christianity is straight up dangerous. i know of no other reason for why millions have been executed, tortured, molested, and terrorized. this grand scheme is only in the name of power and money.
"Hyperboles are exaggerations to create emphasis or effect. As a literary device, hyperbole is often used in poetry, and is frequently encountered in casual speech. An example of hyperbole is: "The bag weighed a ton."[2] Hyperbole helps to make the point that the bag was very heavy, although it is not probable that it would actually weigh a ton." Source: Wiki
Everyone, if you want to have a discussion about this issue, please do so with reasoned debate and stick to the topic. It could be interesting or it could get locked. Thank you.
that is badass, kat
i am speechless
my post is a hyperbole? my posts are fulla hyperboles? i haven't ever hyperboled
it's a fraud organization filled with hate and operates on fear as far as i'm concerned ... i respect pretty much every faith out there ... even scientology to a certain degree but i feel the catholic church does more harm than good in society ...
any organization that is willing to sacrifice the well being of children in order to protect its name is capable of doing a lot more heinous acts ...
...
I agree, the Catholic Church's track record isn't the best. They DO do things that benefit people... but, even all the great things they do can never overcome the horrible acts they commit. The Church... and more importantly, Catholics... must come to this realization. By letting these kinds of CRIMES go unpunished and swept under the rug only serves to nullify the good that they do.
This also goes to humans in general... like, you may be the world's greatest Philanthropist and give millions or billions to children's funds... but, if you are also a child rapist, you trade your Philanthropist title for Pedophile and you are nothing more than a child rapist who gives away money.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
although isn't it like every minute a woman is raped here in the US
what's with the menfolk? :?
by this logic ... no one should ever hold themselves accountable ...
it's the silent majority that allows these acts to continue ... the people who turn a blind eye to abuse ... the people who make excuses for evil acts ... the people who apologize for the inaction ... the people who justify one evil act by pointing out other evil acts ... it is no wonder the catholic church has done nothing ... they haven't had to ... thanks to those that allow these acts to continue ...
although isn't it like every minute a woman is raped here in the US
what's with the menfolk? :?
by this logic ... no one should ever hold themselves accountable ...
it's the silent majority that allows these acts to continue ... the people who turn a blind eye to abuse ... the people who make excuses for evil acts ... the people who apologize for the inaction ... the people who justify one evil act by pointing out other evil acts ... it is no wonder the catholic church has done nothing ... they haven't had to ... thanks to those that allow these acts to continue ...
I think it is called social progress and the lack there of was my point
this is a man's world still
it is the Catholics themselves that demand change... it is their organization
and I'm pretty sure progress has been made by the sheer whistle blowing going on
wish the same could be said for the rapes happening every damn minute in our country
but men still view women as second class property and sex as a bodily function
it's the silent majority that allows these acts to continue ... the people who turn a blind eye to abuse ... the people who make excuses for evil acts ... the people who apologize for the inaction ... the people who justify one evil act by pointing out other evil acts ... it is no wonder the catholic church has done nothing ... they haven't had to ... thanks to those that allow these acts to continue ...
Agreed. This was a massive coverup by a large organization and that organization should have to answer for it. Personally, I believe any Catholic church should lose their tax-free status until the Federal Gov't is happy with the program/plans that they have in place to deal with these types of issues going forward.
The act itself must be dealt with on an individual level, but to knowingly hide it and aid a criminal should have some repercussions.
Until the Catholic church can show that they are now able to deal with these situations in a humane and decent manner they need to be held accountable. In fact, wherever there is proof, law enforcement should go after those people involved. Wouldn't it be interesting to see the pope arrested on his next US visit?
Wouldn't it be interesting to see the pope arrested on his next US visit?
:thumbup:
i'm all for that ... look at what happened at PSU ... everyone that knew something and did diddly-squat has been fired ... yet, this pope who authorized the cover up is supposedly someone we are supposed to get guidance from!?? ...
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,430
Wouldn't it be interesting to see the pope arrested on his next US visit?
