The Death Penalty

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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,808
    with the exception of Wind River, and of course Hard Core Logo, I generally don't think much of his acting. Haven't seen Dark Harvest.  
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/crimeincanada/weve-got-her-hopeful-officer-yelled-upon-discovery-of-childs-body-downey-murder-trial-hears/ar-BBQjPEX?ocid=spartanntp

    He needs to go. I know it's not a possibility. A human being is not capable of doing such a thing- a reptile is though.

    What a f**king drag.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,373
    Interesting article on the DP in the US that highlights concerns around inequitable application, among other problems.

    The line "there are no wealthy people on death row" really sums it up.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-america-death-penalty-crisis_us_5bf5a203e4b0eb6d930b1201
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Interesting article on the DP in the US that highlights concerns around inequitable application, among other problems.

    The line "there are no wealthy people on death row" really sums it up.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-america-death-penalty-crisis_us_5bf5a203e4b0eb6d930b1201

    That line doesn't actually sum it up as tidily as you suggest- it's much more complex than get the poor. There are many factors why wealthy people aren't on death row as much as poor people (education, upbringing, the ability to pay for a strong defence, etc.). 

    The piece you submitted calls to question current practices for administering the DP. I agree that we need to get better at executing people that need to be executed; however, I'm not losing an ounce of sleep over some of the botched executions the piece describes.

    For example, am I supposed to feel sorry for Clayton Lockett because his execution was a calamity? Because if I am... I don't. His last victim was kidnapped, beaten, sodomized, and buried alive. Her ordeal was a hell of a lot worse and completely undeserved, yet this article doesn't speak to that aspect of this case when it tries to paint Lockett as a victim here.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,373
    Interesting article on the DP in the US that highlights concerns around inequitable application, among other problems.

    The line "there are no wealthy people on death row" really sums it up.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-america-death-penalty-crisis_us_5bf5a203e4b0eb6d930b1201

    That line doesn't actually sum it up as tidily as you suggest- it's much more complex than get the poor. There are many factors why wealthy people aren't on death row as much as poor people (education, upbringing, the ability to pay for a strong defence, etc.). 

    The piece you submitted calls to question current practices for administering the DP. I agree that we need to get better at executing people that need to be executed; however, I'm not losing an ounce of sleep over some of the botched executions the piece describes.

    For example, am I supposed to feel sorry for Clayton Lockett because his execution was a calamity? Because if I am... I don't. His last victim was kidnapped, beaten, sodomized, and buried alive. Her ordeal was a hell of a lot worse and completely undeserved, yet this article doesn't speak to that aspect of this case when it tries to paint Lockett as a victim here.
    Did I say that the point was “get the poor”? Of course not. The whole point is the inequity in ability to pay for a competent defence, given that the crimes of the poor are not by definition any worse than the crimes of the rich. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Interesting article on the DP in the US that highlights concerns around inequitable application, among other problems.

    The line "there are no wealthy people on death row" really sums it up.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-america-death-penalty-crisis_us_5bf5a203e4b0eb6d930b1201

    That line doesn't actually sum it up as tidily as you suggest- it's much more complex than get the poor. There are many factors why wealthy people aren't on death row as much as poor people (education, upbringing, the ability to pay for a strong defence, etc.). 

    The piece you submitted calls to question current practices for administering the DP. I agree that we need to get better at executing people that need to be executed; however, I'm not losing an ounce of sleep over some of the botched executions the piece describes.

    For example, am I supposed to feel sorry for Clayton Lockett because his execution was a calamity? Because if I am... I don't. His last victim was kidnapped, beaten, sodomized, and buried alive. Her ordeal was a hell of a lot worse and completely undeserved, yet this article doesn't speak to that aspect of this case when it tries to paint Lockett as a victim here.
    Did I say that the point was “get the poor”? Of course not. The whole point is the inequity in ability to pay for a competent defence, given that the crimes of the poor are not by definition any worse than the crimes of the rich. 

    So are you saying the poor need a more equitable method of getting away with murder?

    My way of looking at this is to determine how we can limit lawyers and their savviness for helping rich clients get away with murder through the exploitation of well-intended law.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,373
    Interesting article on the DP in the US that highlights concerns around inequitable application, among other problems.

    The line "there are no wealthy people on death row" really sums it up.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-america-death-penalty-crisis_us_5bf5a203e4b0eb6d930b1201

    That line doesn't actually sum it up as tidily as you suggest- it's much more complex than get the poor. There are many factors why wealthy people aren't on death row as much as poor people (education, upbringing, the ability to pay for a strong defence, etc.). 

    The piece you submitted calls to question current practices for administering the DP. I agree that we need to get better at executing people that need to be executed; however, I'm not losing an ounce of sleep over some of the botched executions the piece describes.

