Edit: Pandora, here's a quote from someone on this message board posted not too long ago:
"I love the death penalty, Rick Perry, and Israel
WOOT!".
Now go ahead and 'understand' that, and enlighten us all as to the posters 'motives'. Can you tell us all how 'the gift of all interaction' (whatever that means?) applies here?
Thanks.
I remember seeing that post and being confused by it.
I used to support the DP, but even then, I was saddened that I thought we needed to use it. To say "I love the death penalty" is just plain strange, and sounds a bit baiting...looking for a rise maybe? I remember wondering about the motive to use those words. Love+DP?? odd.
Actually its a core belief and not the least bit baiting in my opinion...
no personal attack, no disrespect
no personal ridicule... did not attack another poster or rile them
people feel strongly about their core beliefs their words show this
and they are rarely effected by others opinions, rarely changed and why debating those subjects
can be rather futile.
Great, thats your opinion. (I never brought up personal attacks or disrespect - nothing to do with it)
I saw it differently, and so did many others.
btw, I vaguely recall that post but I think it was out of context in the thread. Obvious baiting. Very obvious.
On a side note, you may also have a very different understanding than many others, of the word troll in the land of the internets vs. real world.
Its also the exact same thing as posting this response: "death penalty" in the GOP's 10 Most Extreme Attacks On a Woman's Right to Choose thread. Its off topic and childish baiting, aka internet trolling.
This isnt about accepting someone else's opinion, its about how to deal with trolling.
I can accept a difference of opinion, but its taken some time to identify and ignore obvious trolling.
Actually its a core belief and not the least bit baiting in my opinion...
no personal attack, no disrespect
no personal ridicule... did not attack another poster or rile them
people feel strongly about their core beliefs their words show this
and they are rarely effected by others opinions, rarely changed and why debating those subjects
can be rather futile.
Great, thats your opinion. (I never brought up personal attacks or disrespect - nothing to do with it)
I saw it differently, and so did many others.
btw, I vaguely recall that post but I think it was out of context in the thread. Obvious baiting. Very obvious.
On a side note, you may also have a very different understanding than many others, of the word troll in the land of the internets vs. real world.
We can make the internet a kinder gentler place too and it seems it is the real world
look at it all
so many choose not to see the personal attacks and disrespect
yet they will call someone a troll or say that they are baiting baiting is not an unpopular opinion it is just another's opinion.
yes obviously I have said I feel troll are the bullies,
criticizing, ridiculing, causing personal attacks which are much more
detrimental than someone stating an opinion that is unpopular
In my opinion
troll = a 'puddle full of detrimental' ...
it is those who are unkind and harmful to others...
just like the real world
so many choose not to see the personal attacks and disrespect
yet they will call someone a troll or say that they are baiting baiting is not an unpopular opinion it is just another's opinion.
You missed the point again. its the context, not the opinion.
yes obviously I have said I feel troll are the bullies,
criticizing, ridiculing, causing personal attacks which are much more
detrimental than someone stating an opinion that is unpopular
In my opinion
troll = a 'puddle full of detrimental' ...
it is those who are unkind and harmful to others...
just like the real world
If you look past the words and see the context it is a different thing than just opinion. Sorry you dont see that or understand it, so thats the last time I will say it.
How do you explain my other post about the abortion thread? Look at the context of things.
so many choose not to see the personal attacks and disrespect
yet they will call someone a troll or say that they are baiting baiting is not an unpopular opinion it is just another's opinion.
You missed the point again. its the context, not the opinion.
yes obviously I have said I feel troll are the bullies,
criticizing, ridiculing, causing personal attacks which are much more
detrimental than someone stating an opinion that is unpopular
In my opinion
troll = a 'puddle full of detrimental' ...
it is those who are unkind and harmful to others...
just like the real world
If you look past the words and see the context it is a different thing than just opinion. Sorry you dont see that or understand it, so thats the last time I will say it.
How do you explain my other post about the abortion thread? Look at the context of things.
I did not see your other post....
but my point perhaps you missed ...
As much or more than context is how we treat each other that is important. That ones opinion
can leave the context of a thread when it is not the popular rant at that particular moment
but related none the same to that person posting.
That being a troll is being harmful to both thread context and its posters.
It is as much... it is more those who continue to attack others personally.
That is a troll in my opinion...
It comes down to respecting each other whether we agree or not.
This a mature concept ... the gift of interaction
It is pretty funny though, I think no matter what anyone defines "troll" to be, we all have who we consider to be our own trolls.
And there are certainly people around here that fit the bill of the internet definition as well.
And I think the spirit of the OPs post is a good one. Avoid the trolls, anyone you consider to be a troll. If you don't get anything valuable from the interaction, why stress about it?
