..BIDDU, West Bank (AP) — Ahmad Ayyash once had a construction job in Israel, earning good money. Now he is a goat herder struggling to eke out a living, barred from working in Israel and restricted from entering his olive grove next to this West Bank village.
Ayyash's story is familiar to Palestinians, who face a complicated system of travel restrictions that Israel mostly developed during the height of violence between them and Palestinians, hoping to prevent militants from reaching the Jewish state and West Bank settlements.
The lone Palestinian airport was destroyed in the fighting. The seaport in Gaza is blockaded by Israel's navy. In the West Bank, a system of military checkpoints constrains movement between a hodgepodge of autonomous zones. Movement between the two territories — the linchpins of a future Palestinian state — is virtually impossible.
These restrictions highlight why Palestinians are asking the United Nations this month to recognize their independence in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem — territories captured by Israel in the 1967 Mideast war. It would be a symbolic acknowledgment that Palestinians deserve a cohesive state and give them moral — if not legal — support in challenging restrictions in the West Bank, which are to ensure the safety of Israeli Jews who live there and not within Israel's de facto borders, in defiance of international opinion.
Still, it won't immediately change realities on the ground, where Israel remains in control.
"I'm choking here," said Ayyash, 40. "I'm stuck."
Just over a decade ago, Ayyash entered Israel each morning, earning $50 a day as a laborer — enough to support his wife and five daughters. After peace proposals were rejected in 2000, a violent Palestinian uprising against Israel's occupation flared, and his job quickly ended.
Reacting to waves of Palestinian suicide bombings, Israel banned most laborers from entry. Checkpoints and roadblocks were erected throughout the West Bank.
The territory's 2.6 million Palestinians have some self-rule under the Western-backed Palestinian Authority, but Israel retains overall control. Some 500,000 Jewish settlers live in the West Bank and adjacent east Jerusalem, the Palestinians' hoped-for capital.
Israel's military built a massive separation barrier that kept out attackers but has also gobbled chunks of the West Bank along its meandering route.
The barrier prevents many Palestinians, including Ayyash, from reaching their farmland. Despairing, two years ago he purchased a dozen goats to sell their milk and meat. He earns about $10 a day herding in his village of Biddu, next to the Jewish settlement of Givat Zeev, and only a mile and a half from the Green Line dividing the West Bank from Israel.
Restrictions have kept Israelis safe from attack, alongside security coordination with Palestinian officials. With a lull in violence, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu removed dozens of checkpoints in the past 2½ years, contributing to an economic revival in the West Bank.
"The whole problem is to find a reasonable balance between the demands of the security and allowing the Palestinian population in the West Bank as normal a life as possible and to allow the economy to thrive," said Israeli security analyst Ephraim Sneh, a retired general who once led the military administration overseeing civilian affairs in the West Bank.
But Palestinians say easing restrictions isn't enough. Officials argue while they can understand Israel defending its de-facto border, there are still some 500 obstacles — road blocks, checkpoints, dirt mounds — scattered through the West Bank to protect dozens of Jewish settlements. Those settlements — particularly those deep within the West Bank — hinder the possibility of creating a viable Palestinian state.
In a recent report, the U.N. said Palestinians in some 70 West Bank villages encountered Israeli roadblocks that forced them to use indirect routes that dramatically lengthened their travels and affected their access to employment, education and medical care. The roadblocks were to protect Jewish settlements, military bases and roads used by Israelis.
The Israeli military says it is alleviating restrictions and that thousands of landowners have permits to reach their farms. But Palestinian farmers said the army frequently refuses permission and doesn't allow them — and their helpers — the regular access they need to tend their land.
In parts of the West Bank, Palestinians cannot reach their lands near some settlements because they fear attacks by extremist Jews. In other areas, hard-line Jews fenced off Palestinian land. Israel's army must secure some areas for Palestinians to enter.
Roadblocks and checkpoints string through the biblical West Bank city of Hebron to protect several hundred Jewish settlers who live in fortified enclaves amid 180,000 Palestinians.
The effects are palpable. Palestinian mothers and fathers clutched the hands of their children hands on a recent morning as they walked through Israeli checkpoints to school.
"Come on, champion!" one father urged his sleepy son.