    For example, am I supposed to feel sorry for Clayton Lockett because his execution was a calamity? Because if I am... I don't. His last victim was kidnapped, beaten, sodomized, and buried alive. Her ordeal was a hell of a lot worse and completely undeserved, yet this article doesn't speak to that aspect of this case when it tries to paint Lockett as a victim here.
    Did I say that the point was “get the poor”? Of course not. The whole point is the inequity in ability to pay for a competent defence, given that the crimes of the poor are not by definition any worse than the crimes of the rich. 

    So are you saying the poor need a more equitable method of getting away with murder?

    My way of looking at this is to determine how we can limit lawyers and their savviness for helping rich clients get away with murder through the exploitation of well-intended law.
    Oh jeez.  This again. 

    Just look at the numbers of falsely convicted on death row, and the numbers that have been executed despite strong evidence of guilt, to see what I mean, instead of imposing your own garbage on me. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Interesting article on the DP in the US that highlights concerns around inequitable application, among other problems.

    The line "there are no wealthy people on death row" really sums it up.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-america-death-penalty-crisis_us_5bf5a203e4b0eb6d930b1201

    That line doesn't actually sum it up as tidily as you suggest- it's much more complex than get the poor. There are many factors why wealthy people aren't on death row as much as poor people (education, upbringing, the ability to pay for a strong defence, etc.). 

    The piece you submitted calls to question current practices for administering the DP. I agree that we need to get better at executing people that need to be executed; however, I'm not losing an ounce of sleep over some of the botched executions the piece describes.

    For example, am I supposed to feel sorry for Clayton Lockett because his execution was a calamity? Because if I am... I don't. His last victim was kidnapped, beaten, sodomized, and buried alive. Her ordeal was a hell of a lot worse and completely undeserved, yet this article doesn't speak to that aspect of this case when it tries to paint Lockett as a victim here.
    Did I say that the point was “get the poor”? Of course not. The whole point is the inequity in ability to pay for a competent defence, given that the crimes of the poor are not by definition any worse than the crimes of the rich. 

    So are you saying the poor need a more equitable method of getting away with murder?

    My way of looking at this is to determine how we can limit lawyers and their savviness for helping rich clients get away with murder through the exploitation of well-intended law.
    Oh jeez.  This again. 

    Just look at the numbers of falsely convicted on death row, and the numbers that have been executed despite strong evidence of guilt, to see what I mean, instead of imposing your own garbage on me. 
    When you said: The whole point is the inequity in ability to pay for a competent defence, given that the crimes of the poor are not by definition any worse than the crimes of the rich... we weren't exactly talking about false conviction rates (which are somewhere in the neighbourhood of 4% of all convictions). We were talking about the claim your article made that 'there are no wealthy people on death row'.

    There were no numbers supporting such a sweeping claim. There wasn't even a definition of what 'wealthy' might even be in the context presented. The inequitable application would certainly have something to do with the opportunity to afford a stronger defence that might generate an acquittal; however, there are a number of other significant factors attributing to such a situation (it's not so simple that one can comfortably chalk it up to 'really poor defences').

    Further, the entire wrongful conviction concept falls on the trial process versus the sentencing process in my mind.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,154

  • What a loser.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • So I watched the Bundy Files on Netflix.

    I forgot a lot about that story- in particular, his two escapes from jail (the second allowing him to make his way to Florida and slayed three more women). I don't know which is worse- the Dahmer cops that let Dahmer take his young victim back to his house after he had escaped it- naked and bloody... or the jailhouse idiots that let him escape TWICE?

    An appalling story for so many reasons- one being how much he thought of himself and how little he regarded the beautiful women he murdered (he truly saw them as insignificant). He was a sociopath of the highest order.

    He sure thought he was cute and clever at his trial. I loved his expression when the verdicts were read. 

    As we all know, he was executed. There was a big festival outside the prison when the execution took place- people rejoicing in the fact that Ted was frying. I didn't care for the party Floridians held as Ted paid for his crimes, but I feel the DP was the only penalty fitting for the prick given his crimes were so egregious. If we can spray mosquitoes with Off without batting an eye... then we can fry a hunk of shit like Ted.

    (By the way... I loved Jane's Addiction's Ted, Just Admit It.)
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,597
    So I watched the Bundy Files on Netflix.

    I forgot a lot about that story- in particular, his two escapes from jail (the second allowing him to make his way to Florida and slayed three more women). I don't know which is worse- the Dahmer cops that let Dahmer take his young victim back to his house after he had escaped it- naked and bloody... or the jailhouse idiots that let him escape TWICE?

    An appalling story for so many reasons- one being how much he thought of himself and how little he regarded the beautiful women he murdered (he truly saw them as insignificant). He was a sociopath of the highest order.

    He sure thought he was cute and clever at his trial. I loved his expression when the verdicts were read. 

    As we all know, he was executed. There was a big festival outside the prison when the execution took place- people rejoicing in the fact that Ted was frying. I didn't care for the party Floridians held as Ted paid for his crimes, but I feel the DP was the only penalty fitting for the prick given his crimes were so egregious. If we can spray mosquitoes with Off without batting an eye... then we can fry a hunk of shit like Ted.

