Flipping v Buying to trade

stickman

sherm wrote:

This is an interesting topic. I sold a couple of shirts on here when I got back from Alpine Valley (for what I paid) and traded my hoodie because none of it fit me. I was lucky enough to be online yesterday at the time the white backspacer went back on sale, I was also unlucky enough to have UPS lose the posters that I shipped from Alpine on Sunday. Im still waiting for the whole UPS thing to shake out but a month from now if I start a thread about ISO Alpine Posters and one of the items that I have that someone may be interested in is the white backspacer then I may have to part with it. Hopefully people wont immediately jump to the conclusion that im a "flipper". I dont know if its always so easy to tell someones intent. I do think when people are ordering 4 or 5 of the same item though its obviously pretty shady.

To me the vinyl should ve worth $25 + shipping ($7.50) in trade. That is we are going by what others are alwys in favor of unless they have a flippable item. Those same people pm the mods and waaaaaa waaaaa to them when others are supposedly flipping an item they could not get. Then selling a sports themed shirt they got last noght for $100.00.


Waaaa waaaaa I didn't get a backpack. Waaaa waaa I ordered six white backspacer lp's for me and my friends and they only let me have one. Waaaaaa waaaa waaaaa..... The sense of entitlement around here is atrocious!

sherm

I hadnt been on the board in a couple of years until about a week before the alpine shows. I didnt even know the lost dogs forum existed until after I got home and saw that people were looking for shirts. Im all for helping each other out and bypassing the whole ebay situation, which sucks. Ive paid too much for posters on there too many times. As far as the sense of entitlement goes, the shit I was reading last night blew my mind. I think alot of people just get lost in this madness. Its easy to do. I dont reply much but its sure easy to find myself following some of those threads when I could be doing something a little more productive.

theserialthrilla

if you want more then one item..all you need to do is take out another membership at $25

i have never bough anything from this club with the thought of making money from it nor have i ever sold anything i have bought from this club ..and i only have one membership :P

but your not stop the flippers..

dimitrispearljam

theserialthrilla wrote:

but your not stop the flippers..

its a fuckin start!!!!

Bergfall

I feel this can be summed up pretty easily...
if you do it here, it's mostly ok, cause we get to harass you,
if you do the Ebay way, you suck ;-)

We are a protective community, and I love it,
but there is always a thin line between that and being too self-righteous...

drewdawgq

Buying one item with the intention of trading it is not even in the same league as flipping. The intent of flipping is solely to make profit without regard to who is buying the item or the fairness of the price. It is malicious and deceitful. Flippers are like used car salesmen. Buying multiple limited items to collect "trading chips" is similar to flipping but not quite as bad. The person doing this gets their own personal copy of the item and has plenty of stock to trade away for other hard-to-find goods. They have nothing to lose and have taken advantage of the system. When we are limited to only one copy of the item (eg, White BS vinyl), buying it with the intention of trading is simply the result of being at the right place at the right time. The person trading it will lose their only copy but gain something they didn't have before. If it's a fair trade, the person on the receiving end is getting something they wanted and perhaps giving up something that doesn't mean as much to them. It's practically a win-win situation. IMO, buying one item with the intention of trading for another similarly rare item is ok.

stickman

drewdawgq wrote:

Buying one item with the intention of trading it is not even in the same league as flipping. The intent of flipping is solely to make profit without regard to who is buying the item or the fairness of the price. It is malicious and deceitful. Flippers are like used car salesmen. Buying multiple limited items to collect "trading chips" is similar to flipping but not quite as bad. The person doing this gets their own personal copy of the item and has plenty of stock to trade away for other hard-to-find goods. They have nothing to lose and have taken advantage of the system. When we are limited to only one copy of the item (eg, White BS vinyl), buying it with the intention of trading is simply the result of being at the right place at the right time. The person trading it will lose their only copy but gain something they didn't have before. If it's a fair trade, the person on the receiving end is getting something they wanted and perhaps giving up something that doesn't mean as much to them. It's practically a win-win situation. IMO, buying one item with the intention of trading for another similarly rare item is ok.

drewdawg then you must have missed the whole point then brother. This whole thing stems from people who bought multiple copies of BS White Vinyl and then in the end they were only allowed one copy. The people are pissed. If you were lucky enough to get a backpack and you choose to trade it for a Lost Dogs Vinyl that is on you, not right but on you. If you bought 3 of them and were doing that, well that is a bit messed up. I full well know there was a limit on them people.

shep

This is a touchy subject for a couple of reasons... however I feel the need to chime in with my own two cents.... :shock:

IMO, buying for the purpose of trading is the equivalent of flipping, because 99% of the time the person is buying the item because they believe it to be worth much more than the price of what they paid for it. Your average person who buys "trade bait" focuses on the "limited edition" aspect of the item, hoping it's something that the 10C will sell out of quickly. Most people do not want to buy "trade bait" that will have to sit on a shelf 5-10 years before it has a real increase in value.... they want to buy the items 10C is going to sell out of quickly and they can then turn around and trade for something that has a market value of significantly more than what they originally paid for their item.

