Obama's Darkest Days (would Hillary have done better?)
Hugh Freaking Dillon
Posts: 14,010
an article from the winnipeg free press today I found quite a good read:
WASHINGTON -- Three years ago, he was the candidate of hope and change.
Today, Barack Obama is the commander-in-chief presiding over an era of economic misery, facing accusations he's failing to do enough to help hard-hit Americans who are growing increasingly frightened about their livelihoods and future prosperity.
Obama, who came to power pledging to set the United States on a new path, has been seemingly blindsided by the depth and endurance of a recession that was just starting when he was elected president in November 2008.
"This is a president who came in wanting to be transformational," Stephen Hess, a one-time aide to former president Richard Nixon, said Tuesday.
"He dreamed very grand dreams, and he staked it largely on health care. That's why he focused on health care when Democrats controlled both chambers of Congress instead of immediate, shovel-ready projects that might have helped buoy the economy. And that's leading to questions about whether he's turned out to be the wrong person for this particular moment."
Far removed from the glory days of his election and inauguration, this is indeed a bleak period for Obama.
The grim-faced president was at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware on Tuesday to pay his respects to the 30 U.S. troops who died Saturday when their Chinook helicopter was shot down in Afghanistan. It was the largest single loss of life for U.S. troops in the unpopular, decade-long conflict Obama's supporters hoped he would swiftly end.
He's been roundly maligned by the left for a deal struck with Republicans to avert a debt-ceiling default that contains only spending cuts and no tax increases on the wealthy.
He's also been assailed for his slow response to the Standard and Poor's credit downgrade last week and a lacklustre, defensive speech on Monday meant to reassure nervous investors who seemingly ignored him and frantically sold off stock anyway.
While the market recovered slightly on Tuesday, some pundits pilloried Obama's speech as the worst moment of his presidency. Others said his remarks proved he'd run out of ideas and was now simply recycling the same sound bites he's trotted out during a spate of media appearances over the past several weeks.
The Daily Beast featured a piece this week asserting that Hillary Clinton would have been a far better president. A Democratic consultant took to the pages of the New York Times to say Obama simply isn't up to being president. A columnist at the Wall Street Journal, meantime, suggested Obama was stupid.
"Stupid is as stupid does, said the great philosopher Forrest Gump. The presidency of Barack Obama is a case study in stupid does," Bret Stephens wrote in the Journal.
But others point out Obama has largely been at the mercy of U.S. Congress, particularly in the debt-ceiling brawl that has left Americans disdainful of Washington.
"When you're in that situation where Congress's assent is essential, those members willing to say 'no' have immense power and leverage," James Lindsay, senior vice-president of the Council on Foreign Relations, said in an interview published Tuesday on the organization's website.
"What we discovered over the last six to eight weeks is that the Republican Party in the House was willing to say 'no' even if it risked default... and in that situation it would have been very difficult for any president to be able to get his way."
Hess, now a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution in Washington, scoffs at any notion that Obama is stupid but acknowledges life is bleak for the president at the moment.
"These are certainly the darkest days of his presidency," Hess said.
"They are dark days for the global economy. But are they the darkest days in the history of the United States? No. And it's foolish to think he can turn around the economic situation of the whole world singlehandedly."
But, in fact, most political observers acknowledge that Obama is by no means headed for certain defeat in November 2012, even if the economy is still struggling. His success or failure will largely depend on the Republican presidential nominee, something GOP hopeful Tim Pawlenty acknowledged in a campaign appearance in Iowa on Tuesday.
"You can stick a fork in Barack Obama," said Pawlenty. "Politically, he's done. The main way we can screw this up is if we choose the wrong Republican."
WASHINGTON -- Three years ago, he was the candidate of hope and change.
Today, Barack Obama is the commander-in-chief presiding over an era of economic misery, facing accusations he's failing to do enough to help hard-hit Americans who are growing increasingly frightened about their livelihoods and future prosperity.
Obama, who came to power pledging to set the United States on a new path, has been seemingly blindsided by the depth and endurance of a recession that was just starting when he was elected president in November 2008.
"This is a president who came in wanting to be transformational," Stephen Hess, a one-time aide to former president Richard Nixon, said Tuesday.
"He dreamed very grand dreams, and he staked it largely on health care. That's why he focused on health care when Democrats controlled both chambers of Congress instead of immediate, shovel-ready projects that might have helped buoy the economy. And that's leading to questions about whether he's turned out to be the wrong person for this particular moment."
Far removed from the glory days of his election and inauguration, this is indeed a bleak period for Obama.
The grim-faced president was at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware on Tuesday to pay his respects to the 30 U.S. troops who died Saturday when their Chinook helicopter was shot down in Afghanistan. It was the largest single loss of life for U.S. troops in the unpopular, decade-long conflict Obama's supporters hoped he would swiftly end.
He's been roundly maligned by the left for a deal struck with Republicans to avert a debt-ceiling default that contains only spending cuts and no tax increases on the wealthy.
He's also been assailed for his slow response to the Standard and Poor's credit downgrade last week and a lacklustre, defensive speech on Monday meant to reassure nervous investors who seemingly ignored him and frantically sold off stock anyway.