A soldier ordered one youth to stand against a wall, patting him down before he passed. Another soldier spoke in polite Arabic and joked with the youths — some just younger than he.
Access to the Jordan Valley, a fertile strip of land farther north, is largely restricted to registered residents. Even then, most of the area is closed as military zones, nature reserves and Jewish settlements, U.N. officials said.
Entering Israel requires special permission. About 30,000 Palestinians enter Israel for work every day, according to the military, while others receive permission for medical care or to visit relatives.
These restrictions include entrance to east Jerusalem. The area — home to key Jewish, Christian and Muslim sites — was annexed by Israel decades ago as part of its capital. Palestinians say the moves are to cement Israeli control.
In Gaza, 1.5 million Palestinians are mostly penned into the tiny territory.
Palestinians hope to link the West Bank and Gaza, located on either side of Israel, into a single state. But the two territories have little contact, especially since the militant group Hamas seized control of Gaza in 2007.
Since then, Israel and Egypt enforced a blockade to try keep the group in check. Few may leave through the Israeli-controlled border, and Egypt limits movement through its frontier. Hamas demands that Gaza residents obtain its permission before they leave and have denied it to students seeking to study in the U.S.
Miyada Ghanem, a blind Palestinian woman in the West Bank village of Beitin, has little faith that the U.N. vote will change her life.
Fed up with a lengthy bus ride to her university in nearby Ramallah — the result of an Israeli road closure to protect a settlement, Ghanem said she is leaving to pursue her studies in the U.S.
"It's a long wait for this bus," said Ghanem, 24. "I don't think that is going to change."
..
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I am so sorry, you are so much more intelligent then I. I don't know what I was thinking. I should just kiss your ring.....you prick.
Internet tough guy.
I suggest you take your lame comments over to Youtube's comments section where you'll find more like-minded people slinging cheap-shots at each other behind the safety of their computer screens.
so it's o.k. to say the Indians and the Mexicans have no argument in the US then right ?
I mean we are talking about todays world right ?
Godfather.
The Indians have rights based on treaties which are still binding.
They should also have the same basic rights as other citizens of the U.S.
Do they have a legal claim to all of the U.S? No.
just saying man if its 200 years or 2000 years it means just as much to those people as it would anybody else.
Godfather.
We're talking about today's World, not a fantasy World. Some treaties that are 100 years old are still binding.
Israel had no legal claim to any part of the land of Palestine.
But this is beside the point. We're talking about the internationally recognized 1967 borders, which the whole World accepts, including the Palestinians. And which the U.S has stood alone in the World by blocking for the past 40 years.
dude, israel and the jews have their state and place in the world. they are not in any danger, despite the fearmongering and propaganda fed to the gullible.
This is about as ignorant a comment as they come. You know the Jews are only 66 years removed from the Holocaust when millions upon millions of Jews were murdered, right? To say the Jews aren't in trouble when they are surrounded by enemies is ridiculous.
dude, israel and the jews have their state and place in the world. they are not in any danger, despite the fearmongering and propaganda fed to the gullible.
This is about as ignorant a comment as they come. You know the Jews are only 66 years removed from the Holocaust when millions upon millions of Jews were murdered, right? To say the Jews aren't in trouble when they are surrounded by enemies is ridiculous.
no matter where they were they were surrounded by enemies. thats their history. its not right but its there.
i suspect had the settlement of the modern state of israel been handled differently and with deference to the already established communities, both jewish and palestinian, things would be vastly different than they are today. disregarding the palestinians right to also live in their homeland was a major mistake. one both sides are now paying for. and i think the only way it will be resolved is not by the world hammering the issue home but by both sides coming together and actually respecting each other and acknowledging that no matter what religion you are or which culture youve come from, you have a right to live in the land now known as israel.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I am so sorry, you are so much more intelligent then I. I don't know what I was thinking. I should just kiss your ring.....you prick.
Internet tough guy.
I suggest you take your lame comments over to Youtube's comments section where you'll find more like-minded people slinging cheap-shots at each other behind the safety of their computer screens.
No asshole, I am not an internet tough guy and feel free to come to Grand Rapids, MI anytime to discuss it.
I am so sorry, you are so much more intelligent then I. I don't know what I was thinking. I should just kiss your ring.....you prick.
