Can I ask a question? Do you really think 30 years fits "genocide participants and the like"? Seems pretty ridiculous that anyone anywhere would be thinking anything less than Life without parole. But like you said, there is "containment", so maybe it's just legal bable.
The 30 years thing is just a number. There is zero possibility that the guy will ever leave confinement. Zero. And rightly so. His death might solve his case and stop his views being publicised for years to come. But you can't pick and choose with the death penalty, you either have it or you don't, and I think Europe looks at the number of mistakes made in the US and other countries and just doesn't fancy having those on the conscience.
Can I ask a question? Do you really think 30 years fits "genocide participants and the like"? Seems pretty ridiculous that anyone anywhere would be thinking anything less than Life without parole. But like you said, there is "containment", so maybe it's just legal bable.
The 30 years thing is just a number. There is zero possibility that the guy will ever leave confinement. Zero. And rightly so. His death might solve his case and stop his views being publicised for years to come. But you can't pick and choose with the death penalty, you either have it or you don't, and I think Europe looks at the number of mistakes made in the US and other countries and just doesn't fancy having those on the conscience.
I didn't even mention the death penalty.
Someone else did with the Mark Chapman thing. I wasn't responding to people individually. Sorry.
Someone else did with the Mark Chapman thing. I wasn't responding to people individually. Sorry.
That was I.
And to be clear, my motivations are not driven by vengeance. It's a pragmatic view. Be it a human who randomly shoots people or a pit bull that escapes its yard and attacks several pedestrians, I don't have any issues with the entity being disposed of once it has proved itself untrustworthy to operate in the current society that we have defined.
Nonetheless, this is Norway's issue to deal with. They don't have a death penalty so it's a moot point to argue for or against it. Time will tell.
Also, my heartfelt wishes to all of those affected by this tragedy.
Nonetheless, this is Norway's issue to deal with. They don't have a death penalty so it's a moot point to argue for or against it. Time will tell.
Wholely agreed, I live in Europe, so we don't have it and that is the end of my opinion. I won't criticise the US for their system, they clearly have their own debate on the issue and I am not a voting US citizen, so it is not for me to say if it is right or wrong. We just don't have it here, so the guy won't get it.
Can I ask a question? Do you really think 30 years fits "genocide participants and the like"? Seems pretty ridiculous that anyone anywhere would be thinking anything less than Life without parole. But like you said, there is "containment", so maybe it's just legal bable.
Legal babble. Serious enough, and it's containment anyway. Which is life or as long as the court pleases.
Which I find much preferable to the death penalty and the whole "eye for an eye" approach to justice. We're gonna show that we're better than him, and that he can't scare us into making big changes on this incident. Anyway, death is easy compared to a lifetime of nothing going on. His death wouldn't change anything.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
And so far we are doing the rightest thing of all. All the attention is on the grief and sympathy with the victims, spearheaded by our PM and the royals. Noone focus on revenge at this point. Although anything less than max and containment would bring resentment. We are confident that that will be taken care of, and turn our energies on eachother instead.
This is a local election year in Norway, and the campaigning was scheduled to start in full next week. All that is now cancelled or postponed until the middle of august instead. All political parties have agreed on this and noone has the heart for lesser things now anyway. I am curious how this incident will influence that election, but that's certainly not for now.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Legal babble. Serious enough, and it's containment anyway. Which is life or as long as the court pleases.
Which I find much preferable to the death penalty and the whole "eye for an eye" approach to justice. We're gonna show that we're better than him, and that he can't scare us into making big changes on this incident. Anyway, death is easy compared to a lifetime of nothing going on. His death wouldn't change anything.
Peace
Dan
This makes sense.
Day after day of no freedom/nothing going on sounds like real justice vs. a quick and painless "you're outta here"
One may argue the comparative "cost" to society (the cost of containing & sustaining a person for a lifetime)...but it seems like this particular point has already been worked out in comparative "benefits" of peace of mind/humanity of a nation, without having to wraggle each heinous criminal act with the "death or not" possibilities.
I like that attention is being placed where it should be ....on the victims & not on the bad guy.
All Americans join the world community in mourning the horrific loss of life from the Norway terrorist attacks. We can only imagine the void left in the lives of the victims' families. The staggering toll of young lives taken by a gunman at the Utoya youth camp reminds us all, once again, that guns are the enablers of mass killers.