While the market recovered slightly on Tuesday, some pundits pilloried Obama's speech as the worst moment of his presidency. Others said his remarks proved he'd run out of ideas and was now simply recycling the same sound bites he's trotted out during a spate of media appearances over the past several weeks.
The Daily Beast featured a piece this week asserting that Hillary Clinton would have been a far better president. A Democratic consultant took to the pages of the New York Times to say Obama simply isn't up to being president. A columnist at the Wall Street Journal, meantime, suggested Obama was stupid.
"Stupid is as stupid does, said the great philosopher Forrest Gump. The presidency of Barack Obama is a case study in stupid does," Bret Stephens wrote in the Journal.
But others point out Obama has largely been at the mercy of U.S. Congress, particularly in the debt-ceiling brawl that has left Americans disdainful of Washington.
"When you're in that situation where Congress's assent is essential, those members willing to say 'no' have immense power and leverage," James Lindsay, senior vice-president of the Council on Foreign Relations, said in an interview published Tuesday on the organization's website.
"What we discovered over the last six to eight weeks is that the Republican Party in the House was willing to say 'no' even if it risked default... and in that situation it would have been very difficult for any president to be able to get his way."
Hess, now a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution in Washington, scoffs at any notion that Obama is stupid but acknowledges life is bleak for the president at the moment.
"These are certainly the darkest days of his presidency," Hess said.
"They are dark days for the global economy. But are they the darkest days in the history of the United States? No. And it's foolish to think he can turn around the economic situation of the whole world singlehandedly."
But, in fact, most political observers acknowledge that Obama is by no means headed for certain defeat in November 2012, even if the economy is still struggling. His success or failure will largely depend on the Republican presidential nominee, something GOP hopeful Tim Pawlenty acknowledged in a campaign appearance in Iowa on Tuesday.
"You can stick a fork in Barack Obama," said Pawlenty. "Politically, he's done. The main way we can screw this up is if we choose the wrong Republican."
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
the economy would be in a similar shape regardless. Although it has been posted many times how much better the Dow and jobs have been since he took over. That's a fact no matter how much tea people (I find the new term more amusing becuase of the background story.
The main thing I am disappointed with Obama about is when the dems held all the power he was too nice. He extended the hand and the party of No would not compromise with him. Now that the gop has some power back we can see how tea people refuse to work on anything through compromise and negotiation.
I think Hilary would've seized the oppurtunity while she had it.
Maybe Hillary would have had the balls to play hard ball but what do you think she could have accomplished differently?
It sucks in hindsight that it went down like that, but can you fault him for trying? It's ridiculous that we elect these people to run our country and instead of getting anything done they piss and moan. Instead of bringing viable ideas to the table they just say no. What is he supposed to do if he goes into the situation with good faith and the other side is completely unwilling to work with him?
This country isn't going to get better by having this huge divide between people. The Republicans didn't play ball and in fact took their ball and went home.
"A house divided against itself cannot stand"
Do you think the Tea Party would have spawned in response to Hillary Clinton? I think that might be a harder question to answer. I don't think it would have, but if its really backed by the huge companies people say, then maybe it didn't matter which Democrat got elected to the Presidency.
Ideally she would've been bill clinton 2. I was hoping gwb wouldve been ghb 2, but that didn't happen either......
Obama and GHB are similar in that they inherited the terrible reagan and gwb economies and are unfairly taking the blame.
i do believe that she would have been a stronger leader and would have told these tea party people the way it is going to be instead of bending over backward for them only to have them demand more and more...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Yeah that sounds about what it would probably/possibly be like, I would just add that no doubt she would've "told these tea party people the way it is going to be"....Does not necessarily equate 'the right way', just would show her great ability to bull dog her view/agenda which are not based on 'doing the right thing', rather an agenda geared towards the lobby's, corporations and big egos.
Would Hillary of done better? no doubt she would of done "better".
The fact is, he's been shafted by the Republicans and Congress.
If Obama had been given free reign to accomplish all he set out to do to improve America and the lives of all Americans then I think he would have gone down in history as one of the great World leaders.
Unfortunately, selfish fish-bellies have fucked him 99% of the way, and so he'll be going out - whenever that is - as someone who was never allowed to achieve anything near his potential.
The only people who will benefit from this Royal shafting are the 1% of money-nazis at the top of the wealth ladder. And the fact that so many Americans believe that far-right conservatism is good for their country proves that America isn't just a divided nation, it's a seriously deluded nation.
Rick Perry is just a carbon-copy of Nixon - a soulless opportunist with the morals of a hyena. If this dangerous jackass gets elected to the Presidency then the Bush years will look like a utopia.
For shame.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Godfather.
Long answer: Having Bill as an adviser alone would make for better decisions. Politically much more savvy than Obama. I think she would have been smart enough not to waste time on healthcare immediately because they had a super majority and focused on the economy only. May not have lost the house in the mid-terms... There are plenty of pundits that don't like Bill or Hillary, but she seems much tougher to me than Obama and would have fought a lot harder in a much more politically effective way.
