Obama's Darkest Days (would Hillary have done better?)

Hugh Freaking Dillon

an article from the winnipeg free press today I found quite a good read:

WASHINGTON -- Three years ago, he was the candidate of hope and change.

Today, Barack Obama is the commander-in-chief presiding over an era of economic misery, facing accusations he's failing to do enough to help hard-hit Americans who are growing increasingly frightened about their livelihoods and future prosperity.

Obama, who came to power pledging to set the United States on a new path, has been seemingly blindsided by the depth and endurance of a recession that was just starting when he was elected president in November 2008.

"This is a president who came in wanting to be transformational," Stephen Hess, a one-time aide to former president Richard Nixon, said Tuesday.

"He dreamed very grand dreams, and he staked it largely on health care. That's why he focused on health care when Democrats controlled both chambers of Congress instead of immediate, shovel-ready projects that might have helped buoy the economy. And that's leading to questions about whether he's turned out to be the wrong person for this particular moment."

Far removed from the glory days of his election and inauguration, this is indeed a bleak period for Obama.

The grim-faced president was at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware on Tuesday to pay his respects to the 30 U.S. troops who died Saturday when their Chinook helicopter was shot down in Afghanistan. It was the largest single loss of life for U.S. troops in the unpopular, decade-long conflict Obama's supporters hoped he would swiftly end.

He's been roundly maligned by the left for a deal struck with Republicans to avert a debt-ceiling default that contains only spending cuts and no tax increases on the wealthy.

He's also been assailed for his slow response to the Standard and Poor's credit downgrade last week and a lacklustre, defensive speech on Monday meant to reassure nervous investors who seemingly ignored him and frantically sold off stock anyway.

While the market recovered slightly on Tuesday, some pundits pilloried Obama's speech as the worst moment of his presidency. Others said his remarks proved he'd run out of ideas and was now simply recycling the same sound bites he's trotted out during a spate of media appearances over the past several weeks.

The Daily Beast featured a piece this week asserting that Hillary Clinton would have been a far better president. A Democratic consultant took to the pages of the New York Times to say Obama simply isn't up to being president. A columnist at the Wall Street Journal, meantime, suggested Obama was stupid.

"Stupid is as stupid does, said the great philosopher Forrest Gump. The presidency of Barack Obama is a case study in stupid does," Bret Stephens wrote in the Journal.

But others point out Obama has largely been at the mercy of U.S. Congress, particularly in the debt-ceiling brawl that has left Americans disdainful of Washington.

"When you're in that situation where Congress's assent is essential, those members willing to say 'no' have immense power and leverage," James Lindsay, senior vice-president of the Council on Foreign Relations, said in an interview published Tuesday on the organization's website.

"What we discovered over the last six to eight weeks is that the Republican Party in the House was willing to say 'no' even if it risked default... and in that situation it would have been very difficult for any president to be able to get his way."

Hess, now a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution in Washington, scoffs at any notion that Obama is stupid but acknowledges life is bleak for the president at the moment.

"These are certainly the darkest days of his presidency," Hess said.

"They are dark days for the global economy. But are they the darkest days in the history of the United States? No. And it's foolish to think he can turn around the economic situation of the whole world singlehandedly."

But, in fact, most political observers acknowledge that Obama is by no means headed for certain defeat in November 2012, even if the economy is still struggling. His success or failure will largely depend on the Republican presidential nominee, something GOP hopeful Tim Pawlenty acknowledged in a campaign appearance in Iowa on Tuesday.

"You can stick a fork in Barack Obama," said Pawlenty. "Politically, he's done. The main way we can screw this up is if we choose the wrong Republican."

Hugh Freaking Dillon

so, do you think Hillary would have been better at the job?

Smellyman

I can't speculate too much.

the economy would be in a similar shape regardless. Although it has been posted many times how much better the Dow and jobs have been since he took over. That's a fact no matter how much tea people (I find the new term more amusing becuase of the background story. ) stomp their feet. Companies are having record profits again etc.

The main thing I am disappointed with Obama about is when the dems held all the power he was too nice. He extended the hand and the party of No would not compromise with him. Now that the gop has some power back we can see how tea people refuse to work on anything through compromise and negotiation.

