The Death Penalty

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  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,597
    Regardless of the beliefs of the time, there were no witches in Salem. There was no witchcraft. 100% of those convicted, condemned and killed in Salem were innocent of the charges. 100%.

    It isn't comparable to the modern death penalty.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Okay, I see where you guys were going with your comments, which isn't where I was going but now I can understand where we diverged. Sorry.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    edited April 2015
    oftenreading said:

    Okay, I see where you guys were going with your comments, which isn't where I was going but now I can understand where we diverged. Sorry.

    Don't apologize , the way you originally stated your thoughts was my point.

    So not comparing victims actions but am comparing the mob mentality and the punishment.

    And yes we are okay with throwing in a few innocents to get our blood lust. So that also compares.
    Post edited by callen on
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    callen said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    The last time I was in Boston, I checked out Salem.

    Knowing the history, I was weirded out there. I checked out the historical sites and I couldn't stop thinking of those poor women and those ravenous religious nutjobs.

    Ravenous nut jobs is what I think as some drool at the thought of someone being executed in our present day America. Americans in few years will look at us as we now do them.
    Ridiculous thing to say.

    Comparing burning women alive who are suspected of being a witch to sentencing a toddler rapist and murderer to death for their crime is a colossal leap.

    Is this what the anti-death penalty argument has been reduced to? I feel cemented in my beliefs more than ever if the opponents of the DP view child murderers the same as Salem witchhunt victims.

    I'll say it again... ridiculous.
    Nice 30b.
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    callen said:

    South Carolina has higher percentage of religious than most states. 93% of pollution are Christians. And firing squads/executions are just hunky dory. Guess I really need to read the Bible some more cause I'm getting mixed messages.

    I just recently learned Charleston and South Carolina had the highest population of Jews in the colonies.How long it lasted IDK but was for some time and I believe there is still a fairly large/strong base of Southern Jews still there.
    But Cal your right it's very Southern Babtist/Christian wBob Jones U,etc
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    edited April 2015
    rr165892 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    callen said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    The last time I was in Boston, I checked out Salem.

    Knowing the history, I was weirded out there. I checked out the historical sites and I couldn't stop thinking of those poor women and those ravenous religious nutjobs.

    Ravenous nut jobs is what I think as some drool at the thought of someone being executed in our present day America. Americans in few years will look at us as we now do them.
    Ridiculous thing to say.

    Comparing burning women alive who are suspected of being a witch to sentencing a toddler rapist and murderer to death for their crime is a colossal leap.

    Is this what the anti-death penalty argument has been reduced to? I feel cemented in my beliefs more than ever if the opponents of the DP view child murderers the same as Salem witchhunt victims.

    I'll say it again... ridiculous.
    Nice 30b.
    Yes it's uncomfortable to think ones motivations to kill are the same as past mobs and their lust that we now see as Barbaric and nuts. Oh well.

    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    callen said:

    oftenreading said:

    Okay, I see where you guys were going with your comments, which isn't where I was going but now I can understand where we diverged. Sorry.

    Don't apologize , the way you originally stated your thoughts was my point.

    So not comparing victims actions but am comparing the mob mentality and the punishment.

    And yes we are okay with throwing in a few innocents to get our blood lust. So that also compares.
    You're kind of being silly.

    One is a victim, while the other is a scumbag that, say, raped and murdered an infant (Smith executed in Ohio earlier this year and discussed in this thread): his punishment fit his crime.

    Poor poor Ted Bundy eh? How awful of society to execute him- just a mob of frenzied, blood thirsty savages. I mean gee... he only killed 30+ women.

    And nobody is okay with executing the wrong person.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    rr165892 said:

    callen said:

    South Carolina has higher percentage of religious than most states. 93% of pollution are Christians. And firing squads/executions are just hunky dory. Guess I really need to read the Bible some more cause I'm getting mixed messages.

    I just recently learned Charleston and South Carolina had the highest population of Jews in the colonies.How long it lasted IDK but was for some time and I believe there is still a fairly large/strong base of Southern Jews still there.
    But Cal your right it's very Southern Babtist/Christian wBob Jones U,etc
    And let's take our criminals, mental imbeciles line em up against the wall, pay some poor schmucks barely better than above poverty line wages to shoot metal projectiles shredding their body's to make them pay.
    God Bless executions.
    Gods bless USA.
    God forgives those that are okay with few falsely accused being thrown in.


