From what I've seen most if not all of the protesters are being very peaceful and civilized. It's their right if they want to protest. At least they are not destroying shit like those in Europe were. At least not yet anyway. I can totally understand some if their frustration. Having tens of thousands of dollars in loans and not being able to find a job, especially in the field you went to school for.
This has been going on for along time. Where the blame falls I'm not really sure. But I do think a lot of people think that it's all bcos of capitalism when in fact it's crony capitalism. Don't people think if the Feds lowered the capital gains tax on corporations these jobs would come back ? And I also think if people took the time to look and see who's pulling all the strings and whos in bed with wall street they might be a little surprised.
you take the loan, go to school and incur the debt.
then you get a job making enough money to reapay the loan and then everybody lives happily ever after.
the reality is such:
you fight tooth and nail to get that student loan, because the government is making it harder and harder to get a loan, and the government is giving out less grants.
you go to school and graduate and do everything you are supposed to do.
you enter an non-existant work force. you can not find a job in your field so you end up waiting tables or doing something in the service industry where you barely make enough money to survive.
then the bank comes in and expects their $500 a month (and that is on the low side) and if you can't pay it you are fucked. you are fucked, and nobody else is. the banks always get their money. always.
where are the jobs?
where are the jobs the republicans promised? i know it is apparerntly a priority for them that they will get to shortly after the repeal obamacare and get jesus in public school and insure tax cuts for the wealthy, but it is still on the short list of priorities... :roll: why are they against the stimulus/jobs bill that they voted for before?
the long and short of it, the system is fucked. it is predatory capitalism, and the game is rigged in favor of the banks.
your whole life you are told "you can't be anything without an education" and people work hard to get into school and they come out of it owing nearly 3 times their annual salary to a bank. according to a few people around here it sounds like the story should be "you kids should aim low, don't fuck yourself by going to college..."
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I just wonder what schools and what degrees people are getting where they are leaving school with so much debt.
I left school with $0 in debt and it wasn't because mommy and daddy paid for everything.
I think there are really a couple of issues here...first, there is obviously no promise of jobs when you graduate. That is silly. But, I do think some of our fine universities are doing kids a disservice through the choice in programs they have. It's fine if someone want to study something in particular, but they should have a frank discussion up front with the university regarding job placement rate and what types of jobs it has been. There are a lot of worthless degrees out there...well...worthless in that they won't help you get that first job.
Secondly, the job market is awful right now obviously. The economy is in the shitter. It only makes sense that we take a look at the students trying to enter the workforce during this time and see if there is anything that can be done to delay their repayment or even reduce it some.
Oh really? I should have included the "Dude you have no clue" and then the dumbass comment about the other poster and republicans? That would have added such value to be seen again. Please. You quote stood alone and it's a sick thing to always try to blame your own decisions and actions and choices on others and find someone else to pay for all of your decisions, actions, choices.
you take the loan, go to school and incur the debt.
then you get a job making enough money to reapay the loan and then everybody lives happily ever after.
the reality is such:
you fight tooth and nail to get that student loan, because the government is making it harder and harder to get a loan, and the government is giving out less grants.
you go to school and graduate and do everything you are supposed to do.
you enter an non-existant work force. you can not find a job in your field so you end up waiting tables or doing something in the service industry where you barely make enough money to survive.
then the bank comes in and expects their $500 a month (and that is on the low side) and if you can't pay it you are fucked. you are fucked, and nobody else is. the banks always get their money. always.
where are the jobs?
where are the jobs the republicans promised? i know it is apparerntly a priority for them that they will get to shortly after the repeal obamacare and get jesus in public school and insure tax cuts for the wealthy, but it is still on the short list of priorities... :roll: why are they against the stimulus/jobs bill that they voted for before?
the long and short of it, the system is fucked. it is predatory capitalism, and the game is rigged in favor of the banks.
your whole life you are told "you can't be anything without an education" and people work hard to get into school and they come out of it owing nearly 3 times their annual salary to a bank. according to a few people around here it sounds like the story should be "you kids should aim low, don't fuck yourself by going to college..."
I suppose I'm missing something here, but it sounds like your argument is "the banks are crooked, so I should get a free education!" You throw in some jabs at repubs and commentary about obama's healthcare plan to confuse, obfuscate, and side track...but I fail to see where your argument goes beyond my paraphrasing above.
Anyhow, we seem to be offtopic. IF those videos represent the whole situation, then those cops are fucking dbags with a major power trip / insecurity complex. That womant that got dragged through the police barrier? Fucked up.
On the other hand, the other vid that was posted about the two morons with a camera, baiting the cop with "fuck you" gestures and words...those guys were dbags in their own right. You could see the cop's initial reaction is fear as he moves backward. Frankly I can see how he felt threatened in that situation.
you take the loan, go to school and incur the debt.
then you get a job making enough money to reapay the loan and then everybody lives happily ever after.
the reality is such:
you fight tooth and nail to get that student loan, because the government is making it harder and harder to get a loan, and the government is giving out less grants.
you go to school and graduate and do everything you are supposed to do.
you enter an non-existant work force. you can not find a job in your field so you end up waiting tables or doing something in the service industry where you barely make enough money to survive.
then the bank comes in and expects their $500 a month (and that is on the low side) and if you can't pay it you are fucked. you are fucked, and nobody else is. the banks always get their money. always.
where are the jobs?
where are the jobs the republicans promised? i know it is apparerntly a priority for them that they will get to shortly after the repeal obamacare and get jesus in public school and insure tax cuts for the wealthy, but it is still on the short list of priorities... :roll: why are they against the stimulus/jobs bill that they voted for before?
the long and short of it, the system is fucked. it is predatory capitalism, and the game is rigged in favor of the banks.
your whole life you are told "you can't be anything without an education" and people work hard to get into school and they come out of it owing nearly 3 times their annual salary to a bank. according to a few people around here it sounds like the story should be "you kids should aim low, don't fuck yourself by going to college..."
I suppose I'm missing something here, but it sounds like your argument is "the banks are crooked, so I should get a free education!" You throw in some jabs at repubs and commentary about obama's healthcare plan to confuse, obfuscate, and side track...but I fail to see where your argument goes beyond my paraphrasing above.
Anyhow, we seem to be offtopic. IF those videos represent the whole situation, then those cops are fucking dbags with a major power trip / insecurity complex. That womant that got dragged through the police barrier? Fucked up.