Internet tough guy.
I suggest you take your lame comments over to Youtube's comments section where you'll find more like-minded people slinging cheap-shots at each other behind the safety of their computer screens.
No asshole, I am not an internet tough guy and feel free to come to Grand Rapids, MI anytime to discuss it.
See you've just joined a month ago? You may have already had a private convo with the mods. If not, just a helpful hint. This type of stuff is against the rules and deemed unacceptable here or on any forum of this website. Dial it back a bit on the personal posts.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
See you've just joined a month ago? You may have already had a private convo with the mods. If not, just a helpful hint. This type of stuff is against the rules and deemed unacceptable here or on any forum of this website. Dial it back a bit on the personal posts.
His pro-Israel comments on the first page of this thread were rubbished by reference to some inconvenient facts. Therefore he's spent the last two pages spouting insults and playing the tough guy.
Sorry I am pro-Israel..... This is my final post on this subject, I am also sorry I am a new member to this site. I f I have offended you or the moderators, My apologies but I don't agree with your position. Lets agree to disagree.
Sorry I am pro-Israel..... This is my final post on this subject, I am also sorry I am a new member to this site. I f I have offended you or the moderators, My apologies but I don't agree with your position. Lets agree to disagree.
for what specific reasons are you pro-israel?
what is it that makes you go against the majority of the world in this conflict. check that...occupation??
were you for or against white minority rule in south africa? because the same thing is happening in the israel palestine conflict today...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
dude, israel and the jews have their state and place in the world. they are not in any danger, despite the fearmongering and propaganda fed to the gullible.
This is about as ignorant a comment as they come. You know the Jews are only 66 years removed from the Holocaust when millions upon millions of Jews were murdered, right? To say the Jews aren't in trouble when they are surrounded by enemies is ridiculous.
wow, the foundation of the current state of israel (a supposed safe haven for jews) was the result of the now illegitimate league of nations backed by the colonialist british. the very same league of nations that stood back and saw no problem with fascist italy invade their african 'territories' and the nazis invade poland prior to WW2. the region where the jews were settled in had no consultation with the 'palestinian' land nor did the surrounding regions. no matter the emotional feeling, for those in the area this was a provocative measure and if it happened now it would be deemed illegal. i'm not at all denying the need for a home for the jewish people, but you have to understand the complexities of israel being dropped into a region that had already a people living there and historically had conflicting relations with jews.
also, when the state of israel was founded, the leaders of that state made publicly clear their determination for the establishment of an israeli land based on biblical terms. now again, this is totally provocative and out of order.
gaza is the victim of ethnic cleansing and genocide -- as proscribed by international law. israel has the 4th or 5th larget military on the planet. gaza/palestine has no national military or air force or navy. it can't defend itself, which israel exploit with their power via US tax dollars. this is totally immoral and unethical.
another fact that may escape zionist apoloists is that israel break more UN resolutions and international laws than any other nation on the planet -- even more that the bogeymen of iran and north korea.
Post edited by The Great Cornholio on
...Pearl Jam, a group filled with pride, passion, and intricate musicianship. Their music is full of subtle textures, rich color, soul-searching power, imagery, and eerie dissonance.
qimpy20, you've embarrassed yourself amongst adults. go back to your tea party lies and propaganda.
...Pearl Jam, a group filled with pride, passion, and intricate musicianship. Their music is full of subtle textures, rich color, soul-searching power, imagery, and eerie dissonance.
a region that had already a people living there and historically had conflicting relations with jews.
not true, muslims and jews lived relatively in peace until the modern zionist movement began to gain more ground.
true, though historically the jewsih inhabitants where expelled from that land by the romans to make way for what was then called 'syria-palaestina' and what is now designated palestine land (which is not their fault)
you are correct that jews and muslims lived peacefully together. it was only until western intervention and zionist 'moderation' that conflict occured.
...Pearl Jam, a group filled with pride, passion, and intricate musicianship. Their music is full of subtle textures, rich color, soul-searching power, imagery, and eerie dissonance.
muslims and jews lived relatively in peace until the modern zionist movement began to gain more ground.
Right, and in fact many Jews living in that region in the early 20th Century opposed the influx of Zionists and the later founding of the State of Israel, because they knew it would only lead to conflict.
muslims and jews lived relatively in peace until the modern zionist movement began to gain more ground.