    Do realize many Christians are against death penalty.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,597
    callen said:

    oftenreading said:

    Okay, I see where you guys were going with your comments, which isn't where I was going but now I can understand where we diverged. Sorry.

    Don't apologize , the way you originally stated your thoughts was my point.

    So not comparing victims actions but am comparing the mob mentality and the punishment.

    And yes we are okay with throwing in a few innocents to get our blood lust. So that also compares.
    That mob mentality exists only in your head, where death penalty proponents are drooling at the prospect of using it.

    False conviction is its own, very serious, issue. It should be taken seriously and not pigeonholed exclusively as a death penalty issue. We hear often that life in prison is supposedly worse than death. Don't pretend that a few false convictions leading to innocents dying in prison is somehow better.

    And while someone falsely convicted who is exonerated after 30 or 40 years can be let out of prison, the years taken from them can never be given back. Eliminating the death penalty does not eliminate this problem.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    JimmyV said:

    callen said:

    oftenreading said:

    Okay, I see where you guys were going with your comments, which isn't where I was going but now I can understand where we diverged. Sorry.

    Don't apologize , the way you originally stated your thoughts was my point.

    So not comparing victims actions but am comparing the mob mentality and the punishment.

    And yes we are okay with throwing in a few innocents to get our blood lust. So that also compares.
    That mob mentality exists only in your head, where death penalty proponents are drooling at the prospect of using it.

    False conviction is its own, very serious, issue. It should be taken seriously and not pigeonholed exclusively as a death penalty issue. We hear often that life in prison is supposedly worse than death. Don't pretend that a few false convictions leading to innocents dying in prison is somehow better.

    And while someone falsely convicted who is exonerated after 30 or 40 years can be let out of prison, the years taken from them can never be given back. Eliminating the death penalty does not eliminate this problem.
    Strong points made here.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    JimmyV said:

    callen said:

    oftenreading said:

    Okay, I see where you guys were going with your comments, which isn't where I was going but now I can understand where we diverged. Sorry.

    Don't apologize , the way you originally stated your thoughts was my point.

    So not comparing victims actions but am comparing the mob mentality and the punishment.

    And yes we are okay with throwing in a few innocents to get our blood lust. So that also compares.
    That mob mentality exists only in your head, where death penalty proponents are drooling at the prospect of using it.

    False conviction is its own, very serious, issue. It should be taken seriously and not pigeonholed exclusively as a death penalty issue. We hear often that life in prison is supposedly worse than death. Don't pretend that a few false convictions leading to innocents dying in prison is somehow better.

    And while someone falsely convicted who is exonerated after 30 or 40 years can be let out of prison, the years taken from them can never be given back. Eliminating the death penalty does not eliminate this problem.
    With all due respect JimmyV there are indeed people "drooling" at the thought of using the DP. The article I posted just last week talks about some of them, including the prosecutors who celebrate each DP conviction with a party and give each other awards as they rack up the convictions, however they got them.

    I can believe that the crew on this thread isn't "drooling" for executions but let's not pretend that some people aren't.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,597
    oftenreading said:

    JimmyV said:

    callen said:

    oftenreading said:

    Okay, I see where you guys were going with your comments, which isn't where I was going but now I can understand where we diverged. Sorry.

    Don't apologize , the way you originally stated your thoughts was my point.

    So not comparing victims actions but am comparing the mob mentality and the punishment.

    And yes we are okay with throwing in a few innocents to get our blood lust. So that also compares.
    That mob mentality exists only in your head, where death penalty proponents are drooling at the prospect of using it.

    False conviction is its own, very serious, issue. It should be taken seriously and not pigeonholed exclusively as a death penalty issue. We hear often that life in prison is supposedly worse than death. Don't pretend that a few false convictions leading to innocents dying in prison is somehow better.

    And while someone falsely convicted who is exonerated after 30 or 40 years can be let out of prison, the years taken from them can never be given back. Eliminating the death penalty does not eliminate this problem.
    With all due respect JimmyV there are indeed people "drooling" at the thought of using the DP. The article I posted just last week talks about some of them, including the prosecutors who celebrate each DP conviction with a party and give each other awards as they rack up the convictions, however they got them.

