The Death Penalty

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Hugh...

As to the 'executing innocents' thing: once again... that speaks to flaws within the investigative and trial processes.

You always try to hold the DP accountable for the death of an innocent person. The DP didn't get them convicted.

As I've said... the potential for the death of an innocent person does make me pause; however, there are clear cut cases where guilt is not in question and death is well deserved on the part of the offender.

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Hugh...

As to the 'executing innocents' thing: once again... that speaks to flaws within the investigative and trial processes.

You always try to hold the DP accountable for the death of an innocent person. The DP didn't get them convicted.

As I've said... the potential for the death of an innocent person does make me pause; however, there are clear cut cases where guilt is not in question and death is well deserved on the part of the offender.

of course I do. no death penalty=no executed innocents.

you simply cannot dispute that.

and as I've stated countless times, that's not my only issue with it. we should be executing nobody. period.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Hugh...

As to the 'executing innocents' thing: once again... that speaks to flaws within the investigative and trial processes.

You always try to hold the DP accountable for the death of an innocent person. The DP didn't get them convicted.

As I've said... the potential for the death of an innocent person does make me pause; however, there are clear cut cases where guilt is not in question and death is well deserved on the part of the offender.

of course I do. no death penalty=no executed innocents.

you simply cannot dispute that.

and as I've stated countless times, that's not my only issue with it. we should be executing nobody. period.

And... we come to an impasse again. I, like the majority of my countrymen, simply don't feel this way.

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Hugh...

As to the 'executing innocents' thing: once again... that speaks to flaws within the investigative and trial processes.

You always try to hold the DP accountable for the death of an innocent person. The DP didn't get them convicted.

As I've said... the potential for the death of an innocent person does make me pause; however, there are clear cut cases where guilt is not in question and death is well deserved on the part of the offender.

of course I do. no death penalty=no executed innocents.

you simply cannot dispute that.

and as I've stated countless times, that's not my only issue with it. we should be executing nobody. period.

And... we come to an impasse again. I, like the majority of my countrymen, simply don't feel this way.

Maybe I missed it but.... the majority of Canadians want the death penalty brought back???

callen

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Hugh...

As to the 'executing innocents' thing: once again... that speaks to flaws within the investigative and trial processes.

You always try to hold the DP accountable for the death of an innocent person. The DP didn't get them convicted.

As I've said... the potential for the death of an innocent person does make me pause; however, there are clear cut cases where guilt is not in question and death is well deserved on the part of the offender.

of course I do. no death penalty=no executed innocents.

you simply cannot dispute that.

and as I've stated countless times, that's not my only issue with it. we should be executing nobody. period.

And... we come to an impasse again. I, like the majority of my countrymen, simply don't feel this way.

So to get your vengeance your okay with few innocents thrown on. Yes we got it. And Dubya elected twice so majorities mean nothing.

PJ_Soul

I looked a bit into 30's claim about the majority of Canadians being in favour of the death penalty. Not quite. If the choice is to stick to the current laws, apparently so (which I'm surprised about... I think if you gave it 20 years so that a lot of older folks are dead, you'll get a different result). However, from the Globe and Mail editorial, Jan 27, 2015: "Polls have shown that a majority of Canadians support the idea of automatic life without parole, preferring it to the reinstatement of the death penalty, if given the option between the two....... Since the end of the death penalty, the murder rate in Canada has been cut in half."

Here is the editorial, which is actually more about the lack of a life without parole as a sentence in Canada (and why that shouldn't bother people as much as it does either): http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/editorials/we-dont-need-life-without-parole/article22660484/

And since that is an editorial, I also found the fact that, while the majority of Canadians support the death penalty in concept (for now), only 40% would actually want it reinstated in Canada. This 2011 article/report also mentioned what I already supposed, which is that it most supported by old people (men in particular): "Opinion about the death penalty is very much a generational issue. Only one in four Millennials (18-29) said they supported the death penalty and want it reinstated, whereas half of Canadians (50%) aged 45-59, and 47% of those 60 and up held this view."
http://abacusinsider.com/politics-public-affairs/a-majority-of-canadians-support-the-death-penalty-but-only-40-want-it-reinstated/

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Hugh...

As to the 'executing innocents' thing: once again... that speaks to flaws within the investigative and trial processes.

You always try to hold the DP accountable for the death of an innocent person. The DP didn't get them convicted.

As I've said... the potential for the death of an innocent person does make me pause; however, there are clear cut cases where guilt is not in question and death is well deserved on the part of the offender.

of course I do. no death penalty=no executed innocents.

you simply cannot dispute that.

and as I've stated countless times, that's not my only issue with it. we should be executing nobody. period.

And... we come to an impasse again. I, like the majority of my countrymen, simply don't feel this way.

as I stated above, and PJSoul also just did, that is incorrect.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Hugh...

As to the 'executing innocents' thing: once again... that speaks to flaws within the investigative and trial processes.

You always try to hold the DP accountable for the death of an innocent person. The DP didn't get them convicted.

