The Death Penalty

HughFreakingDillon

callen said:

Can't have it both ways. You either support and okay with few innocents dying or you stop it. Never a fool proof system.

for me that is part of it, but not all of it. even if we had 100% certainty, no human has the right to put another human to death. period.

callen

HughFreakingDillon said:

callen said:

Can't have it both ways. You either support and okay with few innocents dying or you stop it. Never a fool proof system.

for me that is part of it, but not all of it. even if we had 100% certainty, no human has the right to put another human to death. period.

Yes have many reasons that I oppose as well but just makes me shudder knowing a human could be shot by firing squad and not be responsible.

Last-12-Exit

callen said:

Can't have it both ways. You either support and okay with few innocents dying or you stop it. Never a fool proof system.

Yes, you can. If you only put the DP on the table if there is video and DNA proof.

callen

Last-12-Exit said:

callen said:

Can't have it both ways. You either support and okay with few innocents dying or you stop it. Never a fool proof system.

Yes, you can. If you only put the DP on the table if there is video and DNA proof.

Video can be manipulated and DNA can be planted. Some crooked evidence planting cops and DA's. I get what your saying and chances lowered, just the only way to eliminate chance is to stop.

Last-12-Exit

callen said:

Last-12-Exit said:

callen said:

Can't have it both ways. You either support and okay with few innocents dying or you stop it. Never a fool proof system.

Yes, you can. If you only put the DP on the table if there is video and DNA proof.

Video can be manipulated and DNA can be planted. Some crooked evidence planting cops and DA's. I get what your saying and chances lowered, just the only way to eliminate chance is to stop.

Then that person is going to die anyway if someone can alter video evidence and plant DNA on a scene.

JimmyV

If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.

HughFreakingDillon

JimmyV said:

If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.

those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.

JimmyV

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.

those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.

No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.

HughFreakingDillon

JimmyV said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.

those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.

No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.

the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.

you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.

thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?

JimmyV

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.

those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.

No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.

the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.

you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.

thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?

It's true, you can't go back from death, but you also can't give back a life wasted in prison. In neither case is the penalty the issue. The false conviction is.

It would be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad. But, it would also be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that their dad was killed by a murderer who had already been convicted once for similar crime.

HughFreakingDillon

JimmyV said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.

those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.

No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.

the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.

you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.

thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?

It's true, you can't go back from death, but you also can't give back a life wasted in prison. In neither case is the penalty the issue. The false conviction is.

It would be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad. But, it would also be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that their dad was killed by a murderer who had already been convicted once for similar crime.

it baffles me to see people state very clearly they support pre-emptive killing.

JimmyV

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.

those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.

No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.

the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.

you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.

thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?

It's true, you can't go back from death, but you also can't give back a life wasted in prison. In neither case is the penalty the issue. The false conviction is.

It would be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad. But, it would also be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that their dad was killed by a murderer who had already been convicted once for similar crime.

it baffles me to see people state very clearly they support pre-emptive killing.

Um, no. Executing someone who has already committed murder is not pre-emptive killing. Executing someone because they show traits that indicate someday they may commit murder would be pre-emptive killing.

HughFreakingDillon

JimmyV said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.

those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.

No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.

the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.

you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.

thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?

It's true, you can't go back from death, but you also can't give back a life wasted in prison. In neither case is the penalty the issue. The false conviction is.

actually, we've seen many cases where the wrongfully convicted have been given their freedom only to continue their (abbreviated) lives in freedom.

so in your "the false conviction is the issue, not the penalty" argument, since death is not reversable, would you agree to the following:

-your vehicle is caught by photo radar as doing excessive speeds
-you are sent a $500 ticket in the mail
-you fight the conviction in court, and it is overturned because it is found you were not the one driving
-you still have to pay the $500 ticket (because the penalty is not reversable, and it wasn't the penalty that was the problem-it was the SYSTEM that failed)
-you are now not allowed to drive anymore, because you had previous speeding tickets in school zones, etc, and one more time caught and you are done

does this make a lick of sense to you?

Last-12-Exit

I don't know what the statistics are, but I would bet that less than 1% of the people put to death are innocent. No, I don't want to see ANY person executed for a crime he didn't commit. But if the problem is wrongly convicting people, than the death penalty is NOT the issue.