Right, and in fact many Jews living in that region in the early 20th Century opposed the influx of Zionists and the later founding of the State of Israel, because they knew it would only lead to conflict.
So basically I can conclude you are anti-Semitic. It is becoming obvious.
muslims and jews lived relatively in peace until the modern zionist movement began to gain more ground.
Right, and in fact many Jews living in that region in the early 20th Century opposed the influx of Zionists and the later founding of the State of Israel, because they knew it would only lead to conflict.
So basically I can conclude you are anti-Semitic. It is becoming obvious.
muslims and jews lived relatively in peace until the modern zionist movement began to gain more ground.
Right, and in fact many Jews living in that region in the early 20th Century opposed the influx of Zionists and the later founding of the State of Israel, because they knew it would only lead to conflict.
So basically I can conclude you are anti-Semitic. It is becoming obvious.
please share with us how being opposed to the philosophy of Zionism(which as I understand it is establishing a racially pure, nationalist state, sounding an awful lot like another country in the 1930's or barring that another aparteid like state) is anti semetic?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
This just goes to show once again that the U.S is not an honest broker for peace and doesn't a fuck about the rights of the Palestinians.
But then the whole World knows this now.
And yet Americans still scratch their heads and wonder why they are hated, and why things such as 9/11 occur?
But Obama continues to throw Jews under the Bus. So who's rights should America be concerned with? The Jews or the Palestinians???? I put my Support with Israel.
President Obama, just like Reagan and GW Bush in their support for a Palestinian state, again, stipulated that clause, which neither Israel or the Palestinian representative would meet, a withdrawal of UN Resolution 242, which mandates a return to the ‘1967’ border and was unanimously approved by the full UN Security Council. Also, now in the mist of this dispute is UN Resolution 338, regarding Israel’s unlawful settlement activity into the areas that were to be resolved by Resolution 242.
The US has not been in favor of a Palestinian State; it’s always been a dog-n-pony show, just like the talks between North/South Korea. However, now that the Palestinian’s have a ‘real’ chance of being recognized by the UN the pressure is on Israel to ensure that the US supports a ‘NO’ vote. WHY you ask – because Israel is NOT is member of the UN, it is only an observer. Even though the US could stop aid to any Palestinian entity, as it did with Gaza and the Hamas leadership – as a full UN member the US would have to support and afford a Palestinian state the same rights, privileges and, yes, protections as it is sworn to do with the South Korea, Japan, Germany, and so on and so on. If the US decided it did not want to intervene to help, Russia and China as full members of the UN could step in and assist the Palestinian state.
Post edited by puremagic on
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
muslims and jews lived relatively in peace until the modern zionist movement began to gain more ground.
Right, and in fact many Jews living in that region in the early 20th Century opposed the influx of Zionists and the later founding of the State of Israel, because they knew it would only lead to conflict.
True. Not just that, Jews living in the region were opposed to the narrative European Jewish Zionists were trying to create (this arab v jew thing) because Jews living in the Middle East considered themselves Arab. So, how can you have an ideology preaching a state for Jewish people, exclusive of Arabs, when many of these Jews considered themselves Arab and identified more closely with Arabs than with European Jews. And once the Zionists began their terrorist operations in Palestine and began making their Zionist dream more of a reality with European and Western help, Arab Jews did indeed have a harder time living in this environment, and eventually many migrated or were forced to go to Israel. Once they arrived there, they were treated as second-class citizens by the European Jews precisely because they were seen as too 'Arab' and not white enough for them. This is still a problem today, and the biggest sign of this is the fact that European Jews are much more financially well off than Arab Jews. The issue with Zionism is not only racism against non-Jews, but even against Arab, and more obviously Ethopian and African Jews as well! It a racist ideology from start to finish and does not belong in a supposed 21st century, post-colonial, liberal and globalized world.
muslims and jews lived relatively in peace until the modern zionist movement began to gain more ground.
Right, and in fact many Jews living in that region in the early 20th Century opposed the influx of Zionists and the later founding of the State of Israel, because they knew it would only lead to conflict.