As I've said... the potential for the death of an innocent person does make me pause; however, there are clear cut cases where guilt is not in question and death is well deserved on the part of the offender.

of course I do. no death penalty=no executed innocents.

you simply cannot dispute that.

and as I've stated countless times, that's not my only issue with it. we should be executing nobody. period.

And... we come to an impasse again. I, like the majority of my countrymen, simply don't feel this way.

as I stated above, and PJSoul also just did, that is incorrect.

Huh?

PJSouls' submission offered the following:

A new survey from national polling firm Abacus Data found that two thirds of Canadians (66%) said they support the death penalty in certain circumstances.

Only three in ten Canadians say they are completely opposed to the death penalty and strongly oppose the federal government reinstating it.

Yours did no better- it spoke to a majority wanting it.

Sorry. Good try though. And for the earlier effort... good try PJSoul too!

PJ_Soul

What try? I successfully made the exact point I meant to make.

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Hugh...

As to the 'executing innocents' thing: once again... that speaks to flaws within the investigative and trial processes.

You always try to hold the DP accountable for the death of an innocent person. The DP didn't get them convicted.

As I've said... the potential for the death of an innocent person does make me pause; however, there are clear cut cases where guilt is not in question and death is well deserved on the part of the offender.

of course I do. no death penalty=no executed innocents.

you simply cannot dispute that.

and as I've stated countless times, that's not my only issue with it. we should be executing nobody. period.

And... we come to an impasse again. I, like the majority of my countrymen, simply don't feel this way.

as I stated above, and PJSoul also just did, that is incorrect.

Huh?

PJSouls' submission offered the following:

A new survey from national polling firm Abacus Data found that two thirds of Canadians (66%) said they support the death penalty in certain circumstances.

Only three in ten Canadians say they are completely opposed to the death penalty and strongly oppose the federal government reinstating it.

Yours did no better- it spoke to a majority wanting it.

Sorry. Good try though. And for the earlier effort... good try PJSoul too!

Hahaha do you read the things you post? I can't tell you how you sound without insulting you.
There is no reason to speak to people like that, particularly in a place as enlightened as this, with fine folks like PJsoul and HFD.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

What try? I successfully made the exact point I meant to make.

Really?

You said this: I looked a bit into 30's claim about the majority of Canadians being in favour of the death penalty. Not quite.

Then you offered a piece to support your claim that said 2/3 of Canadians wanted the DP.

That's what I was saying. Remember? Me and the majority? And what we wanted? The DP?

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

What try? I successfully made the exact point I meant to make.

Really?

You said this: I looked a bit into 30's claim about the majority of Canadians being in favour of the death penalty. Not quite.

Then you offered a piece to support your claim that said 2/3 of Canadians wanted the DP.

That's what I was saying. Remember? Me and the majority? And what we wanted? The DP?

I never made any claim at all (and certainly not that 2/3 of Canadians want the DP). I simply wondered if what you said about the majority of Canadians supporting the DP was true (I didn't know one way or the other), and sought to read a little more about it, and posted the information that I found. It was a very neutral post. I just wanted to show what I found (which didn't quite support YOUR claim, but in part it did).

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Hugh...

As to the 'executing innocents' thing: once again... that speaks to flaws within the investigative and trial processes.

You always try to hold the DP accountable for the death of an innocent person. The DP didn't get them convicted.

As I've said... the potential for the death of an innocent person does make me pause; however, there are clear cut cases where guilt is not in question and death is well deserved on the part of the offender.

of course I do. no death penalty=no executed innocents.

you simply cannot dispute that.

and as I've stated countless times, that's not my only issue with it. we should be executing nobody. period.

And... we come to an impasse again. I, like the majority of my countrymen, simply don't feel this way.

as I stated above, and PJSoul also just did, that is incorrect.

Huh?

PJSouls' submission offered the following:

A new survey from national polling firm Abacus Data found that two thirds of Canadians (66%) said they support the death penalty in certain circumstances.

Only three in ten Canadians say they are completely opposed to the death penalty and strongly oppose the federal government reinstating it.

Yours did no better- it spoke to a majority wanting it.

Sorry. Good try though. And for the earlier effort... good try PJSoul too!

Try reading what i submitted again. When asked, yes, the majority favored the DP, but that was when the question was framed in a certain way.

When asked if they had a choice between life in prison or the DP, the majority chose the former.

We both ahree our justice system is severely lacking in punishment, which is what I gather gives people the DP leanings, but when given the choice of LIP, they chose NOT to kill.

And let's call a spade a spade. Public opinion does equate necessarily to the common sense and/or ethical solution. We need not look very far into the past to prove that point.

PJfanwillneverleave1

callen said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

^^^^
Some people do kill for the guarantee of room and board.

Say what now?

Jail for the rest of their life instead of the DP.

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

^^^^
Some people do kill for the guarantee of room and board.

Say what now?

Jail for the rest of their life instead of the DP.

Are you saying they kill so they can go to prison?