    (By the way... I loved Jane's Addiction's Ted, Just Admit It.)
    Yeah, I mentioned in the Netflix thread that I was reminded by this show that that incident definitely triggered by opposition to the death penalty, because I was so stricken and repulsed by that party outside. It was a great metaphor for why the DP is all about vengeance and a blood lust and a disregard for the taking of a life. It fully demonstrates the moral absurdity of capital punishment IMO.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,154
    Bruce McArthur killer of 8 people can go as well.
  • PJ_Soul said:
    So I watched the Bundy Files on Netflix.

    I forgot a lot about that story- in particular, his two escapes from jail (the second allowing him to make his way to Florida and slayed three more women). I don't know which is worse- the Dahmer cops that let Dahmer take his young victim back to his house after he had escaped it- naked and bloody... or the jailhouse idiots that let him escape TWICE?

    An appalling story for so many reasons- one being how much he thought of himself and how little he regarded the beautiful women he murdered (he truly saw them as insignificant). He was a sociopath of the highest order.

    He sure thought he was cute and clever at his trial. I loved his expression when the verdicts were read. 

    As we all know, he was executed. There was a big festival outside the prison when the execution took place- people rejoicing in the fact that Ted was frying. I didn't care for the party Floridians held as Ted paid for his crimes, but I feel the DP was the only penalty fitting for the prick given his crimes were so egregious. If we can spray mosquitoes with Off without batting an eye... then we can fry a hunk of shit like Ted.

    (By the way... I loved Jane's Addiction's Ted, Just Admit It.)
    Yeah, I mentioned in the Netflix thread that I was reminded by this show that that incident definitely triggered by opposition to the death penalty, because I was so stricken and repulsed by that party outside. It was a great metaphor for why the DP is all about vengeance and a blood lust and a disregard for the taking of a life. It fully demonstrates the moral absurdity of capital punishment IMO.
    It also demonstrated the value of the DP to silence such a horrific human being who simply put- wasn't worthy of life. His victims (and survivors) didn't need him flaunting his grotesque existence.

    But I agree with you regarding the 'party' atmosphere- completely unnecessary (although understood- there'll be big parties when Trump is dumped too).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,597
    edited January 30
    PJ_Soul said:
    So I watched the Bundy Files on Netflix.

    I forgot a lot about that story- in particular, his two escapes from jail (the second allowing him to make his way to Florida and slayed three more women). I don't know which is worse- the Dahmer cops that let Dahmer take his young victim back to his house after he had escaped it- naked and bloody... or the jailhouse idiots that let him escape TWICE?

    An appalling story for so many reasons- one being how much he thought of himself and how little he regarded the beautiful women he murdered (he truly saw them as insignificant). He was a sociopath of the highest order.

    He sure thought he was cute and clever at his trial. I loved his expression when the verdicts were read. 

    As we all know, he was executed. There was a big festival outside the prison when the execution took place- people rejoicing in the fact that Ted was frying. I didn't care for the party Floridians held as Ted paid for his crimes, but I feel the DP was the only penalty fitting for the prick given his crimes were so egregious. If we can spray mosquitoes with Off without batting an eye... then we can fry a hunk of shit like Ted.

    (By the way... I loved Jane's Addiction's Ted, Just Admit It.)
    Yeah, I mentioned in the Netflix thread that I was reminded by this show that that incident definitely triggered by opposition to the death penalty, because I was so stricken and repulsed by that party outside. It was a great metaphor for why the DP is all about vengeance and a blood lust and a disregard for the taking of a life. It fully demonstrates the moral absurdity of capital punishment IMO.
    It also demonstrated the value of the DP to silence such a horrific human being who simply put- wasn't worthy of life. His victims (and survivors) didn't need him flaunting his grotesque existence.

    But I agree with you regarding the 'party' atmosphere- completely unnecessary (although understood- there'll be big parties when Trump is dumped too).
    I have to disagree on that point too... Nobody had to pay him any attention in prison. He could have easily been silenced by not letting him have reporters come and talk to him. Also, days before he was murdered, he decided to try and delay it by starting to reveal where all the unrecovered bodies were. Some of those vicitms were Jane Does. I bet there are some families out there who still don't actually know what happened to their daughters. Bundy might have lead authorities to those victims if he hadn't been killed.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So I watched the Bundy Files on Netflix.

    I forgot a lot about that story- in particular, his two escapes from jail (the second allowing him to make his way to Florida and slayed three more women). I don't know which is worse- the Dahmer cops that let Dahmer take his young victim back to his house after he had escaped it- naked and bloody... or the jailhouse idiots that let him escape TWICE?

    An appalling story for so many reasons- one being how much he thought of himself and how little he regarded the beautiful women he murdered (he truly saw them as insignificant). He was a sociopath of the highest order.

    He sure thought he was cute and clever at his trial. I loved his expression when the verdicts were read. 