For example - take the person who, as soon as the BS white vinyl disappeared from the store, offered it up to trade for the Klausen Hamilton S/N Variant. The price of the poster: $120. The price of the vinyl: $25. Now I'm sure the person offering the vinyl thought they were offering anyone willing to trade a good deal; as we all know, these BS white vinyls have regularly fetched $800+ on that unnamed auction website.... but really, how is this not flipping? You're trying to trade something you paid $25 for for something that someone else paid $120 for.... that's almost a 500% profit margin! And this isn't just one example... this is how 99% of the people who buy "trade bait" function.

People need to stop buying things for "trade bait" because, ultimately, your doing the same thing that a flipper is doing: you are (1) preventing people who actually want the item for their own personal use from having it and (2) not looking to trade the item for something of equal value for what you just paid.

That's my two cents. And that will stay my 2 cents until I see someone offer to trade their BS white vinyl for another $25 item in the store...

(P.S. Sorry to really focus on the white vinyl, but it's just the most recent example...)

ezekiel rocks

dimitrispearljam wrote:

ezekiel rocks wrote:

If you keep it at one per member then it will still drive the market up because the item is limited; meaning that there isn't enough to go around for everyone. Pearl jam can never make enough items to satisfy everyone. Someone always loses out, thus always creating a secondary market. Plus, you have those folks that are not members and/or check the thread as often as others do. I used to check the thread once every month and then later realized that I missed out on a bunch of great stuff.

if 5000 copies goes to 5000 members is different than 5000 copies goes to 300 people..
the item will be more cheap if u have 5000 candidates for sell a product than 300

But when is your scenario ever the case on limited stuff and/or posters and/or most of the stuff sold through the 10C? You are comparing apples to oranges.

dimitrispearljam

ezekiel rocks wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

ezekiel rocks wrote:

If you keep it at one per member then it will still drive the market up because the item is limited; meaning that there isn't enough to go around for everyone. Pearl jam can never make enough items to satisfy everyone. Someone always loses out, thus always creating a secondary market. Plus, you have those folks that are not members and/or check the thread as often as others do. I used to check the thread once every month and then later realized that I missed out on a bunch of great stuff.

if 5000 copies goes to 5000 members is different than 5000 copies goes to 300 people..
the item will be more cheap if u have 5000 candidates for sell a product than 300

But when is your scenario ever the case on limited stuff and/or posters and/or most of the stuff sold through the 10C? You are comparing apples to oranges.

i dont know about apples and oranges,for sure i know what happens when more 10c members have the chance to get an item than items going only to a few people who want to flip them

pearljim

Carey wrote:

I was just wondering about this same concept. For example, I was able to buy a copy of Backspacer white vinyl and I intend to hang on to it! But, I am also the single mom of a 2 and 4 year old, and I can't exactly count on their father. So if it ever came down to making rent or feeding my kids, you'd better believe I would sell it. Hope I don't get kicked out for admitting it, but it's the honest truth. Would I feel badly about it? Absolutely. Would that keep me from doing it? Nope.

Taking care of family is always first and if anyone thinks differently they are fools.

Jim

elwayvedder

everyone here on both sides have valid points but from seeing in another thread where people should be reported for selling something that is their's to do with? That's a little rough isn't it? Who are we to report someone for selling something that is their's? I mean if I want to sell mine, raffle it off to charity, or serve my kids breakfast on it, its up to me and no one else. I bought it. If I want to run my car off a cliff, i can because its mine, I bought it.

This is different in my opinion than the backpack. For the white vinyl, it never said "Not for resale" etc. I believe anyway. Anyway, that's my 2 cents and I will sit back and enjoy watching the great points from both sides carry on!

cojobo

In my opinion, I think as long as 10c limits their merchandise to 1 per member for the first week and then they open it up to multiples with any leftover stock that I have no problem. I think flipping only involves people who buy multiples to sell, so if we give a chance for those who want the item get one, then the flippers wont really have anyone to sell to (until years later when the item is rare again and people who weren't members want one - but that is impossible to control)

On that note, if we are really knit-picking, what about people who still have any sealed vinyl for sale - there is no way they were not intending on saving it to make a profit as they would have opened it and played it if it was bought to listen to. So should all sealed vinyl be banned from being sold on the forum? I doubt many people would agree to that. I would say people selling on here is much better than on eBay from a buyer's perspective.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

let's take my example for example. I bought all the EV goodies when Uke Songs came out, the vinyl, the cd, the deluxe book, all of it. All of it was because I wanted it. I had no idea what, if anything, would go up in value. These things are a crapshoot, and I've never bought PJ/EV merch for the purpose of making any profit anyway, so it didn't matter to me. I opened all of when I got it not caring if it would be worth anything later.