But that is just my opinion.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
The current Prez is doing a bang up job of looking like an incompetent fool on his own.
And so... YES, Hillary would have been better.
Yes!
I don't see how you can say he has been the best president in the last 50 years as he has not really done anything yet. you can put on the blame on the rep. as Obama did have both control over the house and senate for when he first started. i think he made a calculated risk with the health care bill right off the bat and this in my opinion was the wrong move politically.
now going back to Hilary, she was actually the person i wanted as president. would she have made things better? i think so. Obama is a very smart man but i think he was naive to believe that the rep. would work with him. i don't think Hillary would have done that.
Would she? I don't know. She, like Obama, would have had Democratic supermajorities in both houses of Congress for the first two years of her term, a prime environment to get accomplished whatever it is he wanted to get accomplished.
Given those supermajorities, Obama chose to push ObamaCare, a wildly unpopular policy choice that led to the rise of the Tea Parties in the 2010 midterms. If Obama (or, hypothetically, Hillary) doesn't overextend himself there, it's possible the Democrats still control the House.
for the least they could possibly do
Again, hasn't he had a Democratic supermajority in both houses for more of his term than not? He had free reign for two years. He pushed Obamacare. America backlashed. Only then did Republicans re-take the House.
I think the best you can say for Obama is that his heart and his head were in a positive place ... but he's in over his head as president. He doesn't know how to play the game, or doesn't want to. In retrospect, maybe we shouldn't be surprised. The guy had barely run a Girl Scout cookie drive before we elected him President of the United States. He's (probably) a good man. So far, he's been a dreadful leader.
I don't know if Hillary would have been better or worse, but because she's a Clinton, I think she would have knee-capped some bitches in order to get her way. So shit would have gotten done, for good or for ill.
for the least they could possibly do
:shock: ........what ? the Nuge is a great American with American values and understanding.
Godfather.
:roll:
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
dear god GF, you can't be serious. what would he have done? covered the white house in animal pelts, tabled legislation for newborns to bear arms, and sent nukes to every non-white country in the world.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Yep. The Republican's main goal is to destroy Obama's presidency and I bet they'd have that same hate towards Hillary. Because she's not only a Clinton, but a woman.
BUT, because I believe that a single person does not truly rule this country, (it's a system rule, not a president rule,) there's no doubt we'd be in the same boat we are today, regardless what Dem "won" the presidential seat. There just happens to be more hatred from Republicans because they hate a Dem minority ruling the seat.
I was just joking about The Nuge being president but as far as the wild man politic's....he ROCK'S !!!!!
he's not one of those "limp wristed choose your words carefully because we don't want to hurt someones feelings"
kind of guy....we got enough of those pussy's around as it is.
Godfather.
these politics rock!!!!!!! classy!! your support of ted nugent says alot about you.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=757_1187963465&p=1
:yawn: .......wait was that a compliment ? ....me and the Nuge ! YEAAAHHHHH !!!! thanks buddy !
thank you for your kindness it's nice to know that there are other Americans that have the heart to stand up for their freedoms and what they know is right. :thumbup: have a nice day !
Godfather.
spirit of the buffalo !
Godfather.
Proof: Ted Nugent Is A Draft Dodger. Will Hannity Keep Defending Him?Reported by Ellen - August 26, 2007 - Comments (94)
http://www.newshounds.us/2007/08/26/pro ... ng_him.php
Since we've been discussing Ted Nugent lately, this seemed a good time to bring up Nugent's draft dodging. It's well known that Nugent claims to have gone to great lengths to flunk his Draft Board physical. What's not so well-known is that he got a student deferment at the same time he was touring with his rock band, putting in an average of 300 shows a year. How was he going to school and touring that much at the same time?
One of our readers sent me a copy of an extract of Nugent’s Selective Service records, obtained via a FOIA request (copy below). As you can see, Nugent received student deferments in 1967 (1-S) and 1968 (2-S). But according to the Internet Movie Data Base website, Nugent has been “performing professionally since 1958, non-stop yearly touring since 1967, averaging more than 300 shows per year '67-73.” Hmm, that would include the two years he was supposedly too wrapped up in his studies to be serving his country.
But that hasn’t stopped Nugent from insisting that if he HAD served, he would have been one big mofo soldier. As the Rutland Herald reported, Here's what Nugent said he would have done if he went to Vietnam:
"… if I would have gone over there, I'd have been killed, or I'd have killed, or I'd kill all the hippies in the foxholes … I would have killed everybody," he told the Detroit Free Press in an interview published July 15, 1990."
The Herald also noted that Nugent’s efforts to avoid the draft make President Bush look like a war hero.
(Nugent claims) that 30 days before his Draft Board Physical, he stopped all forms of personal hygiene. The last 10 days he ingested nothing but junk food and Pepsi, and a week before his physical, he stopped using the bathroom altogether, virtually living inside his pants caked with excrement and urine. That spectacle won Nugent a deferment.
Sean Hannity went to ridiculous lengths Friday night (8/24/07) to defend Nugent's threatening rants against Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. FOX & Friends whitewashed Nugent's comments the next day. Apparently, this "patriot" can do no wrong on the "We like America" network.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Godfather.