The Death Penalty

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

chadwick said:

vampire guy going to sleep today down in texas. in 1998 he killed a 12 yr old boy & drank his blood. he told investigators during confession he tried removing the kid's head but it wouldn't come off. not a nice person here. he's been on death row 18 yrs. i don't know about that... he shoulda been put out of everyone's misery long ago

http://nypost.com/2016/04/05/vampire-killer-to-be-executed-for-grisly-murder-of-12-year-old-boy/

He started hearing voices that told him to do it... He needed a mental health facility, not death row. I think it's disgusting to condemn the mentally ill to death (of course the crime and what happened to the victim is disgusting too, but that is actually besides the point in the context of my views). I think the Texas courts are fucked up in as far as this goes. They simply chose to ignore the fact that he's mentally ill, or to dismiss it as irrelevant, which is a terrible precedent. Either way, that makes it so that the act of killing this person is purely out of spite.
Of course, all of that relies on the idea that he's actually mentally ill and not just lying about that part for his defense..... However, IMO, that still makes the death penalty a spiteful act. It is ALWAYS all about revenge, which is just such an unenlightened way for a government in a country with a relatively advanced criminal justice system to behave.

Mentally ill, huh?

How very convenient. Is there any history of it with the sick mutant? The story doesn't say and I don't really care to dive too deeply into this matter... he can fry.

Any... yes... any response we take in reaction to a crime (community hours, imprsionment, death, whatever) could be considered 'revenge' if that's what you wish to call it. The parents of the mutilated child are likely calling it justice.

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

chadwick said:

vampire guy going to sleep today down in texas. in 1998 he killed a 12 yr old boy & drank his blood. he told investigators during confession he tried removing the kid's head but it wouldn't come off. not a nice person here. he's been on death row 18 yrs. i don't know about that... he shoulda been put out of everyone's misery long ago

http://nypost.com/2016/04/05/vampire-killer-to-be-executed-for-grisly-murder-of-12-year-old-boy/

He started hearing voices that told him to do it... He needed a mental health facility, not death row. I think it's disgusting to condemn the mentally ill to death (of course the crime and what happened to the victim is disgusting too, but that is actually besides the point in the context of my views). I think the Texas courts are fucked up in as far as this goes. They simply chose to ignore the fact that he's mentally ill, or to dismiss it as irrelevant, which is a terrible precedent. Either way, that makes it so that the act of killing this person is purely out of spite.
Of course, all of that relies on the idea that he's actually mentally ill and not just lying about that part for his defense..... However, IMO, that still makes the death penalty a spiteful act. It is ALWAYS all about revenge, which is just such an unenlightened way for a government in a country with a relatively advanced criminal justice system to behave.

Mentally ill, huh?

How very convenient. Is there any history of it with the sick mutant? The story doesn't say and I don't really care to dive too deeply into this matter... he can fry.

Any... yes... any response we take in reaction to a crime (community hours, imprsionment, death, whatever) could be considered 'revenge' if that's what you wish to call it. The parents of the mutilated child are likely calling it justice.

I would actually consider putting someone in prison for life without parole is simply an act that guarantees the public's safety from the convict. There is no reason that revenge has to have anything to do with it. Since the death penalty isn't any more effective than life in prison without parole as far as public safety goes, I feel that that means the death penalty is just revenge while imprisonment is not.

Maybe the parents are glad about it, maybe not. But I'm sure you've learned here or elsewhere that it is very far from a given that the parents of murder victims support the death penalty, even when it comes to their own child's murderer. Many of them do not find any comfort in that. On the contrary - many say it actually made things worse for them. I know some want it, but don't just make that assumption and slip it in as part of your argument in support of capital punishment, because it doesn't hold up.

callen

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Having DP ensures innocent humans will be put to death. Yes yes there are open and shut cases but there will be mistakes. Fk, Avery debacle illustrates clearly.

