There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
In the off chance Curtis reads this, I see the two main problems:
1) Crush of fans crippling the ticketing system, and
2) Fans frustrated about the time & stress of the ticketing ordeal because of #1 (experienced this with Alpine)
Why not have a lottery system where 10Cers sign up to a list during a week period, then 10C sends out notification to the "winners" who can buy the tickets at a designated presale time/date. 10C can either randomly select people to give them the go ahead to buy tickets, or simply sort by address and satisfy those who are closest to the venue. If there's still stress on the onsales, stagger the times. If not all the notified 10Cers don't purchase 10C's allotment of tickets, open it up to other 10Cers or simply release them to the promoter.
I think this is most fair and requires the least amount of outlay (perhaps some more time by 10C staff, I assume there's a database of 10C members). The demand/requests needs to be filtered to make the purchase of 2,000+ tickets manageable and not waste everyone's time. I mean, we're just buying concert tickets.
The postcard thing is stupid, don't do it.
nate, sorry but what if i a tenclub member of 15+ years gets shutout of the lottery? how does that appease me? maybe going back to the one set of tenclub seats per tour would be better.
anyone else think this 'dialogue' is a tad one sided?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
In the off chance Curtis reads this, I see the two main problems:
1) Crush of fans crippling the ticketing system, and
2) Fans frustrated about the time & stress of the ticketing ordeal because of #1 (experienced this with Alpine)
Why not have a lottery system where 10Cers sign up to a list during a week period, then 10C sends out notification to the "winners" who can buy the tickets at a designated presale time/date. 10C can either randomly select people to give them the go ahead to buy tickets, or simply sort by address and satisfy those who are closest to the venue. If there's still stress on the onsales, stagger the times. If not all the notified 10Cers don't purchase 10C's allotment of tickets, open it up to other 10Cers or simply release them to the promoter.
I think this is most fair and requires the least amount of outlay (perhaps some more time by 10C staff, I assume there's a database of 10C members). The demand/requests needs to be filtered to make the purchase of 2,000+ tickets manageable and not waste everyone's time. I mean, we're just buying concert tickets.
The postcard thing is stupid, don't do it.
nate, sorry but what if i a tenclub member of 15+ years gets shutout of the lottery? how does that appease me? maybe going back to the one set of tenclub seats per tour would be better.
First: You're alive!
Second: I've never viewed tickets as an entitlement ... you win some, you lose some. I'd definitely be upset if I got shut out especially if I was only going to one show, however I don't think that would be the case (10C helper monkeys could prevent that). I believe going back to the one show per member policy would upset a lot more people, but maybe have the limit be five? Ten? I can't imagine going to more than three shows a tour now unless I win Powerball and ditch the wife and baby.
People seem to be inventing problems to advocate change in the ticketing system. It's often limiting or discriminating based on some arbitrary definition of 'fairness'. Something like "For shows in Spain, western Europeans should get first shot at tickets but no more than 6 tickets unless the shows are on a Wednesday following a full moon in which case all Europeans (not including Russia and Turkey) would then get into a postcard based mail in lotto system where lower fan club numbers would be given a great chance of winning unless a track from Lost Dogs opens the previous show."
If the 10c used Ticketmaster and staggered the on sale times, the biggest complaints would be solved. Can't we just try what we know works?
True. But it's when the across the street fan misses out and the fan who travels from New York is in the building that the situation becomes unfair. I would never suggest travelling fans from countries constantly missed by PJ should be shut out... which goes to show this whole issue is almost impossible to work out to please everyone. Each of us has a different opinion on what's right and fair. Is the hardcore Touring Fan more important than someone rocking up to their first show?