On the other hand, the other vid that was posted about the two morons with a camera, baiting the cop with "fuck you" gestures and words...those guys were dbags in their own right. You could see the cop's initial reaction is fear as he moves backward. Frankly I can see how he felt threatened in that situation.
Watch this documentary to see what college in the US has become. You guessed it, another bubble that is set to burst in the not-too-distant future.
But back on topic - Police are supposed to protect our rights as individuals, including our right to protest-- not forcefully snuff them out. Of course if they are acting in self-defense, or if the protestors are trampling the rights of others, force may be necessary. Most of the time, force is NOT necessary-- there is some serious abuse going on down on Wall Street right now, and the cops abusing people need to be fired. I truly hate how almost no one in government is ever held accountable for their actions. On the positive side, it seems like a lot of the police down there are also in support of what these people are doing. They have the right idea.
Law enforcement needs to recognize that they have taken an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States as well as state and local laws which are compliant under that document. This is their sole reason for existence.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,087
Kunstler's take on OWS. Some good points here IMO:
"Here Come the OWSers!
By James Howard Kunstler
on October 3, 2011 8:24 AM
All last week across the media landscape, in pod, blog, flat-screen, and crunkly old newsprint columns, fatuous professional observers complained that the Occupy Wall Street marchers "have no clear agenda" or "can't articulate their positions." What impertinent horseshit. I saw a statement on one OWSer's sign that said it all:
$70,000 College Debt
$12,000 Medical Bills
I'm 22
Where's My Bailout?
What part of that is unclear to interlocutors of what we called "the establishment" back in the day? That would be the day of the Vietnam War and the Aquarian Upsurge. One difference being that in 1968 we at least had some solidarity in the older generation coming from figures of gravity like Senators Robert Kennedy (bumped off), Eugene McCarthy, J. William Fullbright, George McGovern, Rev Martin Luther King (bumped off), and even one US Attorney General, Ramsey Clark. Today, the entire "establishment" is a clueless, hopeless blob of self-interested, craven opportunism. Even the arty fringe - the people who pretend to be an avant-garde - are nothing but narcissistic self-branding operations masquerading as culture leaders.
The worst offender this past week was the prating empty vessel Nicholas Kristoff at The New York Times who affected to offer the OWSers his own tidy agenda of nit-picky, arcane tax reforms (e.g "Close the 'carried interest' and 'founders' stock' loopholes") and limp-dick banking regulations (e.g. "[move] ahead with Basel III capital requirements"). David Plotz and his Gen X sidekicks at the Slate Political Podcast were equally mystified. I have some heartier suggestions: bring the full weight of the RICO act and the federal anti-fraud statutes down on Lloyd Blankfein, Jamie Dimon, Brian Moynihan, Angelo Mozilo, and a host of other impudent schmekels still at large in their world of Escalade limos and Gulfstream vistas. Or, if that's just too difficult, how about a handy lamppost and about 40 feet of stout nylon cord?
It is cosmically ironic, of course, that the same generation of Boomer-hippies that ran in the streets and marched through the maze of service roads around the Pentagon has become a new "establishment" more obtuse, feckless, greedy and mendacious than the one they battled with over 40 years ago. I guess they just don't see that their time has come to get right with reality - or get shoved aside and trampled. The essence of the OWSer's argument is pretty simple: they've got a raw deal; somebody dealt them a bad hand; someone ran their society into a ditch and not a goddammed one of the older generation will set in motion the machinery to correct the situation, or even acknowledge it.
At the apex of this new establishment is the Baby Boomer's moral trophy president: Barack Obama, whose election made the Boomers feel good about themselves - while they preceded to loot the national treasury's accumulated capital, and then reach forward a few generations to rob their legacy, too. I haven't heard Nicholas Kristoff (or any of his colleagues at The New York Times) complain about Mr. Obama's stupendous inattention to the crimes of Wall Street, or to the dereliction of his proconsuls in the SEC and the Department of Justice. I'd at least send somebody to hold a mirror under Eric Holder's nostrils to see if he is actually alive.
For my money, the OWSers have plenty to yell about. Apart from the crimes and turpitudes of their elders, the younger generation hasn't even been prepared for the massive change in reality that these times are heaving them into. If it was me out there, I'd conclude that I'd better make up the future on my own, with no help from my parent's generation. In fact, that future is rushing toward all of us so cold, hard, and fresh even in this autumn season that it might splatter the banking establishment - and the global economy - like a bug on a windshield. The OWSers have a front row seat down there in lower Manhattan. The financial gangrene (thank you Zero Hedge) is not just seeping anymore, it's blowing through the arteries of the money underworld like fracking fluid. The damage can't be contained. Let the Arabs have spring. The OWSers of America own the fall. Rock on OWSers and don't let the "pigs" (as we used to call them) get you down."
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
I have no clue about the "police brutality"... I'm seeing two sides of the story. Clearly, the police should not be brutalizing. But, clearly the protesters should remain 100% peaceful. Who strayed from that? None of us truly know... outside of snip-its from bias media sources like MSNBC and FOX.
Outside of this, I sincerely wonder what they are "protesting"? Do they even know?
Regardless of what it is, I will say this much. I'll bet this is just the beginning. 3/6/12 months from now this will be commonplace. And all the sheep who continue to pretend that their political party or ideology will solve these issues will be standing in line with the next stone. This won't end, it will only escalate.
This is not a fucking sports game. Democrats are clueless. Republicans are clueless. These protesters are clueless. People here are clueless. The worst people are the ideologues who blindly follow one ideology without really know the economic consequences of it. I'd rather see someone who's uneducated and listless than a fervent moron who thinks they are educated and is so vested in their ideology that they will never even consider taking a bird's eye view. These are the idiots who are down there protesting stuff they don't even understand. Maybe there's a side of these protests that are righteous, but I'm betting half the people there don't know the righteous aspect.
My hope:
People here and there will simple educate themselves on Keynesian economics and learn how it's destroying our country. This is all so fucking predictable. Protests are going to do squat.
Outside of this, I sincerely wonder what they are "protesting"? Do they even know?
See Kunstler, above. Yes, they know.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
Outside of this, I sincerely wonder what they are "protesting"? Do they even know?
See Kunstler, above. Yes, they know.
So, according to you and that difficult to read drivel, they are protesting "costs" that they paid for?
Are they going to protest the cost of their pot next, or alcohol, or indie music? Are they trying to say that government should be paying for the student loans and medical bill costs? Are they getting at the idea of moral hazard or are they really trying to say the government should also bail them out? There's an enormous distinction, which gets to my point. They, and perhaps you, may not know it.
