Occupy Wall Street and police brutality

blueandwhite

I've been reading this thread while listening to W.M.A.. It seems appropriate when you consider that these protests are taking place on Wall Street; the home of some of America's most entitled WMAs.

gimmesometruth27

pandora wrote:

I will give a shout out for our officers

when you need one and they are there for you
well, that is where appreciation for what they do hits you

they put their lives on the line everyday every moment
for another human being ... most are heroes

but they have a job to do and like the military they will do it.

did you watch the same videos i did? :?

these "policemen" being discussed in this thread don't need you to defend them. they need an attorney to defend them. in a COURT OF LAW!! :twisted:

pandora

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

pandora wrote:

I will give a shout out for our officers

when you need one and they are there for you
well, that is where appreciation for what they do hits you

they put their lives on the line everyday every moment
for another human being ... most are heroes

but they have a job to do and like the military they will do it.

did you watch the same videos i did? :?

these "policemen" being discussed in this thread don't need you to defend them. they need an attorney to defend them. in a COURT OF LAW!! :twisted:

well of course! ... agreed!

one bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch though
so...

I prefer to give a thumbs up
than dwell on negative, there is plenty of posts here doing just that ...
kind of redundant and obvious ...


you say I am defending them
really ?
you got that from my post ... :?

always important to reinforce that the majority are heroes
BUT
they also have a job to do and will do it.

Jeanwah

"The world's economy has been wrecked by these rapacious traders. Yet it is the protesters who are jailed." - Salman Rushdie on the arrest of 700 Occupy Wall Street protesters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXXeV95C ... ata_player

"...the police were responsible for shutting down the bridge and it was a trap to arrest all of us."



oh, and Pandora... you're being a troll and trying to bait Gimme. Which is against guidelines...

usamamasan1

I read the same report about the $130k in student debt. It's their fucking problem . They signed up for it. They can't afford it now??? :?
They said something about not wanting to have beans and rice again for dinner....
Well, neither do your creditors!
And what's wrong with beans and rice anyway?


Most people went bc rumor Radiohead was playing . Free shit always gets these types out in droves. Be it health care or a concert .

I heard the brutality claim was overblown. Typical in these left wing instances. It's in their playbook.

gimmesometruth27

usamamasan1 wrote:

I read the same report about the $130k in student debt. It's their fucking problem . They signed up for it. They can't afford it now??? :?
They said something about not wanting to have beans and rice again for dinner....
Well, neither do your creditors!
And what's wrong with beans and rice anyway?


Most people went bc rumor Radiohead was playing . Free shit always gets these types out in droves. Be it health care or a concert .

I heard the brutality claim was overblown. Typical in these left wing instances. It's in their playbook.

that school debt is "their fucking problem??"

dude you have no clue.

funny how you are sticking up for the banksters and blaming the people. you sound like a typical republican.

brianlux

usamamasan1 wrote:

I read the same report about the $130k in student debt. It's their fucking problem . They signed up for it. They can't afford it now??? :?
They said something about not wanting to have beans and rice again for dinner....
Well, neither do your creditors!
And what's wrong with beans and rice anyway?


Most people went bc rumor Radiohead was playing . Free shit always gets these types out in droves. Be it health care or a concert .

I heard the brutality claim was overblown. Typical in these left wing instances. It's in their playbook.

Hey, I'm with you man. I always show up for free shit- even if it means getting my head cracked open. :?

usamamasan1

Of course the student debt is their proeblem. They incurred it. Free will. Free country. Now pay up. If you can't, you won't get a loan on favorable terms going forward and shouldn't.
There are rules to the game. There are many ways to win (and no, you don't have to step on people to do so).
Funny on the moving train, when someone speaks their mind And it's not part of the majority, many say it's trolling and baiting.

WOOT!

brianlux

usamamasan1 wrote:

Funny on the moving train, when someone speaks their mind And it's not part of the majority, many say it's trolling and baiting.

WOOT!

Fair enough. Yes, we should respect everyone's right to their own opinion- especially mine Just kidding! But seriously, good call.

And also, changing subjects briefly, no one answered my "WOOT!" question. Is that what Eddie yells out at the end of "Severed Hand"? Sounds like it to me. Is that where you got the term? Is it used elsewhere- becoming common? Sometimes I get curious about little things like that- especially word things. Must be from watching lots of George Carlin.

pandora

People only like people with shared mindset I guess but I didn't see anyone trolling :?
How did we get to that :? confused

With a daughter who will have student loans when her schooling is done
it doesn't seem a problem if she can find a good job.
We know here is where the problem lies.