It is pretty funny though, I think no matter what anyone defines "troll" to be, we all have who we consider to be our own trolls.
And there are certainly people around here that fit the bill of the internet definition as well.
And I think the spirit of the OPs post is a good one. Avoid the trolls, anyone you consider to be a troll. If you don't get anything valuable from the interaction, why stress about it?
for some reason i read your post and it reminded me of this semi-paraphrased quote from the three amigos..
"we all have our own personal el guapo. for some, it may be the inability to read or hold a job. in our case, our el guapo is the real el guapo who is a big mean guy who wants to kill us..."
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
the thing is, people are DELIBERATELY being trolls. it is just that some people have been so brainwashed that they believe in things like murder, conquest, and the will of the nation above the will of the people.
is this statement a contradiction?
"DELIBERATELY being trolls / so brainwashed that they believe"
aren't they just stating their opinion which is not one you share?
meant to say they are NOT deliberately being trolls. if you're deliberately being a troll, you're just a troll... there's no need for the word "deliberately." that would be redundant.
yes, they are just stating their opinion. but when their opinion is founded on hate and bigotry and ethnocentrism, it produces the same effect for most readers here as someone who is trolling.
hence my point, they are NOT deliberately trolling, but producing the same effect as a troll.
any opinion not founded on rationality, logic and compassion shouldn't be treated like gold just because it is someone's *SUPPOSEDLY* original thought. that would be stupid. that would mean we couldn't throw ideas of the KKK and Hitler and communism in the trash heap. That may be hyperbole, but some peoples' opinions here are just as hateful or ignorant as those examples.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
the thing is, people are DELIBERATELY being trolls. it is just that some people have been so brainwashed that they believe in things like murder, conquest, and the will of the nation above the will of the people.
is this statement a contradiction?
"DELIBERATELY being trolls / so brainwashed that they believe"
aren't they just stating their opinion which is not one you share?
meant to say they are NOT deliberately being trolls. if you're deliberately being a troll, you're just a troll... there's no need for the word "deliberately." that would be redundant.
yes, they are just stating their opinion. but when their opinion is founded on hate and bigotry and ethnocentrism, it produces the same effect for most readers here as someone who is trolling.
hence my point, they are NOT deliberately trolling, but producing the same effect as a troll.
any opinion not founded on rationality, logic and compassion shouldn't be treated like gold just because it is someone's *SUPPOSEDLY* original thought. that would be stupid. that would mean we couldn't throw ideas of the KKK and Hitler and communism in the trash heap. That may be hyperbole, but some peoples' opinions here are just as hateful or ignorant as those examples.
I agree the hateful way some approach others is definitely trollish.
I have felt this when I have been trolled by others. The brunt of nasty smug remarks
put downs etc. very trolling indeed.
My opinion we must remain compassionate for all even those we don't agree with
and accept their right to their own gold thoughts ... lord knows everyone here
thinks theirs is and some might even agree they are golden keepers....
I have found many!
In my case I feel my opinions, often not based in logic nor rationality.
I feel others opinions as well even though I do not not necessarily share them.
I enjoy that, being free to feel, one learns a lot this way cause you never know
who you will learn what from...
best not to judge a book by its cover and even once read ....
there's always a chance for a sequel
we have a wonderful gift in each other most especially those we do not agree with
the thing is, people are DELIBERATELY being trolls. it is just that some people have been so brainwashed that they believe in things like murder, conquest, and the will of the nation above the will of the people.
is this statement a contradiction?
"DELIBERATELY being trolls / so brainwashed that they believe"
aren't they just stating their opinion which is not one you share?
meant to say they are NOT deliberately being trolls. if you're deliberately being a troll, you're just a troll... there's no need for the word "deliberately." that would be redundant.
yes, they are just stating their opinion. but when their opinion is founded on hate and bigotry and ethnocentrism, it produces the same effect for most readers here as someone who is trolling.
hence my point, they are NOT deliberately trolling, but producing the same effect as a troll.
any opinion not founded on rationality, logic and compassion shouldn't be treated like gold just because it is someone's *SUPPOSEDLY* original thought. that would be stupid. that would mean we couldn't throw ideas of the KKK and Hitler and communism in the trash heap. That may be hyperbole, but some peoples' opinions here are just as hateful or ignorant as those examples.
Hitler would very much approve of your deciding what ideas to "throw on the ash heap" and which to cherish.
This is how it starts...
This is what tyranny looks like, when it's reaching out to shake your hand for the first time...
My 2012 Resolution - Ignore the thread about ignoring trolls
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Hitler would very much approve of your deciding what ideas to "throw on the ash heap" and which to cherish.
This is how it starts...