Is it they feel they should be entitled to wiping away their costs (student loans/medical bills) or are they protesting the government using Keynesian economics to try to stimulate the economy (via bailouts and stimulus plans)?
the occupy movement appears to be taking shape and broadening across the country. i for one find this effort energizing but need to understand the message better (and plan to do so). hell, houston has 300+ attending its first rally this thursday.
go on their network of sites, it's advanced pretty fast.
San Diego Sports Arena - Oct 25, 2000 MGM Grand - Jul 6, 2006 Cox Arena - Jul 7, 2006 New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival - May 1, 2010 Alpine Valley Music Theater - Sep 3-4 2011 Made In America, Philly - Sep 2, 2012 EV, Houston - Nov 12-13, 2012 Dallas-November 2013 OKC-November 2013 ACL 2-October 2014 Fenway Night 1, August 2016 Wrigley, Night 1 August 2018 Fort Worth, Night 1 September 2023 Fort Worth, Night 2 September 2023 Austin, Night 1 September 2023 Austin, Night 2 September 2023
The thing with the protests, one will find on both sides,
protestors and law enforcement, negative energy.
Let's do battle to get my point across, out of control, antagonist jerks,
putting it kindly. Those who want a fight.... filled with hate. Put that in a crowd
and there is a set up for disaster.
I for one won't be brutalized by either side, I will be no where near the protests.
There will be bloodshed, perhaps much worse, the laws and camps are readied to stifle
any real movement.
People must maintain, remain positive, have hope, be civil, hang onto their freedoms
VOTE
and above all else remember it's only money and not worth dying over.
If one of these young people had died during this protest,
whether caused by an over zealous protestor or law enforcement
how tragic that would be and unnecessary.
Save the fight, save it for the fight for freedom.... hopefully that is not coming,
but that is worth dying for, not the economy or money or the rich getting richer
none of that matters in the end. IMO
Save the fight, save it for the fight for freedom.... hopefully that is not coming,
but that is worth dying for, not the economy or money or the rich getting richer
none of that matters in the end. IMO
Why wait for this to happen? Why not stand up now? Before things get worse.....and in my opinion it will.
Save the fight, save it for the fight for freedom.... hopefully that is not coming,
but that is worth dying for, not the economy or money or the rich getting richer
none of that matters in the end. IMO
Why wait for this to happen? Why not stand up now? Before things get worse.....and in my opinion it will.
I'm a mother I would not want my child dying over student loans.
As far as things getting worse, for me, that would be violence.
And I agree much worse it will get.
And again what are we standing up for??
The fact that there are no jobs for the grads?
The economy sucks and the billionaires get richer?
Sounds to me like a lot of little people will get hurt with nothing solved
nor changed.
Answers to the problems at hand is what we need and I don't think those are found
at a protest. IMO.
Protests are more like 'here is the problem I'm pissed do something about it'
at least that is how I see them.
Also kind of a charged powder keg right now, easy to lose sight of reason
in the midst of emotion.
i posted this in the other thread, so i though i would put it here too. not so much about police brutality, but the interviewer pretty much got verbally abused, so it kind of fits...
protester owns fox news interviewer in this unaired video...
i like how he said that he liked that fox if finally paying attention to the issues that the other 99% of the population is paying attention to...
i can see why fox didn't air this segment on greta van sustern's show...
[Answers to the problems at hand is what we need and I don't think those are found
at a protest. IMO.
Protests are more like 'here is the problem I'm pissed do something about it'
at least that is how I see them.
Also kind of a charged powder keg right now, easy to lose sight of reason
in the midst of emotion.
respectfully, i believe your wrong, history has proven time and time again that a courageous citizen or citizenry can spark positive social/political change. we (americans) are just not used to this sort of uprising over the last 40 years or so since civil rights/vietnam protests WERE succesful.
San Diego Sports Arena - Oct 25, 2000 MGM Grand - Jul 6, 2006 Cox Arena - Jul 7, 2006 New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival - May 1, 2010 Alpine Valley Music Theater - Sep 3-4 2011 Made In America, Philly - Sep 2, 2012 EV, Houston - Nov 12-13, 2012 Dallas-November 2013 OKC-November 2013 ACL 2-October 2014 Fenway Night 1, August 2016 Wrigley, Night 1 August 2018 Fort Worth, Night 1 September 2023 Fort Worth, Night 2 September 2023 Austin, Night 1 September 2023 Austin, Night 2 September 2023
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,087
So, according to you and that difficult to read drivel...
Merde! Comment pouvez-vous dire que de M. Kunstler? Blasphémateur!!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
I think there are really a couple of issues here...first, there is obviously no promise of jobs when you graduate. That is silly. But, I do think some of our fine universities are doing kids a disservice through the choice in programs they have. It's fine if someone want to study something in particular, but they should have a frank discussion up front with the university regarding job placement rate and what types of jobs it has been. There are a lot of worthless degrees out there...well...worthless in that they won't help you get that first job.
Would you like to see all graduate programs scrapped except the hard sciences, engineering, economics, business studies, computer science, e.t.c.?
Do you think there's no place in this world for the arts and humanities? Should English literature, history, and philosophy, e.t.c be wiped from the curriculum?
The thing with the protests, one will find on both sides,
protestors and law enforcement, negative energy.
Let's do battle to get my point across, out of control, antagonist jerks,
putting it kindly. Those who want a fight.... filled with hate. Put that in a crowd
and there is a set up for disaster.
I for one won't be brutalized by either side, I will be no where near the protests.
There will be bloodshed, perhaps much worse, the laws and camps are readied to stifle
any real movement.
People must maintain, remain positive, have hope, be civil, hang onto their freedoms
VOTE
and above all else remember it's only money and not worth dying over.
If one of these young people had died during this protest,
whether caused by an over zealous protestor or law enforcement
how tragic that would be and unnecessary.
Save the fight, save it for the fight for freedom.... hopefully that is not coming,
but that is worth dying for, not the economy or money or the rich getting richer
none of that matters in the end. IMO
Sorry, but your 'do nothing', 'love everybody' attitude has no place in the real World. None of the freedoms people enjoy today came from people sitting on their asses while allowing themselves to be fucked by those in power.
Save the fight, save it for the fight for freedom...remember it's only money and not worth dying over
They are fighting for freedom. They're fighting for freedom from corruption, and freedom to have an education without being screwed by the banks and corporations.
As for anyone dying, nobody has died during these protests. So your point is redundant. You're simply trying to justify apathy and indolence, while once again sounding like Yoda.
