550 sexual abuse claims filed against Milwaukee

Cosmo

Is there an over/under on the number of messages that get posted before this thing gets locked?
...
Also... does anyone else recognize a recurring pattern that always seems to emerge... or is it just me?

pandora

Drowned Out wrote:

pandora wrote:

no you do not understand you are right there

when a person understands situations that does not mean they condone
they only understand

understanding is not your forte so I see why you don't get it

Show me where I said you condone it? ...
I said you are derailing, downplaying, deflecting, and defending....while claiming impartiality.

Ever ask yourself how you always end up being the only person defending the church's inaction in these threads? Are you just that much more enlightened and tolerant than the rest of us, pandora?

understanding is not my forte? So nasty. So mean. :roll:

I guess you would like to close this thread

I do not

stay on topic ... not on me ... thank you

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

Is there an over/under on the number of messages that get posted before this thing gets locked?
...
Also... does anyone else recognize a recurring pattern that always seems to emerge... or is it just me?

I was just thinking the same

polaris_x

Cosmo wrote:

Is there an over/under on the number of messages that get posted before this thing gets locked?
...
Also... does anyone else recognize a recurring pattern that always seems to emerge... or is it just me?

it will only get locked when someone decides they don't like it anymore and report it to the mods ... it's how the most recent thread likely got locked ... someone reporting it because it wasn't going there way ...

anyways ... it's unfortunate some people choose to discuss things in the way they do ...

Cosmo

polaris_x wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

Is there an over/under on the number of messages that get posted before this thing gets locked?
...
Also... does anyone else recognize a recurring pattern that always seems to emerge... or is it just me?

it will only get locked when someone decides they don't like it anymore and report it to the mods ... it's how the most recent thread likely got locked ... someone reporting it because it wasn't going there way ...

anyways ... it's unfortunate some people choose to discuss things in the way they do ...

...
Yup. That was pretty much what I was elluding to.
...
So, is there an over/under?

Drowned Out

pandora wrote:

I guess you would like to close this thread

I do not

stay on topic ... not on me ... thank you

Youre telling me to stay on topic? I count six posts of yours in this thread that are off topic. All of which were made before I posted in this thread....the original point of speaking to you about your viewpoints (which you make part of the topic by pronouncing them "I'd question it, I'm that kind of girl"), was to call you out on derailing the thread and attempting to deflect blame from the church (again). So maybe I'm guilty of thread-policing to an extent....but no, I don't want to see the thread locked. How would it get locked without someone reporting it? Who would report it based on what's transpired? not I....


aaaaannnnyway.....I'll drop that line of questioning. Mentioning your behaviour in this thread only gave you the opportunity to dismiss the rest of my comments......So would you care to reply to any of the on-topic points I made, or rather continue to call the kettle black?

I agree with Cosmo - this should be handled by the authorities....if complaints are made to the church, they should be brought to the police's attention immediately.....if a priest is charged with a felony, they should be suspended from their work like any other person would be. In the meantime, the church should apologize to victims worldwide, and recognize it's past role in this (symbolic, but possibly meaningful to the victims). They should conduct an internal investigation, via an independent third party, and make the results public. They should compensate victims and publicly declare their support for police in these investigations. Holding a conference does nothing, unless this is the result.

But it won't happen, because the apple is rotten to the core; the leaders are complicit and won't implicate themselves.

pandora

it is your opinion I went off topic but for me I was right on target
with points to make

in my opinion all abuse is the same ,whether that be children, women, men, physical, mental,
it all comes from the same place

why I stated the statistic on women being raped every minute in the US
it is all appalling ... as appalling to me as the subject matter of this thread

the fact that this is a man's world and the majority of abuse is at the hands of men
is clearly the basis to the problem that should be addressed


and I have stated my opinion...

My opinion is this conference will be a move in the right direction but I really don't
think anyone is expecting the Catholic Church to admit guilt unless it's
own parishioners demand it, this where the change will take place.
I don't think we'll see individual legal action except towards those
doing the actual abusing.
Case by case lawsuits in the millions, a whistle blowing awareness, social pressure
this is what is taking place and the conference and call for renewal
seems to address where they will go from here.


but the bigger question is why do you need to point anything out
about me

why not just state your opinion as I state mine and be done with it

because you know that threads get closed otherwise

and yes ... which is also on topic ...it is my opinion the Pope is cute
and a symbol of peace and love to many who follow the Catholic religion

we can agree to disagree on that and many things

Drowned Out

I brought you up because you are always defending the church in these threads. And I find the matter indefensible. I am trying to wrap my head around your way of thinking...and it's not happening.

I think many people, esp if they've suffered at the hands of a person in a position of power in a church, would find your reasoning offensive. Those same people would likely be offended by your comments about the pope being a sweetie pie after being shown direct proof of his involvement in covering up the abuse.

Yes, of course all rape is appalling...but no, I don't think many are as appalling as those that victimize children, and are covered up by people claiming moral high ground; the same people who put the predators into the position to commit the crimes.

I don't find your approach to the topic any different from people who enter an "R.I.P" thread dedicated to someone who died, just to make an off-colour remark about it being no more important than the deaths of other people. Wrong time, wrong place to make the comments, imo.

pandora

Drowned Out wrote:

I brought you up because you are always defending the church in these threads.

where did I defend the church?

Again I understand where the Church sits on this and why.

