I have no problem with the parents that had seats in front of me. they were either guests or had 10C numbers. I couldnt care less who they bring with them.
I'm not a parent, but I would be seriously concerned about a young child's hearing by bringing them to a concert, even with protection. (parents that dont have protection for their kids should be arrested). also, I dont remember much from when I was 3 or 4 years old and in both cases in Toronto, the child looked very bored and the parent and child left early. just have to question why people bring young children to shows, but hey, to each their own.
EDIT, also, if I did ever bring a child to a show, I would try to find seats where the child could actually see rather than think that floor seats will be enjoyable.
i wasn't close by but it sure looked like the kid on the shoulders who got the tambourine was just miserable
his dad started playing the tambourine while the kid sat their slouched waiting for Dora to take the stage
I've never encouraged or said any of that is a good thing.
Don't pigeon hole my point based on your clear disgust that you didn't get a guitar pick.
My kids weren't at the concert.
You aren't teaching me anything other then people who have these self righteous opinions stand at concerts idley by and instead of confronting these parents that disgust them they hijack threads about the lottery of the 10c to make these powerful statements of their "facts of life".
If parents take kids to concerts and they aren't my kids, it isn't really my business (now is it)?
If I see someone smoke pot into a kids face at a concert I will stand by and judge the kids parents for having the nerve to bring a kid to a concert while that fine gentleman smokes his illegal drugs.
See... Extreme example of blaming the victim, not the real problem.
"Honesty will always be construed as negative to a dumbass"
:-)
I've never encouraged or said any of that is a good thing.
Don't pigeon hole my point based on your clear disgust that you didn't get a guitar pick.
My kids weren't at the concert.
You aren't teaching me anything other then people who have these self righteous opinions stand at concerts idley by and instead of confronting these parents that disgust them they hijack threads about the lottery of the 10c to make these powerful statements of their "facts of life".
If parents take kids to concerts and they aren't my kids, it isn't really my business (now is it)?
If I see someone smoke pot into a kids face at a concert I will stand by and judge the kids parents for having the nerve to bring a kid to a concert while that fine gentleman smokes his illegal drugs.
See... Extreme example of blaming the victim, not the real problem.
No one said they missed a pick and are on a rampage on kids over it. You are clearly bending things to try and make yourself above everyone while calling us the entitled ones.
Please don't call other people entitled until you can actually look at things objectively. I'm not a parent but I can tell when kids are in a bad situation. Its not my place to tell them that - I dont have any control over what they do, but it doesnt mean they're right because they are parents.
Just because you're a parent doesn't automatically make you any better at it than someone who doesn't have a kid. And if you're going to tell me I'm wrong I'd like to introduce you to Casey Anthony (or anyone on Maury or half the people in my town). Of course I'm just bitter I missed out a pick so how I can I possibly think straight.
E. Lansing-98 Columbus-00,03,10 Detroit-00,03 (1&2),06, 14 Cleveland-03,06,10 Toledo-04, Grand Rapids-04,06 London-05, Toronto-05, Indianapolis 10, East Troy (1&2) 11, Chicago 13, Detroit 14
There are no exclusions. All members have opportunity to end up in lottery from the most senior members, to least senior members.
These are chosen through a randomized selection. There is no “who you know” to it. We absolutely do not play that game, it’s just not what we are about.
The number of lottery seats depend on how many seats fall into those 4 rows. So it’s completely specific to each venue’s seating layout.
The process has been the same since we started the lottery process.
Best,
10c
(emphasis added)
For what it's worth, the example posted by shawnb199 is just an example, trying to illustrate the general nature of the process. The fact is, the more shows you go to, the better your chance of winning the lottery, but as in all random processes weird things happen, and those are the stories you end up hearing. That phenomenon even has a name, it's called "selection bias".
I believe the 10 Club, the process is completely random. Has anyone in the long chain of people who handle the tickets ever cheated ever, over the course of thousands of shows? Maybe. But in the overwhelmingly vast majority of cases, it's completely fucking random.