Realize it feels good to get the bad guy but not healthy for society.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

chadwick said:

vampire guy going to sleep today down in texas. in 1998 he killed a 12 yr old boy & drank his blood. he told investigators during confession he tried removing the kid's head but it wouldn't come off. not a nice person here. he's been on death row 18 yrs. i don't know about that... he shoulda been put out of everyone's misery long ago

http://nypost.com/2016/04/05/vampire-killer-to-be-executed-for-grisly-murder-of-12-year-old-boy/

He started hearing voices that told him to do it... He needed a mental health facility, not death row. I think it's disgusting to condemn the mentally ill to death (of course the crime and what happened to the victim is disgusting too, but that is actually besides the point in the context of my views). I think the Texas courts are fucked up in as far as this goes. They simply chose to ignore the fact that he's mentally ill, or to dismiss it as irrelevant, which is a terrible precedent. Either way, that makes it so that the act of killing this person is purely out of spite.
Of course, all of that relies on the idea that he's actually mentally ill and not just lying about that part for his defense..... However, IMO, that still makes the death penalty a spiteful act. It is ALWAYS all about revenge, which is just such an unenlightened way for a government in a country with a relatively advanced criminal justice system to behave.

Mentally ill, huh?

How very convenient. Is there any history of it with the sick mutant? The story doesn't say and I don't really care to dive too deeply into this matter... he can fry.

Any... yes... any response we take in reaction to a crime (community hours, imprsionment, death, whatever) could be considered 'revenge' if that's what you wish to call it. The parents of the mutilated child are likely calling it justice.

I would actually consider putting someone in prison for life without parole is simply an act that guarantees the public's safety from the convict. There is no reason that revenge has to have anything to do with it. Since the death penalty isn't any more effective than life in prison without parole as far as public safety goes, I feel that that means the death penalty is just revenge while imprisonment is not.

Maybe the parents are glad about it, maybe not. But I'm sure you've learned here or elsewhere that it is very far from a given that the parents of murder victims support the death penalty, even when it comes to their own child's murderer. Many of them do not find any comfort in that. On the contrary - many say it actually made things worse for them. I know some want it, but don't just make that assumption and slip it in as part of your argument in support of capital punishment, because it doesn't hold up.

I made this exact same post numerous times over the many months of this thread. you may as well just save your breath, PJ Soul.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

^^^

Which point? Because both are not correct.

The overwhelming majority of cases I have read about where parents' children have been murdered by some sadistic bastard... they are happy to see the killer put to death. There are some that aren't comforted at all by such an act, but they are not 'many' compared to the alternative.

The other point you can't have one way. You can't say 'capital punishment' is revenge... and then say 'imprisonment isn't revenge'. Both are counter measures to a crime. Further... saying 'imprisoning someone safeguards society' might be true, however capital punishment safeguards society as well... and safeguards those in prison (inmates and guards). Sooo... it's actually a more effective safeguard when you wish to argue on those grounds.

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

^^^

Which point? Because both are not correct.

The overwhelming majority of cases I have read about where parents' children have been murdered by some sadistic bastard... they are happy to see the killer put to death. There are some that aren't comforted at all by such an act, but they are not 'many' compared to the alternative.

The other point you can't have one way. You can't say 'capital punishment' is revenge... and then say 'imprisonment isn't revenge'. Both are counter measures to a crime. Further... saying 'imprisoning someone safeguards society' might be true, however capital punishment safeguards society as well... and safeguards those in prison (inmates and guards). Sooo... it's actually a more effective safeguard when you wish to argue on those grounds.

None of what you say here makes too much sense, so I'm only going to bother saying that I totally disagree with everything said, especially the safe guard part, since innocent people are put on death row.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

^^^

Which point? Because both are not correct.

The overwhelming majority of cases I have read about where parents' children have been murdered by some sadistic bastard... they are happy to see the killer put to death. There are some that aren't comforted at all by such an act, but they are not 'many' compared to the alternative.

The other point you can't have one way. You can't say 'capital punishment' is revenge... and then say 'imprisonment isn't revenge'. Both are counter measures to a crime. Further... saying 'imprisoning someone safeguards society' might be true, however capital punishment safeguards society as well... and safeguards those in prison (inmates and guards). Sooo... it's actually a more effective safeguard when you wish to argue on those grounds.

None of what you say here makes too much sense, so I'm only going to bother saying that I totally disagree with everything said, especially the safe guard part, since innocent people are put on death row.