For those who are quick to argue that "guns don't kill people, people kill people," it is instructive that the Norway killer took many more lives with his guns than with his explosives. Violent individuals intent on inflicting multiple fatalities don't choose knives or baseball bats. With few exceptions, they choose guns.
There are some in the American "gun rights" community who will no doubt use this shooting to assert that Norway's strong gun laws don't work, or to support the National Rifle Association's campaign to make it easier for Americans to carry loaded guns on the streets, and into restaurants, coffee houses, bars, college campuses and other public places. Does this mass shooting in Norway suggest that Western Europe's restrictive gun regulations are futile, while America's practically non-existent gun regulations make us safer?
Such a conclusion approaches absurdity, when we consider some well-established facts. Press reports indicate that as many as 70 young lives may have been taken in the Norwegian youth camp massacre. Whereas that number of shooting deaths in a day is treated as a historic event in Norway, it is less than the death toll from guns every day in America -- which is now in excess of 80. Whereas a mass shooting in Norway is an extraordinary tragedy, described by that nation's prime minister as a "national disaster," it is a regular occurrence in America. Within 48 hours of the Norway shooting, there were at least four mass shootings in our country: six dead at a skating rink in Texas, nine wounded during a fight between teenagers at a birthday party in Central Florida, a 15-year-old killed and eight wounded at an outdoor party near Stockton, California, and seven wounded in a casino shooting near Seattle.
As awful as the Norwegian youth camp shooting was, the average resident of that nation would have difficulty imagining life in a society with gun violence even close to what we experience in America. In 2005, for example, there were 12,352 gun homicides in the U.S. In that same year, Norway had five. The homicide rate in the U.S. is over eight times what it is in Norway because the U.S. rate of homicides with guns is 38 times higher than Norway's.
Norway has a restrictive gun licensing system, with a requirement that a prospective gun owner provide a written statement justifying why he or she wants one and stiff restrictions on how guns are stored. The fact that one gunman, driven by violent fanaticism, was able to get a gun to commit mass murder no more justifies weakening Norway's gun laws than it justifies weakening its law against murder itself. No law is a guarantee against the evil it was passed to prevent. We can say with certainty that Norway, with its strong gun laws, is a far safer place than the U.S., with its weak gun laws and its permissiveness toward carrying guns in public.
It is reasonably certain that the Norway youth camp shootings will lead to determined efforts to further strengthen that nation's gun laws. In contrast, America has suffered through Columbine, Virginia Tech, Fort Hood, Tucson and too many other similar events with little action taken to prevent more tragedies of this kind.
The youth camp shooting is neither a reason to condemn Norway's gun laws, nor to praise our own. Instead, it confirms, once more, that the well-known bumper sticker could not be more wrong. Actually, guns do kill people.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
i read that the guy was a christian conservative that was associated with a right wing political group..
when is the last time in recent memory a left wing atheist grabbed a gun and wasted random people?
And then your cut paste article goes on to talk about 80 people getting gunned down in the us every day.
Bet none of those murderers are atheist left wingers. :idea:
i read that the guy was a christian conservative that was associated with a right wing political group..
when is the last time in recent memory a left wing atheist grabbed a gun and wasted random people?
And then your cut paste article goes on to talk about 80 people getting gunned down in the us every day.
Bet none of those murderers are atheist left wingers. :idea:
Just don't get it
And, you can't have my guns.
can you answer the question i had asked that you just cut pasted here?
obviously not, it is not your m.o.
the article states that 80 people across this country are killed every day by gunshot. so we have the equivalent of what just happened in norway happening here every day. just not all in one place.
there might be an atheist left winger in there somewhere, but how many of them have a 1500 page manifesto based on their political and religious beliefs? i'll bet you can't name one.
and please don't blame the "librul media" for not reporting on it...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Ever think if some of the victims had a piece this would not have gone so far?
Same goes with what happened by the left wing nut job in Arizona who shot up the place, where were the card carrying members there? That blows my mind nobody was carrying a firearm then...
Ever think if some of the victims had a piece this would not have gone so far?
Same goes with what happened by the left wing nut job in Arizona who shot up the place, where were the card carrying members there? That blows my mind nobody was carrying a firearm then...
the person that shot giffords was not a left wing radical. he was a lunatic who shot a democrat that he viewed as too liberal. remember, her district was one of those where the marksman target was placed over it on sarah palin's map...
and as far as the packing heat hero stopping the shooting goes, it rarely happens. i want to see some numbers on that one..