But, then I saw that the deluxe songbook was going for insane prices on eBay. I didn't know why, I didn't realize it was so limited. I guess I was lucky to get one. Then I thought, "if they are worth that much, maybe I could trade it for a vinyl I can't afford, like Lost Dogs or LO2L". This was a while after I bought the songbook, but not No Code long, obviously, it came out this summer. I realized I'd rather have some good vinyl than a book. So I started a thread to trade it. No bites, but I still did it, not thinking it was flipping. Although, I did put a disclaimer in the first post that if anyone thought I was flipping, I'd gladly take it down. No one saw it that way, I guess.

My original intention was to keep the book, but then the value rose, and I saw an opportunity to upgrade my vinyl collection with ones that won't be reissued, which I can't afford. Is that wrong?

Hugh Freaking Dillon

cojobo wrote:

In my opinion, I think as long as 10c limits their merchandise to 1 per member for the first week and then they open it up to multiples with any leftover stock that I have no problem.

this is exactly what I thought of after this all went down too. I think it would be a great way to do things.

PJ-Cubs

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

let's take my example for example. I bought all the EV goodies when Uke Songs came out, the vinyl, the cd, the deluxe book, all of it. All of it was because I wanted it. I had no idea what, if anything, would go up in value. These things are a crapshoot, and I've never bought PJ/EV merch for the purpose of making any profit anyway, so it didn't matter to me. I opened all of when I got it not caring if it would be worth anything later.

But, then I saw that the deluxe songbook was going for insane prices on eBay. I didn't know why, I didn't realize it was so limited. I guess I was lucky to get one. Then I thought, "if they are worth that much, maybe I could trade it for a vinyl I can't afford, like Lost Dogs or LO2L". This was a while after I bought the songbook, but not No Code long, obviously, it came out this summer. I realized I'd rather have some good vinyl than a book. So I started a thread to trade it. No bites, but I still did it, not thinking it was flipping. Although, I did put a disclaimer in the first post that if anyone thought I was flipping, I'd gladly take it down. No one saw it that way, I guess.

My original intention was to keep the book, but then the value rose, and I saw an opportunity to upgrade my vinyl collection with ones that won't be reissued, which I can't afford. Is that wrong?

In my opinion, this is far from flipping. You bought the item, got it home, looked at it and decided that you would rather have something else. Its not like you ordered it and then immediately put it up for trade once it was out of stock in the Goods section.

Mikee J

Reading all the opinions on here I think the main points are this. Flipping sucks, end of. Buying for trade is a little more complicated. I think to trade something that you haven't even got in the post yet suggests you had no intention of doing anything other than that. This I disagree with and see as bad as flipping. Trading something you have had, opened etc etc is OK. This is your right as the owner of the product, fair do's.

There have been some comments about people (like me) being Jealous or throwing the toys out the pram because of the White Vinyl issue. Personally I take it as an insult that someone buys something, then puts it up for trade before its even been shipped. Its basically putting up one finger to me and saying "fuck you". So I for one, will always see that as a bad thing to do to the other members on this board who buy things because they want to own something. There are, believe it or not, people who want to own PJ merch and play it, or read it or even (god forbid!) stick on the wall!

What I will say is this. Next time anyone buys something with the sole purpose of trading it. The item is limited and sells out, there are then people upset as they didn't get one and they see them being traded. Perhaps the right thing to do would be to post it as For Sale.. for face.

dimitrispearljam

Mikee J wrote:

Reading all the opinions on here I think the main points are this. Flipping sucks, end of. Buying for trade is a little more complicated. I think to trade something that you haven't even got in the post yet suggests you had no intention of doing anything other than that. This I disagree with and see as bad as flipping. Trading something you have had, opened etc etc is OK. This is your right as the owner of the product, fair do's.

There have been some comments about people (like me) being Jealous or throwing the toys out the pram because of the White Vinyl issue. Personally I take it as an insult that someone buys something, then puts it up for trade before its even been shipped. Its basically putting up one finger to me and saying "fuck you". So I for one, will always see that as a bad thing to do to the other members on this board who buy things because they want to own something. There are, believe it or not, people who want to own PJ merch and play it, or read it or even (god forbid!) stick on the wall!

What I will say is this. Next time anyone buys something with the sole purpose of trading it. The item is limited and sells out, there are then people upset as they didn't get one and they see them being traded. Perhaps the right thing to do would be to post it as For Sale.. for face.

was time for me to say...

WELL SAID...

pdalowsky

found a flipper....

auction link removed by Admin

go get him boys

its sealed too....intention?

Mikee J

Wasn't aware these had just sold out from the goods section.