and solo Paul/Wings is much more my taste live than anything the Beatles ever did. (Yes, I just said that
What can I say? I think the Beatles are vastly overrated to begin with...(yes, I just said that!)...
But, all that aside, it was a great show.
1998-06-30 Minneapolis
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2 2018-06-18 London 1 2018-08-18 Wrigley 1 2018-08-20 Wrigley 2 2022-09-16 Nashville 2023-08-31 St. Paul 2023-09-02 St. Paul 2023-09-05 Chicago 1
6-16-03 St Paul 6-26-06 St Paul 6-27-06 St Paul 7-2-011 EV MPLS 9-3-011 Alpine 9-4-011 Alpine 9-22-012 Atlanta 7-19-013 Wrigley 10-9-014 Lincoln 10-14-014 Memphis 10-17-014 Moline 10-19-014 St Paul 10-22-014 Denver 9-26-015 New York City 8-20-016 Wrigley 8-22-016 Wrigley 8-13-018 Missoula 8-18-018 Wrigley 8-20-018 Wrigley 9-18-022 St. Louis
so more questions for the Minnesota folks from someone coming into the town for the show.
1 - is the Holiday Inn that is supposedly right across the street from the Xcel Center a good hotel to stay at? --haven't stayed there since the State High School tournament, like, 15 years ago and it's been renovated since. It'll be good because of it's location.
2 - good bars within walking distance of the Xcel Center? Yes, see below. Pub crawl being planned for Saturday night.
3 - Good area in Minneapolis for Saturday night life? good area with cool bars and food? easy to get cabs to and from St, Paul? Minneapolis has lots of good night life spots (NE MPLS, Uptown etc, but again, there will be a pub crawl Saturday night, starting at one end of west 7th (near the X) and ending at Amsterdam Bar (location of preparty on Sunday).
4 - best place to watch NFL football on sunday afternoon?
Lots of places will gave games on. Again, just about any of the bars on West 7th will have games on. Not sure which ones have NFL Sunday Ticket, but my experience is most bars do nowadays.
Hope that helps.
1998-06-30 Minneapolis
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2 2018-06-18 London 1 2018-08-18 Wrigley 1 2018-08-20 Wrigley 2 2022-09-16 Nashville 2023-08-31 St. Paul 2023-09-02 St. Paul 2023-09-05 Chicago 1
so more questions for the Minnesota folks from someone coming into the town for the show.
1 - is the Holiday Inn that is supposedly right across the street from the Xcel Center a good hotel to stay at? --haven't stayed there since the State High School tournament, like, 15 years ago and it's been renovated since. It'll be good because of it's location.
2 - good bars within walking distance of the Xcel Center? Yes, see below. Pub crawl being planned for Saturday night.
3 - Good area in Minneapolis for Saturday night life? good area with cool bars and food? easy to get cabs to and from St, Paul? Minneapolis has lots of good night life spots (NE MPLS, Uptown etc, but again, there will be a pub crawl Saturday night, starting at one end of west 7th (near the X) and ending at Amsterdam Bar (location of preparty on Sunday).
4 - best place to watch NFL football on sunday afternoon?
Lots of places will gave games on. Again, just about any of the bars on West 7th will have games on. Not sure which ones have NFL Sunday Ticket, but my experience is most bars do nowadays.
any particular team you are a fan of? Alary's in downtown St. Paul (long walk from Holiday Inn, but doable) is a Bears bar on Sunday afternoons and there is excellent eye candy for staff. But yes, there will be plenty of other bars on W. 7th that should have all the games too. If you are planning on going to Minneapolis at any point, there is a train (Green Line) that runs between the two cities that will get you there and back in about 45 minutes each way.
Chicago - 6/29/98
Indianapolis - 8/18/00
Champaign - 4/23/03
St. Paul - 6/26/06 (w/Petty)
St. Paul - 6/27/06 (w/Petty)
Chicago - 8/23/09
Minneapolis - 7/2/11 (Ed)
Alpine Valley (PJ20) - 9/3/11
Alpine Valley (PJ20) - 9/4/11
Wrigley - 7/19/13
Pittsburgh - 10/11/13
Buffalo - 10/12/13
Moline - 10/17/14
St. Paul - 10/19/14
Milwaukee - 10/20/14
Wrigley - 8/20/16
Wrigley - 8/22/16 Wrigley - 8/18/18 Wrigley - 8/20/18 St. Louis - 9/18/22 St. Paul 1 - 8/31/23 St. Paul 2 - 9/2/23 Chicago 1 - 9/5/23 Chicago 2 - 9/7/23 Wrigley - 8/29/24 Wrigley - 8/31/24
any particular team you are a fan of? Alary's in downtown St. Paul (long walk from Holiday Inn, but doable) is a Bears bar on Sunday afternoons and there is excellent eye candy for staff. But yes, there will be plenty of other bars on W. 7th that should have all the games too. If you are planning on going to Minneapolis at any point, there is a train (Green Line) that runs between the two cities that will get you there and back in about 45 minutes each way.