It makes a lot of sense. Don't pretend it's junk given its hard to refute.

The innocent people on Death Row fact is a significant one though- really the only one that makes me pause at all.

pdalowsky

its pretty well documented in this thread that I am not comfortable whatsoever with the death penalty, in fact it continues to trouble me greatly.

However that said, I can not muster up one iota of sympathy for the man executed earlier today. Regardless of my feelings generally on the subject, sometimes the crime is so repulsive I can accept the stance taken. Doesn't mean I agree with it.

But in a system that has the Death Penalty and uses it as it does, this is one of those cases it is really difficult to see an sensible objection to as much as it pains me to say that.

chadwick

the very deep, dark well of a hole one get pulled down into when going through grief is torture & there is no stopping this terrible tornado from taking one under. i imagine it can only get worse when it is one's murdered child.

we don't have the answers so we do what we do for now. until we are a better more perfect people some of us will be monstrous. sad stuff

callen

pdalowsky said:

its pretty well documented in this thread that I am not comfortable whatsoever with the death penalty, in fact it continues to trouble me greatly.

However that said, I can not muster up one iota of sympathy for the man executed earlier today. Regardless of my feelings generally on the subject, sometimes the crime is so repulsive I can accept the stance taken. Doesn't mean I agree with it.

But in a system that has the Death Penalty and uses it as it does, this is one of those cases it is really difficult to see an sensible objection to as much as it pains me to say that.

So thinking best thought per your concerns is two wrongs don't make a right.
Surely this guy is a POS but using killing to punish a killer isn't good for society.

Killing this Idjut doesn't fix anything just tells society that killing is a solution to a problem and it's not.
Add the guarantee that innocents will die if we continue death penalty and add the high costs.

Just not practical or good for anything other than relishing in revenge. Which isn't healthy.

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

^^^

Which point? Because both are not correct.

The overwhelming majority of cases I have read about where parents' children have been murdered by some sadistic bastard... they are happy to see the killer put to death. There are some that aren't comforted at all by such an act, but they are not 'many' compared to the alternative.

The other point you can't have one way. You can't say 'capital punishment' is revenge... and then say 'imprisonment isn't revenge'. Both are counter measures to a crime. Further... saying 'imprisoning someone safeguards society' might be true, however capital punishment safeguards society as well... and safeguards those in prison (inmates and guards). Sooo... it's actually a more effective safeguard when you wish to argue on those grounds.

again and again and again....imprisonment is not revenge. it is the absolute least that needs to be done to protect society. if we could put them all on an island without being behind bars and let them roam about that island without possibility of escape, I'd be for that too.

putting a man to death just isn't necessary to protect society.

joseph33

Sanders is against it,Clinton is for it. Its like hitting a child to show them that hitting is wrong.

pdalowsky

Callen you and I are on the same page

callen

pdalowsky said:

Callen you and I are on the same page

Particularly in loving some PJ.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

^^^

Which point? Because both are not correct.

The overwhelming majority of cases I have read about where parents' children have been murdered by some sadistic bastard... they are happy to see the killer put to death. There are some that aren't comforted at all by such an act, but they are not 'many' compared to the alternative.

The other point you can't have one way. You can't say 'capital punishment' is revenge... and then say 'imprisonment isn't revenge'. Both are counter measures to a crime. Further... saying 'imprisoning someone safeguards society' might be true, however capital punishment safeguards society as well... and safeguards those in prison (inmates and guards). Sooo... it's actually a more effective safeguard when you wish to argue on those grounds.

again and again and again....imprisonment is not revenge. it is the absolute least that needs to be done to protect society. if we could put them all on an island without being behind bars and let them roam about that island without possibility of escape, I'd be for that too.

putting a man to death just isn't necessary to protect society.

again and again and again... the death penalty is not revenge. it is the appropriate form of justice, in this case, to deal with a sick bastard that mutilated a child. And then tried to use the lame defence that he wa shearing voices and he was mentally ill (despite the fact that he had an accomplice).

he hacked his limb off. scalped him. drank his blood while the 12 year old boy was still alive and pleading for his life. he then tried to bury him in a shallow grave to cove rup his obscenity. he can die. internet, books, a fan club, hot meals, clean bedding, and someone doing his laundry for him is too good for such a heinous act. if you think it is... that's your problem- I'm happy the prick is gone.

if we could all just live nicely with each other and not kill people's kids, I'd be for that.

callen

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

^^^

Which point? Because both are not correct.

