice job contributing absolutely nothing of any meaning to the conversation.
    its not even worth engaging. just scroll past it.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 32,692
    Great speech from Biden...
    i didn't catch it. but you know there is nothing he can say to assuage some of that maga butthurt. those people are angry about everything.
    I watched some of Pompeo on Chris Wallace after watching Biden's speech. that guy is a piece of fucking work. negotiating with the taliban. imagine if Obama had done that. and suggested they get invited to Camp David no less. Unreal. 

    and to insist that Biden botched this when this was trump and pompeo's plan, and his stance is the only reason this is happening at this stage is because the taliban "knows the US has a weak administration and president, they knew if they tried that with us we would have crushed them". yeah, and the dems are the warmongers. He said "crush them" about 4 times in 10 minutes with regards to the Syrians, etc. 
    I think I'll move to Australia


  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 20,126
    warmongers gonna war.

    wonder what john bolton's stupid mustache has to say about all of this.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 20,126
    also, why did the rnc take down the webpage that celebrated trump's taliban deal?
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 20,126
    at any rate, can we start calling biden "the decider" yet?
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • I wonder if the Taliban is addressing people by thier proper pronouns??  Some of y’all amaze me still defending the mush brain in office now…. But ya know…Merica…..
    Nice job contributing absolutely nothing of any meaning to the conversation.
    its not even worth engaging. just scroll past it.
    Exactly, just ignore….it just might all go away. Mush brain Joe Loves you….
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 25,958
    I wonder if the Taliban is addressing people by thier proper pronouns??  Some of y’all amaze me still defending the mush brain in office now…. But ya know…Merica…..
    Nice job contributing absolutely nothing of any meaning to the conversation.
    its not even worth engaging. just scroll past it.
    Exactly, just ignore….it just might all go away. Mush brain Joe Loves you….
    If you could muster a cogent argument,  then people would discuss. But you've never been able to pull one off.
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,602
    I wonder if the Taliban is addressing people by thier proper pronouns??  Some of y’all amaze me still defending the mush brain in office now…. But ya know…Merica…..
    Nice job contributing absolutely nothing of any meaning to the conversation.
    its not even worth engaging. just scroll past it.
    Exactly, just ignore….it just might all go away. Mush brain Joe Loves you….
    Can you bring the racist rhetoric back for a bit so we earn a break from you?
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
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  • WhatYouTaughtMeWhatYouTaughtMe I have no idea what's going on right now!Posts: 4,957
    edited August 2021
    I wonder if the Taliban is addressing people by thier proper pronouns??  Some of y’all amaze me still defending the mush brain in office now…. But ya know…Merica…..
    Speaking of pronouns, maybe you could help me out here. You used to post here as muskydan, got banned and now post as Lindamarie73, which pronoun is the proper one? Should I call you sir or ma'am? Did you transition? Or is it the Wifey's account? 

    Edit- I don't think sir and ma'am are technically pronouns, but I think you get the point. 
    Post edited by WhatYouTaughtMe on
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,033
    Good ole CNN. It's a friendly "death to America" chant, guys. 



    Brings back memories of this...



    As for the reporter, Chelsea Ward (who I must say, is pretty brave to be reporting from there), here's a picture of her reporting the day before the Taliban takeover, versus the day of the takeover. Speaks volumes of what's likely ahead for Afghan women. Even though the operation (westernizing Afghanistan) was a failure, at least those women enjoyed a modicum of human rights during the past 20 years. That's going to end. Pretty sad. 



    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

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