The Death Penalty

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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Any rational person would be deterred from committing capital crimes if a state sanctioned murder was the punishment approved by the revenge of citizens.

    Any irrational person commits capital crimes.

    You are not making sense.
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  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited April 2015
    catefrances said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Any rational person would be deterred from committing capital crimes if a state sanctioned murder was the punishment approved by the revenge of citizens.

    Any irrational person commits capital crimes.

    You are not making sense.
    Only if one is drunk or easily confused. :smile:
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    catefrances said:

    The death penalty is state sanctioned murder and simply revenge. It does nothing to deter people from committing capital crimes.

    Simply put... no.

    It's a 'punishment' that should be used as a response for the most grievous 'crimes' of murder we are forced to deal with (such as the bastard who raped and killed an 11 month infant discussed a page ago).

    Any action taken at all can be considered 'revenge' so again... no. If you are going to call the DP revenge, then you would need to do the same as life in prison. Your preference doesn't establish anything.

    And I can agree that it does do very little to deter people from committing crimes, but as has been established already... with its limited application (something like 0.004 percent of all murders receive the DP within DP states)... it has hardly had the chance to definitively prove one way or another its effectiveness as a deterrent.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    The death penalty is state sanctioned murder and simply revenge. It does nothing to deter people from committing capital crimes.

    Simply put... no.

    It's a 'punishment' that should be used as a response for the most grievous 'crimes' of murder we are forced to deal with (such as the bastard who raped and killed an 11 month infant discussed a page ago).

    Any action taken at all can be considered 'revenge' so again... no. If you are going to call the DP revenge, then you would need to do the same as life in prison. Your preference doesn't establish anything.

    And I can agree that it does do very little to deter people from committing crimes, but as has been established already... with its limited application (something like 0.004 percent of all murders receive the DP within DP states)... it has hardly had the chance to definitively prove one way or another its effectiveness as a deterrent.
    I don't agree with this. Imprisonment can, and should, be about sequestration from society. I don't think prison should be used for non-violent offenses at all, we should get away from the archaic penal style system.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    edited April 2015
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    The death penalty is state sanctioned murder and simply revenge. It does nothing to deter people from committing capital crimes.

    Simply put... no.

    It's a 'punishment' that should be used as a response for the most grievous 'crimes' of murder we are forced to deal with (such as the bastard who raped and killed an 11 month infant discussed a page ago).

    Any action taken at all can be considered 'revenge' so again... no. If you are going to call the DP revenge, then you would need to do the same as life in prison. Your preference doesn't establish anything.

    And I can agree that it does do very little to deter people from committing crimes, but as has been established already... with its limited application (something like 0.004 percent of all murders receive the DP within DP states)... it has hardly had the chance to definitively prove one way or another its effectiveness as a deterrent.
    So you're saying (state sanctioned) murder is a punishment for murder?

    As for imprisonment being revenge..... no it isnt. Its the removal from society of someonecwho has transgressed at the most heinous level. They took the life of someone, so life as they know it should be taken from them. One doesnt need to be killed for their life to be taken from them.
    Post edited by catefrances on
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  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    catefrances said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    The death penalty is state sanctioned murder and simply revenge. It does nothing to deter people from committing capital crimes.

    Simply put... no.

    It's a 'punishment' that should be used as a response for the most grievous 'crimes' of murder we are forced to deal with (such as the bastard who raped and killed an 11 month infant discussed a page ago).

    Any action taken at all can be considered 'revenge' so again... no. If you are going to call the DP revenge, then you would need to do the same as life in prison. Your preference doesn't establish anything.

    And I can agree that it does do very little to deter people from committing crimes, but as has been established already... with its limited application (something like 0.004 percent of all murders receive the DP within DP states)... it has hardly had the chance to definitively prove one way or another its effectiveness as a deterrent.
    So you're saying (state sanctioned) murder is a punishment for murder?
    I don't call it murder. You do.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited April 2015
    rgambs said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    The death penalty is state sanctioned murder and simply revenge. It does nothing to deter people from committing capital crimes.

    Simply put... no.

    It's a 'punishment' that should be used as a response for the most grievous 'crimes' of murder we are forced to deal with (such as the bastard who raped and killed an 11 month infant discussed a page ago).

    Any action taken at all can be considered 'revenge' so again... no. If you are going to call the DP revenge, then you would need to do the same as life in prison. Your preference doesn't establish anything.