    As we all know, he was executed. There was a big festival outside the prison when the execution took place- people rejoicing in the fact that Ted was frying. I didn't care for the party Floridians held as Ted paid for his crimes, but I feel the DP was the only penalty fitting for the prick given his crimes were so egregious. If we can spray mosquitoes with Off without batting an eye... then we can fry a hunk of shit like Ted.

    (By the way... I loved Jane's Addiction's Ted, Just Admit It.)
    Yeah, I mentioned in the Netflix thread that I was reminded by this show that that incident definitely triggered by opposition to the death penalty, because I was so stricken and repulsed by that party outside. It was a great metaphor for why the DP is all about vengeance and a blood lust and a disregard for the taking of a life. It fully demonstrates the moral absurdity of capital punishment IMO.
    It also demonstrated the value of the DP to silence such a horrific human being who simply put- wasn't worthy of life. His victims (and survivors) didn't need him flaunting his grotesque existence.

    But I agree with you regarding the 'party' atmosphere- completely unnecessary (although understood- there'll be big parties when Trump is dumped too).
    I have to disagree on that point too... Nobody had to pay him any attention in prison. He could have easily been silenced by not letting him have reporters come and talk to him. Also, days before he was murdered, he decided to try and delay it by starting to reveal where all the unrecovered bodies were. Some of those vicitms were Jane Does. I bet there are some families out there who still don't actually know what happened to their daughters. Bundy might have lead authorities to those victims if he hadn't been killed.
    We can disagree.

    Cheers!
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,597
    edited January 30
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So I watched the Bundy Files on Netflix.

    I forgot a lot about that story- in particular, his two escapes from jail (the second allowing him to make his way to Florida and slayed three more women). I don't know which is worse- the Dahmer cops that let Dahmer take his young victim back to his house after he had escaped it- naked and bloody... or the jailhouse idiots that let him escape TWICE?

    An appalling story for so many reasons- one being how much he thought of himself and how little he regarded the beautiful women he murdered (he truly saw them as insignificant). He was a sociopath of the highest order.

    He sure thought he was cute and clever at his trial. I loved his expression when the verdicts were read. 

    As we all know, he was executed. There was a big festival outside the prison when the execution took place- people rejoicing in the fact that Ted was frying. I didn't care for the party Floridians held as Ted paid for his crimes, but I feel the DP was the only penalty fitting for the prick given his crimes were so egregious. If we can spray mosquitoes with Off without batting an eye... then we can fry a hunk of shit like Ted.

    (By the way... I loved Jane's Addiction's Ted, Just Admit It.)
    Yeah, I mentioned in the Netflix thread that I was reminded by this show that that incident definitely triggered by opposition to the death penalty, because I was so stricken and repulsed by that party outside. It was a great metaphor for why the DP is all about vengeance and a blood lust and a disregard for the taking of a life. It fully demonstrates the moral absurdity of capital punishment IMO.
    It also demonstrated the value of the DP to silence such a horrific human being who simply put- wasn't worthy of life. His victims (and survivors) didn't need him flaunting his grotesque existence.

    But I agree with you regarding the 'party' atmosphere- completely unnecessary (although understood- there'll be big parties when Trump is dumped too).
    I have to disagree on that point too... Nobody had to pay him any attention in prison. He could have easily been silenced by not letting him have reporters come and talk to him. Also, days before he was murdered, he decided to try and delay it by starting to reveal where all the unrecovered bodies were. Some of those vicitms were Jane Does. I bet there are some families out there who still don't actually know what happened to their daughters. Bundy might have lead authorities to those victims if he hadn't been killed.
    We can disagree.

    Cheers!
    I never understood how they could justify putting any serial killer to death, when in so many cases they say they suspect they killed far more people than he was convicted of, and far more people than they have been able to identify. I think the #1 priority should be to get any and all info out of that killer so that they can try and solve a ton of cold cases related to the convict. Murdering them while they believe he committed more murders than they know about makes absolutely no sense to me. I never see supporters of the DP worry about that, but I never understood why it wasn't higher on their priority list than vengeance.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,584
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So I watched the Bundy Files on Netflix.

    I forgot a lot about that story- in particular, his two escapes from jail (the second allowing him to make his way to Florida and slayed three more women). I don't know which is worse- the Dahmer cops that let Dahmer take his young victim back to his house after he had escaped it- naked and bloody... or the jailhouse idiots that let him escape TWICE?

    An appalling story for so many reasons- one being how much he thought of himself and how little he regarded the beautiful women he murdered (he truly saw them as insignificant). He was a sociopath of the highest order.

    He sure thought he was cute and clever at his trial. I loved his expression when the verdicts were read. 

    As we all know, he was executed. There was a big festival outside the prison when the execution took place- people rejoicing in the fact that Ted was frying. I didn't care for the party Floridians held as Ted paid for his crimes, but I feel the DP was the only penalty fitting for the prick given his crimes were so egregious. If we can spray mosquitoes with Off without batting an eye... then we can fry a hunk of shit like Ted.

