US warns palestinians:want statehood? we'll cut aid

Byrnzie

usamamasan1 wrote:

Maybe the people that inhabit the land by Israel stop killing indiscriminately? That might be a good first step in peace.

Gaza 2008-2009: 600 civilian men and women killed, over 400 children, and 100 police recruits, not to mention all the ambulance workers, U.N aid workers, and journalists killed.

But that's not indiscriminate killing in your scheme of things, right?

Israel's apologists always like to try and turn reality on it's head.

gimmesometruth27

quimby20 wrote:

Very good, I had several rounds with Byrnzie and gimmiesometruth27. All the are anti-American Semites. They have both the ability to back their bullshit arguments via Google. Job well done exposing two idiots.

care to contribute something intelligent, based on facts, to the thread?

i post news articles to back my positions. many of them from other countries because our media here does not report the news, it manufactures news and shapes opinion. he posted a single editorial that was probably found after a 5 minute search. it was a biased piece of shit. perhaps you should review some of the prior israel/palestine threads on here over the past several years. you might learn something.

and for the record, you can be a patriot while disagreeing with your government's position on the issues. dissent is the highest form of patriotism. and you can disagree wholeheartedly with israel's policies in the occupied territories and still not be an anti-semite....but keep the name calling coming...all it does is weaken your position..

blueandwhite

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

and for the record, you can be a patriot while disagreeing with your government's position on the issues. dissent is the highest form of patriotism. and you can disagree wholeheartedly with israel's policies in the occupied territories and still not be an anti-semite....but keep the name calling coming...all it does is weaken your position..

Well said.

Let's not forget that the United States was a country that was founded by dissenters. Your country is a nation whose founding fathers weren't afraid to question the status-quo. It's rather ironic then that so many Americans freak out when others express a dissenting opinion.

gimmesometruth27

this is a masterful play by abbas...

"However, it is the failure of 20 years of U.S.-brokered negotiations that has driven Abbas to take his quest for a state to the United Nations -- a ploy that could embarrass the United States by forcing it to protect its Israeli ally against the tide of world opinion."

it is a big middle finger to obama by calling his bluff. and i like it....

Palestinians to push U.N. bid despite Obama

http://news.yahoo.com/palestinians-push ... 47713.html

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - President Barack Obama told the United Nations on Wednesday there was no short cut to Middle East peace but Palestinians said they would press on with a request for U.N. recognition of their nascent state.

Amid frantic efforts to avert a diplomatic disaster, French President Nicolas Sarkozy urged the United Nations to grant the Palestinians the status of observer state, like the Vatican, while outlining a one-year roadmap to peace.

A year after telling the General Assembly he hoped to see a Palestinian state born by now, the U.S. president said creating such a state alongside Israel remained his goal.

"But the question isn't the goal we seek -- the question is how to reach it. And I am convinced that there is no short cut to the end of a conflict that has endured for decades," he told the assembly.

With U.S. sway in the Middle East at stake, Obama had hoped to dissuade the Palestinians from asking the Security Council for statehood despite Israeli wrath and a U.S. veto threat.

But Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas seems determined to pursue his plan to hand an application for statehood to U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on Friday.

Obama told Abbas in a meeting that U.N. action would not lead to a Palestinian state and that the United States would veto such a move in the Security Council, the White House said.

Asked if Abbas had given any sign he might change course, Ben Rhodes, Obama's deputy national security adviser, said: "He has been very clear what his intent is ... which is to go to the Council and to begin the process of securing membership there."

Abbas' spokesman Nabil Abu Rdainah said the two leaders had reiterated their positions, without any apparent result.

Obama, echoing Israel's position, told the United Nations that only negotiations can lead to a Palestinian state.

"Peace will not come through statements and resolutions at the U.N.," he said. "Ultimately, it is Israelis and Palestinians -- not us -- who must reach agreement on the issues that divide them: on borders and security; on refugees and Jerusalem."

However, it is the failure of 20 years of U.S.-brokered negotiations that has driven Abbas to take his quest for a state to the United Nations -- a ploy that could embarrass the United States by forcing it to protect its Israeli ally against the tide of world opinion.

Obama earlier met Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and assured him of unwavering U.S. support.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was due to hold separate talks with Abbas and Netanyahu in the evening.

BLEAK PROSPECTS

Although Obama said he had set out a new basis for negotiations in May, chances of reviving peace talks look bleak.

The two sides are far apart. The Palestinians are divided internally and Obama will not want to risk alienating Israel's powerful U.S. support base by pressing for Israeli concessions as he enters a tough battle for re-election next year.

