The Death Penalty

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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,904
    Maybe when they end solitary confinement, the correctional staff can give the inmates foot massages at the end of the day...or some of you soft on murders could volunteer to give them foot massages...
    Just curious - do you read at all what other people post? 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Paul Bernardo set for parole bid after 25 years in prison

    https://globalnews.ca/news/4557154/paul-bernardo-parole-bid/?utm_medium=Facebook&utm_source=GlobalToronto

    This asshole scumbag should have been hanging at the end of a noose 20 years ago, instead, this scumbag gets a parole hearing so he can re-traumatize his victim's families all over again...

    Oh yeah, Gooddale is tabling legislation to ban solitary confinement in Canada's prisons.  Next week he will introduce legislation to make sure the prison scum are served, gourmet meals...and the super bowl will be catered at all federal prisons by buffalo wild wings complete with an 80" TV ... wouldn't want low life scum to be uncomfortable. 

    What's not being mentioned about this article is the fact he was discovered to have a self constructed weapon in his cell, but the prosecution dropped the charges against him for this. Fair enough. Poor guy has endured a lot.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 46,854
    edited October 2018
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
     A worm like Brievik deserves nothing.
    I agree.
    I do too. I just don't think it's a relevant point in terms of the criminal justice system.
    It's completely relevant. What are you talking about?

    It just happens to be inconvenient to your position.
    What? No it's not. What are you talking about? It's not relevant IMO because it is not the criminal justice system's job to be vengeful. I'm sure that by now you understand my perspective on that. I don't even understand why you think it's inconvenient to my position. It's not at all.
    You're calling it ' being vengeful'. Others call it 'administering justice' which is most certainly the criminal justice system's job.
    There is no nation in the developed world where "administering justice" equates to providing nothing to inmates in the name of vengeance.
    Also, the PURPOSE of "administering justice" isn't what you seem to think it is. You seem to think that the justice system hands out justice in the biblical sense, which isn't the case. The administration of justice has one goal: to protect society via either isolation from society and/or deterrence to one degree or another (remembering that most criminals are released back into society eventually). Of course, it's been pretty well-established that the death penalty doesn't serve as a deterrence for the kinds of criminals who commit crimes DP supporters normally consider DP worthy.

    I'm not the one confused here. You are. Big time. 

    In particular, you don't seem to understand what the term 'justice' actually means. Administering justice is not keeping the rest of society safe from future harm- it's administering justice (from MW: the process or result of using laws to fairly judge and punish crimes and criminals).

    Further, you are purposely being obtuse by bringing up the 'deterrent argument' which has been established as moot for either side. It cannot be established one way or another whether it actually is a deterrent or not given its infrequent application. And I'm not arguing this aspect again with you. If you bring it up again in childlike fashion... then we're done discussing this topic. We can talk about cats or pizza.

    Lastly... exactly what are you talking about when you say: There is no nation in the developed world where "administering justice" equates to providing nothing to inmates in the name of vengeance. Huh? Norway is far from providing nothing to poor poor Anders and his crappy selection of video games and slow wifi.
    That is a really weird and aggressive post man, like some kind of overreaction to what I said. I am having a genuine conversation, not being purposely obtuse or childish.
    You have indeed misinterprwtted and even misread some of what I said, but I agree that you're not able to carry on with this conversation with me, so I won't bother clarifying.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
     A worm like Brievik deserves nothing.
    I agree.
    I do too. I just don't think it's a relevant point in terms of the criminal justice system.
    It's completely relevant. What are you talking about?

    It just happens to be inconvenient to your position.
    What? No it's not. What are you talking about? It's not relevant IMO because it is not the criminal justice system's job to be vengeful. I'm sure that by now you understand my perspective on that. I don't even understand why you think it's inconvenient to my position. It's not at all.
    You're calling it ' being vengeful'. Others call it 'administering justice' which is most certainly the criminal justice system's job.
    There is no nation in the developed world where "administering justice" equates to providing nothing to inmates in the name of vengeance.
    Also, the PURPOSE of "administering justice" isn't what you seem to think it is. You seem to think that the justice system hands out justice in the biblical sense, which isn't the case. The administration of justice has one goal: to protect society via either isolation from society and/or deterrence to one degree or another (remembering that most criminals are released back into society eventually). Of course, it's been pretty well-established that the death penalty doesn't serve as a deterrence for the kinds of criminals who commit crimes DP supporters normally consider DP worthy.

    I'm not the one confused here. You are. Big time. 