These math numbers make no sense at all because not everyone in row 1, 2, 9 & 10 are lottery winners from the 10 Club. So assuming you can figure out a mathematical equation without knowing how many seats are in those lottery rows is foolish.
Without knowing how many winners there are per night and how many actual seats there are each night, no mathematical equation will work.
The equation works just fine. You can modify the assumption and see that there's still a pretty good chance of repeat winners, for instance.
Let's assume instead that your chances of winning are only 1 in 80 instead of the 1 in 40 I used before, and 50 people won on night 1. The odds that at least one of those 50 would win again on night 2 are still almost 50%.
1 in 80, but only 25 people win each night. Odds of at least one repeat winner are still about 27%.
I'm sorry, but it's just not that difficult to believe that multiple winners, even consecutive winners, have happened through nothing more than random chance.
When I buy a ticket for Powerball, or a $1 scratch off I don't get pissy that I didn't win. Same applies to the seats. I go to the shows knowing my seats will be what they are. I full out never think I will ever win the lottery
Year after year I am always near the same guys....... If the 10c is anything they are fair (and it takes a lot of hard work to manage our seats ) I so appreciate it especially each and every time I get and isle seat my gosh does it make my life better!!! It's the litte things in life
Life has a way of sending enough disappointments ones way without adding needless ones to the list.
Enjoy the show and don't worry so much about things you can't control.
“This is a ah another request fulfillment. If none of the other of you like it at least one guy does. Actually it’s a girl, she’s right back there.”
SMILE Eddie Vedder Cleveland 06.....
People have been saying that the more shows you go to the better your chances are to get Lotto seats. If I remember my stats and I'm not ShawnB199 (help me out buddy), but I think that is a false statement. Your chances are what ever they are for that specific venue. So if Alpine they were 1 in 50 and in Toronto they are 1 in 50 and in Ottowa they are 1 in 50. By the time you get to Ottowa you chances are not now 3 in 50 since you have not won, they are still just 1 in 50. That being said, I've been to 11 shows since 2006 and 9 since 2008 with 10C tickets and I have yet to win the lotto, I wonder if that is rare or not, I don't know enough to be able to figure that out. But I do know that just because I have all those losses in my pocket I don't have a better chance of winning next time, I still have a 1 in 50 or 1 in 60 or whatever it is venue specific chance of winning. What may bother me a little bit is knowing that someone that has won lottery once or twice or 3 times or more still has the exact same shot as me for winning on any given show. So they could get their 2nd or more lotto shows, before I even get my first.
I would like some more transparancy on this lotto thing, but I'm not sure what to ask for or how to get it.
Thanks, Chris.
People have been saying that the more shows you go to the better your chances are to get Lotto seats. If I remember my stats and I'm not ShawnB199 (help me out buddy), but I think that is a false statement. Your chances are what ever they are for that specific venue. So if Alpine they were 1 in 50 and in Toronto they are 1 in 50 and in Ottowa they are 1 in 50. By the time you get to Ottowa you chances are not now 3 in 50 since you have not won, they are still just 1 in 50. That being said, I've been to 11 shows since 2006 and 9 since 2008 with 10C tickets and I have yet to win the lotto, I wonder if that is rare or not, I don't know enough to be able to figure that out. But I do know that just because I have all those losses in my pocket I don't have a better chance of winning next time, I still have a 1 in 50 or 1 in 60 or whatever it is venue specific chance of winning. What may bother me a little bit is knowing that someone that has won lottery once or twice or 3 times or more still has the exact same shot as me for winning on any given show. So they could get their 2nd or more lotto shows, before I even get my first.
I would like some more transparancy on this lotto thing, but I'm not sure what to ask for or how to get it.
Thanks, Chris.
It's quite simple. Think of a lottery ticket you purchase at a convenience store. Someone who purchases one every week has a better chance of winning over their "lifetime" than someone who purchases one ticket a year. Take your case. Someone who may have been to fifty shows since 2006 to your 11 has 39 more chances to have actually hit the lottery. There is nothing going on with the Ten Club fixing the lottery.