In more evidence of Obama's domestic constraints, a U.S. Senate committee voted to prohibit aid to the Palestinians if they joined the United Nations.

France has grown frustrated at the lack of progress, saying negotiations should be widened to include a more hands-on role for Europe given the impasse in U.S.-led efforts.

"Let us cease our endless debates on the parameters and begin negotiations," Sarkozy said. "The moment has come to build peace for Palestinian and Israeli children."

Sarkozy said negotiations should begin within one month, an agreement on borders and security should be clinched within six months and a definitive agreement be reached within a year.

Rhodes said there was some "overlap" between Obama and Sarkozy on their Middle East peace ideas, but they differed on Palestinian membership of the United Nations.

The Palestinians see statehood as opening the way for negotiations between equals. Israel says the Palestinian move aims at delegitimizing the Jewish state.

Flag-waving Palestinians rallied in West Bank city squares to back the recourse to the United Nations.

The drama at the United Nations is playing out as Arab uprisings are transforming the Middle Eastern landscape.

Obama pledged support for Arab democratic change, called for more U.N. sanctions against Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad and urged Iran and North Korea to meet their nuclear obligations -- twin standoffs that have eluded his efforts at resolution.

Iran freed two Americans held for spying, in what President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called a compassionate gesture before he addresses the United Nations on Thursday.

DELAYING ACTION

The Security Council could delay action on Abbas' request, giving the mediating "Quartet" -- the United States, Russia, the European Union and the United Nations -- more time to craft a declaration that could coax both sides back to the table.

A French presidential source said the Quartet was unlikely to issue such a declaration within the next three days.

A senior Palestinian official, Nabil Shaath, said the Palestinians would give the Security Council "some time" to consider the statehood claim before they took it to the General Assembly, where Washington has no veto.

Hanan Ashrawi, a senior Palestinian official, said Obama's speech was a disappointment, accusing him of being selective when upholding principles of freedom and self-determination.

"When it comes to Palestinians suffering from an oppressive foreign military occupation, somehow ... these principles do not apply. They only apply when Arabs rebel against their own oppressive regime."

Whatever happens at the United Nations, Palestinians will remain under Israeli occupation and any nominal state would lack recognized borders or real independence and sovereignty.

It is a measure of their desperation that they are persisting with an initiative that could incur financial retribution from Israel and the United States.

In his speech to the General Assembly, Ban asked governments to show solidarity in meeting "extraordinary challenges" for the world body, ranging from climate change to peacekeeping.

"Without resources, we cannot deliver," he declared, pledging to streamline U.N. budgets to "do more with less."

mikepegg44

quimby20 wrote:

All the are anti-American Semites. Job well done exposing two idiots.

You can call Byrnzie and Gimme a lot of things, but idiots isn't one of them.

Also, you may want to clarify your previous post, seems like you are calling them anti-american Hebrews to me.

I don't really have a position on this issue as I don't know enough of the real story to formulate one. But if someone like David Horowitz supports the position of Israel I am inclined to disagree with him.

gimmesometruth27

Byrnzie wrote:

The whole World on one side. Israel and the U.S on the other.

And when the next 9/11 occurs Americans will scratch their heads and wonder why.

not all of us will scratch our heads and wonder why...

but a lot of us will....

and they will fall for the same "they hate our way of life" or "they hate us for our freedom" crap that was used to explain away the first 9/11...

Idris

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

The whole World on one side. Israel and the U.S on the other.

And when the next 9/11 occurs Americans will scratch their heads and wonder why.

not all of us will scratch our heads and wonder why...

but a lot of us will....

and they will fall for the same "they hate our way of life" or "they hate us for our freedom" crap that was used to explain away the first 9/11...

Canada is fully backing Israel and the US...disgusting.
----

quimby20

It sounds to me that Palestine will be a perfect home for a lot of you in the future. Good Luck with That!

gimmesometruth27

quimby20 wrote:

It sounds to me that Palestine will be a perfect home for a lot of you in the future. Good Luck with That!

so because we want a JUST PEACE between the israelis and palestinians we should live in palestine?? :?

Byrnzie

quimby20 wrote:

It sounds to me that Palestine will be a perfect home for a lot of you in the future. Good Luck with That!

Another valuable contribution from our new member on the M.T.

quimby20

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

quimby20 wrote:

It sounds to me that Palestine will be a perfect home for a lot of you in the future. Good Luck with That!

so because we want a JUST PEACE between the israelis and palestinians we should live in palestine?? :?

Wow, you brilliant. That's exactly what I said. Sound like paradise the way you speak of it.