    And I can agree that it does do very little to deter people from committing crimes, but as has been established already... with its limited application (something like 0.004 percent of all murders receive the DP within DP states)... it has hardly had the chance to definitively prove one way or another its effectiveness as a deterrent.
    I don't agree with this. Imprisonment can, and should, be about sequestration from society. I don't think prison should be used for non-violent offenses at all, we should get away from the archaic penal style system.
    What constitutes a non-violent offense and what should be the punishment instead?
    Getting away from the archaic penal style system is great if one can offer a suggestion along with the observation.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,008
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    The death penalty is state sanctioned murder and simply revenge. It does nothing to deter people from committing capital crimes.

    Simply put... no.

    It's a 'punishment' that should be used as a response for the most grievous 'crimes' of murder we are forced to deal with (such as the bastard who raped and killed an 11 month infant discussed a page ago).

    Any action taken at all can be considered 'revenge' so again... no. If you are going to call the DP revenge, then you would need to do the same as life in prison. Your preference doesn't establish anything.

    And I can agree that it does do very little to deter people from committing crimes, but as has been established already... with its limited application (something like 0.004 percent of all murders receive the DP within DP states)... it has hardly had the chance to definitively prove one way or another its effectiveness as a deterrent.
    So you're saying (state sanctioned) murder is a punishment for murder?
    I don't call it murder. You do.
    purposely ending a life is murder by definition.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    The death penalty is state sanctioned murder and simply revenge. It does nothing to deter people from committing capital crimes.

    Simply put... no.

    It's a 'punishment' that should be used as a response for the most grievous 'crimes' of murder we are forced to deal with (such as the bastard who raped and killed an 11 month infant discussed a page ago).

    Any action taken at all can be considered 'revenge' so again... no. If you are going to call the DP revenge, then you would need to do the same as life in prison. Your preference doesn't establish anything.

    And I can agree that it does do very little to deter people from committing crimes, but as has been established already... with its limited application (something like 0.004 percent of all murders receive the DP within DP states)... it has hardly had the chance to definitively prove one way or another its effectiveness as a deterrent.
    So you're saying (state sanctioned) murder is a punishment for murder?
    I don't call it murder. You do.
    purposely ending a life is murder by definition.
    a group of crows is defined as such as well
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    edited April 2015
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    The death penalty is state sanctioned murder and simply revenge. It does nothing to deter people from committing capital crimes.

    Simply put... no.

    It's a 'punishment' that should be used as a response for the most grievous 'crimes' of murder we are forced to deal with (such as the bastard who raped and killed an 11 month infant discussed a page ago).

    Any action taken at all can be considered 'revenge' so again... no. If you are going to call the DP revenge, then you would need to do the same as life in prison. Your preference doesn't establish anything.

    And I can agree that it does do very little to deter people from committing crimes, but as has been established already... with its limited application (something like 0.004 percent of all murders receive the DP within DP states)... it has hardly had the chance to definitively prove one way or another its effectiveness as a deterrent.
    So you're saying (state sanctioned) murder is a punishment for murder?
    I don't call it murder. You do.
    purposely ending a life is murder by definition.
    exactly. Murder is legal term connoting intent and aforethought.. if execution isnt intentional I dont know what is.

    Post edited by catefrances on
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  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,008
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    gimmesometruth27 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    The death penalty is state sanctioned murder and simply revenge. It does nothing to deter people from committing capital crimes.

    Simply put... no.

    It's a 'punishment' that should be used as a response for the most grievous 'crimes' of murder we are forced to deal with (such as the bastard who raped and killed an 11 month infant discussed a page ago).

    Any action taken at all can be considered 'revenge' so again... no. If you are going to call the DP revenge, then you would need to do the same as life in prison. Your preference doesn't establish anything.

    And I can agree that it does do very little to deter people from committing crimes, but as has been established already... with its limited application (something like 0.004 percent of all murders receive the DP within DP states)... it has hardly had the chance to definitively prove one way or another its effectiveness as a deterrent.
    So you're saying (state sanctioned) murder is a punishment for murder?
    I don't call it murder. You do.
    purposely ending a life is murder by definition.
    a group of crows is defined as such as well
    how does that apply to this particular discussion?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    gimmesometruth27 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    The death penalty is state sanctioned murder and simply revenge. It does nothing to deter people from committing capital crimes.

    Simply put... no.

    It's a 'punishment' that should be used as a response for the most grievous 'crimes' of murder we are forced to deal with (such as the bastard who raped and killed an 11 month infant discussed a page ago).

    Any action taken at all can be considered 'revenge' so again... no. If you are going to call the DP revenge, then you would need to do the same as life in prison. Your preference doesn't establish anything.

    And I can agree that it does do very little to deter people from committing crimes, but as has been established already... with its limited application (something like 0.004 percent of all murders receive the DP within DP states)... it has hardly had the chance to definitively prove one way or another its effectiveness as a deterrent.
    So you're saying (state sanctioned) murder is a punishment for murder?
    I don't call it murder. You do.
    purposely ending a life is murder by definition.
    a group of crows is defined as such as well
    how does that apply to this particular discussion?
    How a word in society has different definitions.