Oh really? I should have included the "Dude you have no clue" and then the dumbass comment about the other poster and republicans? That would have added such value to be seen again. Please. You quote stood alone and it's a sick thing to always try to blame your own decisions and actions and choices on others and find someone else to pay for all of your decisions, actions, choices.
He explained his position perfectly well on the first page of this thread.
Just in case you're confused: this thread didn't begin on page three.
As US student loan debt nears $1tn, it's time for the banks that stole these young people's future to do the right thing
Robert Applebaum
guardian.co.uk, Monday 3 October 2011
As the Occupy Wall Street protest enters its third straight week in New York and continues spreading all across the country, what is abundantly clear is that "the other 99%" – as opposed to the super-wealthy 1% who've been coddled for decades under the failed economic premise that cutting their taxes and providing them with countless tax shelters, loopholes and other breaks will "trickle down" to the masses – are simply fed up with the status quo. So they are doing the one thing within their power to make their voices heard.
The Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Act fell far short of addressing the practices and behavior that lead to the near-collapse of the world economy. Corporations are sitting on record levels of cash, but are refusing to hire. Personal debt, including mortgages, credit cards and especially student loan debt have reached astronomical levels. All this is true, yet Washington, DC and the bankers on Wall Street seem tone deaf to the needs of the people.
For two and a half years, I have been advocating for a new way of stimulating economic growth from the bottom-up – a "trickle-up" approach to rebuilding the economy that reflects the realities of the 21st century via the campaign Forgiving Student Loan Debt. The argument is simple: relieving middle-class people of their educational debts would enable them to begin spending money in ailing sectors of the economy, start businesses and families and buy homes – that is, to have the "American Dream" that seems more and more out of reach with each passing day.
For the first time in history, total student loan debt recently surpassed total credit card debt in the US: current and former students collectively owe approximately $946bn in student loan debt, with no sign of this accumulation slowing down. In fact, it's projected to exceed $1tn within the year. Student loans have been stripped of nearly all basic consumer protections that every other type of debt enjoys, including bankruptcy protections and statutes of limitations. So, while you can have your business, credit card, mortgage and even your gambling debts discharged or restructured in bankruptcy court, student loan debt is with you for life – and sometimes beyond.
By turning education into a commodity where the students must personally bear the full costs of an educational system that, in fact, benefits all of society, not just the students themselves, we've shifted the ever-increasing burden of skyrocketing tuition costs down the socio-economic ladder onto those who can least afford to shoulder them. Couple that with a job market that's been utterly decimated by the irresponsibility and greed of those at the very top, the underlying reasons for the Occupy Wall Street protests start to come into focus.
If the Federal Reserve can hand out over $16tn in loans, at little to no interest, to the very institutions that caused the financial collapse in the first place, why must average Americans borrow money at upwards of 8% or more just to obtain an education?
How can we expect the housing market ever to improve when those we generally rely upon to purchase homes – college grads and professionals – are buried under tens of thousands of dollars or more in student loan debt, from which there is almost no escape?
If education is "the great equaliser" it's always touted to be, then why have over 432,000 people signed a petition in favor of student loan forgiveness as a means of economic stimulus? In the two and a half years that I've been working on this issue, I have yet to come across a single person who doesn't want to pay back what they actually borrowed (as opposed to three, four or five times the sum they borrowed); but they simply don't have the means to do so.
For more than 30 years, the rich have gotten richer, the poor have gotten poorer and the middle class has been nearly squeezed out of existence. Forgiving student loan debt would not only provide for a sustained economic stimulus over the course of the next 20-30 years by allowing educated Americans to use the money productively – rather than have to spend it on repaying several times the amount they borrowed to obtain a degree that no longer has the same value it once did. That would not only grow the economy, but it would also serve as a reaffirmation that an education is actually worth pursuing.
The American taxpayers bailed out Wall Street for their recklessness. It's time for Wall Street to do right by the American people who did absolutely nothing wrong, but who feel punished every day.
The thing with the protests, one will find on both sides,
protestors and law enforcement, negative energy.
Let's do battle to get my point across, out of control, antagonist jerks,
putting it kindly. Those who want a fight.... filled with hate. Put that in a crowd
and there is a set up for disaster.
I for one won't be brutalized by either side, I will be no where near the protests.
There will be bloodshed, perhaps much worse, the laws and camps are readied to stifle
any real movement.
People must maintain, remain positive, have hope, be civil, hang onto their freedoms
VOTE
and above all else remember it's only money and not worth dying over.
If one of these young people had died during this protest,
whether caused by an over zealous protestor or law enforcement
how tragic that would be and unnecessary.
Save the fight, save it for the fight for freedom.... hopefully that is not coming,
but that is worth dying for, not the economy or money or the rich getting richer
none of that matters in the end. IMO
Sorry, but your 'do nothing', 'love everybody' attitude has no place in the real World. None of the freedoms people enjoy today came from people sitting on their asses while allowing themselves to be fucked by those in power.
Save the fight, save it for the fight for freedom...remember it's only money and not worth dying over
They are fighting for freedom. They're fighting for freedom from corruption, and freedom to have an education without being screwed by the banks and corporations.
As for anyone dying, nobody has died during these protests. So your point is redundant. You're simply trying to justify apathy and indolence, while once again sounding like Yoda.
I'd rather not wait until someone dies over student loans :?
They are not fighting for freedom in my opinion.
I would have to say my post spoke no where of love for everyone ... not that I see.
I think perhaps you think that is what I am always saying and so you don't listen.
Guess love doesn't strike a chord with you.
Yoda's pretty cute though and I think wise so thank you for that much
It is anything but apathy. Choose our battles wisely we must and be prepared and powerful
and a strong loud voice. That is success. Having backing from those in power
and with some economic clout would help too. Very organized.
Protests like these I am not much for because of the threat of the innocent
being injured or worse, I prefer voicing in other ways.
Right now these will escalate because of emotions and yes someone could die.
Having children in this age group with their entire lives ahead of them that hits way too
close to home.
[Answers to the problems at hand is what we need and I don't think those are found
at a protest. IMO.
Protests are more like 'here is the problem I'm pissed do something about it'
at least that is how I see them.
Also kind of a charged powder keg right now, easy to lose sight of reason
in the midst of emotion.
respectfully, i believe your wrong, history has proven time and time again that a courageous citizen or citizenry can spark positive social/political change. we (americans) are just not used to this sort of uprising over the last 40 years or so since civil rights/vietnam protests WERE succesful.