Idris

quimby20 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

quimby20 wrote:

It sounds to me that Palestine will be a perfect home for a lot of you in the future. Good Luck with That!

so because we want a JUST PEACE between the israelis and palestinians we should live in palestine?? :?

Wow, you brilliant. That's exactly what I said. Sound like paradise the way you speak of it.

With it's great food and stunning sunsets..(and good hashish) it (palestine) would probably be a paradise, if it were not for the brutal occupation and destruction of the land of course.

blueandwhite

quimby20 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

quimby20 wrote:

It sounds to me that Palestine will be a perfect home for a lot of you in the future. Good Luck with That!

so because we want a JUST PEACE between the israelis and palestinians we should live in palestine?? :?

Wow, you brilliant. That's exactly what I said. Sound like paradise the way you speak of it.

Unfortunately, that part of the world is riddled with extreme intolerance and hatred. Quimby, it sounds like you'd fit in pretty well over there.

usamamasan1

Those who live in Israel have made a paradise....big oranges.
They had to work the land.
Work....probably scares many of you so I will say it again.... work
Work work
You down with GDP?
Yeah, you know me
Big oranges.

In other news...the op said that we cut off aid to Palestine...does that mean we are currently sponsoring terror?
I have to look into this and get back with you.


Www.google.com

Byrnzie

usamamasan1 wrote:

Those who live in Israel have made a paradise....big oranges.
They had to work the land.
Work....probably scares many of you so I will say it again.... work
Work work
You down with GDP?
Yeah, you know me
Big oranges.
What's the strength of the Jew hating neighbors economy? Sour grapes?
Sour grapes and oranges makes for a toxic cocktail huh?

Can anyone point me to an 'ignore' function so I don't have to waste my time reading anymore of this trolls bullshit?

usamamasan1

You really need help with that?
Figures. I am no troll.

Truth hurts

Get out of grandmas basement. First, hit ignore

Baby pants

gimmesometruth27

usamamasan1 wrote:

Those who live in Israel have made a paradise....big oranges.
They had to work the land.
Work....probably scares many of you so I will say it again.... work
Work work
You down with GDP?
Yeah, you know me
Big oranges.

In other news...the op said that we cut off aid to Palestine...does that mean we are currently sponsoring terror?
I have to look into this and get back with you.


http://Www.google.com

we give some money in aid to palestine. but it pales in comparison to what we give to israel....

we give israel $4 billion a year, and that increases every year... so yeah we are sponsoring terrorism....we are sponsoring and funding the brutal military occupation of palestinian land, we are funding the illegal settlers on that land, we are funding the israeli military, and we are funding the aparthied conditions that exist there today.....and we are sponsoring diplomatic terrorism with our veto power at the UN...

go ahead and look it up...i can't imagine you would read anything that would affect the way you feel, so maybe don't bother..

woot...

MookiesLaw

quimby20 wrote:

So who's rights should America be concerned with? The Jews or the Palestinians????

You should feel embarrassed by the US’s contradictory position to spread freedom and democracy in the Middle East only when it suits and at the expense of peace and the rights of the Palestinian people. Israel should be seen as an ally and nothing more and people need to get Israel's dick out their mouths.

Jason P

Byrnzie wrote:

The whole World on one side. Israel and the U.S on the other.

And when the next 9/11 occurs Americans will scratch their heads and wonder why.

If isn't America having good relations with a Jewish nation it will be something else. Oil, religion, Monday Night Football, cartoons, a high tide, Rosie O'Donnell, a tree falling in a forest with no one around ... who knows.

Let's say the U.S. backs Palestine in the U.N. vote and pulls every single troop out of the middle east by next Wednesday. Is there even a 1% chance that Al-Qaeda decides to call it a day? I think you know the answer to that question ...

Byrnzie

Jason P wrote:

If isn't America having good relations with a Jewish nation it will be something else. Oil, religion, Monday Night Football, cartoons, a high tide, Rosie O'Donnell, a tree falling in a forest with no one around ... who knows.

Let's say the U.S. backs Palestine in the U.N. vote and pulls every single troop out of the middle east by next Wednesday. Is there even a 1% chance that Al-Qaeda decides to call it a day? I think you know the answer to that question ...

If the U.S ceased meddling in the affairs of Middle Eastern countries, and ceased bankrolling Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign and land-grab then what reason would Al-Qaeda have to target America? When the French colonialists left Algeria the Algerians didn't continue attacking them. When the British ceded control of India the Indians didn't continue attacking them. And when was the last time any I.R.A bomb went off in England?

So, maybe they would stop attacking U.S interests. Who knows?
But continuing to stand alone in the World by supporting Israel's criminal occupation certainly isn't going to endear the U.S and it's citizens to anyone.