    (By the way... I loved Jane's Addiction's Ted, Just Admit It.)
    Yeah, I mentioned in the Netflix thread that I was reminded by this show that that incident definitely triggered by opposition to the death penalty, because I was so stricken and repulsed by that party outside. It was a great metaphor for why the DP is all about vengeance and a blood lust and a disregard for the taking of a life. It fully demonstrates the moral absurdity of capital punishment IMO.
    It also demonstrated the value of the DP to silence such a horrific human being who simply put- wasn't worthy of life. His victims (and survivors) didn't need him flaunting his grotesque existence.

    But I agree with you regarding the 'party' atmosphere- completely unnecessary (although understood- there'll be big parties when Trump is dumped too).
    I have to disagree on that point too... Nobody had to pay him any attention in prison. He could have easily been silenced by not letting him have reporters come and talk to him. Also, days before he was murdered, he decided to try and delay it by starting to reveal where all the unrecovered bodies were. Some of those vicitms were Jane Does. I bet there are some families out there who still don't actually know what happened to their daughters. Bundy might have lead authorities to those victims if he hadn't been killed.
    We can disagree.

    Cheers!
    I never understood how they could justify putting any serial killer to death, when in so many cases they say they suspect they killed far more people than he was convicted of, and far more people than they have been able to identify. I think the #1 priority should be to get any and all info out of that killer so that they can try and solve a ton of cold cases related to the convict. Murdering them while they believe he committed more murders than they know about makes absolutely no sense to me. I never see supporters of the DP worry about that, but I never understood why it wasn't higher on their priority list than vengeance.
    Ted Bundy broke out of jail and killed more people. It’s not always about vegence. 

    It is an interesting point you raise but I’m guessing they got to a point where they were no longer getting information. 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So I watched the Bundy Files on Netflix.

    I forgot a lot about that story- in particular, his two escapes from jail (the second allowing him to make his way to Florida and slayed three more women). I don't know which is worse- the Dahmer cops that let Dahmer take his young victim back to his house after he had escaped it- naked and bloody... or the jailhouse idiots that let him escape TWICE?

    An appalling story for so many reasons- one being how much he thought of himself and how little he regarded the beautiful women he murdered (he truly saw them as insignificant). He was a sociopath of the highest order.

    He sure thought he was cute and clever at his trial. I loved his expression when the verdicts were read. 

    As we all know, he was executed. There was a big festival outside the prison when the execution took place- people rejoicing in the fact that Ted was frying. I didn't care for the party Floridians held as Ted paid for his crimes, but I feel the DP was the only penalty fitting for the prick given his crimes were so egregious. If we can spray mosquitoes with Off without batting an eye... then we can fry a hunk of shit like Ted.

    (By the way... I loved Jane's Addiction's Ted, Just Admit It.)
    Yeah, I mentioned in the Netflix thread that I was reminded by this show that that incident definitely triggered by opposition to the death penalty, because I was so stricken and repulsed by that party outside. It was a great metaphor for why the DP is all about vengeance and a blood lust and a disregard for the taking of a life. It fully demonstrates the moral absurdity of capital punishment IMO.
    It also demonstrated the value of the DP to silence such a horrific human being who simply put- wasn't worthy of life. His victims (and survivors) didn't need him flaunting his grotesque existence.

    But I agree with you regarding the 'party' atmosphere- completely unnecessary (although understood- there'll be big parties when Trump is dumped too).
    I have to disagree on that point too... Nobody had to pay him any attention in prison. He could have easily been silenced by not letting him have reporters come and talk to him. Also, days before he was murdered, he decided to try and delay it by starting to reveal where all the unrecovered bodies were. Some of those vicitms were Jane Does. I bet there are some families out there who still don't actually know what happened to their daughters. Bundy might have lead authorities to those victims if he hadn't been killed.
    We can disagree.

    Cheers!
    I never understood how they could justify putting any serial killer to death, when in so many cases they say they suspect they killed far more people than he was convicted of, and far more people than they have been able to identify. I think the #1 priority should be to get any and all info out of that killer so that they can try and solve a ton of cold cases related to the convict. Murdering them while they believe he committed more murders than they know about makes absolutely no sense to me. I never see supporters of the DP worry about that, but I never understood why it wasn't higher on their priority list than vengeance.
    Because their victims deserve 'justice'. You're calling it 'vengeance', but others (like me) don't see it that way.

    The penalty should fit the crime: look at the photos of those women. Think of their last moments and how horrific those moments were. Think of the brutality that was repeatedly demonstrated. Think of the survivors trying to reconcile what happened and move forward with some level of closure. And then think what should naturally occur as a result. If one thinks a comfy mattress with warm meals cooked for them, movies, and a laundry service is appropriate... then I'm not too sure what to say?

    Anyways... we can disagree. Cheers!
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,597
    edited January 30
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So I watched the Bundy Files on Netflix.