  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    gimmesometruth27 said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    gimmesometruth27 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    The death penalty is state sanctioned murder and simply revenge. It does nothing to deter people from committing capital crimes.

    Simply put... no.

    It's a 'punishment' that should be used as a response for the most grievous 'crimes' of murder we are forced to deal with (such as the bastard who raped and killed an 11 month infant discussed a page ago).

    Any action taken at all can be considered 'revenge' so again... no. If you are going to call the DP revenge, then you would need to do the same as life in prison. Your preference doesn't establish anything.

    And I can agree that it does do very little to deter people from committing crimes, but as has been established already... with its limited application (something like 0.004 percent of all murders receive the DP within DP states)... it has hardly had the chance to definitively prove one way or another its effectiveness as a deterrent.
    So you're saying (state sanctioned) murder is a punishment for murder?
    I don't call it murder. You do.
    purposely ending a life is murder by definition.
    a group of crows is defined as such as well
    how does that apply to this particular discussion?
    How a word in society has different definitions.

    Why you needed to answer that question fails me.

    If the DP is murder... then it goes without saying that imprisoning people is kidnapping them.

    Ridiculous.

    * I can accept 'execution' as an appropriate term for the DP though. For example: The serial murderer was executed for raping and murdering 12 children. 'Murdered' just doesn't fit. Sorry. And not even a good try.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    edited April 2015
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    gimmesometruth27 said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    gimmesometruth27 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    The death penalty is state sanctioned murder and simply revenge. It does nothing to deter people from committing capital crimes.

    Simply put... no.

    It's a 'punishment' that should be used as a response for the most grievous 'crimes' of murder we are forced to deal with (such as the bastard who raped and killed an 11 month infant discussed a page ago).

    Any action taken at all can be considered 'revenge' so again... no. If you are going to call the DP revenge, then you would need to do the same as life in prison. Your preference doesn't establish anything.

    And I can agree that it does do very little to deter people from committing crimes, but as has been established already... with its limited application (something like 0.004 percent of all murders receive the DP within DP states)... it has hardly had the chance to definitively prove one way or another its effectiveness as a deterrent.
    So you're saying (state sanctioned) murder is a punishment for murder?
    I don't call it murder. You do.
    purposely ending a life is murder by definition.
    a group of crows is defined as such as well
    how does that apply to this particular discussion?
    How a word in society has different definitions.

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    gimmesometruth27 said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    gimmesometruth27 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    The death penalty is state sanctioned murder and simply revenge. It does nothing to deter people from committing capital crimes.

    Simply put... no.

    It's a 'punishment' that should be used as a response for the most grievous 'crimes' of murder we are forced to deal with (such as the bastard who raped and killed an 11 month infant discussed a page ago).

    Any action taken at all can be considered 'revenge' so again... no. If you are going to call the DP revenge, then you would need to do the same as life in prison. Your preference doesn't establish anything.

    And I can agree that it does do very little to deter people from committing crimes, but as has been established already... with its limited application (something like 0.004 percent of all murders receive the DP within DP states)... it has hardly had the chance to definitively prove one way or another its effectiveness as a deterrent.
    So you're saying (state sanctioned) murder is a punishment for murder?
    I don't call it murder. You do.
    purposely ending a life is murder by definition.
    a group of crows is defined as such as well
    how does that apply to this particular discussion?
    How a word in society has different definitions.

    Why you needed to answer that question fails me.

    If the DP is murder... then it goes without saying that imprisoning people is kidnapping them.

    Ridiculous.

    * I can accept 'execution' as an appropriate term for the DP though. For example: The serial murderer was executed for raping and murdering 12 children. 'Murdered' just doesn't fit. Sorry. And not even a good try.

    Semantics...its a fine line isn't it?
    Post edited by catefrances on
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  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    I never quoted you because for some reason... the quotes appeared like a spectrum in your post.

    For me, it's not a fine line. I can see what you mean, but I'm just stuck on the natural and obvious consequences for certain crimes.

    I read and watch documentaries and movies with murderers and inevitably feel something for the offender; however, as badly as I might end up feeling for that person... I only need to think of what they have done and those feelings of empathy disappear.

    I think it comes down to how one chooses to maintain their focus.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I never quoted you because for some reason... the quotes appeared like a spectrum in your post.

    For me, it's not a fine line. I can see what you mean, but I'm just stuck on the natural and obvious consequences for certain crimes.

    I read and watch documentaries and movies with murderers and inevitably feel something for the offender; however, as badly as I might end up feeling for that person... I only need to think of what they have done and those feelings of empathy disappear.