    I can believe that the crew on this thread isn't "drooling" for executions but let's not pretend that some people aren't.
    Even so, that hardly constitutes a mob or a mob mentality. A prosecutor's job is to get a conviction. I'm not sure it is any different than defense attorneys celebrating after winning a case when they know their client is guilty as sin.



    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    JimmyV said:

    oftenreading said:

    JimmyV said:

    callen said:

    oftenreading said:

    Okay, I see where you guys were going with your comments, which isn't where I was going but now I can understand where we diverged. Sorry.

    Don't apologize , the way you originally stated your thoughts was my point.

    So not comparing victims actions but am comparing the mob mentality and the punishment.

    And yes we are okay with throwing in a few innocents to get our blood lust. So that also compares.
    That mob mentality exists only in your head, where death penalty proponents are drooling at the prospect of using it.

    False conviction is its own, very serious, issue. It should be taken seriously and not pigeonholed exclusively as a death penalty issue. We hear often that life in prison is supposedly worse than death. Don't pretend that a few false convictions leading to innocents dying in prison is somehow better.

    And while someone falsely convicted who is exonerated after 30 or 40 years can be let out of prison, the years taken from them can never be given back. Eliminating the death penalty does not eliminate this problem.
    With all due respect JimmyV there are indeed people "drooling" at the thought of using the DP. The article I posted just last week talks about some of them, including the prosecutors who celebrate each DP conviction with a party and give each other awards as they rack up the convictions, however they got them.

    I can believe that the crew on this thread isn't "drooling" for executions but let's not pretend that some people aren't.
    Even so, that hardly constitutes a mob or a mob mentality. A prosecutor's job is to get a conviction. I'm not sure it is any different than defense attorneys celebrating after winning a case when they know their client is guilty as sin.



    They are celebrating the DP verdict, not the conviction per se.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    oftenreading said:

    JimmyV said:

    oftenreading said:

    JimmyV said:

    callen said:

    oftenreading said:

    Okay, I see where you guys were going with your comments, which isn't where I was going but now I can understand where we diverged. Sorry.

    Don't apologize , the way you originally stated your thoughts was my point.

    So not comparing victims actions but am comparing the mob mentality and the punishment.

    And yes we are okay with throwing in a few innocents to get our blood lust. So that also compares.
    That mob mentality exists only in your head, where death penalty proponents are drooling at the prospect of using it.

    False conviction is its own, very serious, issue. It should be taken seriously and not pigeonholed exclusively as a death penalty issue. We hear often that life in prison is supposedly worse than death. Don't pretend that a few false convictions leading to innocents dying in prison is somehow better.

    And while someone falsely convicted who is exonerated after 30 or 40 years can be let out of prison, the years taken from them can never be given back. Eliminating the death penalty does not eliminate this problem.
    With all due respect JimmyV there are indeed people "drooling" at the thought of using the DP. The article I posted just last week talks about some of them, including the prosecutors who celebrate each DP conviction with a party and give each other awards as they rack up the convictions, however they got them.

    I can believe that the crew on this thread isn't "drooling" for executions but let's not pretend that some people aren't.
    Even so, that hardly constitutes a mob or a mob mentality. A prosecutor's job is to get a conviction. I'm not sure it is any different than defense attorneys celebrating after winning a case when they know their client is guilty as sin.



    They are celebrating the DP verdict, not the conviction per se.
    How can you be so sure?

    And even if they were... given that they might feel strongly that some of the animals they convict warrant death for their brutal offences... why wouldn't they be happy with their efforts?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    edited April 2015
    JimmyV said:

    callen said:

    oftenreading said:

    Okay, I see where you guys were going with your comments, which isn't where I was going but now I can understand where we diverged. Sorry.

    Don't apologize , the way you originally stated your thoughts was my point.

    So not comparing victims actions but am comparing the mob mentality and the punishment.

    And yes we are okay with throwing in a few innocents to get our blood lust. So that also compares.
    That mob mentality exists only in your head, where death penalty proponents are drooling at the prospect of using it.