Correct we are not used to this and there are a bunch of hotheads
hanging about these days not hippies filled with love and respect for life,
fighting a war on the other side of the world.
America is full of people wanting to retaliate not speak for change.
Angry people who want someone to pay but who will pay are not those who should ...
and they will pay dearly.
I remember the riots in 68 in Milwaukee ... I don't want see people die.
It would be a shootout now making those riots look like nothing.
Back then their were no camps to throw the unruly and innocent in.
Let's not let stuff get out of control, stay calm and civil but unfortunately this is not
what everyone wants.
I'd rather not wait until someone dies over student loans :?
They are not fighting for freedom in my opinion.
I would have to say my post spoke no where of love for everyone ... not that I see.
I think perhaps you think that is what I am always saying and so you don't listen.
Guess love doesn't strike a chord with you.
Yoda's pretty cute though and I think wise so thank you for that much
It is anything but apathy. Choose our battles wisely we must and be prepared and powerful
and a strong loud voice. That is success. Having backing from those in power
and with some economic clout would help too. Very organized.
Protests like these I am not much for because of the threat of the innocent
being injured or worse, I prefer voicing in other ways.
Right now these will escalate because of emotions and yes someone could die.
Having children in this age group with their entire lives ahead of them that hits way too
close to home.
Someone could die, and down the years many people have died fighting for many of the rights and privileges that we enjoy today. But that doesn't mean we should just sit on our asses and repeat vacuous phrases like 'Love and let live and love' from our comfy armchairs.
1% of the population is taking the other 99% for a ride. The fact that some of the 99%'rs are standing up to this and making their voices heard is admirable. Of course there are some among the 99% who don't like to see anyone rocking the boat and think that the 1% has their best interests at heart. These people are functionaries. Their job is to watch t.v and do as they're told. The World couldn't function the way it does without them. So what? Fuck these people. It's the students and the poor who have been made to feel the brunt of the economic crises that was caused by the rich bankers - the 1% - and so it's only natural that it's these same people who have been taking to the streets in England, and America, e.t.c. and demanding that the 1%'rs be held accountable.
But someone might die, therefore they should all go home and watch t.v like good obedient citizens.
I'd rather not wait until someone dies over student loans :?
They are not fighting for freedom in my opinion.
I would have to say my post spoke no where of love for everyone ... not that I see.
I think perhaps you think that is what I am always saying and so you don't listen.
Guess love doesn't strike a chord with you.
Yoda's pretty cute though and I think wise so thank you for that much
It is anything but apathy. Choose our battles wisely we must and be prepared and powerful
and a strong loud voice. That is success. Having backing from those in power
and with some economic clout would help too. Very organized.
Protests like these I am not much for because of the threat of the innocent
being injured or worse, I prefer voicing in other ways.
Right now these will escalate because of emotions and yes someone could die.
Having children in this age group with their entire lives ahead of them that hits way too
close to home.
Someone could die, and down the years many people have died fighting for many of the rights and privileges that we enjoy today. But that doesn't mean we should just sit on our asses and repeat vacuous phrases like 'Love and let live and love' from our comfy armchairs.
1% of the population is taking the other 99% for a ride. The fact that some of the 99%'rs are standing up to this and making their voices heard is admirable. Of course there are some among the 99% who don't like to see anyone rocking the boat and think that the 1% has their best interests at heart. These people are functionaries. Their job is to watch t.v and do as they're told. The World couldn't function the way it does without them. So what? Fuck these people. It's the students and the poor who have been made to feel the brunt of the economic crises that was caused by the rich bankers - the 1% - and so it's only natural that it's these same people who have been taking to the streets in England, and America, e.t.c. and demanding that the 1%'rs be held accountable.
But someone might die, therefore they should all go home and watch t.v like good obedient citizens.
Are you in the front of the line protesting? or are you asking others to do so?
I am for peace and smart strategic moves not half assed protests that could lead to bloodshed.
One wrong action by a hothead and many could get hurt.
I am also for compromise, working out something with the student loans that
is doable. This hopefully will happen.
Also, again, I never said in this post 'live and let live and love'
you are not listening, I get that, you have an opinion of me.
But thanks for remembering my mantra that touches my heart and that is not sarcasm ...
I am for peace and smart strategic moves not half assed protests that could lead to bloodshed.
One wrong action by a hothead and many could get hurt.
Either it's a half assed protest, in which case they'll be no bloodshed, or it will escalate into something more confrontational, in which case there may well be bloodshed.
So which do you prefer?
Also, again, I never said in this post 'live and let live and love'
you are not listening, I get that, you have an opinion of me.
But thanks for remembering my mantra that touches my heart and that is not sarcasm ...
Your 'mantra' has no place in the real world. You try to convince us that you possess some higher understanding and that you 'choose the path of non-judgement' while at the same time accusing anyone who actually tries to change things as being filled with 'hate'
Let's do battle to get my point across, out of control, antagonist jerks,
putting it kindly. Those who want a fight.... filled with hate.
This thread drew attention to the fact that the New York Police have been beating the protestors, but you chime in here with a post praising the police with a and telling us that we should not forget they are heroes. Then when someone disagrees with you we get the following:
People only like people with shared mindset I guess
I think the problem we have here is that you keep posting your psuedo-religious mantra's and wishy-washy dictum's in a section of this message board that deals with politics and activism.
cast no stones... and live and let live this everyone can do
everyone learns eventually all in good time
Bombarding people with patronising, psuedo religious nonsense on a political section of a message board is not going to win you any disciples. I think you'd be far better off on a street corner with a sandwich board.
Just my humble opinion.
Anyway, this thread has now been successfully derailed, much like the thread on gays in the military was derailed a few days ago.
Comments
Whose problem is it then?
Really, are we to this point now?