:thumbup:
i'm all for that ... look at what happened at PSU ... everyone that knew something and did diddly-squat has been fired ... yet, this pope who authorized the cover up is supposedly someone we are supposed to get guidance from!?? ...
+1
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Agreed. This was a massive coverup by a large organization and that organization should have to answer for it. Personally, I believe any Catholic church should lose their tax-free status until the Federal Gov't is happy with the program/plans that they have in place to deal with these types of issues going forward.
The act itself must be dealt with on an individual level, but to knowingly hide it and aid a criminal should have some repercussions.
Until the Catholic church can show that they are now able to deal with these situations in a humane and decent manner they need to be held accountable. In fact, wherever there is proof, law enforcement should go after those people involved. Wouldn't it be interesting to see the pope arrested on his next US visit?
...
I agree. The organization that is the Catholic Church needs to at the bare minimum, acknowledge that it exists... and has existed for decades, if not centuries. The Catholics are the ones who should speak out and demand change, instead of denying the acts, defending the church and villifying the victims. Until that happens... the crimes will continue and the number of victims will continue to increase.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
so he was not The Pope at the time of the coverup in 2001
he was part of the cover up, and resided over many, many more.
From the article posted earlier in the thread:
…as Cardinal Josef Ratzinger, he was the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Holy See's doctrinal enforcement body.
He has been blamed for fostering a culture of secrecy there, signing an official Vatican document in 2001 which instructed bishops to keep secret the details of priestly wrongdoing that they reported to Rome.
During his six-year papacy, paedophile abuse scandals have shaken the faith of Catholics in Ireland, the Netherlands, Belgium, Austria and his native Germany.
But he's really 'a sweetie pie...a very positive loving figure ...sweet and cute'? .....you throw in comments about Coaches, Scout leaders, school teachers, Policemen, next door neighbors, your best friends husband, and clowns…Clowns? …..then some about it being a "man's world", men regarding women as possessions, and mention the regularity of other forms of sexual abuse....more derailing/deflecting. As if people in these positions have abused kids with anywhere near the regularity of catholic priests. As if they've systemically covered up abuse, as an orginizational policy, the way we've seen with the church.
All people are asking for is that those accused and/or found guilty be held accountable by the organization they work for, like probably every one of us would be by our places of employment if we were accused of such things…..Esp when it is the organization itself that put them in a position to be able to abuse the power they had. It is the very definition of organizational ethics, betrayed by the organization who tries to tell us how to be ethical!
I don’t understand how you, Pandora, while insisting you are NOT defending these peoples’ actions, end up alone on the opposing side of a debate in every one of these threads....in fact, I don't understand how there is any debate in these threads? Maybe I'm just being mean :?
It's not just one or two cases here, it is a coverup of thousands or more.
I'm for catholics fixing it, but also for the legal system holding those that knew and did nothing or hid it accountable.
yes ... a lot of Pope Bashin going on
by less than lovers
My opinion is this conference will be a move in the right direction but I really don't
think anyone is expecting the Catholic Church to admit guilt unless it's
own parishioners demand it, this where the change will take place.
I don't think we'll see individual legal action except towards those
doing the actual abusing.
Case by case lawsuits in the millions, a whistle blowing awareness, social pressure
this is what is taking place and the conference and call for renewal
seems to address where they will go from here.
so he was not The Pope at the time of the coverup in 2001
he was part of the cover up, and resided over many, many more.
From the article posted earlier in the thread:
…as Cardinal Josef Ratzinger, he was the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Holy See's doctrinal enforcement body.
He has been blamed for fostering a culture of secrecy there, signing an official Vatican document in 2001 which instructed bishops to keep secret the details of priestly wrongdoing that they reported to Rome.
During his six-year papacy, paedophile abuse scandals have shaken the faith of Catholics in Ireland, the Netherlands, Belgium, Austria and his native Germany.
But he's really 'a sweetie pie...a very positive loving figure ...sweet and cute'? .....you throw in comments about Coaches, Scout leaders, school teachers, Policemen, next door neighbors, your best friends husband, and clowns…Clowns? …..then some about it being a "man's world", men regarding women as possessions, and mention the regularity of other forms of sexual abuse....more derailing/deflecting. As if people in these positions have abused kids with anywhere near the regularity of catholic priests. As if they've systemically covered up abuse, as an orginizational policy, the way we've seen with the church.