Some yes.
Their shitty existence of a life is much better on the inside.
Their deluded minds (the only state in which one would kill) recognizes that and they commit the act.
No remorse, pure psychotic.

Examples?

I want to take my time with proper examples.
About 2yrs ago I swear I read an article/book about this.
Give me some time.
I found it interesting and revolting at the same time.
I don't want to give a sloppy google example.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Edit:

Cheers.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Hugh...

As to the 'executing innocents' thing: once again... that speaks to flaws within the investigative and trial processes.

You always try to hold the DP accountable for the death of an innocent person. The DP didn't get them convicted.

As I've said... the potential for the death of an innocent person does make me pause; however, there are clear cut cases where guilt is not in question and death is well deserved on the part of the offender.

of course I do. no death penalty=no executed innocents.

you simply cannot dispute that.

There's another fact that you might care to consider: by imprisoning cold-blooded killers instead of executing them, we place innocent people at risk and many innocents have died as a result.

This thread already has its submissions that have detailed killers killing again while in prison so I won't bother to contribute an example supporting what I have said.

Don't speak to procedural failings to blame here like you have done in the past either: refusing to acknowledge procedural failings in the investigative and trial processes bearing the weight of the responsibility for wrongful convictions (blaming the sentence instead)... yet willing to blame procedural failings when some serial murderer murders someone behind bars.

callen

Non lifers kill in prison as well. We execute all that get prison sentences?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

callen said:

Non lifers kill in prison as well. We execute all that get prison sentences?

A weak point.

If a prisoner becomes a murderer in prison, then we need to respond appropriately- their level of criminal behaviour has escalated just as someone on the street's might have. We don't execute people on the street because people on the street kill people.

When a known and prolific murderer murders in prison, we have afforded that opportunity. It's tantamount to negligence.

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Hugh...

As to the 'executing innocents' thing: once again... that speaks to flaws within the investigative and trial processes.

You always try to hold the DP accountable for the death of an innocent person. The DP didn't get them convicted.

As I've said... the potential for the death of an innocent person does make me pause; however, there are clear cut cases where guilt is not in question and death is well deserved on the part of the offender.

of course I do. no death penalty=no executed innocents.

you simply cannot dispute that.

There's another fact that you might care to consider: by imprisoning cold-blooded killers instead of executing them, we place innocent people at risk and many innocents have died as a result.

This thread already has its submissions that have detailed killers killing again while in prison so I won't bother to contribute an example supporting what I have said.

Don't speak to procedural failings to blame here like you have done in the past either: refusing to acknowledge procedural failings in the investigative and trial processes bearing the weight of the responsibility for wrongful convictions (blaming the sentence instead)... yet willing to blame procedural failings when some serial murderer murders someone behind bars.

I DO blame the procedural failings when it comes to the death penalty. I have stated as much several times. I dont blame the death penalty for the death penalty. I simply state the death penalty should not exist BECAUSE of the failings of the system.

But again, my stance is not singular. Even if we could guarantee only the guilty get executed, I would still be against it.

Also, please show some stats as to your assertion that "many innocents have died as a result" of not executing murderers. And only examples where you yourself have allowed for the DP, the extreme examples you have mentiond in previous posts.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Hugh...

As to the 'executing innocents' thing: once again... that speaks to flaws within the investigative and trial processes.

You always try to hold the DP accountable for the death of an innocent person. The DP didn't get them convicted.

As I've said... the potential for the death of an innocent person does make me pause; however, there are clear cut cases where guilt is not in question and death is well deserved on the part of the offender.

of course I do. no death penalty=no executed innocents.

you simply cannot dispute that.

There's another fact that you might care to consider: by imprisoning cold-blooded killers instead of executing them, we place innocent people at risk and many innocents have died as a result.

This thread already has its submissions that have detailed killers killing again while in prison so I won't bother to contribute an example supporting what I have said.

Don't speak to procedural failings to blame here like you have done in the past either: refusing to acknowledge procedural failings in the investigative and trial processes bearing the weight of the responsibility for wrongful convictions (blaming the sentence instead)... yet willing to blame procedural failings when some serial murderer murders someone behind bars.

I DO blame the procedural failings when it comes to the death penalty. I have stated as much several times. I dont blame the death penalty for the death penalty. I simply state the death penalty should not exist BECAUSE of the failings of the system.

But again, my stance is not singular. Even if we could guarantee only the guilty get executed, I would still be against it.

Also, please show some stats as to your assertion that "many innocents have died as a result" of not executing murderers. And only examples where you yourself have allowed for the DP, the extreme examples you have mentiond in previous posts.

In 2014, the US Dept of Justice released a comprehensive statistical set that detailed mortality rates in US prisons and jails.

From 2000-2012, there were 274 homicides.
The homicide rate in 2011 was 5 per 100,000.
The homicide rate in 2012 was 7 per 100,000.

Who committed these murders is difficult to find. I've drawn the stats from a PDF file located on the government web site (you can find it if you want... I'm unclear how to attach a PDF).

Suffice to say... despite being under the watchful eye of prison officials... murderers are managing to murder people.