Eagles fan but they have a bye that weekend so really just relaxing watching. would like to see if vikings fans are crazy as us Northeast folks.
McGoverns is the best place for football. It's a Steelers bar, but that's usually just the upstairs portion
6-16-03 St Paul 6-26-06 St Paul 6-27-06 St Paul 7-2-011 EV MPLS 9-3-011 Alpine 9-4-011 Alpine 9-22-012 Atlanta 7-19-013 Wrigley 10-9-014 Lincoln 10-14-014 Memphis 10-17-014 Moline 10-19-014 St Paul 10-22-014 Denver 9-26-015 New York City 8-20-016 Wrigley 8-22-016 Wrigley 8-13-018 Missoula 8-18-018 Wrigley 8-20-018 Wrigley 9-18-022 St. Louis
No show is ever sold out. I'm sure their will be ticket scalpers selling for an arm and a leg outside the venue. So sad that some fans have to spend that much to see a show.
I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell.
-Christopher Walken
you're=you are
your=showing ownership
The truth has a well known liberal bias.
-Stephen Colbert
3 - Good area in Minneapolis for Saturday night life? good area with cool bars and food? easy to get cabs to and from St, Paul?
as someone else said, the green line train runs between mpls and st paul. take it to minneapolis and get off at the warehouse/hennepin stop and you're right in the middle of downtown minneapolis nightlife.
6-16-03 St Paul 6-26-06 St Paul 6-27-06 St Paul 7-2-011 EV MPLS 9-3-011 Alpine 9-4-011 Alpine 9-22-012 Atlanta 7-19-013 Wrigley 10-9-014 Lincoln 10-14-014 Memphis 10-17-014 Moline 10-19-014 St Paul 10-22-014 Denver 9-26-015 New York City 8-20-016 Wrigley 8-22-016 Wrigley 8-13-018 Missoula 8-18-018 Wrigley 8-20-018 Wrigley 9-18-022 St. Louis
The Beatles knocked down so many doors in pop music, to say they are overrated is borderline not an opinion but a lie. :-)
Here's what I ask: did THEY knock down doors that would've have been knocked down otherwise? Consider the times they were in...the 60s were an era of "death" in so many ways, that if not for them, isn't a fair statement to think that someone else would've/could've done whatever they did? The era oozed explosion, rejection, revolution...at some point, wouldn't someone else have been the thing that they were? I think it's certainly possible, and if that's the case, it makes me wonder if it was anything special that they did, or whether they were the lucky four who were annointed as such because they were doing what they were doing at the right time.
I come from a belief that music is art and as such, there are no awards for art. I believe it's all perspective and it's all context. When I state that I like the Stones far more than I do the Beatles, its from a place of opinion. Invariably, I get the response that I did here from Andy and evenflow82, which is disbelief that someone could think the Beatles are overrated. I never hear what their tangible legacy is, except for that nebulous phrasing of "knocking down pop doors" etc. That's fine, but again, I'll submit that its possible that they were knocking down doors that would've been knocked down anyway.
Ultimately, the Beatles are beloved for their sound. That's great. But we need to be clear on our terms. Are we affording enshrined places in music history based simply on whether a lot of people like(d) them? Or did they do something more that warrants their legendary statuses? The latter is what I'm referring to, because if all it takes is a lot of fans and high record sales, get ready for a lot of new "legends" from this generation.
So I'm not doubting that I'm in the minority when I say they are overrated. What I mean by that however is that I think there's a good majority of people that conflate the two and presume their legend based on the fact that they were the biggest band in the world for two decades. There's a difference between calling someone a legend because they sell a lot of records and calling someone a legend because they did something truly innovative. I question whether the Beatles and only the Beatles - in that timultuous cultural era - could've done whatever it is their credited for doing.
I question whether we could ever prove a positive (they are or aren't overrated) when talking about art and long-gone art at that, which is why what I've said here is opinion, and not a lie.