All people are asking for is that those accused and/or found guilty be held accountable by the organization they work for, like probably every one of us would be by our places of employment if we were accused of such things…..Esp when it is the organization itself that put them in a position to be able to abuse the power they had. It is the very definition of organizational ethics, betrayed by the organization who tries to tell us how to be ethical!
I don’t understand how you, Pandora, while insisting you are NOT defending these peoples’ actions, end up alone on the opposing side of a debate in every one of these threads....in fact, I don't understand how there is any debate in these threads? Maybe I'm just being mean :?
no you do not understand you are right there
when a person understands situations that does not mean they condone
they only understand
understanding is not your forte so I see why you don't get it
It's not just one or two cases here, it is a coverup of thousands or more.
I'm for catholics fixing it, but also for the legal system holding those that knew and did nothing or hid it accountable.
...
This is exactly what needs to happen. The Catholic Church cannot and should not be the vehicle to dispense justice... the law enforcement and court systems of the nations in which these crimes are committed are the ones who should be involved. NOT Vatican Police... local police, NOT a council of Bishops... a judge and jury. The same way the Penn State situation was allowed to continue because the university was conducting the investigation, not the police.
As for 'Mean Spirited' criticism... that type of reasoning is exactly how the criminal activity is allowed to exist. Reporting criminal activity is NOT mean spirited criticism... and neither is a discussion that points out the flaws committed by the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church will benefit is it does the right thing and turns the criminals, they institutionally protect, over to the proper authorities to dispense justice for the victims.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
when a person understands situations that does not mean they condone
they only understand
understanding is not your forte so I see why you don't get it
Show me where I said you condone it? ...
I said you are derailing, downplaying, deflecting, and defending....while claiming impartiality.
Ever ask yourself how you always end up being the only person defending the church's inaction in these threads? Are you just that much more enlightened and tolerant than the rest of us, pandora?
understanding is not my forte? So nasty. So mean. :roll:
Is there an over/under on the number of messages that get posted before this thing gets locked?
...
Also... does anyone else recognize a recurring pattern that always seems to emerge... or is it just me?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
when a person understands situations that does not mean they condone
they only understand
understanding is not your forte so I see why you don't get it
Show me where I said you condone it? ...
I said you are derailing, downplaying, deflecting, and defending....while claiming impartiality.
Ever ask yourself how you always end up being the only person defending the church's inaction in these threads? Are you just that much more enlightened and tolerant than the rest of us, pandora?
understanding is not my forte? So nasty. So mean. :roll:
Is there an over/under on the number of messages that get posted before this thing gets locked?
...
Also... does anyone else recognize a recurring pattern that always seems to emerge... or is it just me?
Is there an over/under on the number of messages that get posted before this thing gets locked?
...
Also... does anyone else recognize a recurring pattern that always seems to emerge... or is it just me?
it will only get locked when someone decides they don't like it anymore and report it to the mods ... it's how the most recent thread likely got locked ... someone reporting it because it wasn't going there way ...
anyways ... it's unfortunate some people choose to discuss things in the way they do ...
Is there an over/under on the number of messages that get posted before this thing gets locked?
...
Also... does anyone else recognize a recurring pattern that always seems to emerge... or is it just me?
it will only get locked when someone decides they don't like it anymore and report it to the mods ... it's how the most recent thread likely got locked ... someone reporting it because it wasn't going there way ...
anyways ... it's unfortunate some people choose to discuss things in the way they do ...
...
Yup. That was pretty much what I was elluding to.
...