But it is a debt incurred and needs to be paid back perhaps with some compromise.

cincybearcat

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

that school debt is "their fucking problem??"

Whose problem is it then?

Really, are we to this point now?

WaveCameCrashin

From what I've seen most if not all of the protesters are being very peaceful and civilized. It's their right if they want to protest. At least they are not destroying shit like those in Europe were. At least not yet anyway. I can totally understand some if their frustration. Having tens of thousands of dollars in loans and not being able to find a job, especially in the field you went to school for.

This has been going on for along time. Where the blame falls I'm not really sure. But I do think a lot of people think that it's all bcos of capitalism when in fact it's crony capitalism. Don't people think if the Feds lowered the capital gains tax on corporations these jobs would come back ? And I also think if people took the time to look and see who's pulling all the strings and whos in bed with wall street they might be a little surprised.

gimmesometruth27

cincybearcat wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

that school debt is "their fucking problem??"

Whose problem is it then?

Really, are we to this point now?

don't partially quote me.

the system is set up as such..

you take the loan, go to school and incur the debt.

then you get a job making enough money to reapay the loan and then everybody lives happily ever after.

the reality is such:

you fight tooth and nail to get that student loan, because the government is making it harder and harder to get a loan, and the government is giving out less grants.

you go to school and graduate and do everything you are supposed to do.

you enter an non-existant work force. you can not find a job in your field so you end up waiting tables or doing something in the service industry where you barely make enough money to survive.

then the bank comes in and expects their $500 a month (and that is on the low side) and if you can't pay it you are fucked. you are fucked, and nobody else is. the banks always get their money. always.

where are the jobs?

where are the jobs the republicans promised? i know it is apparerntly a priority for them that they will get to shortly after the repeal obamacare and get jesus in public school and insure tax cuts for the wealthy, but it is still on the short list of priorities... :roll: why are they against the stimulus/jobs bill that they voted for before?

the long and short of it, the system is fucked. it is predatory capitalism, and the game is rigged in favor of the banks.

your whole life you are told "you can't be anything without an education" and people work hard to get into school and they come out of it owing nearly 3 times their annual salary to a bank. according to a few people around here it sounds like the story should be "you kids should aim low, don't fuck yourself by going to college..."

cincybearcat

I just wonder what schools and what degrees people are getting where they are leaving school with so much debt.

I left school with $0 in debt and it wasn't because mommy and daddy paid for everything.

I think there are really a couple of issues here...first, there is obviously no promise of jobs when you graduate. That is silly. But, I do think some of our fine universities are doing kids a disservice through the choice in programs they have. It's fine if someone want to study something in particular, but they should have a frank discussion up front with the university regarding job placement rate and what types of jobs it has been. There are a lot of worthless degrees out there...well...worthless in that they won't help you get that first job.

Secondly, the job market is awful right now obviously. The economy is in the shitter. It only makes sense that we take a look at the students trying to enter the workforce during this time and see if there is anything that can be done to delay their repayment or even reduce it some.

polaris_x

the whole thing needs to be blown up ... the game is totally rigged ...

cincybearcat

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

don't partially quote me.

Oh really? I should have included the "Dude you have no clue" and then the dumbass comment about the other poster and republicans? That would have added such value to be seen again. Please. You quote stood alone and it's a sick thing to always try to blame your own decisions and actions and choices on others and find someone else to pay for all of your decisions, actions, choices.

MotoDC

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

that school debt is "their fucking problem??"

Whose problem is it then?

Really, are we to this point now?

don't partially quote me.

the system is set up as such..

you take the loan, go to school and incur the debt.

then you get a job making enough money to reapay the loan and then everybody lives happily ever after.

the reality is such:

you fight tooth and nail to get that student loan, because the government is making it harder and harder to get a loan, and the government is giving out less grants.

you go to school and graduate and do everything you are supposed to do.

you enter an non-existant work force. you can not find a job in your field so you end up waiting tables or doing something in the service industry where you barely make enough money to survive.

then the bank comes in and expects their $500 a month (and that is on the low side) and if you can't pay it you are fucked. you are fucked, and nobody else is. the banks always get their money. always.

where are the jobs?

where are the jobs the republicans promised? i know it is apparerntly a priority for them that they will get to shortly after the repeal obamacare and get jesus in public school and insure tax cuts for the wealthy, but it is still on the short list of priorities... :roll: why are they against the stimulus/jobs bill that they voted for before?

the long and short of it, the system is fucked. it is predatory capitalism, and the game is rigged in favor of the banks.

your whole life you are told "you can't be anything without an education" and people work hard to get into school and they come out of it owing nearly 3 times their annual salary to a bank. according to a few people around here it sounds like the story should be "you kids should aim low, don't fuck yourself by going to college..."