The overwhelming majority of cases I have read about where parents' children have been murdered by some sadistic bastard... they are happy to see the killer put to death. There are some that aren't comforted at all by such an act, but they are not 'many' compared to the alternative.

The other point you can't have one way. You can't say 'capital punishment' is revenge... and then say 'imprisonment isn't revenge'. Both are counter measures to a crime. Further... saying 'imprisoning someone safeguards society' might be true, however capital punishment safeguards society as well... and safeguards those in prison (inmates and guards). Sooo... it's actually a more effective safeguard when you wish to argue on those grounds.

again and again and again....imprisonment is not revenge. it is the absolute least that needs to be done to protect society. if we could put them all on an island without being behind bars and let them roam about that island without possibility of escape, I'd be for that too.

putting a man to death just isn't necessary to protect society.

again and again and again... the death penalty is not revenge. it is the appropriate form of justice, in this case, to deal with a sick bastard that mutilated a child. And then tried to use the lame defence that he wa shearing voices and he was mentally ill (despite the fact that he had an accomplice).

he hacked his limb off. scalped him. drank his blood while the 12 year old boy was still alive and pleading for his life. he then tried to bury him in a shallow grave to cove rup his obscenity. he can die. internet, books, a fan club, hot meals, clean bedding, and someone doing his laundry for him is too good for such a heinous act. if you think it is... that's your problem- I'm happy the prick is gone.

if we could all just live nicely with each other and not kill people's kids, I'd be for that.

TB Your post oozes with the stickiness of revenge.

PJ_Soul

"I'm happy the prick is gone." Yeeaaahhh. It's not revenge at all. Gleeful revenge, no less.

I don't know why people confuse being against the death penalty with caring about murderers (who aren't mentally ill or mentally disabled of course. Many on death row are one or both of those things). That isn't the case at all. It's about how the government conducts itself and its motives. I actually don't give a shit if 30 loves the murder of murderers. I care when a government kills people out of spite though. And I care much much more when doing so trumps keeping innocent people from being murdered by said government. Forget about the death of one innocent person. Simply one innocent person spending any time on death row is reason enough for the death penalty to be banned.

callen

So many reasons.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

"I'm happy the prick is gone." Yeeaaahhh. It's not revenge at all. Gleeful revenge, no less.

I don't know why people confuse being against the death penalty with caring about murderers (who aren't mentally ill or mentally disabled of course. Many on death row are one or both of those things). That isn't the case at all. It's about how the government conducts itself and its motives. I actually don't give a shit if 30 loves the murder of murderers. I care when a government kills people out of spite though. And I care much much more when doing so trumps keeping innocent people from being murdered by said government. Forget about the death of one innocent person. Simply one innocent person spending any time on death row is reason enough for the death penalty to be banned.

And I don't care if you wish to council and support the poor poor murderer of a child or if you think that 'prick' is too strong a term.

I'm happy that justice has been served. I wish that we didn't need to figure out what to do with people such as this, however... periodically... we are presented with people that hardly act like people.

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

"I'm happy the prick is gone." Yeeaaahhh. It's not revenge at all. Gleeful revenge, no less.

I don't know why people confuse being against the death penalty with caring about murderers (who aren't mentally ill or mentally disabled of course. Many on death row are one or both of those things). That isn't the case at all. It's about how the government conducts itself and its motives. I actually don't give a shit if 30 loves the murder of murderers. I care when a government kills people out of spite though. And I care much much more when doing so trumps keeping innocent people from being murdered by said government. Forget about the death of one innocent person. Simply one innocent person spending any time on death row is reason enough for the death penalty to be banned.

And I don't care if you wish to council and support the poor poor murderer of a child or if you think that 'prick' is too strong a term.

So you are just choosing to completely ignore my statement in the very post you just copied that says I don't in any way feel like this? That's irritating as hell, but okay.
The strength of the word prick has nothing to do with anything.