    In particular, you don't seem to understand what the term 'justice' actually means. Administering justice is not keeping the rest of society safe from future harm- it's administering justice (from MW: the process or result of using laws to fairly judge and punish crimes and criminals).

    Further, you are purposely being obtuse by bringing up the 'deterrent argument' which has been established as moot for either side. It cannot be established one way or another whether it actually is a deterrent or not given its infrequent application. And I'm not arguing this aspect again with you. If you bring it up again in childlike fashion... then we're done discussing this topic. We can talk about cats or pizza.

    Lastly... exactly what are you talking about when you say: There is no nation in the developed world where "administering justice" equates to providing nothing to inmates in the name of vengeance. Huh? Norway is far from providing nothing to poor poor Anders and his crappy selection of video games and slow wifi.
    That is a really weird and aggressive post man, like some kind of overreaction to what I said. I am having a genuine conversation, not being purposely obtuse or childish.
    You have indeed misinterprwtted and even misread some of what I said, but I agree that you're not able to carry on with this conversation with me, so I won't bother clarifying.

    Well holy Christ man.

    Several people have talked at length about the 'deterrent' argument and it being moot given the fact that neither side could establish such a claim given the poor testing parameters. This has been done several times and you have been part of these discussions... yet here... you carelessly toss it out there as a fact. One that I must now refute lest it stand as a given- a tiresome exercise and one I'm not interested in doing (despite the fact that I'm about to... aaaagain).

    When driving, do you slow your speed for fear of a ticket? I do. So do many others. If a ticket is a deterrent from going 10 miles over the speed limit... it's naturally logical to assume a death sentence would be a deterrent for some thinking about committing murder. No?

    If any murder was to result in death and the death penalty was assured in the event of a conviction... you don't think the prospect of death might make someone think? If even one person does... it is indeed a deterrent.

    Regardless of such speculation... it would be statistically impossible to establish with any degree of certainty that the DP works (or doesn't work) as a deterrent because it is not used in the capacity necessary to provide valid data (and no... I am not advocating we try it out for a while).

    * And I haven't misinterpreted anything from your post. Aside from asserting something that simply is inaccurate, you redefined justice and you erroneously detailed the 'purpose' of our justice system. By doing so you inflated your argument on falsehoods. 
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,855
    Maybe when they end solitary confinement, the correctional staff can give the inmates foot massages at the end of the day...or some of you soft on murders could volunteer to give them foot massages...
    Just curious - do you read at all what other people post? 
    Yes, why?  Just because i’m not a bleeding out heart for murderers.  How bout’ you?  Do you ever you use common sense?  Don’t you ever get tired of making excuses for pos scum who should be doing hard time, yeah probably not...
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,904
    Maybe when they end solitary confinement, the correctional staff can give the inmates foot massages at the end of the day...or some of you soft on murders could volunteer to give them foot massages...
    Just curious - do you read at all what other people post? 
    Yes, why?  Just because i’m not a bleeding out heart for murderers.  How bout’ you?  Do you ever you use common sense?  Don’t you ever get tired of making excuses for pos scum who should be doing hard time, yeah probably not...
    Just wondering if you ever take into account new information, like the fact that the majority of people ending up in solitary confinement are not murderers. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,855
    Maybe when they end solitary confinement, the correctional staff can give the inmates foot massages at the end of the day...or some of you soft on murders could volunteer to give them foot massages...
    Just curious - do you read at all what other people post? 
    Do you ever get tired of being bleeding heart for losers...
  • Maybe when they end solitary confinement, the correctional staff can give the inmates foot massages at the end of the day...or some of you soft on murders could volunteer to give them foot massages...
    Just curious - do you read at all what other people post? 
    Yes, why?  Just because i’m not a bleeding out heart for murderers.  How bout’ you?  Do you ever you use common sense?  Don’t you ever get tired of making excuses for pos scum who should be doing hard time, yeah probably not...
    Someone needs a hug.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,904
    Maybe when they end solitary confinement, the correctional staff can give the inmates foot massages at the end of the day...or some of you soft on murders could volunteer to give them foot massages...
    Just curious - do you read at all what other people post? 
    Do you ever get tired of being bleeding heart for losers...
    It can get a little tiring, having compassion and a respect for facts, but I think it's the right thing to do.

    Do you ever get tired living in hyperbole?
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Fantastic 'na-na-na-boo-boo' tilt right now!
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,855
    Maybe when they end solitary confinement, the correctional staff can give the inmates foot massages at the end of the day...or some of you soft on murders could volunteer to give them foot massages...
    Just curious - do you read at all what other people post? 
    Do you ever get tired of being bleeding heart for losers...
    It can get a little tiring, having compassion and a respect for facts, but I think it's the right thing to do.