This has been going on for along time. Where the blame falls I'm not really sure. But I do think a lot of people think that it's all bcos of capitalism when in fact it's crony capitalism. Don't people think if the Feds lowered the capital gains tax on corporations these jobs would come back ? And I also think if people took the time to look and see who's pulling all the strings and whos in bed with wall street they might be a little surprised.
the system is set up as such..
you take the loan, go to school and incur the debt.
then you get a job making enough money to reapay the loan and then everybody lives happily ever after.
the reality is such:
you fight tooth and nail to get that student loan, because the government is making it harder and harder to get a loan, and the government is giving out less grants.
you go to school and graduate and do everything you are supposed to do.
you enter an non-existant work force. you can not find a job in your field so you end up waiting tables or doing something in the service industry where you barely make enough money to survive.
then the bank comes in and expects their $500 a month (and that is on the low side) and if you can't pay it you are fucked. you are fucked, and nobody else is. the banks always get their money. always.
where are the jobs?
where are the jobs the republicans promised? i know it is apparerntly a priority for them that they will get to shortly after the repeal obamacare and get jesus in public school and insure tax cuts for the wealthy, but it is still on the short list of priorities... :roll: why are they against the stimulus/jobs bill that they voted for before?
the long and short of it, the system is fucked. it is predatory capitalism, and the game is rigged in favor of the banks.
your whole life you are told "you can't be anything without an education" and people work hard to get into school and they come out of it owing nearly 3 times their annual salary to a bank. according to a few people around here it sounds like the story should be "you kids should aim low, don't fuck yourself by going to college..."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I left school with $0 in debt and it wasn't because mommy and daddy paid for everything.
I think there are really a couple of issues here...first, there is obviously no promise of jobs when you graduate. That is silly. But, I do think some of our fine universities are doing kids a disservice through the choice in programs they have. It's fine if someone want to study something in particular, but they should have a frank discussion up front with the university regarding job placement rate and what types of jobs it has been. There are a lot of worthless degrees out there...well...worthless in that they won't help you get that first job.
Secondly, the job market is awful right now obviously. The economy is in the shitter. It only makes sense that we take a look at the students trying to enter the workforce during this time and see if there is anything that can be done to delay their repayment or even reduce it some.
Oh really? I should have included the "Dude you have no clue" and then the dumbass comment about the other poster and republicans? That would have added such value to be seen again. Please. You quote stood alone and it's a sick thing to always try to blame your own decisions and actions and choices on others and find someone else to pay for all of your decisions, actions, choices.
Anyhow, we seem to be offtopic. IF those videos represent the whole situation, then those cops are fucking dbags with a major power trip / insecurity complex. That womant that got dragged through the police barrier? Fucked up.
On the other hand, the other vid that was posted about the two morons with a camera, baiting the cop with "fuck you" gestures and words...those guys were dbags in their own right. You could see the cop's initial reaction is fear as he moves backward. Frankly I can see how he felt threatened in that situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE
Watch this documentary to see what college in the US has become. You guessed it, another bubble that is set to burst in the not-too-distant future.
But back on topic - Police are supposed to protect our rights as individuals, including our right to protest-- not forcefully snuff them out. Of course if they are acting in self-defense, or if the protestors are trampling the rights of others, force may be necessary. Most of the time, force is NOT necessary-- there is some serious abuse going on down on Wall Street right now, and the cops abusing people need to be fired. I truly hate how almost no one in government is ever held accountable for their actions. On the positive side, it seems like a lot of the police down there are also in support of what these people are doing. They have the right idea.
Law enforcement needs to recognize that they have taken an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States as well as state and local laws which are compliant under that document. This is their sole reason for existence.
http://kunstler.com/blog/2011/10/here-c ... wsers.html
"Here Come the OWSers!
By James Howard Kunstler
on October 3, 2011 8:24 AM
All last week across the media landscape, in pod, blog, flat-screen, and crunkly old newsprint columns, fatuous professional observers complained that the Occupy Wall Street marchers "have no clear agenda" or "can't articulate their positions." What impertinent horseshit. I saw a statement on one OWSer's sign that said it all:
$70,000 College Debt
$12,000 Medical Bills
I'm 22
Where's My Bailout?
What part of that is unclear to interlocutors of what we called "the establishment" back in the day? That would be the day of the Vietnam War and the Aquarian Upsurge. One difference being that in 1968 we at least had some solidarity in the older generation coming from figures of gravity like Senators Robert Kennedy (bumped off), Eugene McCarthy, J. William Fullbright, George McGovern, Rev Martin Luther King (bumped off), and even one US Attorney General, Ramsey Clark. Today, the entire "establishment" is a clueless, hopeless blob of self-interested, craven opportunism. Even the arty fringe - the people who pretend to be an avant-garde - are nothing but narcissistic self-branding operations masquerading as culture leaders.
The worst offender this past week was the prating empty vessel Nicholas Kristoff at The New York Times who affected to offer the OWSers his own tidy agenda of nit-picky, arcane tax reforms (e.g "Close the 'carried interest' and 'founders' stock' loopholes") and limp-dick banking regulations (e.g. "[move] ahead with Basel III capital requirements"). David Plotz and his Gen X sidekicks at the Slate Political Podcast were equally mystified. I have some heartier suggestions: bring the full weight of the RICO act and the federal anti-fraud statutes down on Lloyd Blankfein, Jamie Dimon, Brian Moynihan, Angelo Mozilo, and a host of other impudent schmekels still at large in their world of Escalade limos and Gulfstream vistas. Or, if that's just too difficult, how about a handy lamppost and about 40 feet of stout nylon cord?
It is cosmically ironic, of course, that the same generation of Boomer-hippies that ran in the streets and marched through the maze of service roads around the Pentagon has become a new "establishment" more obtuse, feckless, greedy and mendacious than the one they battled with over 40 years ago. I guess they just don't see that their time has come to get right with reality - or get shoved aside and trampled. The essence of the OWSer's argument is pretty simple: they've got a raw deal; somebody dealt them a bad hand; someone ran their society into a ditch and not a goddammed one of the older generation will set in motion the machinery to correct the situation, or even acknowledge it.
At the apex of this new establishment is the Baby Boomer's moral trophy president: Barack Obama, whose election made the Boomers feel good about themselves - while they preceded to loot the national treasury's accumulated capital, and then reach forward a few generations to rob their legacy, too. I haven't heard Nicholas Kristoff (or any of his colleagues at The New York Times) complain about Mr. Obama's stupendous inattention to the crimes of Wall Street, or to the dereliction of his proconsuls in the SEC and the Department of Justice. I'd at least send somebody to hold a mirror under Eric Holder's nostrils to see if he is actually alive.
For my money, the OWSers have plenty to yell about. Apart from the crimes and turpitudes of their elders, the younger generation hasn't even been prepared for the massive change in reality that these times are heaving them into. If it was me out there, I'd conclude that I'd better make up the future on my own, with no help from my parent's generation. In fact, that future is rushing toward all of us so cold, hard, and fresh even in this autumn season that it might splatter the banking establishment - and the global economy - like a bug on a windshield. The OWSers have a front row seat down there in lower Manhattan. The financial gangrene (thank you Zero Hedge) is not just seeping anymore, it's blowing through the arteries of the money underworld like fracking fluid. The damage can't be contained. Let the Arabs have spring. The OWSers of America own the fall. Rock on OWSers and don't let the "pigs" (as we used to call them) get you down."