Since 2006 I've been to about 30-32 shows and never won... I'm not expecting to win as my number is good, but that's why I'm thinking theres no way I will ever win - had to go on that long of a losing streak, but I know there are others in the same boat.
Like I said earlier - I'm not mad about it since my seats are always great, but I'm hoping one of these days to hit it and get up front just once. It'll happen... just gotta believe, right?
My cousin won the Washington State Lottery, maybe 25 years ago. They have a saying, "Some lucky dog's gonna win it." So don't give up hope on getting those front row seats...
That being said, I don't play the lottery, because it's a waste of time and money. It's basically a regressive tax - mostly poor people play it, and more than half the money goes to the state (directly and in taxes). In some sense you pay your dollar to be able to dream about what you'd do with a million, I guess that has some value if you are trapped in poverty, but you wonder if that dollar could not buy something more helpful than a dream.
Going to more shows doesn't increase your chances. You still have the same odds at each show, they never improve.
True you have the same shot for each show but if you go to more shows you do increase your chances of actually winning. If a member has been to one show over their life they were only in the lottery pool once but a member who has been to fifty shows had fifty chances to hit the lottery.
Going to more shows doesn't increase your chances. You still have the same odds at each show, they never improve.
True you have the same shot for each show but if you go to more shows you do increase your chances of actually winning. If a member has been to one show over their life they were only in the lottery pool once but a member who has been to fifty shows had fifty chances to hit the lottery.
The only way your odds increase is if you have more than one member number at the same show. Your odds will always be the same no matter how many times you go.
Well... all I can say is that I got 2nd row last year in Cleveland, 9th row for the last Toronto show and 2nd row again for last night's show in Ottawa. Yesterday's was my 17th show; average if I see some of you that can follow them for numbers of shows.
I didn't do anything different, I don't know anyone in the Pearl Jam organization, my number is average (192xxx)... so... all of you out there thinking there's a conspiracy theory should think again.
You're not what you own - Ian MacKaye, Fugazi
98 - Montreal 00 - Montreal 03 - Toronto, Montreal 04 - Boston (Show #1) 05 - Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 06 - Toronto (Show #1) 09 - Toronto, Philly (Show #3-4) 10 - Cleveland 11 - Montreal, Toronto (x2), Ottawa 13 - London (ON), Philly (x2) 16 - QC - Ottawa
Going to more shows doesn't increase your chances. You still have the same odds at each show, they never improve.
True you have the same shot for each show but if you go to more shows you do increase your chances of actually winning. If a member has been to one show over their life they were only in the lottery pool once but a member who has been to fifty shows had fifty chances to hit the lottery.
Does going to shows increase your chances of seeing kids at shows?
:crazy: :wtf: :crazy:
"Honesty will always be construed as negative to a dumbass"
:-)
Going to more shows doesn't increase your chances. You still have the same odds at each show, they never improve.
True you have the same shot for each show but if you go to more shows you do increase your chances of actually winning. If a member has been to one show over their life they were only in the lottery pool once but a member who has been to fifty shows had fifty chances to hit the lottery.
The only way your odds increase is if you have more than one member number at the same show. Your odds will always be the same no matter how many times you go.
You're totally correct but I don't think my point is translating well the way I'm typing it. The more shows you attend over a lifetime the more likely it is to hit the lottery at some point. I went to only one Canadian show, Montreal, so I had one "chance" at winning the lottery. Another member who went to all the Canadian shows would have nine "chances" at winning the lottery. Another member who is attending zero Canadian shows has zero "chances" of hitting the lottery.
Going to more shows doesn't increase your chances. You still have the same odds at each show, they never improve.
True you have the same shot for each show but if you go to more shows you do increase your chances of actually winning. If a member has been to one show over their life they were only in the lottery pool once but a member who has been to fifty shows had fifty chances to hit the lottery.
Does going to shows increase your chances of seeing kids at shows?
Every show is completely different and is unrelated to any previous or future show when choosing random lottery winners.
Assuming 2000 10c members at each show, with 50 lottery seats given every member has 1:40 chance of getting a lottery seat. That would be 1:40 for each and every show. No more. No less.