    False conviction is its own, very serious, issue. It should be taken seriously and not pigeonholed exclusively as a death penalty issue. We hear often that life in prison is supposedly worse than death. Don't pretend that a few false convictions leading to innocents dying in prison is somehow better.

    And while someone falsely convicted who is exonerated after 30 or 40 years can be let out of prison, the years taken from them can never be given back. Eliminating the death penalty does not eliminate this problem.
    Many many salivate and drool to kill the bad guys just as those salivated and drooled to burn the witches. Exact same thing.

    If one is for the death penalty they ARE okay with a few innocents being thrown in to satisfy the vengeance some humans crave.

    TB I know it had to suck looking at past humans atrocities then realizing you are them.

    And yes if we let them out they are still alive. Don't get this justification Jimmy.

    Thanks for bringing up salem.
    Post edited by callen on
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/fbi-overstated-forensic-hair-matches-in-nearly-all-criminal-trials-for-decades/2015/04/18/39c8d8c6-e515-11e4-b510-962fcfabc310_story.html
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    callen said:


    If one is for the death penalty they ARE okay with a few innocents being thrown in to satisfy the vengeance some humans crave.

    Nope and nope. I think many can, do, and have spoken for ourselves in this thread and others and I can't recall seeing anyone who supported what you're proposing.


  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    hedonist said:

    callen said:


    If one is for the death penalty they ARE okay with a few innocents being thrown in to satisfy the vengeance some humans crave.

    Nope and nope. I think many can, do, and have spoken for ourselves in this thread and others and I can't recall seeing anyone who supported what you're proposing.


    I believe what callen is saying is that, humans being fallible as they are, there will inevitably be some false convictions and, if you are for the DP, then you have to accept that some of those executed are/were actually innocent, just like some of those incarcerated are innocent. Those who insist that in the future our procedures will be so good that we won't "accidentally" execute any innocent people are being willfully blind.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited April 2015
    oftenreading said:

    hedonist said:

    callen said:


    If one is for the death penalty they ARE okay with a few innocents being thrown in to satisfy the vengeance some humans crave.

    Nope and nope. I think many can, do, and have spoken for ourselves in this thread and others and I can't recall seeing anyone who supported what you're proposing.


    I believe what callen is saying is that, humans being fallible as they are, there will inevitably be some false convictions and, if you are for the DP, then you have to accept that some of those executed are/were actually innocent, just like some of those incarcerated are innocent. Those who insist that in the future our procedures will be so good that we won't "accidentally" execute any innocent people are being willfully blind.
    Callen

    Is oftenreading right with the surmise?

    edit - quoted wrong
    Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    callen said:

    JimmyV said:

    callen said:

    oftenreading said:

    Okay, I see where you guys were going with your comments, which isn't where I was going but now I can understand where we diverged. Sorry.

    Don't apologize , the way you originally stated your thoughts was my point.

    So not comparing victims actions but am comparing the mob mentality and the punishment.

    And yes we are okay with throwing in a few innocents to get our blood lust. So that also compares.
    That mob mentality exists only in your head, where death penalty proponents are drooling at the prospect of using it.

    False conviction is its own, very serious, issue. It should be taken seriously and not pigeonholed exclusively as a death penalty issue. We hear often that life in prison is supposedly worse than death. Don't pretend that a few false convictions leading to innocents dying in prison is somehow better.

    And while someone falsely convicted who is exonerated after 30 or 40 years can be let out of prison, the years taken from them can never be given back. Eliminating the death penalty does not eliminate this problem.
    Many many salivate and drool to kill the bad guys just as those salivated and drooled to burn the witches. Exact same thing.

    If one is for the death penalty they ARE okay with a few innocents being thrown in to satisfy the vengeance some humans crave.

    TB I know it had to suck looking at past humans atrocities then realizing you are them.

    And yes if we let them out they are still alive. Don't get this justification Jimmy.

    Thanks for bringing up salem.
    Huh? Again... just no. I'm not even going to speak to the Salem DP comparison any more- just silly.

    And I'm not 'one of them'. I'm a good person. If you feel you share a common bond with guys like Ted Bundy then that's too bad.
    "My brain's a good brain!"

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