    I forgot a lot about that story- in particular, his two escapes from jail (the second allowing him to make his way to Florida and slayed three more women). I don't know which is worse- the Dahmer cops that let Dahmer take his young victim back to his house after he had escaped it- naked and bloody... or the jailhouse idiots that let him escape TWICE?

    An appalling story for so many reasons- one being how much he thought of himself and how little he regarded the beautiful women he murdered (he truly saw them as insignificant). He was a sociopath of the highest order.

    He sure thought he was cute and clever at his trial. I loved his expression when the verdicts were read. 

    As we all know, he was executed. There was a big festival outside the prison when the execution took place- people rejoicing in the fact that Ted was frying. I didn't care for the party Floridians held as Ted paid for his crimes, but I feel the DP was the only penalty fitting for the prick given his crimes were so egregious. If we can spray mosquitoes with Off without batting an eye... then we can fry a hunk of shit like Ted.

    (By the way... I loved Jane's Addiction's Ted, Just Admit It.)
    Yeah, I mentioned in the Netflix thread that I was reminded by this show that that incident definitely triggered by opposition to the death penalty, because I was so stricken and repulsed by that party outside. It was a great metaphor for why the DP is all about vengeance and a blood lust and a disregard for the taking of a life. It fully demonstrates the moral absurdity of capital punishment IMO.
    It also demonstrated the value of the DP to silence such a horrific human being who simply put- wasn't worthy of life. His victims (and survivors) didn't need him flaunting his grotesque existence.

    But I agree with you regarding the 'party' atmosphere- completely unnecessary (although understood- there'll be big parties when Trump is dumped too).
    I have to disagree on that point too... Nobody had to pay him any attention in prison. He could have easily been silenced by not letting him have reporters come and talk to him. Also, days before he was murdered, he decided to try and delay it by starting to reveal where all the unrecovered bodies were. Some of those vicitms were Jane Does. I bet there are some families out there who still don't actually know what happened to their daughters. Bundy might have lead authorities to those victims if he hadn't been killed.
    We can disagree.

    Cheers!
    I never understood how they could justify putting any serial killer to death, when in so many cases they say they suspect they killed far more people than he was convicted of, and far more people than they have been able to identify. I think the #1 priority should be to get any and all info out of that killer so that they can try and solve a ton of cold cases related to the convict. Murdering them while they believe he committed more murders than they know about makes absolutely no sense to me. I never see supporters of the DP worry about that, but I never understood why it wasn't higher on their priority list than vengeance.
    Ted Bundy broke out of jail and killed more people. It’s not always about vegence. 

    It is an interesting point you raise but I’m guessing they got to a point where they were no longer getting information. 
    Yeah, but he wasn't going to break out of maximum security prison. He broke out of an office in a courthouse, and then out of a jail cell with a hole in the ceiling and killed more people, before he even had a trial. So that doesn't really mean anything as far as the reasoning behind the DP goes. Nobody in maximum security prison, convicted for crimes like that, is going to be able to escape. I totally agree that making sure violent criminals aren't a danger to society is a HUGE deal... that is why some of the sentences we see for violent people piss me off so much.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,584
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So I watched the Bundy Files on Netflix.

    I forgot a lot about that story- in particular, his two escapes from jail (the second allowing him to make his way to Florida and slayed three more women). I don't know which is worse- the Dahmer cops that let Dahmer take his young victim back to his house after he had escaped it- naked and bloody... or the jailhouse idiots that let him escape TWICE?

    An appalling story for so many reasons- one being how much he thought of himself and how little he regarded the beautiful women he murdered (he truly saw them as insignificant). He was a sociopath of the highest order.

    He sure thought he was cute and clever at his trial. I loved his expression when the verdicts were read. 

    As we all know, he was executed. There was a big festival outside the prison when the execution took place- people rejoicing in the fact that Ted was frying. I didn't care for the party Floridians held as Ted paid for his crimes, but I feel the DP was the only penalty fitting for the prick given his crimes were so egregious. If we can spray mosquitoes with Off without batting an eye... then we can fry a hunk of shit like Ted.

    (By the way... I loved Jane's Addiction's Ted, Just Admit It.)
    Yeah, I mentioned in the Netflix thread that I was reminded by this show that that incident definitely triggered by opposition to the death penalty, because I was so stricken and repulsed by that party outside. It was a great metaphor for why the DP is all about vengeance and a blood lust and a disregard for the taking of a life. It fully demonstrates the moral absurdity of capital punishment IMO.
    It also demonstrated the value of the DP to silence such a horrific human being who simply put- wasn't worthy of life. His victims (and survivors) didn't need him flaunting his grotesque existence.

    But I agree with you regarding the 'party' atmosphere- completely unnecessary (although understood- there'll be big parties when Trump is dumped too).
    I have to disagree on that point too... Nobody had to pay him any attention in prison. He could have easily been silenced by not letting him have reporters come and talk to him. Also, days before he was murdered, he decided to try and delay it by starting to reveal where all the unrecovered bodies were. Some of those vicitms were Jane Does. I bet there are some families out there who still don't actually know what happened to their daughters. Bundy might have lead authorities to those victims if he hadn't been killed.
    We can disagree.