Post edited by gimmesometruth27 on
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
No way in he'll are 28,000 people murdered with a gun in the USA annually. Most blast themselves.
Your neat editorial is shit. Pure shit.
And you can't have my guns.
Please understand I mean no disrespect to the victims or people of Norway for this tragedy.
you have said i can't have your guns in 2 posts now. i am not asking for them, ok?
28,000/365= 76.71. so assuming the 28,000 number is accurate that breaks down to 77 deaths per day by gun. when divided by the number of states, 50, it breaks down to 1.53 gunshot murders per state per day. so it is quite possible for that number to be correct. hell, just in my city and metro area (50 mile radius) i hear about several shootings per day, most with multiple people shot, and at least 2-3 murders per week. texas had 6 people murdered in one roller rink the other day, so it is quite possible these numbers are accurate.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
you have said i can't have your guns in 2 posts now. i am not asking for them, ok?
28,000/365= 76.71. so assuming the 28,000 number is accurate that breaks down to 77 deaths per day by gun. when divided by the number of states, 50, it breaks down to 1.53 gunshot murders per state per day. so it is quite possible for that number to be correct. hell, just in my city and metro area (50 mile radius) i hear about several shootings per day, most with multiple people shot, and at least 2-3 murders per week. texas had 6 people murdered in one roller rink the other day, so it is quite possible these numbers are accurate.
Those Goddamn pesky facts!
It's far easier just to throw our opinions around instead and then get abusive when those pesky facts rear their ugly heads.
here ya go usamamasan.
from today's news. this happened yesterday in one city in colorado. 4 dead in one state in one day. so the numbers in my prior post are very conceivable at this point...
4 dead, 2 wounded in Colo. Springs shootings
Police say incidents are unrelated; one suspect remains at large
Police were racing for clues early Thursday after three separate shootings in Colorado Springs left at least four dead, two wounded and at least one suspect on the lam, local media reported.
Police said on Twitter late Wednesday night that they had gone to "Priority One" status and were taking only priority calls, the Denver Post reported.
In the first incident, one person was killed and one wounded at an AutoZone store in the eastern part of the city, police told The Colorado Springs Gazette.
The suspect in that shooting remains at large after briefly holding a woman hostage, The Gazette reported.
"I'm really shook up," a woman, who declined to be identified, told the Gazette. She told the newspaper that her daughter was in the store at the time of the incident, but was OK.
"I said 'Oh God, don’t let her be in there,'" the mother told the Gazette.
'I thought I was in Iraq again'
Later Wednesday night, three men were killed in central Colorado Springs, police told the Gazette.
Two men were found dead at the scene and the third died at a local hospital, reports said.
Police had no suspects, motives or getaway vehicle information in that shooting.
Local residents told journalists they heard five quick pops Wednesday night.
"I thought I was in Iraq again," George Barnes, who said he was an Army veteran who served in the war in 2005-06, told the Gazette.
In a third incident, police officers shot an armed suspect in an apartment complex, authorities said.
Authorities said the man initially fled from police, but it did not appear that he had fired on officers.
The wounded man was hospitalized but his condition was not immediately clear.
'Pretty scary'
Billy Holder, a neighbor of the shooting victim, told KRDO-TV that the man was a college student who lived with his girlfriend and young child.
Holder said that there had been a domestic dispute and the man was burning his girlfriend's belongings outside the apartment before officers arrived at the scene.
Holder told the TV station that he heard about eight gunshots after police arrived, and narrowly escaped getting hit himself.
"One of the stray bullets went through our wall and hit our glass door," Holder told KRDO. "It missed me by three to four feet. It was pretty scary."
The shooting also upset Holder's pregnant fiancee.
"She ducked and grabbed the dog and headed toward the bedroom," he told KRDO. "She was crying and everything."
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
i read that the guy was a christian conservative that was associated with a right wing political group..
when is the last time in recent memory a left wing atheist grabbed a gun and wasted random people?
And then your cut paste article goes on to talk about 80 people getting gunned down in the us every day.