I suppose I'm missing something here, but it sounds like your argument is "the banks are crooked, so I should get a free education!" You throw in some jabs at repubs and commentary about obama's healthcare plan to confuse, obfuscate, and side track...but I fail to see where your argument goes beyond my paraphrasing above.

Anyhow, we seem to be offtopic. IF those videos represent the whole situation, then those cops are fucking dbags with a major power trip / insecurity complex. That womant that got dragged through the police barrier? Fucked up.

On the other hand, the other vid that was posted about the two morons with a camera, baiting the cop with "fuck you" gestures and words...those guys were dbags in their own right. You could see the cop's initial reaction is fear as he moves backward. Frankly I can see how he felt threatened in that situation.

VINNY GOOMBA

MotoDC wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

don't partially quote me.

the system is set up as such..

you take the loan, go to school and incur the debt.

then you get a job making enough money to reapay the loan and then everybody lives happily ever after.

the reality is such:

you fight tooth and nail to get that student loan, because the government is making it harder and harder to get a loan, and the government is giving out less grants.

you go to school and graduate and do everything you are supposed to do.

you enter an non-existant work force. you can not find a job in your field so you end up waiting tables or doing something in the service industry where you barely make enough money to survive.

then the bank comes in and expects their $500 a month (and that is on the low side) and if you can't pay it you are fucked. you are fucked, and nobody else is. the banks always get their money. always.

where are the jobs?

where are the jobs the republicans promised? i know it is apparerntly a priority for them that they will get to shortly after the repeal obamacare and get jesus in public school and insure tax cuts for the wealthy, but it is still on the short list of priorities... :roll: why are they against the stimulus/jobs bill that they voted for before?

the long and short of it, the system is fucked. it is predatory capitalism, and the game is rigged in favor of the banks.

your whole life you are told "you can't be anything without an education" and people work hard to get into school and they come out of it owing nearly 3 times their annual salary to a bank. according to a few people around here it sounds like the story should be "you kids should aim low, don't fuck yourself by going to college..."

I suppose I'm missing something here, but it sounds like your argument is "the banks are crooked, so I should get a free education!" You throw in some jabs at repubs and commentary about obama's healthcare plan to confuse, obfuscate, and side track...but I fail to see where your argument goes beyond my paraphrasing above.

Anyhow, we seem to be offtopic. IF those videos represent the whole situation, then those cops are fucking dbags with a major power trip / insecurity complex. That womant that got dragged through the police barrier? Fucked up.

On the other hand, the other vid that was posted about the two morons with a camera, baiting the cop with "fuck you" gestures and words...those guys were dbags in their own right. You could see the cop's initial reaction is fear as he moves backward. Frankly I can see how he felt threatened in that situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE

Watch this documentary to see what college in the US has become. You guessed it, another bubble that is set to burst in the not-too-distant future.

But back on topic - Police are supposed to protect our rights as individuals, including our right to protest-- not forcefully snuff them out. Of course if they are acting in self-defense, or if the protestors are trampling the rights of others, force may be necessary. Most of the time, force is NOT necessary-- there is some serious abuse going on down on Wall Street right now, and the cops abusing people need to be fired. I truly hate how almost no one in government is ever held accountable for their actions. On the positive side, it seems like a lot of the police down there are also in support of what these people are doing. They have the right idea.

Law enforcement needs to recognize that they have taken an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States as well as state and local laws which are compliant under that document. This is their sole reason for existence.

brianlux

Kunstler's take on OWS. Some good points here IMO:

http://kunstler.com/blog/2011/10/here-c ... wsers.html

"Here Come the OWSers!
By James Howard Kunstler
on October 3, 2011 8:24 AM


All last week across the media landscape, in pod, blog, flat-screen, and crunkly old newsprint columns, fatuous professional observers complained that the Occupy Wall Street marchers "have no clear agenda" or "can't articulate their positions." What impertinent horseshit. I saw a statement on one OWSer's sign that said it all:


$70,000 College Debt
$12,000 Medical Bills
I'm 22
Where's My Bailout?