    I think it comes down to how one chooses to maintain their focus.

    Natural consequences? Theyre only 'natural' because our so called civilised society have made it so. Somehow weve made it the norm to accept execution as punishment. I can not be one of those who sees it as such. I thought as a society wedve moved past killing our own for punishment.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    catefrances said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I never quoted you because for some reason... the quotes appeared like a spectrum in your post.

    For me, it's not a fine line. I can see what you mean, but I'm just stuck on the natural and obvious consequences for certain crimes.

    I read and watch documentaries and movies with murderers and inevitably feel something for the offender; however, as badly as I might end up feeling for that person... I only need to think of what they have done and those feelings of empathy disappear.

    I think it comes down to how one chooses to maintain their focus.

    Natural consequences? Theyre only 'natural' because our so called civilised society have made it so. Somehow weve made it the norm to accept execution as punishment. I can not be one of those who sees it as such. I thought as a society wedve moved past killing our own for punishment.
    So what are you?
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    catefrances said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I never quoted you because for some reason... the quotes appeared like a spectrum in your post.

    For me, it's not a fine line. I can see what you mean, but I'm just stuck on the natural and obvious consequences for certain crimes.

    I read and watch documentaries and movies with murderers and inevitably feel something for the offender; however, as badly as I might end up feeling for that person... I only need to think of what they have done and those feelings of empathy disappear.

    I think it comes down to how one chooses to maintain their focus.

    Natural consequences? Theyre only 'natural' because our so called civilised society have made it so. Somehow weve made it the norm to accept execution as punishment. I can not be one of those who sees it as such. I thought as a society wedve moved past killing our own for punishment.
    So we would be extremely civilized if we make the killer say sorry?

    For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. A serial or mass murderer shouldn't be expecting kindness when we catch and confront them, nor should anybody else.

    And we are not 'killing our own'... we are punishing someone who has opted to step out of society in as brutal fashion as possible- 'hardly human' despite the definition of the term (semantics works for both sides of this discussion).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    edited April 2015
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I never quoted you because for some reason... the quotes appeared like a spectrum in your post.

    For me, it's not a fine line. I can see what you mean, but I'm just stuck on the natural and obvious consequences for certain crimes.

    I read and watch documentaries and movies with murderers and inevitably feel something for the offender; however, as badly as I might end up feeling for that person... I only need to think of what they have done and those feelings of empathy disappear.

    I think it comes down to how one chooses to maintain their focus.

    Natural consequences? Theyre only 'natural' because our so called civilised society have made it so. Somehow weve made it the norm to accept execution as punishment. I can not be one of those who sees it as such. I thought as a society wedve moved past killing our own for punishment.
    So we would be extremely civilized if we make the killer say sorry?

    For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. A serial or mass murderer shouldn't be expecting kindness when we catch and confront them, nor should anybody else.

    And we are not 'killing our own'... we are punishing someone who has opted to step out of society in as brutal fashion as possible- 'hardly human' despite the definition of the term (semantics works for both sides of this discussion).
    Absolutely not. Simply saying sorry doesn't cut it. Killers should be removed from free society. They should pay for the life theyve take by being incarcerated for the term of their natural life. No chance of parole.
    And yes we are killing our own unless of course you think that ALL murderers somehow become less human simply because they kill.

    who are we executing murderers for anyway? It can't be for the murdered cause theyre dead and can no longer care. So if we execute for no one but ourselves how can we deem ourselves any better than the executed? Do we think we have right on our side? Afterall an eye for an eye turns the whole world blind.
    Post edited by catefrances on
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited April 2015
    catefrances said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    catefrances said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I never quoted you because for some reason... the quotes appeared like a spectrum in your post.

    For me, it's not a fine line. I can see what you mean, but I'm just stuck on the natural and obvious consequences for certain crimes.

    I read and watch documentaries and movies with murderers and inevitably feel something for the offender; however, as badly as I might end up feeling for that person... I only need to think of what they have done and those feelings of empathy disappear.

    I think it comes down to how one chooses to maintain their focus.

    Natural consequences? Theyre only 'natural' because our so called civilised society have made it so. Somehow weve made it the norm to accept execution as punishment. I can not be one of those who sees it as such. I thought as a society wedve moved past killing our own for punishment.
    So we would be extremely civilized if we make the killer say sorry?

    For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. A serial or mass murderer shouldn't be expecting kindness when we catch and confront them, nor should anybody else.

    And we are not 'killing our own'... we are punishing someone who has opted to step out of society in as brutal fashion as possible- 'hardly human' despite the definition of the term (semantics works for both sides of this discussion).

    Nt be for the murdered ause theyre dead and can no longer.
    ?

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