Bet none of those murderers are atheist left wingers. :idea:
Just don't get it
And, you can't have my guns.
can you answer the question i had asked that you just cut pasted here?
obviously not, it is not your m.o.
the article states that 80 people across this country are killed every day by gunshot. so we have the equivalent of what just happened in norway happening here every day. just not all in one place.
there might be an atheist left winger in there somewhere, but how many of them have a 1500 page manifesto based on their political and religious beliefs? i'll bet you can't name one.
and please don't blame the "librul media" for not reporting on it...
Look. I agree with you about gun control. But trying to compare a country that had a population of 296 million in 2005 to one that has a population of 4.6 million in 2005 is fairly absurd. No doubt the US per capita numbers are not good, but there is no way you can compare.
So, no matter what Norway does and works (or doesn't) for them, the US needs to find it's own solution to this issue. It is far more complex here.
Look. I agree with you about gun control. But trying to compare a country that had a population of 296 million in 2005 to one that has a population of 4.6 million in 2005 is fairly absurd. No doubt the US per capita numbers are not good, but there is no way you can compare.
So, no matter what Norway does and works (or doesn't) for them, the US needs to find it's own solution to this issue. It is far more complex here.
i'll agree ... gun control isn't the answer in the US ... it's really societal and cultural ...
I'm not really sure I get the angle of that article you posted previously...unless it is just suppose to be stupid.
Trying to compare 70 deaths in 1 instance to random killing across a over 300 million population is just that, stupid.
What this situation shows is just how difficult it is to defend/protect against 1 crazy person who happens to get an automatic weapon (despite any strict gun laws). What we need to do in the US is to figure out how to eliminate all the smaller shootings that occur because of the convenience of guns when arguments happen. Too very different things imo.
Ever think if some of the victims had a piece this would not have gone so far?
you know, after re-reading this post, this sounds like a job for Captain Hindsight, A former news reporter that has gained the power of extraordinary hindsight through a freak accident involving a retroactive spider, and his sidekicks, Shoulda, Woulda, and Coulda...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Look. I agree with you about gun control. But trying to compare a country that had a population of 296 million in 2005 to one that has a population of 4.6 million in 2005 is fairly absurd. No doubt the US per capita numbers are not good, but there is no way you can compare.
So, no matter what Norway does and works (or doesn't) for them, the US needs to find it's own solution to this issue. It is far more complex here.
the numbers do generalize. you have to take the percentages of gun deaths per population. and i am sure that the united states would have a higher gun murder rate per capita. or let's make it easier. we have more gun murders per 100,000.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
i need to mention,that i admire the people of Norway,how proud are and how this make them become one..
thats how Democracy must be..respect...
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
What this situation shows is just how difficult it is to defend/protect against 1 crazy person who happens to get an automatic weapon (despite any strict gun laws). What we need to do in the US is to figure out how to eliminate all the smaller shootings that occur because of the convenience of guns when arguments happen. Too very different things imo.
You can attempt to eliminate - or at least reduce - the number of small shootings in the U.S, along with the big shootings by unhinged individuals - by implementing some form of gun control.
I.e, if their was no 'convenience of guns' in the first place then America wouldn't have such a big problem with gun-related homicides compared with, say, Canada.
Look. I agree with you about gun control. But trying to compare a country that had a population of 296 million in 2005 to one that has a population of 4.6 million in 2005 is fairly absurd. No doubt the US per capita numbers are not good, but there is no way you can compare.
So, no matter what Norway does and works (or doesn't) for them, the US needs to find it's own solution to this issue. It is far more complex here.
the numbers do generalize. you have to take the percentages of gun deaths per population. and i am sure that the united states would have a higher gun murder rate per capita. or let's make it easier. we have more gun murders per 100,000.
Right, as I said, the US per capita numbers are not good.
But my other point was the difference between a 300 million and a 5 million population country is not just linear. That big an increase in humans leads to a ridiculous amount of issues that arise. So what works for Norway might not work directly for the US, and vice versa. So, it's not as simple as comparing apples to apples.
One thing I've learned in the midwest, there are a lot of very nice, safety oriented people with a lot of guns...and they want to keep them. And, they are actually used for hunting, which whether or not you agree with it, is very different then the gun use we are talking about here. And most of that hunting is done not just for sports (let's not kid ourselves, there is plenty of food at the grocery store, so people that still hunt do so for the enjoyment of the activity, not to feed their families for the most part) but at least they are using the animal for food.
And not too mention, these are the areas with the LEAST amount of killings from guns per capita. So, I can see how it's tough for them to want to give up their hobby that they do safely for the greater good of the country as a whole...or at least regulate it more closely which results in them paying $ when they aren't causing the problem.