1998-06-30 Minneapolis
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2 2018-06-18 London 1 2018-08-18 Wrigley 1 2018-08-20 Wrigley 2 2022-09-16 Nashville 2023-08-31 St. Paul 2023-09-02 St. Paul 2023-09-05 Chicago 1
1998-06-30 Minneapolis
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2 2018-06-18 London 1 2018-08-18 Wrigley 1 2018-08-20 Wrigley 2 2022-09-16 Nashville 2023-08-31 St. Paul 2023-09-02 St. Paul 2023-09-05 Chicago 1
How come the standard view is: no one can criticize the Beatles without first contending they are the greatest ever.
I think that's bs. I don't care for them. I don't care (know) about what they "broke down." And I'm sick of having to defend that opinion.
6-16-03 St Paul 6-26-06 St Paul 6-27-06 St Paul 7-2-011 EV MPLS 9-3-011 Alpine 9-4-011 Alpine 9-22-012 Atlanta 7-19-013 Wrigley 10-9-014 Lincoln 10-14-014 Memphis 10-17-014 Moline 10-19-014 St Paul 10-22-014 Denver 9-26-015 New York City 8-20-016 Wrigley 8-22-016 Wrigley 8-13-018 Missoula 8-18-018 Wrigley 8-20-018 Wrigley 9-18-022 St. Louis
i swear we've had this conversation before, and i realize i am not going to change your opinion and arguing with you about this is a fruitless endeavor. but, man, you listen to what they were doing in the mid-to-late 60s and put it in context with everything else that was going on around them, then i just don't see how you CAN'T say they are one of the most influential bands ever, and deserving of all of the accolades they get, no matter how much it is. NOBODY did what the beatles did BEFORE the beatles did it. this isn't hyperbole. they started out playing the game, and i don't think anyone will say the early boy band beatles is their best work by any means. popular, yes. groundbreaking, no. but once they started doing their own thing, they changed everything. feedback on a record? the beatles did it first. recording innovations, like backwards vocals and double tracked audio? the beatles did it first. innovating the promotional music video? the beatles did it first. not to mention the actual songs they produced, which sounded like nothing else ever recorded, and gave all other musicians an idea of what could be accomplished in recorded music. and all of this was accomplished in 7 years.
i'm not a huge beatles mark, and there was a time i felt the way you did, but over time i realized i was wrong. maybe someday you will, too. that's all i'll say. otherwise we'll just be running in circles.
How come the standard view is: no one can criticize the Beatles without first contending they are the greatest ever.
I think that's bs. I don't care for them. I don't care (know) about what they "broke down." And I'm sick of having to defend that opinion.
it's ok to not like their music. that's not the issue. i won't ever fault someone for not liking their music. but there just isn't any way i could ever say the beatles are overrated, even if i hated every single thing they put out.
i swear we've had this conversation before, and i realize i am not going to change your opinion and arguing with you about this is a fruitless endeavor. but, man, you listen to what they were doing in the mid-to-late 60s and put it in context with everything else that was going on around them, then i just don't see how you CAN'T say they are one of the most influential bands ever, and deserving of all of the accolades they get, no matter how much it is. NOBODY did what the beatles did BEFORE the beatles did it. this isn't hyperbole. they started out playing the game, and i don't think anyone will say the early boy band beatles is their best work by any means. popular, yes. groundbreaking, no. but once they started doing their own thing, they changed everything. feedback on a record? the beatles did it first. recording innovations, like backwards vocals and double tracked audio? the beatles did it first. innovating the promotional music video? the beatles did it first. not to mention the actual songs they produced, which sounded like nothing else ever recorded, and gave all other musicians an idea of what could be accomplished in recorded music. and all of this was accomplished in 7 years.
i'm not a huge beatles mark, and there was a time i felt the way you did, but over time i realized i was wrong. maybe someday you will, too. that's all i'll say. otherwise we'll just be running in circles.
See? This is what I needed. An argument, that while I'm not sure I entirely agree, is at least principled. Too often we let personal taste inform broader claims about where a band lies historically, and I think you've done a fair job articulating the broader point. Nice work Andy.
1998-06-30 Minneapolis
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2 2018-06-18 London 1 2018-08-18 Wrigley 1 2018-08-20 Wrigley 2 2022-09-16 Nashville 2023-08-31 St. Paul 2023-09-02 St. Paul 2023-09-05 Chicago 1
I still think we owe it to the Beatles, whether we're defending or impugning their legacy, to decide how much weight to give the context and times they lived in as a factor in what they did. Does it matter more or less that, although they might have been the first to do something, there quite possibly could've been some other group that would've come along and done what they did, given the turbulence of those times (artistically)?
I ask because:
I don't think there would've been another Michael Jackson. I don't think there would've been another Bob Dylan.
I think that adds to their legacies and greatness.
Any other examples?