What part of that is unclear to interlocutors of what we called "the establishment" back in the day? That would be the day of the Vietnam War and the Aquarian Upsurge. One difference being that in 1968 we at least had some solidarity in the older generation coming from figures of gravity like Senators Robert Kennedy (bumped off), Eugene McCarthy, J. William Fullbright, George McGovern, Rev Martin Luther King (bumped off), and even one US Attorney General, Ramsey Clark. Today, the entire "establishment" is a clueless, hopeless blob of self-interested, craven opportunism. Even the arty fringe - the people who pretend to be an avant-garde - are nothing but narcissistic self-branding operations masquerading as culture leaders.
The worst offender this past week was the prating empty vessel Nicholas Kristoff at The New York Times who affected to offer the OWSers his own tidy agenda of nit-picky, arcane tax reforms (e.g "Close the 'carried interest' and 'founders' stock' loopholes") and limp-dick banking regulations (e.g. "[move] ahead with Basel III capital requirements"). David Plotz and his Gen X sidekicks at the Slate Political Podcast were equally mystified. I have some heartier suggestions: bring the full weight of the RICO act and the federal anti-fraud statutes down on Lloyd Blankfein, Jamie Dimon, Brian Moynihan, Angelo Mozilo, and a host of other impudent schmekels still at large in their world of Escalade limos and Gulfstream vistas. Or, if that's just too difficult, how about a handy lamppost and about 40 feet of stout nylon cord?
It is cosmically ironic, of course, that the same generation of Boomer-hippies that ran in the streets and marched through the maze of service roads around the Pentagon has become a new "establishment" more obtuse, feckless, greedy and mendacious than the one they battled with over 40 years ago. I guess they just don't see that their time has come to get right with reality - or get shoved aside and trampled. The essence of the OWSer's argument is pretty simple: they've got a raw deal; somebody dealt them a bad hand; someone ran their society into a ditch and not a goddammed one of the older generation will set in motion the machinery to correct the situation, or even acknowledge it.
At the apex of this new establishment is the Baby Boomer's moral trophy president: Barack Obama, whose election made the Boomers feel good about themselves - while they preceded to loot the national treasury's accumulated capital, and then reach forward a few generations to rob their legacy, too. I haven't heard Nicholas Kristoff (or any of his colleagues at The New York Times) complain about Mr. Obama's stupendous inattention to the crimes of Wall Street, or to the dereliction of his proconsuls in the SEC and the Department of Justice. I'd at least send somebody to hold a mirror under Eric Holder's nostrils to see if he is actually alive.
For my money, the OWSers have plenty to yell about. Apart from the crimes and turpitudes of their elders, the younger generation hasn't even been prepared for the massive change in reality that these times are heaving them into. If it was me out there, I'd conclude that I'd better make up the future on my own, with no help from my parent's generation. In fact, that future is rushing toward all of us so cold, hard, and fresh even in this autumn season that it might splatter the banking establishment - and the global economy - like a bug on a windshield. The OWSers have a front row seat down there in lower Manhattan. The financial gangrene (thank you Zero Hedge) is not just seeping anymore, it's blowing through the arteries of the money underworld like fracking fluid. The damage can't be contained. Let the Arabs have spring. The OWSers of America own the fall. Rock on OWSers and don't let the "pigs" (as we used to call them) get you down."

inlet13

I have no clue about the "police brutality"... I'm seeing two sides of the story. Clearly, the police should not be brutalizing. But, clearly the protesters should remain 100% peaceful. Who strayed from that? None of us truly know... outside of snip-its from bias media sources like MSNBC and FOX.

Outside of this, I sincerely wonder what they are "protesting"? Do they even know?

Regardless of what it is, I will say this much. I'll bet this is just the beginning. 3/6/12 months from now this will be commonplace. And all the sheep who continue to pretend that their political party or ideology will solve these issues will be standing in line with the next stone. This won't end, it will only escalate.

This is not a fucking sports game. Democrats are clueless. Republicans are clueless. These protesters are clueless. People here are clueless. The worst people are the ideologues who blindly follow one ideology without really know the economic consequences of it. I'd rather see someone who's uneducated and listless than a fervent moron who thinks they are educated and is so vested in their ideology that they will never even consider taking a bird's eye view. These are the idiots who are down there protesting stuff they don't even understand. Maybe there's a side of these protests that are righteous, but I'm betting half the people there don't know the righteous aspect.

My hope:

People here and there will simple educate themselves on Keynesian economics and learn how it's destroying our country. This is all so fucking predictable. Protests are going to do squat.