This is what tyranny looks like, when it's reaching out to shake your hand for the first time...
oh, that's like poetry. pfft. i don't know why it is hard to understand that when people post stuff that's hateful and bigoted it is utter shite.
there IS line of what's acceptable and what's not. the homophobe who was making fun of the gay guy here a while back? not acceptable. promoting a view of US dominance and a tacit approval of murder? not acceptable. It doesn't need to be deleted or scrubbed, it just needs to be pointed out that it is lizard-brained rhetoric and produces the same effect as someone who's seriously trolling.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
Hitler would very much approve of your deciding what ideas to "throw on the ash heap" and which to cherish.
This is how it starts...
This is what tyranny looks like, when it's reaching out to shake your hand for the first time...
oh, that's like poetry. pfft. i don't know why it is hard to understand that when people post stuff that's hateful and bigoted it is utter shite.
there IS line of what's acceptable and what's not. the homophobe who was making fun of the gay guy here a while back? not acceptable. promoting a view of US dominance and a tacit approval of murder? not acceptable. It doesn't need to be deleted or scrubbed, it just needs to be pointed out that it is lizard-brained rhetoric and produces the same effect as someone who's seriously trolling.
acceptable ? by whos standards....yours ? c'mon man this is the train and not all of us have the same views or opinions of the world as you see it.
Hitler would very much approve of your deciding what ideas to "throw on the ash heap" and which to cherish.
This is how it starts...
This is what tyranny looks like, when it's reaching out to shake your hand for the first time...
oh, that's like poetry. pfft. i don't know why it is hard to understand that when people post stuff that's hateful and bigoted it is utter shite.
there IS line of what's acceptable and what's not. the homophobe who was making fun of the gay guy here a while back? not acceptable. promoting a view of US dominance and a tacit approval of murder? not acceptable. It doesn't need to be deleted or scrubbed, it just needs to be pointed out that it is lizard-brained rhetoric and produces the same effect as someone who's seriously trolling.
acceptable ? by whos standards....yours ? c'mon man this is the train and not all of us have the same views or opinions of the world as you see it.
Godfather
I think I agree somewhat with Godfather here. Whilst I understand your position HSS, and I also find the things you mentioned reprehensible, if it is a reasonably presented opinion (and I don't know what these posts you mention were), it needs to be accepted as part of a debate. Some people may be homophobe but there is a way of saying this and you may choose to respond with your views. If one 'jumps' into a debate ref homosexuality for example and, completely out of context, says something short and flippant (eg all these f*** ask for a red hot poker.... - you get my drift) as their only contribution in order to antagonise, I would consider that trolling.
My 2012 Resolution - Ignore the thread about ignoring trolls
Already failed huh?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
again, I'm NOT saying anything should be deleted, locked, scrubbed or that people should be banned. all I'm saying is that it is the duty of everyone here to keep the place down the path where the collective will takes it. We should call out, make fun of, and even ridicule those who stray WAY off or even go backwards by advocating hate, bigotry or ignorance. That kind of stuff doesn't belong in a debate, it belongs in the trash heap.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
again, I'm NOT saying anything should be deleted, locked, scrubbed or that people should be banned. all I'm saying is that it is the duty of everyone here to keep the place down the path where the collective will takes it. We should call out, make fun of, and even ridicule those who stray WAY off or even go backwards by advocating hate, bigotry or ignorance. That kind of stuff doesn't belong in a debate, it belongs in the trash heap.
I would agree but you are guilty by your own defination when you call people homophobs and biggots...right ?
again, I'm NOT saying anything should be deleted, locked, scrubbed or that people should be banned. all I'm saying is that it is the duty of everyone here to keep the place down the path where the collective will takes it. We should call out, make fun of, and even ridicule those who stray WAY off or even go backwards by advocating hate, bigotry or ignorance. That kind of stuff doesn't belong in a debate, it belongs in the trash heap.
Redundant.
And now you're condoning the "calling out, making fun of, and ridicule" of people who "stray WAY off".
As long as you get to define what "stray WAY off" means, you ought to be very happy.
Again, this is the smiling new face of tyranny... just go with the flow... you know- where the "collective will takes" you...
Comments
Great, thats your opinion. (I never brought up personal attacks or disrespect - nothing to do with it)
I saw it differently, and so did many others.
btw, I vaguely recall that post but I think it was out of context in the thread. Obvious baiting. Very obvious.
On a side note, you may also have a very different understanding than many others, of the word troll in the land of the internets vs. real world.
This isnt about accepting someone else's opinion, its about how to deal with trolling.
I can accept a difference of opinion, but its taken some time to identify and ignore obvious trolling.
we are arguing over what trolling is...