So, is there an over/under?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Youre telling me to stay on topic? I count six posts of yours in this thread that are off topic. All of which were made before I posted in this thread....the original point of speaking to you about your viewpoints (which you make part of the topic by pronouncing them "I'd question it, I'm that kind of girl"), was to call you out on derailing the thread and attempting to deflect blame from the church (again). So maybe I'm guilty of thread-policing to an extent....but no, I don't want to see the thread locked. How would it get locked without someone reporting it? Who would report it based on what's transpired? not I....
aaaaannnnyway.....I'll drop that line of questioning. Mentioning your behaviour in this thread only gave you the opportunity to dismiss the rest of my comments......So would you care to reply to any of the on-topic points I made, or rather continue to call the kettle black?
I agree with Cosmo - this should be handled by the authorities....if complaints are made to the church, they should be brought to the police's attention immediately.....if a priest is charged with a felony, they should be suspended from their work like any other person would be. In the meantime, the church should apologize to victims worldwide, and recognize it's past role in this (symbolic, but possibly meaningful to the victims). They should conduct an internal investigation, via an independent third party, and make the results public. They should compensate victims and publicly declare their support for police in these investigations. Holding a conference does nothing, unless this is the result.
But it won't happen, because the apple is rotten to the core; the leaders are complicit and won't implicate themselves.
it is your opinion I went off topic but for me I was right on target with points to make
in my opinionall abuse is the same ,whether that be children, women, men, physical, mental,
it all comes from the same place
why I stated the statistic on women being raped every minute in the US
it is all appalling ... as appalling to me as the subject matter of this thread
the fact that this is a man's world and the majority of abuse is at the hands of men
is clearly the basis to the problem that should be addressed
and I have stated my opinion...
My opinion is this conference will be a move in the right direction but I really don't
think anyone is expecting the Catholic Church to admit guilt unless it's
own parishioners demand it, this where the change will take place.
I don't think we'll see individual legal action except towards those
doing the actual abusing.
Case by case lawsuits in the millions, a whistle blowing awareness, social pressure
this is what is taking place and the conference and call for renewal
seems to address where they will go from here.
but the bigger question is why do you need to point anything out about me
why not just state your opinion as I state mine and be done with it
because you know that threads get closed otherwise
and yes ... which is also on topic ...it is my opinion the Pope is cute
and a symbol of peace and love to many who follow the Catholic religion
I brought you up because you are always defending the church in these threads. And I find the matter indefensible. I am trying to wrap my head around your way of thinking...and it's not happening.
I think many people, esp if they've suffered at the hands of a person in a position of power in a church, would find your reasoning offensive. Those same people would likely be offended by your comments about the pope being a sweetie pie after being shown direct proof of his involvement in covering up the abuse.
Yes, of course all rape is appalling...but no, I don't think many are as appalling as those that victimize children, and are covered up by people claiming moral high ground; the same people who put the predators into the position to commit the crimes.
I don't find your approach to the topic any different from people who enter an "R.I.P" thread dedicated to someone who died, just to make an off-colour remark about it being no more important than the deaths of other people. Wrong time, wrong place to make the comments, imo.
Yes, of course all rape is appalling...but no, I don't think many are as appalling as those that victimize children,
this why one woman is raped every minute in the US ... still
men can somehow tidy it up and place it on a shelf
and most can not ever understand the devastation
the same devastation as a child ... believe me
but debate on this is off topic for sure and as I said it's all the same to me...
violence, power, and self gratification at the expense of another human being
Comments
i am speechless
my post is a hyperbole? my posts are fulla hyperboles? i haven't ever hyperboled
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I agree, the Catholic Church's track record isn't the best. They DO do things that benefit people... but, even all the great things they do can never overcome the horrible acts they commit. The Church... and more importantly, Catholics... must come to this realization. By letting these kinds of CRIMES go unpunished and swept under the rug only serves to nullify the good that they do.
This also goes to humans in general... like, you may be the world's greatest Philanthropist and give millions or billions to children's funds... but, if you are also a child rapist, you trade your Philanthropist title for Pedophile and you are nothing more than a child rapist who gives away money.