I don't understand why people think that someone who loves the band enough to travel to another country to see PJ and who gets a ticket when a local doesn't is unfair. Those touring fans (most of them) don't have any more money than you do; they are just more dedicated... they don't spend money on the latest technological gadget, they spend their money on PJ... It takes a huge effort to tour, and touring fans are never left sitting outside a venue. Tix are always available if you really want one. So be careful before you scapegoat the touring fans (without whom you wouldn't have such varied setlists), when you, as a local, have the advantage. Go to the venue and stand in line for day-of-show releases, while the touring fans are still traveling from the last show... and touring fans are always hanging around the box office getting rid of extras for face value.
This band does appreciate their loyal touring fans, and so they will hopefully never go to a lottery type system, which would make it far more difficult to tour. Some of us remember the days when to tour, you had to scramble for tickets to every show. We are ever so grateful to this band for being so nice to their fans. 2 hours hitting F5? Nothing compared to what it used to be when TM was your only option for a ticket to multiple shows.
And there was nothing wrong with PJ's ticket system (I even congratulated them on the way the 2009 West Coast tour tix were handled, because it went so smoothly) until they started timing out the tix in March 2010. Yes, it might take you 20 minutes to an hour, but eventually, you got through to the last screen. Adding an "Express Checkout" button would fix that too. Simple fixes, keep the ticketing in house, and not random...
Seems like the manager had an answer for everything, but no real answers for the things that mattered. Asking US if we have any ideas for future PJ ticketing. Unbelievable. Ask some other managers of other bands who don't run into these problems.
And no good answer as to why they didn't announce the second Manchester show here.
Seems like a lot of deflecting responsibility. As in the buck doesn't stop with PJ management. For a band and a manager who positions themselves as really, truly caring about their fans, well, his answers sure didn't reflect that.
I agree. Why couldn't he just say something along the lines of "yeah, it's obvious communication is/has been an issue; and we're sorry that things got to this point and we're taking specific steps to improve that in the future".
Instead he basically came off as just, "we hired these guys, not our fault. any better ideas, let me know". OK, even if THIS time it wasn't 10C's fault, what about the mutliple times over the last several years where it was 10C's fault?
nobody expects perfection but he never gave a good answer to why people were kept in the dark for ~30 hours. if you were WAITING to hear from CrowdSurge, then TELL EVERYONE you're waiting to hear from CrowdSurge.
and the "any better ideas, let me know" is kinda insulting. Um, how bout the THOUSANDS of posts people have made with suggestions / ideas over the years?
Great of him to come on and take the heat, but to me most of his answers felt like the Big Banks at a Congressional hearing.
1. Why was there a 30 hour delay when no member of staff could inform the forum/fans of the ticketing problems?
2. Why then release an email at 00:30 UK time, when most fans were asleep, about lack of a pre-sale thus giving European fans absolutely no warning about lack of tenclub privileges?
3. Why on earth did the forum not then announce a 2nd night had been added to the Euro Tour?
4. A full 12 hours later why is the 2nd night still not formally announced on the bands own webpage/forum?
5. Why does Ed never return my calls about my proposed Crazy Golf day out with me, him, Dustin Hoffman and Heather Mills?
number 5 has still not been answered!
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
If you are disgusted with the band & 10c, stop buying anything from either. They need a wakeup call. Saboteur!!- --give me a break--Santa came down my chimney last night & had a few drinks with me!
I don't understand why people think that someone who loves the band enough to travel to another country to see PJ and who gets a ticket when a local doesn't is unfair. Those touring fans (most of them) don't have any more money than you do; they are just more dedicated... they don't spend money on the latest technological gadget, they spend their money on PJ... It takes a huge effort to tour, and touring fans are never left sitting outside a venue. Tix are always available if you really want one. So be careful before you scapegoat the touring fans (without whom you wouldn't have such varied setlists), when you, as a local, have the advantage. Go to the venue and stand in line for day-of-show releases, while the touring fans are still traveling from the last show... and touring fans are always hanging around the box office getting rid of extras for face value.
cause chances are that local show is the only show local fan can afford in these tough times or has the desire to go to. also the band would get more of a local vibe rather than a mish mosh of people. its cool people follow them if you got the means and aren't a dunce who goes into huge debt just to follow them.
also people who follow the band aren't any more bigger of a fan than a person who doesn't follow them. that's a very elitist way of thinking and sure as fuck isn't what the bands thinking has ever been. also fans who follow the band aren't the reason why the setlist are varied, they are varied cause the band doesn't wanna be a shit lame ass greatest hits act like a few bands that i won't slag on here.
btw-me personally i'd love to follow the band on a northeast or midwest leg of a tour, but i don't have means to so i'm stuck with just the local shows.