    Cheers!
    I never understood how they could justify putting any serial killer to death, when in so many cases they say they suspect they killed far more people than he was convicted of, and far more people than they have been able to identify. I think the #1 priority should be to get any and all info out of that killer so that they can try and solve a ton of cold cases related to the convict. Murdering them while they believe he committed more murders than they know about makes absolutely no sense to me. I never see supporters of the DP worry about that, but I never understood why it wasn't higher on their priority list than vengeance.
    Ted Bundy broke out of jail and killed more people. It’s not always about vegence. 

    It is an interesting point you raise but I’m guessing they got to a point where they were no longer getting information. 
    Yeah, but he wasn't going to break out of maximum security prison. He broke out of an office in a courthouse, and then out of a jail cell with a hole in the ceiling and killed more people, before he even had a trial. So that doesn't really mean anything as far as the reasoning behind the DP goes. Nobody in maximum security prison, convicted for crimes like that, is going to be able to escape. I totally agree that making sure violent criminals aren't a danger to society is a HUGE deal... that is why some of the sentences we see for violent people piss me off so much.
    I have concerns for the security officers as well. Plus, I don’t think you should be using up valuable resources when you are a killer.  So it’s not just 1 thing.


    hippiemom = goodness
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,687
    I don't have a problem with it at all.  I do have an issue with how it (the DP) is carried out.  There is no reason why lethal injection has to be so inconsistent.  An overdose of morphine will do the job nicely.  First they sleep then they die.  
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,597
    edited January 30
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So I watched the Bundy Files on Netflix.

    I forgot a lot about that story- in particular, his two escapes from jail (the second allowing him to make his way to Florida and slayed three more women). I don't know which is worse- the Dahmer cops that let Dahmer take his young victim back to his house after he had escaped it- naked and bloody... or the jailhouse idiots that let him escape TWICE?

    An appalling story for so many reasons- one being how much he thought of himself and how little he regarded the beautiful women he murdered (he truly saw them as insignificant). He was a sociopath of the highest order.

    He sure thought he was cute and clever at his trial. I loved his expression when the verdicts were read. 

    As we all know, he was executed. There was a big festival outside the prison when the execution took place- people rejoicing in the fact that Ted was frying. I didn't care for the party Floridians held as Ted paid for his crimes, but I feel the DP was the only penalty fitting for the prick given his crimes were so egregious. If we can spray mosquitoes with Off without batting an eye... then we can fry a hunk of shit like Ted.

    (By the way... I loved Jane's Addiction's Ted, Just Admit It.)
    Yeah, I mentioned in the Netflix thread that I was reminded by this show that that incident definitely triggered by opposition to the death penalty, because I was so stricken and repulsed by that party outside. It was a great metaphor for why the DP is all about vengeance and a blood lust and a disregard for the taking of a life. It fully demonstrates the moral absurdity of capital punishment IMO.
    It also demonstrated the value of the DP to silence such a horrific human being who simply put- wasn't worthy of life. His victims (and survivors) didn't need him flaunting his grotesque existence.

    But I agree with you regarding the 'party' atmosphere- completely unnecessary (although understood- there'll be big parties when Trump is dumped too).
    I have to disagree on that point too... Nobody had to pay him any attention in prison. He could have easily been silenced by not letting him have reporters come and talk to him. Also, days before he was murdered, he decided to try and delay it by starting to reveal where all the unrecovered bodies were. Some of those vicitms were Jane Does. I bet there are some families out there who still don't actually know what happened to their daughters. Bundy might have lead authorities to those victims if he hadn't been killed.
    We can disagree.

    Cheers!
    I never understood how they could justify putting any serial killer to death, when in so many cases they say they suspect they killed far more people than he was convicted of, and far more people than they have been able to identify. I think the #1 priority should be to get any and all info out of that killer so that they can try and solve a ton of cold cases related to the convict. Murdering them while they believe he committed more murders than they know about makes absolutely no sense to me. I never see supporters of the DP worry about that, but I never understood why it wasn't higher on their priority list than vengeance.
    Ted Bundy broke out of jail and killed more people. It’s not always about vegence. 

    It is an interesting point you raise but I’m guessing they got to a point where they were no longer getting information. 
    Yeah, but he wasn't going to break out of maximum security prison. He broke out of an office in a courthouse, and then out of a jail cell with a hole in the ceiling and killed more people, before he even had a trial. So that doesn't really mean anything as far as the reasoning behind the DP goes. Nobody in maximum security prison, convicted for crimes like that, is going to be able to escape. I totally agree that making sure violent criminals aren't a danger to society is a HUGE deal... that is why some of the sentences we see for violent people piss me off so much.
    I have concerns for the security officers as well. Plus, I don’t think you should be using up valuable resources when you are a killer.  So it’s not just 1 thing.