Hail, Hail!!!
by this logic ... no one should ever hold themselves accountable ...
it's the silent majority that allows these acts to continue ... the people who turn a blind eye to abuse ... the people who make excuses for evil acts ... the people who apologize for the inaction ... the people who justify one evil act by pointing out other evil acts ... it is no wonder the catholic church has done nothing ... they haven't had to ... thanks to those that allow these acts to continue ...
this is a man's world still
it is the Catholics themselves that demand change... it is their organization
and I'm pretty sure progress has been made by the sheer whistle blowing going on
wish the same could be said for the rapes happening every damn minute in our country
but men still view women as second class property and sex as a bodily function
Agreed. This was a massive coverup by a large organization and that organization should have to answer for it. Personally, I believe any Catholic church should lose their tax-free status until the Federal Gov't is happy with the program/plans that they have in place to deal with these types of issues going forward.
The act itself must be dealt with on an individual level, but to knowingly hide it and aid a criminal should have some repercussions.
Until the Catholic church can show that they are now able to deal with these situations in a humane and decent manner they need to be held accountable. In fact, wherever there is proof, law enforcement should go after those people involved. Wouldn't it be interesting to see the pope arrested on his next US visit?
:thumbup:
i'm all for that ... look at what happened at PSU ... everyone that knew something and did diddly-squat has been fired ... yet, this pope who authorized the cover up is supposedly someone we are supposed to get guidance from!?? ...
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
so he was not The Pope at the time of the coverup in 2001
I agree. The organization that is the Catholic Church needs to at the bare minimum, acknowledge that it exists... and has existed for decades, if not centuries. The Catholics are the ones who should speak out and demand change, instead of denying the acts, defending the church and villifying the victims. Until that happens... the crimes will continue and the number of victims will continue to increase.
Hail, Hail!!!
:(
sorry - let me rephrase ...
yet, this pope (who wasn't pope at the time) who authorized the cover up is supposedly someone we are supposed to get guidance from!?? ...
is that better?
:shock: :shock: :shock:
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
why would this person have the authority over the
residing Pope at the time to do so?
sounds like a passing of the buck to me
and do you get guidance from the Pope or do you just want to bash the Pope?
I think everyone can agree this is for Catholics to fix otherwise it is just mean spirited
criticism yet again
It's not just one or two cases here, it is a coverup of thousands or more.
I'm for catholics fixing it, but also for the legal system holding those that knew and did nothing or hid it accountable.
sooo ... if there is police brutality - no one should offer criticism unless they are part of the police force?? ...
From the article posted earlier in the thread:
But he's really 'a sweetie pie...a very positive loving figure ...sweet and cute'? .....you throw in comments about Coaches, Scout leaders, school teachers, Policemen, next door neighbors, your best friends husband, and clowns…Clowns? …..then some about it being a "man's world", men regarding women as possessions, and mention the regularity of other forms of sexual abuse....more derailing/deflecting. As if people in these positions have abused kids with anywhere near the regularity of catholic priests. As if they've systemically covered up abuse, as an orginizational policy, the way we've seen with the church.
All people are asking for is that those accused and/or found guilty be held accountable by the organization they work for, like probably every one of us would be by our places of employment if we were accused of such things…..Esp when it is the organization itself that put them in a position to be able to abuse the power they had. It is the very definition of organizational ethics, betrayed by the organization who tries to tell us how to be ethical!
I don’t understand how you, Pandora, while insisting you are NOT defending these peoples’ actions, end up alone on the opposing side of a debate in every one of these threads....in fact, I don't understand how there is any debate in these threads? Maybe I'm just being mean :?
by less than lovers
My opinion is this conference will be a move in the right direction but I really don't
think anyone is expecting the Catholic Church to admit guilt unless it's
own parishioners demand it, this where the change will take place.
I don't think we'll see individual legal action except towards those
doing the actual abusing.
Case by case lawsuits in the millions, a whistle blowing awareness, social pressure
this is what is taking place and the conference and call for renewal
seems to address where they will go from here.
when a person understands situations that does not mean they condone
they only understand
understanding is not your forte so I see why you don't get it
This is exactly what needs to happen. The Catholic Church cannot and should not be the vehicle to dispense justice... the law enforcement and court systems of the nations in which these crimes are committed are the ones who should be involved. NOT Vatican Police... local police, NOT a council of Bishops... a judge and jury. The same way the Penn State situation was allowed to continue because the university was conducting the investigation, not the police.