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
I don't understand why people think that someone who loves the band enough to travel to another country to see PJ and who gets a ticket when a local doesn't is unfair. Those touring fans (most of them) don't have any more money than you do; they are just more dedicated... they don't spend money on the latest technological gadget, they spend their money on PJ... It takes a huge effort to tour, and touring fans are never left sitting outside a venue. Tix are always available if you really want one. So be careful before you scapegoat the touring fans (without whom you wouldn't have such varied setlists), when you, as a local, have the advantage. Go to the venue and stand in line for day-of-show releases, while the touring fans are still traveling from the last show... and touring fans are always hanging around the box office getting rid of extras for face value.
cause chances are that local show is the only show local fan can afford in these tough times or has the desire to go to. also the band would get more of a local vibe rather than a mish mosh of people. its cool people follow them if you got the means and aren't a dunce who goes into huge debt just to follow them.
also people who follow the band aren't any more bigger of a fan than a person who doesn't follow them. that's a very elitist way of thinking and sure as fuck isn't what the bands thinking has ever been. also fans who follow the band aren't the reason why the setlist are varied, they are varied cause the band doesn't wanna be a shit lame ass greatest hits act like a few bands that i won't slag on here.
btw-me personally i'd love to follow the band on a northeast or midwest leg of a tour, but i don't have means to so i'm stuck with just the local shows.
If the band toured like it did in 1998, 2000 and 2003, then I could understand limiting Ten Club ticket sales to those in the immediate area first, and then selling remaining tickets outside of the region. But, since the band only tours the same cities in the same regions lately, and excludes a large chunk of the USA on its tours, a lot of members are forced to travel to NYC, Chicago, Philly, Boston or LA to see the band. The band has not been to Houston or Dallas since 2003, so I would be very upset if I were a Texan that I could never get fan club tickets since they are sold to locals first and the band doesn't come to my state anymore.
and the "any better ideas, let me know" is kinda insulting. Um, how bout the THOUSANDS of posts people have made with suggestions / ideas over the years?
I don't understand why people think that someone who loves the band enough to travel to another country to see PJ and who gets a ticket when a local doesn't is unfair. Those touring fans (most of them) don't have any more money than you do; they are just more dedicated... they don't spend money on the latest technological gadget, they spend their money on PJ... It takes a huge effort to tour, and touring fans are never left sitting outside a venue. Tix are always available if you really want one. So be careful before you scapegoat the touring fans (without whom you wouldn't have such varied setlists), when you, as a local, have the advantage. Go to the venue and stand in line for day-of-show releases, while the touring fans are still traveling from the last show... and touring fans are always hanging around the box office getting rid of extras for face value.
cause chances are that local show is the only show local fan can afford in these tough times or has the desire to go to. also the band would get more of a local vibe rather than a mish mosh of people. its cool people follow them if you got the means and aren't a dunce who goes into huge debt just to follow them.
also people who follow the band aren't any more bigger of a fan than a person who doesn't follow them. that's a very elitist way of thinking and sure as fuck isn't what the bands thinking has ever been. also fans who follow the band aren't the reason why the setlist are varied, they are varied cause the band doesn't wanna be a shit lame ass greatest hits act like a few bands that i won't slag on here.
btw-me personally i'd love to follow the band on a northeast or midwest leg of a tour, but i don't have means to so i'm stuck with just the local shows.