    Do you ever get tired living in hyperbole?
    Have you ever listened to the victims of violent crime?  Or are you to busy virtue signaling, supporting the coddling of criminals.  If you DON"T like my opinions dont't respond.  Have you ever noticed I hardly ever respond to the shit you spew, nope...your bleeding heart opinion on criminals, prisoners mean nothing to me?  Do yourself a favour, save some keystrokes...I support capital punishment in the case of Paul Bernardo and his type.  I have sympathy for victims of violent crime and would never support a soft on crime agenda you liberals love...
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,904
    Maybe when they end solitary confinement, the correctional staff can give the inmates foot massages at the end of the day...or some of you soft on murders could volunteer to give them foot massages...
    Just curious - do you read at all what other people post? 
    Do you ever get tired of being bleeding heart for losers...
    It can get a little tiring, having compassion and a respect for facts, but I think it's the right thing to do.

    Do you ever get tired living in hyperbole?
    Have you ever listened to the victims of violent crime?  Or are you to busy virtue signaling, supporting the coddling of criminals.  If you DON"T like my opinions dont't respond.  Have you ever noticed I hardly ever respond to the shit you spew, nope...your bleeding heart opinion on criminals, prisoners mean nothing to me?  Do yourself a favour, save some keystrokes...I support capital punishment in the case of Paul Bernardo and his type.  I have sympathy for victims of violent crime and would never support a soft on crime agenda you liberals love...

    My goodness, there's a whole lot of responding for someone who doesn't respond. And you got all the buzz words in, too.

    Since I've worked in the criminal justice system for almost 15 years, I'd say I've spoken a hell of a lot more to people on all sides of the issue than you have, including victims.

    Feel free to respond, or not, as you choose. That's what this board is about. I'll do the same. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,855
    Paul Bernardo Makes Pitch For Parole After 25 Years In Prison

    https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/10/17/paul-bernardo-parole-hearing_a_23563799/?ncid=fcbklnkcahpmg00000001&fbclid=IwAR0oGVV1xmTpEfroWqBwMnCxuiSt4s--6ZRA2cvEFy0m4XV3_HrFAUJXwdg

    If they'd hung the son of a bitch the families would no longer need to go through this.   Wouldn't want the self-righteous offended that we put to death a useless piece of garbage...

  • If they'd hung the son of a bitch the families would no longer need to go through this.   Wouldn't want the self-righteous offended that we put to death a useless piece of garbage...
    God says you are not allowed to kill though. If I remember that Charlton Heston movie correctly. The same Charlton Heston you seem to try to mimic with your way of speaking.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,855

    If they'd hung the son of a bitch the families would no longer need to go through this.   Wouldn't want the self-righteous offended that we put to death a useless piece of garbage...
    God says you are not allowed to kill though. If I remember that Charlton Heston movie correctly. The same Charlton Heston you seem to try to mimic with your way of speaking.
    I don't believe in any bullshit God ... 

    My only concern is for the victims...once this POS was convicted all his rights should be stripped, especially the right to breath.

  • If they'd hung the son of a bitch the families would no longer need to go through this.   Wouldn't want the self-righteous offended that we put to death a useless piece of garbage...
    God says you are not allowed to kill though. If I remember that Charlton Heston movie correctly. The same Charlton Heston you seem to try to mimic with your way of speaking.
    I don't believe in any bullshit God ... 

    My only concern is for the victims...once this POS was convicted all his rights should be stripped, especially the right to breath.
    I agree on everything. But I don't think we should ever have the right to kill people.

    Can we meet somewhere in the middle?
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...

  • If they'd hung the son of a bitch the families would no longer need to go through this.   Wouldn't want the self-righteous offended that we put to death a useless piece of garbage...
    God says you are not allowed to kill though. If I remember that Charlton Heston movie correctly. The same Charlton Heston you seem to try to mimic with your way of speaking.
    I don't believe in any bullshit God ... 

    My only concern is for the victims...once this POS was convicted all his rights should be stripped, especially the right to breath.
    I agree on everything. But I don't think we should ever have the right to kill people.

    Can we meet somewhere in the middle?
    A buddy of mine and I used to debate this topic a ton. He suggested an island where we drop these types of turds of. Very similar to the 'No Escape' movie with Ray Liotta. No food. No drink. The losers fend for themselves (the island could provide).