:roll:
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Godfather.
look at it all
so many choose not to see the personal attacks and disrespect
yet they will call someone a troll or say that they are baiting
baiting is not an unpopular opinion it is just another's opinion.
yes obviously I have said I feel troll are the bullies,
criticizing, ridiculing, causing personal attacks which are much more
detrimental than someone stating an opinion that is unpopular
In my opinion
troll = a 'puddle full of detrimental' ...
it is those who are unkind and harmful to others...
just like the real world
You missed the point again. its the context, not the opinion.
If you look past the words and see the context it is a different thing than just opinion. Sorry you dont see that or understand it, so thats the last time I will say it.
How do you explain my other post about the abortion thread? Look at the context of things.
but my point perhaps you missed ...
As much or more than context is how we treat each other that is important. That ones opinion
can leave the context of a thread when it is not the popular rant at that particular moment
but related none the same to that person posting.
That being a troll is being harmful to both thread context and its posters.
It is as much... it is more those who continue to attack others personally.
That is a troll in my opinion...
It comes down to respecting each other whether we agree or not.
This a mature concept ... the gift of interaction
Quit trolling, you troll!
And there are certainly people around here that fit the bill of the internet definition as well.
And I think the spirit of the OPs post is a good one. Avoid the trolls, anyone you consider to be a troll. If you don't get anything valuable from the interaction, why stress about it?
lol..
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"we all have our own personal el guapo. for some, it may be the inability to read or hold a job. in our case, our el guapo is the real el guapo who is a big mean guy who wants to kill us..."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
meant to say they are NOT deliberately being trolls. if you're deliberately being a troll, you're just a troll... there's no need for the word "deliberately." that would be redundant.
yes, they are just stating their opinion. but when their opinion is founded on hate and bigotry and ethnocentrism, it produces the same effect for most readers here as someone who is trolling.
hence my point, they are NOT deliberately trolling, but producing the same effect as a troll.
any opinion not founded on rationality, logic and compassion shouldn't be treated like gold just because it is someone's *SUPPOSEDLY* original thought. that would be stupid. that would mean we couldn't throw ideas of the KKK and Hitler and communism in the trash heap. That may be hyperbole, but some peoples' opinions here are just as hateful or ignorant as those examples.
I have felt this when I have been trolled by others. The brunt of nasty smug remarks
put downs etc. very trolling indeed.
My opinion we must remain compassionate for all even those we don't agree with
and accept their right to their own gold thoughts ... lord knows everyone here
thinks theirs is
I have found many!
In my case I feel my opinions, often not based in logic nor rationality.
I feel others opinions as well even though I do not not necessarily share them.
I enjoy that, being free to feel, one learns a lot this way cause you never know
who you will learn what from...
best not to judge a book by its cover and even once read ....
there's always a chance for a sequel
we have a wonderful gift in each other most especially those we do not agree with
Hitler would very much approve of your deciding what ideas to "throw on the ash heap" and which to cherish.
This is how it starts...
This is what tyranny looks like, when it's reaching out to shake your hand for the first time...
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
that's good advice.
time for me to follow it...
oh, that's like poetry. pfft. i don't know why it is hard to understand that when people post stuff that's hateful and bigoted it is utter shite.
there IS line of what's acceptable and what's not. the homophobe who was making fun of the gay guy here a while back? not acceptable. promoting a view of US dominance and a tacit approval of murder? not acceptable. It doesn't need to be deleted or scrubbed, it just needs to be pointed out that it is lizard-brained rhetoric and produces the same effect as someone who's seriously trolling.
acceptable ? by whos standards....yours ? c'mon man this is the train and not all of us have the same views or opinions of the world as you see it.
Godfather
by the standards of humanity. malum in se. look it up.
Illegitimi non carborundum.
look it up.
I think I agree somewhat with Godfather here. Whilst I understand your position HSS, and I also find the things you mentioned reprehensible, if it is a reasonably presented opinion (and I don't know what these posts you mention were), it needs to be accepted as part of a debate. Some people may be homophobe but there is a way of saying this and you may choose to respond with your views. If one 'jumps' into a debate ref homosexuality for example and, completely out of context, says something short and flippant (eg all these f*** ask for a red hot poker.... - you get my drift) as their only contribution in order to antagonise, I would consider that trolling.
Already failed huh?
I fail.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I would agree but you are guilty by your own defination when you call people homophobs and biggots...right ?
Godfather.
Redundant.
And now you're condoning the "calling out, making fun of, and ridicule" of people who "stray WAY off".
As long as you get to define what "stray WAY off" means, you ought to be very happy.
Again, this is the smiling new face of tyranny... just go with the flow... you know- where the "collective will takes" you...
group hug
then again, i think people are smart enough to take the high road and not take the bait.
look at this thread, derailed on page 2.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."