Mathematics is blind and impartial. If someone wins multiple times and someone wins none, mathematics has deemed it to be so, and it is very plausible that this can be the case since everyone has an equal chance to win for every show.
Granted, this also assumes no funny business and/or direct human interaction in the mathematical formula; but there hasn't been proof of that thus far.
I agree that you member number doesn't impact your chances. I have a good number (28XXX) and I won 1st row lottery at night 2 of PJ20. It was my first time winning the lottery. This at least proves that the lottery is not limited to only higher numbers over 100,000.
'95 - San Diego
'98 - Phoenix, San Diego, Las Vegas, Inglewood 1-2
'00 - San Bernardino
'03 - Denver, Council Bluffs
'06 - Denver 1-2, Los Angeles 1-2
'09 - Universal City, San Diego
'11 - PJ20
Comments
i wasn't close by but it sure looked like the kid on the shoulders who got the tambourine was just miserable
his dad started playing the tambourine while the kid sat their slouched waiting for Dora to take the stage
Don't pigeon hole my point based on your clear disgust that you didn't get a guitar pick.
My kids weren't at the concert.
You aren't teaching me anything other then people who have these self righteous opinions stand at concerts idley by and instead of confronting these parents that disgust them they hijack threads about the lottery of the 10c to make these powerful statements of their "facts of life".
If parents take kids to concerts and they aren't my kids, it isn't really my business (now is it)?
If I see someone smoke pot into a kids face at a concert I will stand by and judge the kids parents for having the nerve to bring a kid to a concert while that fine gentleman smokes his illegal drugs.
See... Extreme example of blaming the victim, not the real problem.
:-)
Please don't call other people entitled until you can actually look at things objectively. I'm not a parent but I can tell when kids are in a bad situation. Its not my place to tell them that - I dont have any control over what they do, but it doesnt mean they're right because they are parents.
Just because you're a parent doesn't automatically make you any better at it than someone who doesn't have a kid. And if you're going to tell me I'm wrong I'd like to introduce you to Casey Anthony (or anyone on Maury or half the people in my town). Of course I'm just bitter I missed out a pick so how I can I possibly think straight.
I don't agree with it.
Parents make terrible decisions, it is very true.
My perspectives are from my perspectives.
:-)
Get your popcorn ready!
:-)
It won't get locked...
Admins got bored of it yesterday.
I'll spin it back into lottery talk.
Damn does the 10c screw me and only gives lotto tickets to other people!
:-)
https://www.facebook.com/aghostwritersapology/
I sent an email to the 10 Club asking some questions about the lottery, and got a reply in 26 minutes:
For what it's worth, the example posted by shawnb199 is just an example, trying to illustrate the general nature of the process. The fact is, the more shows you go to, the better your chance of winning the lottery, but as in all random processes weird things happen, and those are the stories you end up hearing. That phenomenon even has a name, it's called "selection bias".
I believe the 10 Club, the process is completely random. Has anyone in the long chain of people who handle the tickets ever cheated ever, over the course of thousands of shows? Maybe. But in the overwhelmingly vast majority of cases, it's completely fucking random.
Peace and see you in Vancouver.
Let's assume instead that your chances of winning are only 1 in 80 instead of the 1 in 40 I used before, and 50 people won on night 1. The odds that at least one of those 50 would win again on night 2 are still almost 50%.
1 in 80, but only 25 people win each night. Odds of at least one repeat winner are still about 27%.
I'm sorry, but it's just not that difficult to believe that multiple winners, even consecutive winners, have happened through nothing more than random chance.
Year after year I am always near the same guys....... If the 10c is anything they are fair (and it takes a lot of hard work to manage our seats ) I so appreciate it especially each and every time I get and isle seat my gosh does it make my life better!!! It's the litte things in life
Life has a way of sending enough disappointments ones way without adding needless ones to the list.
Enjoy the show and don't worry so much about things you can't control.
SMILE Eddie Vedder Cleveland 06.....