As for 'Mean Spirited' criticism... that type of reasoning is exactly how the criminal activity is allowed to exist. Reporting criminal activity is NOT mean spirited criticism... and neither is a discussion that points out the flaws committed by the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church will benefit is it does the right thing and turns the criminals, they institutionally protect, over to the proper authorities to dispense justice for the victims.
Hail, Hail!!!
I said you are derailing, downplaying, deflecting, and defending....while claiming impartiality.
Ever ask yourself how you always end up being the only person defending the church's inaction in these threads? Are you just that much more enlightened and tolerant than the rest of us, pandora?
understanding is not my forte? So nasty. So mean. :roll:
...
Also... does anyone else recognize a recurring pattern that always seems to emerge... or is it just me?
Hail, Hail!!!
I do not
stay on topic ... not on me ... thank you
it will only get locked when someone decides they don't like it anymore and report it to the mods ... it's how the most recent thread likely got locked ... someone reporting it because it wasn't going there way ...
anyways ... it's unfortunate some people choose to discuss things in the way they do ...
Yup. That was pretty much what I was elluding to.
...
So, is there an over/under?
Hail, Hail!!!
aaaaannnnyway.....I'll drop that line of questioning. Mentioning your behaviour in this thread only gave you the opportunity to dismiss the rest of my comments......So would you care to reply to any of the on-topic points I made, or rather continue to call the kettle black?
I agree with Cosmo - this should be handled by the authorities....if complaints are made to the church, they should be brought to the police's attention immediately.....if a priest is charged with a felony, they should be suspended from their work like any other person would be. In the meantime, the church should apologize to victims worldwide, and recognize it's past role in this (symbolic, but possibly meaningful to the victims). They should conduct an internal investigation, via an independent third party, and make the results public. They should compensate victims and publicly declare their support for police in these investigations. Holding a conference does nothing, unless this is the result.
But it won't happen, because the apple is rotten to the core; the leaders are complicit and won't implicate themselves.
with points to make
in my opinion all abuse is the same ,whether that be children, women, men, physical, mental,
it all comes from the same place
why I stated the statistic on women being raped every minute in the US
it is all appalling ... as appalling to me as the subject matter of this thread
the fact that this is a man's world and the majority of abuse is at the hands of men
is clearly the basis to the problem that should be addressed
and I have stated my opinion...
My opinion is this conference will be a move in the right direction but I really don't
think anyone is expecting the Catholic Church to admit guilt unless it's
own parishioners demand it, this where the change will take place.
I don't think we'll see individual legal action except towards those
doing the actual abusing.
Case by case lawsuits in the millions, a whistle blowing awareness, social pressure
this is what is taking place and the conference and call for renewal
seems to address where they will go from here.
but the bigger question is why do you need to point anything out
about me
why not just state your opinion as I state mine and be done with it
because you know that threads get closed otherwise
and yes ... which is also on topic ...it is my opinion the Pope is cute
and a symbol of peace and love to many who follow the Catholic religion
we can agree to disagree on that and many things
I think many people, esp if they've suffered at the hands of a person in a position of power in a church, would find your reasoning offensive. Those same people would likely be offended by your comments about the pope being a sweetie pie after being shown direct proof of his involvement in covering up the abuse.
Yes, of course all rape is appalling...but no, I don't think many are as appalling as those that victimize children, and are covered up by people claiming moral high ground; the same people who put the predators into the position to commit the crimes.
I don't find your approach to the topic any different from people who enter an "R.I.P" thread dedicated to someone who died, just to make an off-colour remark about it being no more important than the deaths of other people. Wrong time, wrong place to make the comments, imo.
Again I understand where the Church sits on this and why.
I understand not condone nor defend.
men can somehow tidy it up and place it on a shelf
and most can not ever understand the devastation
the same devastation as a child ... believe me
but debate on this is off topic for sure and as I said it's all the same to me...
violence, power, and self gratification at the expense of another human being