Do the Beatles fit that statement? That's what I'm wrestling with. (again, I realize this is impossible to conclusively argue, but fun nonetheless)
1998-06-30 Minneapolis
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2 2018-06-18 London 1 2018-08-18 Wrigley 1 2018-08-20 Wrigley 2 2022-09-16 Nashville 2023-08-31 St. Paul 2023-09-02 St. Paul 2023-09-05 Chicago 1
I'd hesitate in claiming the Beatles were the first to do "blah blah" considering it's impossible to pinpoint the first time something was truly done in any genre of music. They very might have been the first to find success with something but the history of music is far to vast and so obscure at times. Memphis blues? Delta blues? That music had plenty of distortion. "Rocket 88" is credited as the first rock n roll song. It's distorted.
6-16-03 St Paul 6-26-06 St Paul 6-27-06 St Paul 7-2-011 EV MPLS 9-3-011 Alpine 9-4-011 Alpine 9-22-012 Atlanta 7-19-013 Wrigley 10-9-014 Lincoln 10-14-014 Memphis 10-17-014 Moline 10-19-014 St Paul 10-22-014 Denver 9-26-015 New York City 8-20-016 Wrigley 8-22-016 Wrigley 8-13-018 Missoula 8-18-018 Wrigley 8-20-018 Wrigley 9-18-022 St. Louis
Sounds they had some great producers and audio techs? Again, is this their genius or someone else's or theirs by virtue of dumb blind luck?
1998-06-30 Minneapolis
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2 2018-06-18 London 1 2018-08-18 Wrigley 1 2018-08-20 Wrigley 2 2022-09-16 Nashville 2023-08-31 St. Paul 2023-09-02 St. Paul 2023-09-05 Chicago 1
to vant's point, i will say is that those four individuals (and their producer, engineers, etc., to be fair) came together and produced what is largely regarded as one of if not the most influential catalogs of music ever. that happened, and it happened when it happened. we can discuss hypotheticals and what-if's, but it will still remain that it was the beatles - not the who, not dylan, not elvis, not hendrix, not the stones, not michael jackson, not some busking band on the streets of 1964 london - that gets recognized in those terms. to try and twist "the times" as some sort of reason for NOT giving the beatles their due seems pretty weak. i don't think that type of approach to a legal argument would fare well in court, yeah?
Sounds they had some great producers and audio techs? Again, is this their genius or someone else's or theirs by virtue of dumb blind luck?
i posted the above before i saw this, and i do give the people they worked with some credit for sure, george martin quite a bit. but again, it was those individuals working together. one different ingredient and ??? = hypotheticals. if you read up on the beatles, you will see that they experimented a lot, they being the band. and they never wanted to record the same thing twice. they were forward thinkers, through and through. and it showed in the results.
and a lot of genius inventions and ideas can be attributed to dumb blind luck. just because you got lucky once, doesn't mean you can always recreate that luck. and it doesn't mean you should be knocked down a peg for putting your dumb luck discovery into practice.
Comments
-Christopher Walken
you're=you are
your=showing ownership
The truth has a well known liberal bias.
-Stephen Colbert
But, all that aside, it was a great show.
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2
2018-06-18 London 1
2018-08-18 Wrigley 1
2018-08-20 Wrigley 2
2022-09-16 Nashville
2023-08-31 St. Paul
2023-09-02 St. Paul
2023-09-05 Chicago 1
6-26-06 St Paul
6-27-06 St Paul
7-2-011 EV MPLS
9-3-011 Alpine
9-4-011 Alpine
9-22-012 Atlanta
7-19-013 Wrigley
10-9-014 Lincoln
10-14-014 Memphis
10-17-014 Moline
10-19-014 St Paul
10-22-014 Denver
9-26-015 New York City
8-20-016 Wrigley
8-22-016 Wrigley
8-13-018 Missoula
8-18-018 Wrigley
8-20-018 Wrigley
9-18-022 St. Louis
1 - is the Holiday Inn that is supposedly right across the street from the Xcel Center a good hotel to stay at?
2 - good bars within walking distance of the Xcel Center?
3 - Good area in Minneapolis for Saturday night life? good area with cool bars and food? easy to get cabs to and from St, Paul?
4 - best place to watch NFL football on sunday afternoon?
Hope that helps.