I think Hilary would've seized the oppurtunity while she had it.

Kraven

Smellyman wrote:

I can't speculate too much.

the economy would be in a similar shape regardless. Although it has been posted many times how much better the Dow and jobs have been since he took over. That's a fact no matter how much tea people (I find the new term more amusing becuase of the background story. ) stomp their feet. Companies are having record profits again etc.

The main thing I am disappointed with Obama about is when the dems held all the power he was too nice. He extended the hand and the party of No would not compromise with him. Now that the gop has some power back we can see how tea people refuse to work on anything through compromise and negotiation.

I think Hilary would've seized the oppurtunity while she had it.

Maybe Hillary would have had the balls to play hard ball but what do you think she could have accomplished differently?
It sucks in hindsight that it went down like that, but can you fault him for trying? It's ridiculous that we elect these people to run our country and instead of getting anything done they piss and moan. Instead of bringing viable ideas to the table they just say no. What is he supposed to do if he goes into the situation with good faith and the other side is completely unwilling to work with him?
This country isn't going to get better by having this huge divide between people. The Republicans didn't play ball and in fact took their ball and went home.

"A house divided against itself cannot stand"

Do you think the Tea Party would have spawned in response to Hillary Clinton? I think that might be a harder question to answer. I don't think it would have, but if its really backed by the huge companies people say, then maybe it didn't matter which Democrat got elected to the Presidency.

Smellyman

I have no idea. I didn't think Bush was going to be as horrible as he was. I didn't think obama would've moved so far center and yet still not appease the tea people that it would bring gridlock, so I have no idea whaat Hilary wouldve been like. I have proved to be quite poor at prognosticating.

Ideally she would've been bill clinton 2. I was hoping gwb wouldve been ghb 2, but that didn't happen either......

Obama and GHB are similar in that they inherited the terrible reagan and gwb economies and are unfairly taking the blame.

gimmesometruth27

i don't think it would be any different. she also would have a hostile congress. and everyone knows the only thing congressional republicans hate about as much as obama is a clinton...

i do believe that she would have been a stronger leader and would have told these tea party people the way it is going to be instead of bending over backward for them only to have them demand more and more...

Idris

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i don't think it would be any different. she also would have a hostile congress. and everyone knows the only thing congressional republicans hate about as much as obama is a clinton...

i do believe that she would have been a stronger leader and would have told these tea party people the way it is going to be instead of bending over backward for them only to have them demand more and more...

Yeah that sounds about what it would probably/possibly be like, I would just add that no doubt she would've "told these tea party people the way it is going to be"....Does not necessarily equate 'the right way', just would show her great ability to bull dog her view/agenda which are not based on 'doing the right thing', rather an agenda geared towards the lobby's, corporations and big egos.

Would Hillary of done better? no doubt she would of done "better".

Byrnzie

I think Obama is the best President the U.S has had in the last 50 years.

The fact is, he's been shafted by the Republicans and Congress.

If Obama had been given free reign to accomplish all he set out to do to improve America and the lives of all Americans then I think he would have gone down in history as one of the great World leaders.

Unfortunately, selfish fish-bellies have fucked him 99% of the way, and so he'll be going out - whenever that is - as someone who was never allowed to achieve anything near his potential.

The only people who will benefit from this Royal shafting are the 1% of money-nazis at the top of the wealth ladder. And the fact that so many Americans believe that far-right conservatism is good for their country proves that America isn't just a divided nation, it's a seriously deluded nation.

Rick Perry is just a carbon-copy of Nixon - a soulless opportunist with the morals of a hyena. If this dangerous jackass gets elected to the Presidency then the Bush years will look like a utopia.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

I'm not saying the Dem's act any better when a Rep is in office, but they were willing to sell out their country just to make the current Pres look bad.

For shame.

Godfather.

Ted Nugent would have done better.

Godfather.

mikepegg44

short answer, yes Hillary would be in a better position now.
Long answer: Having Bill as an adviser alone would make for better decisions. Politically much more savvy than Obama. I think she would have been smart enough not to waste time on healthcare immediately because they had a super majority and focused on the economy only. May not have lost the house in the mid-terms... There are plenty of pundits that don't like Bill or Hillary, but she seems much tougher to me than Obama and would have fought a lot harder in a much more politically effective way.