It's elitist to think that being born on one side of some arbitrary boundary entitles a PJ fan to 10c tickets while denying another fan that same opportunity.
What about fans in areas they never play? What about people who have to work the night of their local show? Should they get shut out of 10c tickets because they don't happen be available for their one local show? What about the 9 million people in NYC? How would anyone get 10c tickets to an MSG show that did not live there?
And FFS people, locals who get shut out can still tickets from the general sale. It's true!!! They do still sell non-10c tickets to PJ concerts. Crazy, right?
I don't understand why people think that someone who loves the band enough to travel to another country to see PJ and who gets a ticket when a local doesn't is unfair. Those touring fans (most of them) don't have any more money than you do; they are just more dedicated... they don't spend money on the latest technological gadget, they spend their money on PJ... It takes a huge effort to tour, and touring fans are never left sitting outside a venue. Tix are always available if you really want one. So be careful before you scapegoat the touring fans (without whom you wouldn't have such varied setlists), when you, as a local, have the advantage. Go to the venue and stand in line for day-of-show releases, while the touring fans are still traveling from the last show... and touring fans are always hanging around the box office getting rid of extras for face value.
cause chances are that local show is the only show local fan can afford in these tough times or has the desire to go to. also the band would get more of a local vibe rather than a mish mosh of people. its cool people follow them if you got the means and aren't a dunce who goes into huge debt just to follow them.
also people who follow the band aren't any more bigger of a fan than a person who doesn't follow them. that's a very elitist way of thinking and sure as fuck isn't what the bands thinking has ever been. also fans who follow the band aren't the reason why the setlist are varied, they are varied cause the band doesn't wanna be a shit lame ass greatest hits act like a few bands that i won't slag on here.
btw-me personally i'd love to follow the band on a northeast or midwest leg of a tour, but i don't have means to so i'm stuck with just the local shows.
It's elitist to think that being born on one side of some arbitrary boundary entitles a PJ fan to 10c tickets while denying another fan that same opportunity.
What about fans in areas they never play? What about people who have to work the night of their local show? Should they get shut out of 10c tickets because they don't happen be available for their one local show? What about the 9 million people in NYC? How would anyone get 10c tickets to an MSG show that did not live there?
And FFS people, locals who get shut out can still tickets from the general sale. It's true!!! They do still sell non-10c tickets to PJ concerts. Crazy, right?
I agree with everything you said. I will say though that getting a good ticket outside of through the fan club is starting to get difficult these days due to scalpers, season ticket holders and the other strange things that cause there to be a low % of tickets available at the time of the public on-sale.
If you don't get fan club tickets, then you are usually buying upper deck seats, or paying more on Stubhub/Ebay to get the better seats.
Comments
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
nate, sorry but what if i a tenclub member of 15+ years gets shutout of the lottery? how does that appease me? maybe going back to the one set of tenclub seats per tour would be better.
Back in 2000, a tenclubber picked one show and requested 2 tickets via e-mail to pick up at the show. Simple.
First: You're alive!
Second: I've never viewed tickets as an entitlement ... you win some, you lose some. I'd definitely be upset if I got shut out especially if I was only going to one show, however I don't think that would be the case (10C helper monkeys could prevent that). I believe going back to the one show per member policy would upset a lot more people, but maybe have the limit be five? Ten? I can't imagine going to more than three shows a tour now unless I win Powerball and ditch the wife and baby.
If the 10c used Ticketmaster and staggered the on sale times, the biggest complaints would be solved. Can't we just try what we know works?
I don't understand why people think that someone who loves the band enough to travel to another country to see PJ and who gets a ticket when a local doesn't is unfair. Those touring fans (most of them) don't have any more money than you do; they are just more dedicated... they don't spend money on the latest technological gadget, they spend their money on PJ... It takes a huge effort to tour, and touring fans are never left sitting outside a venue. Tix are always available if you really want one. So be careful before you scapegoat the touring fans (without whom you wouldn't have such varied setlists), when you, as a local, have the advantage. Go to the venue and stand in line for day-of-show releases, while the touring fans are still traveling from the last show... and touring fans are always hanging around the box office getting rid of extras for face value.