So basically I can conclude you are anti-Semitic. It is becoming obvious.
new flash...you can oppose the policies of the israeli government and still not be an anti-semite. that would be like me calling you anti-muslim because you don't support a palestinian state. that is a slippery slope you are on my friend...
is everything black and white with you?
again i will ask, for what reasons do you support israel?? i am sure most of us would like to know so we can better understand where you are coming from with your posts...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
[/quote]
new flash...you can oppose the policies of the israeli government and still not be an anti-semite. that would be like me calling you anti-muslim because you don't support a palestinian state. that is a slippery slope you are on my friend...
is everything black and white with you?
again i will ask, for what reasons do you support israel?? i am sure most of us would like to know so we can better understand where you are coming from with your posts...[/quote]
My support of Israel is purely a personal one. I am not claiming to be an expert though I know enough to get in trouble. A lot of my believes come from my conversations I have had with my Jewish friends and their concerns over a Palestinian state.
My support of Israel is purely a personal one. I am not claiming to be an expert though I know enough to get in trouble. A lot of my believes come from my conversations I have had with my Jewish friends and their concerns over a Palestinian state.
so the denial of human rights, civil rights and of freedom is of no concern to you or your 'friends' ?
what do your 'friends' find concerning about the legitimacy of a palestinian state ?
...Pearl Jam, a group filled with pride, passion, and intricate musicianship. Their music is full of subtle textures, rich color, soul-searching power, imagery, and eerie dissonance.
Comments
You are an idiot. Please stay in China.
Israel prevents Palestinians from free movement
http://news.yahoo.com/israel-prevents-p ... 59121.html
..BIDDU, West Bank (AP) — Ahmad Ayyash once had a construction job in Israel, earning good money. Now he is a goat herder struggling to eke out a living, barred from working in Israel and restricted from entering his olive grove next to this West Bank village.
Ayyash's story is familiar to Palestinians, who face a complicated system of travel restrictions that Israel mostly developed during the height of violence between them and Palestinians, hoping to prevent militants from reaching the Jewish state and West Bank settlements.
The lone Palestinian airport was destroyed in the fighting. The seaport in Gaza is blockaded by Israel's navy. In the West Bank, a system of military checkpoints constrains movement between a hodgepodge of autonomous zones. Movement between the two territories — the linchpins of a future Palestinian state — is virtually impossible.
These restrictions highlight why Palestinians are asking the United Nations this month to recognize their independence in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem — territories captured by Israel in the 1967 Mideast war. It would be a symbolic acknowledgment that Palestinians deserve a cohesive state and give them moral — if not legal — support in challenging restrictions in the West Bank, which are to ensure the safety of Israeli Jews who live there and not within Israel's de facto borders, in defiance of international opinion.
Still, it won't immediately change realities on the ground, where Israel remains in control.
"I'm choking here," said Ayyash, 40. "I'm stuck."
Just over a decade ago, Ayyash entered Israel each morning, earning $50 a day as a laborer — enough to support his wife and five daughters. After peace proposals were rejected in 2000, a violent Palestinian uprising against Israel's occupation flared, and his job quickly ended.
Reacting to waves of Palestinian suicide bombings, Israel banned most laborers from entry. Checkpoints and roadblocks were erected throughout the West Bank.
The territory's 2.6 million Palestinians have some self-rule under the Western-backed Palestinian Authority, but Israel retains overall control. Some 500,000 Jewish settlers live in the West Bank and adjacent east Jerusalem, the Palestinians' hoped-for capital.
Israel's military built a massive separation barrier that kept out attackers but has also gobbled chunks of the West Bank along its meandering route.
The barrier prevents many Palestinians, including Ayyash, from reaching their farmland. Despairing, two years ago he purchased a dozen goats to sell their milk and meat. He earns about $10 a day herding in his village of Biddu, next to the Jewish settlement of Givat Zeev, and only a mile and a half from the Green Line dividing the West Bank from Israel.
Restrictions have kept Israelis safe from attack, alongside security coordination with Palestinian officials. With a lull in violence, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu removed dozens of checkpoints in the past 2½ years, contributing to an economic revival in the West Bank.
"The whole problem is to find a reasonable balance between the demands of the security and allowing the Palestinian population in the West Bank as normal a life as possible and to allow the economy to thrive," said Israeli security analyst Ephraim Sneh, a retired general who once led the military administration overseeing civilian affairs in the West Bank.