    But they use up far more resources going through the death penalty process. Keeping them alive actually saves court resources and money.
    As for the corrections officers... well shit, that actually just leads me to the entire American justice system in general. I think those dealing with the likes of Bundy and Gacy and Dahmer are FAR safer with them than they are dealing with general population in prisons that are made up violent gang members, fueled by race divisions, and rounded off by a bunch of addicts (who have help getting their drugs through corrupt corrections officers, or just ones who want to save their own asses).
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,154
  • I don't have a problem with it at all.  I do have an issue with how it (the DP) is carried out.  There is no reason why lethal injection has to be so inconsistent.  An overdose of morphine will do the job nicely.  First they sleep then they die.  
    I agree that a clean, clinical execution should be the standard, but in most cases that go badly... the murderer's suffering isn't remotely close to what their victims endured. I don't lose any sleep.

    Don't rape, torture and murder women and children. And we won't have to wonder what to do with you. It's that simple.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,687
    I don't have a problem with it at all.  I do have an issue with how it (the DP) is carried out.  There is no reason why lethal injection has to be so inconsistent.  An overdose of morphine will do the job nicely.  First they sleep then they die.  
    I agree that a clean, clinical execution should be the standard, but in most cases that go badly... the murderer's suffering isn't remotely close to what their victims endured. I don't lose any sleep.

    Don't rape, torture and murder women and children. And we won't have to wonder what to do with you. It's that simple.
    I don't lose sleep either but it gives those opposed to the DP ammo.  

    It just doesn't make sense to me that it is so inconsistent in how it is carried out.  
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 15,953
    edited January 31
    nvm
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Nathaniel Rowland can go. South Carolina employs the DP. There's no reason to feed and clothe this maggot.

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/slain-college-student-who-got-in-wrong-car-died-from-multiple-sharp-force-injuries/ar-BBVvrPH?ocid=spartanntp
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,808
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,154
    State of Missouri v. Russell E. Bucklew

    973 S.W. 2d 83 (Mo.banc 1998)

    Case Facts: 

    Russell Bucklew apparently did not want to live apart from Stephanie Ray. The two had lived together in Cape Girardeau County until Ray decided to break up with Bucklew on Valentine’s Day, 1996. Bucklew left their mobile home and went to live with his parents.

    On March 6, Bucklew returned to the trailer he had shared with Ray, found Michael Sanders, the victim in this case, there, concluded that Sanders and Ray were romantically involved, put a knife to Sanders’s throat and threatened to kill Sanders if Sanders ever came back to Ray’s trailer.

    Later that same evening, Bucklew returned to the trailer, found Ray alone, threatened her with a knife, cut her jaw, and punched her in the face before leaving. Ray reported all of this to the police.

    Bucklew called Ray at work the following day, March 7. He threatened her again and promised to kill her, Sanders, and her children if he saw her with Sanders again. Ray moved in with Sanders, fearing to return to her own home.

    Sometime during the night of March 20-21, Bucklew stole his nephew’s car, two of his brother’s pistols, two sets of his brother’s handcuffs, and a roll of duct tape. He left a note asking his family not to report his theft to the police.

    By the afternoon of March 21, Bucklew began surreptitiously following Ray as she left work and ran errands, ultimately discovering where she lived by following her to Sanders trailer.

    Bucklew waited for some period of time before he knocked on Sander’s trailer door. One of Sander’s children opened the door. Sanders saw Bucklew through the window, escorted the children to a back bedroom and grabbed a shotgun. Bucklew entered the trailer with a pistol in each hand.

    Sanders came into the hallway carrying a shotgun. Bucklew yelled "get down" and without further warning began shooting at Sanders. Sanders fell, struck by two bullets, one of which entered his chest and tore through his lung. Sanders dropped the shotgun. It went off and blew a hole in the trailer wall.

    Bucklew aimed the gun at Sanders’s head but when he saw Sander’s six-year-old son. Bucklew fired at the boy instead. The shot missed.

    Ray stepped between Bucklew and Sanders, who was holding his chest as he slumped against the wall. Bucklew invited Ray to drop to her knees. When she delayed, he struck her face with the pistol. He produced handcuffs, handcuffed her hands behind her back and dragged her to the car. The two drove away.

    During the journey that followed, Bucklew demanded sex. When all of the acts he demanded were not performed, Bucklew raped Ray in the back seat of the car. Resuming the journey, Bucklew drove north on Interstate 55.

    By this time law enforcement authorities had broadcast a description of the Bucklew car. Trooper James Hedrich saw the car, called for assistance, and began following Bucklew. They ultimately apprehended Bucklew after a gunfight in which both a trooper and Bucklew were wounded by gunshot.

    Michael Sanders bled to death from his wounds.


    His victim bled to death...I am not concerned if this trash chokes on his own blood.  He should have made better life choices than killing his former GFs livin and raping her before being apprehended.  The world is way overpopulated.  No need to keep scum like this alive...
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