    I think that is the middle way and something I could get behind. I certainly cannot get behind video games, internet, warm meals, and a laundry service.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,855

    If they'd hung the son of a bitch the families would no longer need to go through this.   Wouldn't want the self-righteous offended that we put to death a useless piece of garbage...
    God says you are not allowed to kill though. If I remember that Charlton Heston movie correctly. The same Charlton Heston you seem to try to mimic with your way of speaking.
    I don't believe in any bullshit God ... 

    My only concern is for the victims...once this POS was convicted all his rights should be stripped, especially the right to breath.
    I agree on everything. But I don't think we should ever have the right to kill people.

    Can we meet somewhere in the middle?
    A buddy of mine and I used to debate this topic a ton. He suggested an island where we drop these types of turds of. Very similar to the 'No Escape' movie with Ray Liotta. No food. No drink. The losers fend for themselves (the island could provide).

    I think that is the middle way and something I could get behind. I certainly cannot get behind video games, internet, warm meals, and a laundry service.
    Canada's Arctic would be the ideal spot.  Just build a prison.  Dropped the fuckers in there, give them a spoon, place a couple of dozen polar bears around the parameter...the results will be the same ... Death, only this will be death by polar bear.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,855

    If they'd hung the son of a bitch the families would no longer need to go through this.   Wouldn't want the self-righteous offended that we put to death a useless piece of garbage...
    God says you are not allowed to kill though. If I remember that Charlton Heston movie correctly. The same Charlton Heston you seem to try to mimic with your way of speaking.
    I don't believe in any bullshit God ... 

    My only concern is for the victims...once this POS was convicted all his rights should be stripped, especially the right to breath.
    I agree on everything. But I don't think we should ever have the right to kill people.

    Can we meet somewhere in the middle?
    When it comes to the likes of Paul Bernardo there is no middle ground.  This human garbage along with his human garbage of a wife videotaped their torture and rape of these 2 young ladies ... lets also not forget this lovely couple killed her sister, his sister-in-law...and the lame Canadian justice system has already set that bitch free.

    But I would happily throw him in general pop with a tattoo on a shaved head announcing his crimes.  The end result will be his death.  Any scenario I come up with, he dies.


  • If they'd hung the son of a bitch the families would no longer need to go through this.   Wouldn't want the self-righteous offended that we put to death a useless piece of garbage...
    God says you are not allowed to kill though. If I remember that Charlton Heston movie correctly. The same Charlton Heston you seem to try to mimic with your way of speaking.
    I don't believe in any bullshit God ... 

    My only concern is for the victims...once this POS was convicted all his rights should be stripped, especially the right to breath.
    I agree on everything. But I don't think we should ever have the right to kill people.

    Can we meet somewhere in the middle?
    A buddy of mine and I used to debate this topic a ton. He suggested an island where we drop these types of turds of. Very similar to the 'No Escape' movie with Ray Liotta. No food. No drink. The losers fend for themselves (the island could provide).

    I think that is the middle way and something I could get behind. I certainly cannot get behind video games, internet, warm meals, and a laundry service.
    I think that, first and foremost their stay should be self-paid for. So the prison system should be self-supporting without the primary funding coming from taxes (us people). As in - the prisoners has to work to have the lights on, get food, and prison officers employed etc. We should not pay, to keep them away from society because they choice to break the law.

    I also believe that conscious crimes to harm other people should have harder sentences. Life for murder as standard with no exceptions. If you decide to take someones life, to end that persons one and only life - then you have done something that in no way can be forgiven. You are gone from our society forever. You can't quantify the number of years for something like that.

    But I do not believe in the death penalty.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...

  • If they'd hung the son of a bitch the families would no longer need to go through this.   Wouldn't want the self-righteous offended that we put to death a useless piece of garbage...
    God says you are not allowed to kill though. If I remember that Charlton Heston movie correctly. The same Charlton Heston you seem to try to mimic with your way of speaking.
    I don't believe in any bullshit God ... 

    My only concern is for the victims...once this POS was convicted all his rights should be stripped, especially the right to breath.
    I agree on everything. But I don't think we should ever have the right to kill people.

    Can we meet somewhere in the middle?
    A buddy of mine and I used to debate this topic a ton. He suggested an island where we drop these types of turds of. Very similar to the 'No Escape' movie with Ray Liotta. No food. No drink. The losers fend for themselves (the island could provide).