But that is just my opinion.

Parachute

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

I'm not saying the Dem's act any better when a Rep is in office, but they were willing to sell out their country just to make the current Pres look bad.

For shame.

The current Prez is doing a bang up job of looking like an incompetent fool on his own.

And so... YES, Hillary would have been better.

Parachute

Godfather. wrote:

Ted Nugent would have done better.

Godfather.

Yes!

fife

Byrnzie wrote:

I think Obama is the best President the U.S has had in the last 50 years.

The fact is, he's been shafted by the Republicans and Congress.

If Obama had been given free reign to accomplish all he set out to do to improve America and the lives of all Americans then I think he would have gone down in history as one of the great World leaders.

Unfortunately, selfish fish-bellies have fucked him 99% of the way, and so he'll be going out - whenever that is - as someone who was never allowed to achieve anything near his potential.

The only people who will benefit from this Royal shafting are the 1% of money-nazis at the top of the wealth ladder. And the fact that so many Americans believe that far-right conservatism is good for their country proves that America isn't just a divided nation, it's a seriously deluded nation.

Rick Perry is just a carbon-copy of Nixon - a soulless opportunist with the morals of a hyena. If this dangerous jackass gets elected to the Presidency then the Bush years will look like a utopia.

I don't see how you can say he has been the best president in the last 50 years as he has not really done anything yet. you can put on the blame on the rep. as Obama did have both control over the house and senate for when he first started. i think he made a calculated risk with the health care bill right off the bat and this in my opinion was the wrong move politically.

now going back to Hilary, she was actually the person i wanted as president. would she have made things better? i think so. Obama is a very smart man but i think he was naive to believe that the rep. would work with him. i don't think Hillary would have done that.

slightofjeff

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i don't think it would be any different. she also would have a hostile congress.

Would she? I don't know. She, like Obama, would have had Democratic supermajorities in both houses of Congress for the first two years of her term, a prime environment to get accomplished whatever it is he wanted to get accomplished.

Given those supermajorities, Obama chose to push ObamaCare, a wildly unpopular policy choice that led to the rise of the Tea Parties in the 2010 midterms. If Obama (or, hypothetically, Hillary) doesn't overextend himself there, it's possible the Democrats still control the House.

slightofjeff

Byrnzie wrote:

I think Obama is the best President the U.S has had in the last 50 years.

The fact is, he's been shafted by the Republicans and Congress.

If Obama had been given free reign to accomplish all he set out to do to improve America and the lives of all Americans then I think he would have gone down in history as one of the great World leaders.

Again, hasn't he had a Democratic supermajority in both houses for more of his term than not? He had free reign for two years. He pushed Obamacare. America backlashed. Only then did Republicans re-take the House.

I think the best you can say for Obama is that his heart and his head were in a positive place ... but he's in over his head as president. He doesn't know how to play the game, or doesn't want to. In retrospect, maybe we shouldn't be surprised. The guy had barely run a Girl Scout cookie drive before we elected him President of the United States. He's (probably) a good man. So far, he's been a dreadful leader.

I don't know if Hillary would have been better or worse, but because she's a Clinton, I think she would have knee-capped some bitches in order to get her way. So shit would have gotten done, for good or for ill.

CH156378

Godfather. wrote:

Ted Nugent would have done better.

Godfather.

:roll:

Godfather.

CH156378 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Ted Nugent would have done better.

Godfather.

:roll:

:shock: ........what ? the Nuge is a great American with American values and understanding.

Godfather.

CH156378

Godfather. wrote:

CH156378 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Ted Nugent would have done better.

Godfather.

:roll:

:shock: ........what ? the Nuge is a great American with American values and understanding.

Godfather.

:roll:

gimmesometruth27

the nuge is about as big of a war dodging pussy chickenhawk as dick cheney.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Godfather. wrote:

CH156378 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Ted Nugent would have done better.

Godfather.

:roll:

:shock: ........what ? the Nuge is a great American with American values and understanding.

Godfather.

dear god GF, you can't be serious. what would he have done? covered the white house in animal pelts, tabled legislation for newborns to bear arms, and sent nukes to every non-white country in the world.