JimmyV

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.

those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.

No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.

the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.

you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.

thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?

It's true, you can't go back from death, but you also can't give back a life wasted in prison. In neither case is the penalty the issue. The false conviction is.

actually, we've seen many cases where the wrongfully convicted have been given their freedom only to continue their (abbreviated) lives in freedom.

so in your "the false conviction is the issue, not the penalty" argument, since death is not reversable, would you agree to the following:

-your vehicle is caught by photo radar as doing excessive speeds
-you are sent a $500 ticket in the mail
-you fight the conviction in court, and it is overturned because it is found you were not the one driving
-you still have to pay the $500 ticket (because the penalty is not reversable, and it wasn't the penalty that was the problem-it was the SYSTEM that failed)
-you are now not allowed to drive anymore, because you had previous speeding tickets in school zones, etc, and one more time caught and you are done

does this make a lick of sense to you?

Have you seen any cases where the wrongfully convicted were given back the years they lost in prison? You haven't, because in both cases something was taken away that cannot be given back. A life cannot be given back, true, but neither can years taken off of a life. They are not comparable to a traffic ticket that can be refunded or expunged.

JimmyV

Last-12-Exit said:

I don't know what the statistics are, but I would bet that less than 1% of the people put to death are innocent. No, I don't want to see ANY person executed for a crime he didn't commit. But if the problem is wrongly convicting people, than the death penalty is NOT the issue.

I don't know what the stats are either but I guarantee it is higher than it should be. The death penalty is sought far too often. That is its biggest fault. It is used incorrectly.

HughFreakingDillon

Last-12-Exit said:

I don't know what the statistics are, but I would bet that less than 1% of the people put to death are innocent. No, I don't want to see ANY person executed for a crime he didn't commit. But if the problem is wrongly convicting people, than the death penalty is NOT the issue.

baffling.

Last-12-Exit

HughFreakingDillon said:

Last-12-Exit said:

I don't know what the statistics are, but I would bet that less than 1% of the people put to death are innocent. No, I don't want to see ANY person executed for a crime he didn't commit. But if the problem is wrongly convicting people, than the death penalty is NOT the issue.

baffling.

What? That I'm ok with a child raping murderer being put to death? If there is video and DNA evidence supporting the guilty verdict, there's no reason to let scum like that live. What's more baffling is that you support sick fucks like that to breathe the same air as you. You can what if everything. Yes, video evidence can be tampered with and DNA can be planted. If somebody is capable of manipulating both to get somebody a death sentence, then chances are that person find an easier way in which to kill someone.

callen

JimmyV said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.

those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.

No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.

the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.

you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.

thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?

It's true, you can't go back from death, but you also can't give back a life wasted in prison. In neither case is the penalty the issue. The false conviction is.

It would be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad. But, it would also be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that their dad was killed by a murderer who had already been convicted once for similar crime.

BUT THEY ARE STILL ALIVE.

Last-12-Exit

callen said:

JimmyV said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

If video evidence is being manipulated and crooked cops are planting DNA, then the death penalty is not the issue.

those possibilities absolutely make the DP the issue. that's the entire point.

No, because those possibilities are issues unto themselves. A false conviction that leads to a prison sentence is no small thing. Falsifying evidence is the problem here, not the death penalty.

the propensity of the human race to fuck up is the problem. the death penalty, the penal system, murders themselves, those are all under the same umbrella that makes the death penalty a problem: humans are imperfect beings who produce technology that is able to be manipulated.

you can't go back from death. that's a mistake that cannot be undone.

thirty is big on the "so what do you tell the victim's family? sorry, but we are just going to give the murderer a hug and let him go" idea, let's flip that: how do you tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad? "whoops! callateral damage of the system! but we killed a REALLY guilty guy last night! hope that makes you feel better! here's a wah-wee-pop!"?

It's true, you can't go back from death, but you also can't give back a life wasted in prison. In neither case is the penalty the issue. The false conviction is.

It would be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that you fucked up and killed their dad. But, it would also be terrible to tell a little girl or boy that their dad was killed by a murderer who had already been convicted once for similar crime.

BUT THEY ARE STILL ALIVE.

You make it sound like murderers and rapists need to be alive.