This band does appreciate their loyal touring fans, and so they will hopefully never go to a lottery type system, which would make it far more difficult to tour. Some of us remember the days when to tour, you had to scramble for tickets to every show. We are ever so grateful to this band for being so nice to their fans. 2 hours hitting F5? Nothing compared to what it used to be when TM was your only option for a ticket to multiple shows.
And there was nothing wrong with PJ's ticket system (I even congratulated them on the way the 2009 West Coast tour tix were handled, because it went so smoothly) until they started timing out the tix in March 2010. Yes, it might take you 20 minutes to an hour, but eventually, you got through to the last screen. Adding an "Express Checkout" button would fix that too. Simple fixes, keep the ticketing in house, and not random...
This is what I would like to see happen, at least in the U.S.
Although, Kelly did indicate that TM would not have been an option for all countries this time around.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I agree. Why couldn't he just say something along the lines of "yeah, it's obvious communication is/has been an issue; and we're sorry that things got to this point and we're taking specific steps to improve that in the future".
Instead he basically came off as just, "we hired these guys, not our fault. any better ideas, let me know". OK, even if THIS time it wasn't 10C's fault, what about the mutliple times over the last several years where it was 10C's fault?
nobody expects perfection but he never gave a good answer to why people were kept in the dark for ~30 hours. if you were WAITING to hear from CrowdSurge, then TELL EVERYONE you're waiting to hear from CrowdSurge.
and the "any better ideas, let me know" is kinda insulting. Um, how bout the THOUSANDS of posts people have made with suggestions / ideas over the years?
Great of him to come on and take the heat, but to me most of his answers felt like the Big Banks at a Congressional hearing.
number 5 has still not been answered!
I've been saying it for a while, the government is more transparent than PJ & the 10c. Scary, but true.
"dis"OCCUPY ten club
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
also people who follow the band aren't any more bigger of a fan than a person who doesn't follow them. that's a very elitist way of thinking and sure as fuck isn't what the bands thinking has ever been. also fans who follow the band aren't the reason why the setlist are varied, they are varied cause the band doesn't wanna be a shit lame ass greatest hits act like a few bands that i won't slag on here.
btw-me personally i'd love to follow the band on a northeast or midwest leg of a tour, but i don't have means to so i'm stuck with just the local shows.
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
If the band toured like it did in 1998, 2000 and 2003, then I could understand limiting Ten Club ticket sales to those in the immediate area first, and then selling remaining tickets outside of the region. But, since the band only tours the same cities in the same regions lately, and excludes a large chunk of the USA on its tours, a lot of members are forced to travel to NYC, Chicago, Philly, Boston or LA to see the band. The band has not been to Houston or Dallas since 2003, so I would be very upset if I were a Texan that I could never get fan club tickets since they are sold to locals first and the band doesn't come to my state anymore.
He said "better ideas", not that crap.
It's elitist to think that being born on one side of some arbitrary boundary entitles a PJ fan to 10c tickets while denying another fan that same opportunity.
What about fans in areas they never play? What about people who have to work the night of their local show? Should they get shut out of 10c tickets because they don't happen be available for their one local show? What about the 9 million people in NYC? How would anyone get 10c tickets to an MSG show that did not live there?
And FFS people, locals who get shut out can still tickets from the general sale. It's true!!! They do still sell non-10c tickets to PJ concerts. Crazy, right?
I agree with everything you said. I will say though that getting a good ticket outside of through the fan club is starting to get difficult these days due to scalpers, season ticket holders and the other strange things that cause there to be a low % of tickets available at the time of the public on-sale.
If you don't get fan club tickets, then you are usually buying upper deck seats, or paying more on Stubhub/Ebay to get the better seats.