But Palestinians say easing restrictions isn't enough. Officials argue while they can understand Israel defending its de-facto border, there are still some 500 obstacles — road blocks, checkpoints, dirt mounds — scattered through the West Bank to protect dozens of Jewish settlements. Those settlements — particularly those deep within the West Bank — hinder the possibility of creating a viable Palestinian state.
In a recent report, the U.N. said Palestinians in some 70 West Bank villages encountered Israeli roadblocks that forced them to use indirect routes that dramatically lengthened their travels and affected their access to employment, education and medical care. The roadblocks were to protect Jewish settlements, military bases and roads used by Israelis.
The Israeli military says it is alleviating restrictions and that thousands of landowners have permits to reach their farms. But Palestinian farmers said the army frequently refuses permission and doesn't allow them — and their helpers — the regular access they need to tend their land.
In parts of the West Bank, Palestinians cannot reach their lands near some settlements because they fear attacks by extremist Jews. In other areas, hard-line Jews fenced off Palestinian land. Israel's army must secure some areas for Palestinians to enter.
Roadblocks and checkpoints string through the biblical West Bank city of Hebron to protect several hundred Jewish settlers who live in fortified enclaves amid 180,000 Palestinians.
The effects are palpable. Palestinian mothers and fathers clutched the hands of their children hands on a recent morning as they walked through Israeli checkpoints to school.
"Come on, champion!" one father urged his sleepy son.
A soldier ordered one youth to stand against a wall, patting him down before he passed. Another soldier spoke in polite Arabic and joked with the youths — some just younger than he.
Access to the Jordan Valley, a fertile strip of land farther north, is largely restricted to registered residents. Even then, most of the area is closed as military zones, nature reserves and Jewish settlements, U.N. officials said.
Entering Israel requires special permission. About 30,000 Palestinians enter Israel for work every day, according to the military, while others receive permission for medical care or to visit relatives.
These restrictions include entrance to east Jerusalem. The area — home to key Jewish, Christian and Muslim sites — was annexed by Israel decades ago as part of its capital. Palestinians say the moves are to cement Israeli control.
In Gaza, 1.5 million Palestinians are mostly penned into the tiny territory.
Palestinians hope to link the West Bank and Gaza, located on either side of Israel, into a single state. But the two territories have little contact, especially since the militant group Hamas seized control of Gaza in 2007.
Since then, Israel and Egypt enforced a blockade to try keep the group in check. Few may leave through the Israeli-controlled border, and Egypt limits movement through its frontier. Hamas demands that Gaza residents obtain its permission before they leave and have denied it to students seeking to study in the U.S.
Miyada Ghanem, a blind Palestinian woman in the West Bank village of Beitin, has little faith that the U.N. vote will change her life.
Fed up with a lengthy bus ride to her university in nearby Ramallah — the result of an Israeli road closure to protect a settlement, Ghanem said she is leaving to pursue her studies in the U.S.
"It's a long wait for this bus," said Ghanem, 24. "I don't think that is going to change."
..
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Let me know when you have anything constructive to say.
and which ring would that be exactly.. cause im having some wild thoughts here.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Internet tough guy.
I suggest you take your lame comments over to Youtube's comments section where you'll find more like-minded people slinging cheap-shots at each other behind the safety of their computer screens.
We're talking about today's World, not a fantasy World. Some treaties that are 100 years old are still binding.
Israel had no legal claim to any part of the land of Palestine.
But this is beside the point. We're talking about the internationally recognized 1967 borders, which the whole World accepts, including the Palestinians. And which the U.S has stood alone in the World by blocking for the past 40 years.
This is about as ignorant a comment as they come. You know the Jews are only 66 years removed from the Holocaust when millions upon millions of Jews were murdered, right? To say the Jews aren't in trouble when they are surrounded by enemies is ridiculous.
no matter where they were they were surrounded by enemies. thats their history. its not right but its there.
i suspect had the settlement of the modern state of israel been handled differently and with deference to the already established communities, both jewish and palestinian, things would be vastly different than they are today. disregarding the palestinians right to also live in their homeland was a major mistake. one both sides are now paying for. and i think the only way it will be resolved is not by the world hammering the issue home but by both sides coming together and actually respecting each other and acknowledging that no matter what religion you are or which culture youve come from, you have a right to live in the land now known as israel.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
His pro-Israel comments on the first page of this thread were rubbished by reference to some inconvenient facts. Therefore he's spent the last two pages spouting insults and playing the tough guy.