I understand not condone nor defend.

pandora

Drowned Out wrote:

Yes, of course all rape is appalling...but no, I don't think many are as appalling as those that victimize children,

this why one woman is raped every minute in the US ... still

men can somehow tidy it up and place it on a shelf
and most can not ever understand the devastation

the same devastation as a child ... believe me

but debate on this is off topic for sure and as I said it's all the same to me...
violence, power, and self gratification at the expense of another human being

cincybearcat

pandora wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

Yes, of course all rape is appalling...but no, I don't think many are as appalling as those that victimize children,

this why one woman is raped every minute in the US ... still

men can somehow tidy it up and place it on a shelf
and most can not ever understand the devastation

the same devastation as a child ... believe me

but debate on this is off topic for sure and as I said it's all the same to me...
violence, power, and self gratification at the expense of another human being

Pandora... please name for me a global organization of millions that uses it's power and wealth to hide and protect it's members that rape women.

gimmesometruth27

Drowned Out wrote:

pandora wrote:

I guess you would like to close this thread

I do not

stay on topic ... not on me ... thank you

Youre telling me to stay on topic? I count six posts of yours in this thread that are off topic. All of which were made before I posted in this thread....the original point of speaking to you about your viewpoints (which you make part of the topic by pronouncing them "I'd question it, I'm that kind of girl"), was to call you out on derailing the thread and attempting to deflect blame from the church (again). So maybe I'm guilty of thread-policing to an extent....but no, I don't want to see the thread locked. How would it get locked without someone reporting it? Who would report it based on what's transpired? not I....


aaaaannnnyway.....I'll drop that line of questioning. Mentioning your behaviour in this thread only gave you the opportunity to dismiss the rest of my comments......So would you care to reply to any of the on-topic points I made, or rather continue to call the kettle black?

I agree with Cosmo - this should be handled by the authorities....if complaints are made to the church, they should be brought to the police's attention immediately.....if a priest is charged with a felony, they should be suspended from their work like any other person would be. In the meantime, the church should apologize to victims worldwide, and recognize it's past role in this (symbolic, but possibly meaningful to the victims). They should conduct an internal investigation, via an independent third party, and make the results public. They should compensate victims and publicly declare their support for police in these investigations. Holding a conference does nothing, unless this is the result.

But it won't happen, because the apple is rotten to the core; the leaders are complicit and won't implicate themselves.

the church can not apologize, because an apology would be an admission of guilt. and the church can not give the appearance that it is less than what it claims to be or else it would fail.

i agree with cosmo and drowned out. prosecute these people. go all the way as high as the pope.

SweetChildofMine

I will speak to him personally tomorrow.

I agree these people must be prosecuted and be held accountable. The hiding of these crimes and not taking action has further tarnished the Catholic religion. They need to step up to the plate and take responsibility. How many Novenas will it take to set you free? Im not sure.

pandora

I would be very surprised if this happened...
if the Church hierarchy was prosecuted for secrecy.

Should they be, of course this goes without saying,
but the reality makes the discussion mute
in my opinion, real alternatives perhaps could be a much better discussion.

So the should is always there ... it is everywhere, every topic,
like men who rape should be castrated, manhood removed.
Their manhood is a weapon. This would curb some of the abuse
for both women and children.

Many here like to bash religious organizations, those who follow religion,
and religion itself so of course this remains as an undercurrent in discussions.

Again I do not defend nor condone the fact that over a decade ago the Church attempted to
protect itself by covering up heinous acts ...
this has been their policy as far as I know since inception.
Nothing new, true to form.

I understand why they did this and realize that change and accountability comes from
social pressure within it's parishioners.

I do not know how many here who are discussing the 'shoulds' are members of this faith
or how many here have compassion for those of the Catholic faith.

pandora

cincybearcat wrote:

pandora wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

Yes, of course all rape is appalling...but no, I don't think many are as appalling as those that victimize children,

this why one woman is raped every minute in the US ... still

men can somehow tidy it up and place it on a shelf
and most can not ever understand the devastation

the same devastation as a child ... believe me

but debate on this is off topic for sure and as I said it's all the same to me...
violence, power, and self gratification at the expense of another human being

Pandora... please name for me a global organization of millions that uses it's power and wealth to hide and protect it's members that rape women.

I think you missed my analogy and the fact that I do not distinguish between
abuse, for me it is all the same.

I have a feeling though with the mutilations and rape that occur across the globe
some organizations may be turning a blind eye, this my attempt to come close
to an answer for your question.

I'm surprised the callous of the men here when it comes to the statistic I posted.

I mean when I read that I was shocked, never would I have thought this the case.
I was floored,
more floored than the fact that the Catholic Church, which has been shrouded in secrecy
since Christ's time, would protect itself and attempt a cover up ...
oh how shocking :? not.

I focus on the very faithful followers of the Catholic religion, the importance
their faith is in their lives, the trust they have put in their leaders
and here is where any compassion I have for 'The Church' lies.
It is in the individual hearts.

SweetChildofMine

US Military complex @ Guantanamo Bay for one. May not be women and children to my knowledge but its is still beings being raped and defiled.

SweetChildofMine

People can argue about religion. The thing I dont get from zealots and extremist is that their beliefs are making anykind of Peace. One of the biggest organizers of antiwar demonstrations in my area is a Christian man very set into his beliefs system. Not about womens reproductive rights, not against gay marriage and the barage of RWNJ rhetoric causing rifts between people. We were talking one day, I was commenting you want to help fix the world? "What is the root of all evil we can agree upon? Money, greed and the war machine and corporatism, Right? I said,"Forget about that other "shit." You work for the Prince of Peace, right? Act like it!" ... he got a chuckle but at that moment instead of being lost in the rhetoric the clarity for him came. We chuckled. Anyway. Onward!

SweetChildofMine

oops i thought this was the religious beliefs thread.