I would like some more transparancy on this lotto thing, but I'm not sure what to ask for or how to get it.
Thanks, Chris.
It's quite simple. Think of a lottery ticket you purchase at a convenience store. Someone who purchases one every week has a better chance of winning over their "lifetime" than someone who purchases one ticket a year. Take your case. Someone who may have been to fifty shows since 2006 to your 11 has 39 more chances to have actually hit the lottery. There is nothing going on with the Ten Club fixing the lottery.
Since 2006 I've been to about 30-32 shows and never won... I'm not expecting to win as my number is good, but that's why I'm thinking theres no way I will ever win - had to go on that long of a losing streak, but I know there are others in the same boat.
Like I said earlier - I'm not mad about it since my seats are always great, but I'm hoping one of these days to hit it and get up front just once. It'll happen... just gotta believe, right?
That being said, I don't play the lottery, because it's a waste of time and money. It's basically a regressive tax - mostly poor people play it, and more than half the money goes to the state (directly and in taxes). In some sense you pay your dollar to be able to dream about what you'd do with a million, I guess that has some value if you are trapped in poverty, but you wonder if that dollar could not buy something more helpful than a dream.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=170365&start=15#p3915985
136xxx getting front row
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=170365&start=30#p3916200
8/15/92, 9/28/96, 8/28/98, 8/29/98, 9/18/98, 8/3/00, 8/9/00, 8/10/00, 8/23/00, 8/25/00, 9/1/00, 9/2/00, 4/28/03, 6/18/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 6/19/08, 10/27/09, 10/31/09, 5/21/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 10/21/13
More to Come....
True you have the same shot for each show but if you go to more shows you do increase your chances of actually winning. If a member has been to one show over their life they were only in the lottery pool once but a member who has been to fifty shows had fifty chances to hit the lottery.
The only way your odds increase is if you have more than one member number at the same show. Your odds will always be the same no matter how many times you go.
8/15/92, 9/28/96, 8/28/98, 8/29/98, 9/18/98, 8/3/00, 8/9/00, 8/10/00, 8/23/00, 8/25/00, 9/1/00, 9/2/00, 4/28/03, 6/18/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 6/19/08, 10/27/09, 10/31/09, 5/21/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 10/21/13
More to Come....
Jeremy
I didn't do anything different, I don't know anyone in the Pearl Jam organization, my number is average (192xxx)... so... all of you out there thinking there's a conspiracy theory should think again.
98 - Montreal
00 - Montreal
03 - Toronto, Montreal
04 - Boston (Show #1)
05 - Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
06 - Toronto (Show #1)
09 - Toronto, Philly (Show #3-4)
10 - Cleveland
11 - Montreal, Toronto (x2), Ottawa
13 - London (ON), Philly (x2)
16 - QC - Ottawa
Does going to shows increase your chances of seeing kids at shows?
:crazy: :wtf: :crazy:
:-)
You're totally correct but I don't think my point is translating well the way I'm typing it. The more shows you attend over a lifetime the more likely it is to hit the lottery at some point. I went to only one Canadian show, Montreal, so I had one "chance" at winning the lottery. Another member who went to all the Canadian shows would have nine "chances" at winning the lottery. Another member who is attending zero Canadian shows has zero "chances" of hitting the lottery.
The way it's trending now...yes.
:-)
Every show is completely different and is unrelated to any previous or future show when choosing random lottery winners.
Assuming 2000 10c members at each show, with 50 lottery seats given every member has 1:40 chance of getting a lottery seat. That would be 1:40 for each and every show. No more. No less.
Mathematics is blind and impartial. If someone wins multiple times and someone wins none, mathematics has deemed it to be so, and it is very plausible that this can be the case since everyone has an equal chance to win for every show.
Granted, this also assumes no funny business and/or direct human interaction in the mathematical formula; but there hasn't been proof of that thus far.
Sacramento, 7/16/1998
San Francisco, 7/18/2006
Oakland, 7/11/2011 (Eddie Vedder)
Vancouver, BC, 9/25/2011
Oakland, 10/26/2013