    I think that is the middle way and something I could get behind. I certainly cannot get behind video games, internet, warm meals, and a laundry service.
    I think that, first and foremost their stay should be self-paid for. So the prison system should be self-supporting without the primary funding coming from taxes (us people). As in - the prisoners has to work to have the lights on, get food, and prison officers employed etc. We should not pay, to keep them away from society because they choice to break the law.

    I also believe that conscious crimes to harm other people should have harder sentences. Life for murder as standard with no exceptions. If you decide to take someones life, to end that persons one and only life - then you have done something that in no way can be forgiven. You are gone from our society forever. You can't quantify the number of years for something like that.

    But I do not believe in the death penalty.
    We inch closer together.

    I agree with the self sustainability notion. That's the general premise of 'the island': go make it work for yourself with nothing- no electricity, no tools, no additional clothing. Every now and then a massive 'care package' might get dropped off on the island and the inhabitants can forage for something that might be useful to them.

    It's a fighting chance is all it is. It's all guys like the guys we are talking about deserve. It'll also never happen.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 46,854
    edited October 2018
    Paul Bernardo Makes Pitch For Parole After 25 Years In Prison

    https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/10/17/paul-bernardo-parole-hearing_a_23563799/?ncid=fcbklnkcahpmg00000001&fbclid=IwAR0oGVV1xmTpEfroWqBwMnCxuiSt4s--6ZRA2cvEFy0m4XV3_HrFAUJXwdg

    If they'd hung the son of a bitch the families would no longer need to go through this.   Wouldn't want the self-righteous offended that we put to death a useless piece of garbage...
    The easy solution to this is to have sentences of life without parole in Canada. I'm personally in support of that.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,904
    PJ_Soul said:
    Paul Bernardo Makes Pitch For Parole After 25 Years In Prison

    https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/10/17/paul-bernardo-parole-hearing_a_23563799/?ncid=fcbklnkcahpmg00000001&fbclid=IwAR0oGVV1xmTpEfroWqBwMnCxuiSt4s--6ZRA2cvEFy0m4XV3_HrFAUJXwdg

    If they'd hung the son of a bitch the families would no longer need to go through this.   Wouldn't want the self-righteous offended that we put to death a useless piece of garbage...
    The easy solution to this is to have sentences of life without parole in Canada. I'm personally in support of that.
    Yes, me too, in such cases. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • The easiest solution is to actually dispose of the disgusting rodents that have been caught after crawling from their holes and killing our children.

    Life without parole (and healing houses) means a significant investment of financial and human resources that the majority of Canadians simply do not want to spend given what it is wasted on.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 46,854
    edited October 2018
    The easiest solution is to actually dispose of the disgusting rodents that have been caught after crawling from their holes and killing our children.

    Life without parole (and healing houses) means a significant investment of financial and human resources that the majority of Canadians simply do not want to spend given what it is wasted on.
    I don't understand the point in such a perspective. You know it's completely unrealistic anyhow. Why not deal with reality? You know as well as the rest of us that the process of realistic capital punishment within the existing justice system actually ends up costing more than life in prison.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul said:
    The easiest solution is to actually dispose of the disgusting rodents that have been caught after crawling from their holes and killing our children.

    Life without parole (and healing houses) means a significant investment of financial and human resources that the majority of Canadians simply do not want to spend given what it is wasted on.
    I don't understand the point in such a perspective. You know it's completely unrealistic anyhow. Why not deal with reality? You know as well as the rest of us that the process of realistic capital punishment within the existing justice system actually ends up costing more than life in prison.

    I do deal with reality. Just because I'm served a shit sandwich, it doesn't mean I have to eat it.

    It's only unrealistic until it's not. The pendulum has swung way too far to the (for lack of better term) liberal viewpoint on crime and punishment. There will be changes at some point. I don't mind having these discussions until such a time. 

    And the process of capital punishment is more costly because we make it so. It could be far more efficient. Regardless, costs incurred one way or another is not relevant to the argument of whether or not the DP is appropriate.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,021
    sometimes I see this thread as no more than people trying their best to come up with the most creative way to descirbe their hatred for this thread. 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 46,854
    Welcome back HFD. :)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,021
    needed to stay away for a while. probably not long enough. 
  • sometimes I see this thread as no more than people trying their best to come up with the most creative way to descirbe their hatred for this thread. 

    I have no idea what you're getting at. I actually think- exceptions (that are naturally going to occur) aside- there has been some outstanding dialogue in this thread.

    Overall, I've personally enjoyed my time in it discussing this issue. If you're done with it though... you should just avoid it. I do that with some threads.

    * By the way, I saw Dark Harvest the other day starring Hugh Dillon. Thought of you lol. 
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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