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2
2018-06-18 London 1
2018-08-18 Wrigley 1
2018-08-20 Wrigley 2
2022-09-16 Nashville
2023-08-31 St. Paul
2023-09-02 St. Paul
2023-09-05 Chicago 1
Indianapolis - 8/18/00
Champaign - 4/23/03
St. Paul - 6/26/06 (w/Petty)
St. Paul - 6/27/06 (w/Petty)
Chicago - 8/23/09
Minneapolis - 7/2/11 (Ed)
Alpine Valley (PJ20) - 9/3/11
Alpine Valley (PJ20) - 9/4/11
Wrigley - 7/19/13
Pittsburgh - 10/11/13
Buffalo - 10/12/13
Moline - 10/17/14
St. Paul - 10/19/14
Milwaukee - 10/20/14
Wrigley - 8/20/16
Wrigley - 8/22/16
Wrigley - 8/18/18
Wrigley - 8/20/18
St. Louis - 9/18/22
St. Paul 1 - 8/31/23
St. Paul 2 - 9/2/23
Chicago 1 - 9/5/23
Chicago 2 - 9/7/23
Wrigley - 8/29/24
Wrigley - 8/31/24
6-26-06 St Paul
6-27-06 St Paul
7-2-011 EV MPLS
9-3-011 Alpine
9-4-011 Alpine
9-22-012 Atlanta
7-19-013 Wrigley
10-9-014 Lincoln
10-14-014 Memphis
10-17-014 Moline
10-19-014 St Paul
10-22-014 Denver
9-26-015 New York City
8-20-016 Wrigley
8-22-016 Wrigley
8-13-018 Missoula
8-18-018 Wrigley
8-20-018 Wrigley
9-18-022 St. Louis
-Christopher Walken
you're=you are
your=showing ownership
The truth has a well known liberal bias.
-Stephen Colbert
-Christopher Walken
you're=you are
your=showing ownership
The truth has a well known liberal bias.
-Stephen Colbert
6-26-06 St Paul
6-27-06 St Paul
7-2-011 EV MPLS
9-3-011 Alpine
9-4-011 Alpine
9-22-012 Atlanta
7-19-013 Wrigley
10-9-014 Lincoln
10-14-014 Memphis
10-17-014 Moline
10-19-014 St Paul
10-22-014 Denver
9-26-015 New York City
8-20-016 Wrigley
8-22-016 Wrigley
8-13-018 Missoula
8-18-018 Wrigley
8-20-018 Wrigley
9-18-022 St. Louis
I come from a belief that music is art and as such, there are no awards for art. I believe it's all perspective and it's all context. When I state that I like the Stones far more than I do the Beatles, its from a place of opinion. Invariably, I get the response that I did here from Andy and evenflow82, which is disbelief that someone could think the Beatles are overrated. I never hear what their tangible legacy is, except for that nebulous phrasing of "knocking down pop doors" etc. That's fine, but again, I'll submit that its possible that they were knocking down doors that would've been knocked down anyway.
Ultimately, the Beatles are beloved for their sound. That's great. But we need to be clear on our terms. Are we affording enshrined places in music history based simply on whether a lot of people like(d) them? Or did they do something more that warrants their legendary statuses? The latter is what I'm referring to, because if all it takes is a lot of fans and high record sales, get ready for a lot of new "legends" from this generation.
So I'm not doubting that I'm in the minority when I say they are overrated. What I mean by that however is that I think there's a good majority of people that conflate the two and presume their legend based on the fact that they were the biggest band in the world for two decades. There's a difference between calling someone a legend because they sell a lot of records and calling someone a legend because they did something truly innovative. I question whether the Beatles and only the Beatles - in that timultuous cultural era - could've done whatever it is their credited for doing.
I question whether we could ever prove a positive (they are or aren't overrated) when talking about art and long-gone art at that, which is why what I've said here is opinion, and not a lie.
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I think that's bs. I don't care for them. I don't care (know) about what they "broke down." And I'm sick of having to defend that opinion.
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i'm not a huge beatles mark, and there was a time i felt the way you did, but over time i realized i was wrong. maybe someday you will, too. that's all i'll say. otherwise we'll just be running in circles.
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I ask because:
I don't think there would've been another Michael Jackson.
I don't think there would've been another Bob Dylan.
I think that adds to their legacies and greatness.
Any other examples?
Do the Beatles fit that statement? That's what I'm wrestling with. (again, I realize this is impossible to conclusively argue, but fun nonetheless)
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2012-06-26 Amsterdam
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2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
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2018-06-18 London 1
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-Christopher Walken
you're=you are
your=showing ownership
The truth has a well known liberal bias.
-Stephen Colbert
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2011-09-03 PJ20
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2012-06-26 Amsterdam
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2013-11-23 Los Angeles
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and a lot of genius inventions and ideas can be attributed to dumb blind luck. just because you got lucky once, doesn't mean you can always recreate that luck. and it doesn't mean you should be knocked down a peg for putting your dumb luck discovery into practice.