Outside of this, I sincerely wonder what they are "protesting"? Do they even know?
Regardless of what it is, I will say this much. I'll bet this is just the beginning. 3/6/12 months from now this will be commonplace. And all the sheep who continue to pretend that their political party or ideology will solve these issues will be standing in line with the next stone. This won't end, it will only escalate.
This is not a fucking sports game. Democrats are clueless. Republicans are clueless. These protesters are clueless. People here are clueless. The worst people are the ideologues who blindly follow one ideology without really know the economic consequences of it. I'd rather see someone who's uneducated and listless than a fervent moron who thinks they are educated and is so vested in their ideology that they will never even consider taking a bird's eye view. These are the idiots who are down there protesting stuff they don't even understand. Maybe there's a side of these protests that are righteous, but I'm betting half the people there don't know the righteous aspect.
My hope:
People here and there will simple educate themselves on Keynesian economics and learn how it's destroying our country. This is all so fucking predictable. Protests are going to do squat.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
So, according to you and that difficult to read drivel, they are protesting "costs" that they paid for?
Are they going to protest the cost of their pot next, or alcohol, or indie music? Are they trying to say that government should be paying for the student loans and medical bill costs? Are they getting at the idea of moral hazard or are they really trying to say the government should also bail them out? There's an enormous distinction, which gets to my point. They, and perhaps you, may not know it.
Is it they feel they should be entitled to wiping away their costs (student loans/medical bills) or are they protesting the government using Keynesian economics to try to stimulate the economy (via bailouts and stimulus plans)?
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
go on their network of sites, it's advanced pretty fast.
MGM Grand - Jul 6, 2006
Cox Arena - Jul 7, 2006
New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival - May 1, 2010
Alpine Valley Music Theater - Sep 3-4 2011
Made In America, Philly - Sep 2, 2012
EV, Houston - Nov 12-13, 2012
Dallas-November 2013
OKC-November 2013
ACL 2-October 2014
Fenway Night 1, August 2016
Wrigley, Night 1 August 2018
Fort Worth, Night 1 September 2023
Fort Worth, Night 2 September 2023
Austin, Night 1 September 2023
Austin, Night 2 September 2023
protestors and law enforcement, negative energy.
Let's do battle to get my point across, out of control, antagonist jerks,
putting it kindly. Those who want a fight.... filled with hate. Put that in a crowd
and there is a set up for disaster.
I for one won't be brutalized by either side, I will be no where near the protests.
There will be bloodshed, perhaps much worse, the laws and camps are readied to stifle
any real movement.
People must maintain, remain positive, have hope, be civil, hang onto their freedoms
VOTE
and above all else remember it's only money and not worth dying over.
If one of these young people had died during this protest,
whether caused by an over zealous protestor or law enforcement
how tragic that would be and unnecessary.
Save the fight, save it for the fight for freedom.... hopefully that is not coming,
but that is worth dying for, not the economy or money or the rich getting richer
none of that matters in the end. IMO
Why wait for this to happen? Why not stand up now? Before things get worse.....and in my opinion it will.
Clearly, you didn't watch the video in the OP...
As far as things getting worse, for me, that would be violence.
And I agree much worse it will get.
And again what are we standing up for??
The fact that there are no jobs for the grads?
The economy sucks and the billionaires get richer?
Sounds to me like a lot of little people will get hurt with nothing solved
nor changed.
Answers to the problems at hand is what we need and I don't think those are found
at a protest. IMO.
Protests are more like 'here is the problem I'm pissed do something about it'
at least that is how I see them.
Also kind of a charged powder keg right now, easy to lose sight of reason
in the midst of emotion.
it has become another tourist attraction...everyone else is just walking by w/out looking
btw...the whole block is beginning to stink a tad....(i'm serious)
protester owns fox news interviewer in this unaired video...
i like how he said that he liked that fox if finally paying attention to the issues that the other 99% of the population is paying attention to...
i can see why fox didn't air this segment on greta van sustern's show...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/0 ... 92406.html
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
respectfully, i believe your wrong, history has proven time and time again that a courageous citizen or citizenry can spark positive social/political change. we (americans) are just not used to this sort of uprising over the last 40 years or so since civil rights/vietnam protests WERE succesful.
MGM Grand - Jul 6, 2006
Cox Arena - Jul 7, 2006
New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival - May 1, 2010
Alpine Valley Music Theater - Sep 3-4 2011
Made In America, Philly - Sep 2, 2012
EV, Houston - Nov 12-13, 2012
Dallas-November 2013
OKC-November 2013
ACL 2-October 2014
Fenway Night 1, August 2016
Wrigley, Night 1 August 2018
Fort Worth, Night 1 September 2023
Fort Worth, Night 2 September 2023
Austin, Night 1 September 2023
Austin, Night 2 September 2023
Merde! Comment pouvez-vous dire que de M. Kunstler? Blasphémateur!!
Would you like to see all graduate programs scrapped except the hard sciences, engineering, economics, business studies, computer science, e.t.c.?
Do you think there's no place in this world for the arts and humanities? Should English literature, history, and philosophy, e.t.c be wiped from the curriculum?
Sorry, but your 'do nothing', 'love everybody' attitude has no place in the real World. None of the freedoms people enjoy today came from people sitting on their asses while allowing themselves to be fucked by those in power.
They are fighting for freedom. They're fighting for freedom from corruption, and freedom to have an education without being screwed by the banks and corporations.
As for anyone dying, nobody has died during these protests. So your point is redundant. You're simply trying to justify apathy and indolence, while once again sounding like Yoda.
He explained his position perfectly well on the first page of this thread.
Just in case you're confused: this thread didn't begin on page three.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -loan-debt
Here's a demand: forgive student loan debt
As US student loan debt nears $1tn, it's time for the banks that stole these young people's future to do the right thing
Robert Applebaum
guardian.co.uk, Monday 3 October 2011
As the Occupy Wall Street protest enters its third straight week in New York and continues spreading all across the country, what is abundantly clear is that "the other 99%" – as opposed to the super-wealthy 1% who've been coddled for decades under the failed economic premise that cutting their taxes and providing them with countless tax shelters, loopholes and other breaks will "trickle down" to the masses – are simply fed up with the status quo. So they are doing the one thing within their power to make their voices heard.
The Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Act fell far short of addressing the practices and behavior that lead to the near-collapse of the world economy. Corporations are sitting on record levels of cash, but are refusing to hire. Personal debt, including mortgages, credit cards and especially student loan debt have reached astronomical levels. All this is true, yet Washington, DC and the bankers on Wall Street seem tone deaf to the needs of the people.
For two and a half years, I have been advocating for a new way of stimulating economic growth from the bottom-up – a "trickle-up" approach to rebuilding the economy that reflects the realities of the 21st century via the campaign Forgiving Student Loan Debt. The argument is simple: relieving middle-class people of their educational debts would enable them to begin spending money in ailing sectors of the economy, start businesses and families and buy homes – that is, to have the "American Dream" that seems more and more out of reach with each passing day.
For the first time in history, total student loan debt recently surpassed total credit card debt in the US: current and former students collectively owe approximately $946bn in student loan debt, with no sign of this accumulation slowing down. In fact, it's projected to exceed $1tn within the year. Student loans have been stripped of nearly all basic consumer protections that every other type of debt enjoys, including bankruptcy protections and statutes of limitations. So, while you can have your business, credit card, mortgage and even your gambling debts discharged or restructured in bankruptcy court, student loan debt is with you for life – and sometimes beyond.
By turning education into a commodity where the students must personally bear the full costs of an educational system that, in fact, benefits all of society, not just the students themselves, we've shifted the ever-increasing burden of skyrocketing tuition costs down the socio-economic ladder onto those who can least afford to shoulder them. Couple that with a job market that's been utterly decimated by the irresponsibility and greed of those at the very top, the underlying reasons for the Occupy Wall Street protests start to come into focus.
If the Federal Reserve can hand out over $16tn in loans, at little to no interest, to the very institutions that caused the financial collapse in the first place, why must average Americans borrow money at upwards of 8% or more just to obtain an education?
How can we expect the housing market ever to improve when those we generally rely upon to purchase homes – college grads and professionals – are buried under tens of thousands of dollars or more in student loan debt, from which there is almost no escape?
If education is "the great equaliser" it's always touted to be, then why have over 432,000 people signed a petition in favor of student loan forgiveness as a means of economic stimulus? In the two and a half years that I've been working on this issue, I have yet to come across a single person who doesn't want to pay back what they actually borrowed (as opposed to three, four or five times the sum they borrowed); but they simply don't have the means to do so.
For more than 30 years, the rich have gotten richer, the poor have gotten poorer and the middle class has been nearly squeezed out of existence. Forgiving student loan debt would not only provide for a sustained economic stimulus over the course of the next 20-30 years by allowing educated Americans to use the money productively – rather than have to spend it on repaying several times the amount they borrowed to obtain a degree that no longer has the same value it once did. That would not only grow the economy, but it would also serve as a reaffirmation that an education is actually worth pursuing.
The American taxpayers bailed out Wall Street for their recklessness. It's time for Wall Street to do right by the American people who did absolutely nothing wrong, but who feel punished every day.
They are not fighting for freedom in my opinion.
I would have to say my post spoke no where of love for everyone ... not that I see.
I think perhaps you think that is what I am always saying and so you don't listen.
Guess love doesn't strike a chord with you.
Yoda's pretty cute though and I think wise so thank you for that much
It is anything but apathy. Choose our battles wisely we must and be prepared and powerful
and a strong loud voice. That is success. Having backing from those in power
and with some economic clout would help too. Very organized.
Protests like these I am not much for because of the threat of the innocent
being injured or worse, I prefer voicing in other ways.
Right now these will escalate because of emotions and yes someone could die.
Having children in this age group with their entire lives ahead of them that hits way too
close to home.
hanging about these days not hippies filled with love and respect for life,
fighting a war on the other side of the world.
America is full of people wanting to retaliate not speak for change.
Angry people who want someone to pay but who will pay are not those who should ...
and they will pay dearly.
I remember the riots in 68 in Milwaukee ... I don't want see people die.
It would be a shootout now making those riots look like nothing.
Back then their were no camps to throw the unruly and innocent in.
Let's not let stuff get out of control, stay calm and civil but unfortunately this is not
what everyone wants.
Someone could die, and down the years many people have died fighting for many of the rights and privileges that we enjoy today. But that doesn't mean we should just sit on our asses and repeat vacuous phrases like 'Love and let live and love' from our comfy armchairs.
1% of the population is taking the other 99% for a ride. The fact that some of the 99%'rs are standing up to this and making their voices heard is admirable. Of course there are some among the 99% who don't like to see anyone rocking the boat and think that the 1% has their best interests at heart. These people are functionaries. Their job is to watch t.v and do as they're told. The World couldn't function the way it does without them. So what? Fuck these people. It's the students and the poor who have been made to feel the brunt of the economic crises that was caused by the rich bankers - the 1% - and so it's only natural that it's these same people who have been taking to the streets in England, and America, e.t.c. and demanding that the 1%'rs be held accountable.
But someone might die, therefore they should all go home and watch t.v like good obedient citizens.
I am for peace and smart strategic moves not half assed protests that could lead to bloodshed.
One wrong action by a hothead and many could get hurt.
I am also for compromise, working out something with the student loans that
is doable. This hopefully will happen.
Also, again, I never said in this post 'live and let live and love'
you are not listening, I get that, you have an opinion of me.
But thanks for remembering my mantra that touches my heart and that is not sarcasm ...
No, but I support their actions, as I pointed out above.
Either it's a half assed protest, in which case they'll be no bloodshed, or it will escalate into something more confrontational, in which case there may well be bloodshed.
So which do you prefer?
Not by people sitting on their apathetic asses it won't. Apathy never got anyone anywhere.
Your 'mantra' has no place in the real world. You try to convince us that you possess some higher understanding and that you 'choose the path of non-judgement' while at the same time accusing anyone who actually tries to change things as being filled with 'hate'
This thread drew attention to the fact that the New York Police have been beating the protestors, but you chime in here with a post praising the police with a
I think the problem we have here is that you keep posting your psuedo-religious mantra's and wishy-washy dictum's in a section of this message board that deals with politics and activism.
Bombarding people with patronising, psuedo religious nonsense on a political section of a message board is not going to win you any disciples. I think you'd be far better off on a street corner with a sandwich board.
Just my humble opinion.
Anyway, this thread has now been successfully derailed, much like the thread on gays in the military was derailed a few days ago.
So it goes!