He's not the first, and he won't be the last.
what is it that makes you go against the majority of the world in this conflict. check that...occupation??
were you for or against white minority rule in south africa? because the same thing is happening in the israel palestine conflict today...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
wow, the foundation of the current state of israel (a supposed safe haven for jews) was the result of the now illegitimate league of nations backed by the colonialist british. the very same league of nations that stood back and saw no problem with fascist italy invade their african 'territories' and the nazis invade poland prior to WW2. the region where the jews were settled in had no consultation with the 'palestinian' land nor did the surrounding regions. no matter the emotional feeling, for those in the area this was a provocative measure and if it happened now it would be deemed illegal. i'm not at all denying the need for a home for the jewish people, but you have to understand the complexities of israel being dropped into a region that had already a people living there and historically had conflicting relations with jews.
also, when the state of israel was founded, the leaders of that state made publicly clear their determination for the establishment of an israeli land based on biblical terms. now again, this is totally provocative and out of order.
gaza is the victim of ethnic cleansing and genocide -- as proscribed by international law. israel has the 4th or 5th larget military on the planet. gaza/palestine has no national military or air force or navy. it can't defend itself, which israel exploit with their power via US tax dollars. this is totally immoral and unethical.
another fact that may escape zionist apoloists is that israel break more UN resolutions and international laws than any other nation on the planet -- even more that the bogeymen of iran and north korea.
true, though historically the jewsih inhabitants where expelled from that land by the romans to make way for what was then called 'syria-palaestina' and what is now designated palestine land (which is not their fault)
you are correct that jews and muslims lived peacefully together. it was only until western intervention and zionist 'moderation' that conflict occured.
Right, and in fact many Jews living in that region in the early 20th Century opposed the influx of Zionists and the later founding of the State of Israel, because they knew it would only lead to conflict.
So basically I can conclude you are anti-Semitic. It is becoming obvious.
Keep it up genius!
Godfather.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
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President Obama, just like Reagan and GW Bush in their support for a Palestinian state, again, stipulated that clause, which neither Israel or the Palestinian representative would meet, a withdrawal of UN Resolution 242, which mandates a return to the ‘1967’ border and was unanimously approved by the full UN Security Council. Also, now in the mist of this dispute is UN Resolution 338, regarding Israel’s unlawful settlement activity into the areas that were to be resolved by Resolution 242.
The US has not been in favor of a Palestinian State; it’s always been a dog-n-pony show, just like the talks between North/South Korea. However, now that the Palestinian’s have a ‘real’ chance of being recognized by the UN the pressure is on Israel to ensure that the US supports a ‘NO’ vote. WHY you ask – because Israel is NOT is member of the UN, it is only an observer. Even though the US could stop aid to any Palestinian entity, as it did with Gaza and the Hamas leadership – as a full UN member the US would have to support and afford a Palestinian state the same rights, privileges and, yes, protections as it is sworn to do with the South Korea, Japan, Germany, and so on and so on. If the US decided it did not want to intervene to help, Russia and China as full members of the UN could step in and assist the Palestinian state.
is everything black and white with you?
again i will ask, for what reasons do you support israel?? i am sure most of us would like to know so we can better understand where you are coming from with your posts...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Amen....... I agree 100% with you statement.
new flash...you can oppose the policies of the israeli government and still not be an anti-semite. that would be like me calling you anti-muslim because you don't support a palestinian state. that is a slippery slope you are on my friend...
is everything black and white with you?
again i will ask, for what reasons do you support israel?? i am sure most of us would like to know so we can better understand where you are coming from with your posts...[/quote]
My support of Israel is purely a personal one. I am not claiming to be an expert though I know enough to get in trouble. A lot of my believes come from my conversations I have had with my Jewish friends and their concerns over a Palestinian state.
so the denial of human rights, civil rights and of freedom is of no concern to you or your 'friends' ?
what do your 'friends' find concerning about the legitimacy of a palestinian state ?