What this situation shows is just how difficult it is to defend/protect against 1 crazy person who happens to get an automatic weapon (despite any strict gun laws). What we need to do in the US is to figure out how to eliminate all the smaller shootings that occur because of the convenience of guns when arguments happen. Too very different things imo.
You can attempt to eliminate - or at least reduce - the number of small shootings in the U.S, along with the big shootings by unhinged individuals - by implementing some form of gun control.
I.e, if their was no 'convenience of guns' in the first place then America wouldn't have such a big problem with gun-related homicides compared with, say, Canada.
I'm not really sure I get the angle of that article you posted previously...unless it is just suppose to be stupid.
Trying to compare 70 deaths in 1 instance to random killing across a over 300 million population is just that, stupid.
What this situation shows is just how difficult it is to defend/protect against 1 crazy person who happens to get an automatic weapon (despite any strict gun laws). What we need to do in the US is to figure out how to eliminate all the smaller shootings that occur because of the convenience of guns when arguments happen. Too very different things imo.
how is it difficult to understand that the united states as a country has that same number of gun deaths EVERY DAY? they are so common here that it is impossible for the news to report them all.
what happened in Norway was a terrible, terrible thing, and i am in no way discounting that, but the us has a much bigger problem with gun violence. they are way too accessable. i think it is our culture. it is ok to show gratuitous violence on network tv and in video games, but if you see a boob on the super bowl halftime show the entire country is outraged and calling on the fcc to fine people.. our standards for what is permissable is completely fucked in this country. i think showing a little more nudity on tv and a little less violence might possibly be a good thing. i believe that Norway is going to learn from this tragedy and will become a better country for having experienced this and been brought together by it. similar to how we came together after 9/11. but i'll tell ya what, i guarantee there was no significant lull in gun murders here after 9/11 while all of us were shocked and united.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Comments
I didn't even mention the death penalty.
Someone else did with the Mark Chapman thing. I wasn't responding to people individually. Sorry.
And to be clear, my motivations are not driven by vengeance. It's a pragmatic view. Be it a human who randomly shoots people or a pit bull that escapes its yard and attacks several pedestrians, I don't have any issues with the entity being disposed of once it has proved itself untrustworthy to operate in the current society that we have defined.
Nonetheless, this is Norway's issue to deal with. They don't have a death penalty so it's a moot point to argue for or against it. Time will tell.
Also, my heartfelt wishes to all of those affected by this tragedy.
Wholely agreed, I live in Europe, so we don't have it and that is the end of my opinion. I won't criticise the US for their system, they clearly have their own debate on the issue and I am not a voting US citizen, so it is not for me to say if it is right or wrong. We just don't have it here, so the guy won't get it.
Norway will do the right thing for themselves.
Exactly.
Which I find much preferable to the death penalty and the whole "eye for an eye" approach to justice. We're gonna show that we're better than him, and that he can't scare us into making big changes on this incident. Anyway, death is easy compared to a lifetime of nothing going on. His death wouldn't change anything.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
This is a local election year in Norway, and the campaigning was scheduled to start in full next week. All that is now cancelled or postponed until the middle of august instead. All political parties have agreed on this and noone has the heart for lesser things now anyway. I am curious how this incident will influence that election, but that's certainly not for now.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
This makes sense.
Day after day of no freedom/nothing going on sounds like real justice vs. a quick and painless "you're outta here"
One may argue the comparative "cost" to society (the cost of containing & sustaining a person for a lifetime)...but it seems like this particular point has already been worked out in comparative "benefits" of peace of mind/humanity of a nation, without having to wraggle each heinous criminal act with the "death or not" possibilities.
I like that attention is being placed where it should be ....on the victims & not on the bad guy.
here is a nice little editorial on gun violence..
Actually, Guns Do Kill People
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-a- ... 10909.html
All Americans join the world community in mourning the horrific loss of life from the Norway terrorist attacks. We can only imagine the void left in the lives of the victims' families. The staggering toll of young lives taken by a gunman at the Utoya youth camp reminds us all, once again, that guns are the enablers of mass killers.
For those who are quick to argue that "guns don't kill people, people kill people," it is instructive that the Norway killer took many more lives with his guns than with his explosives. Violent individuals intent on inflicting multiple fatalities don't choose knives or baseball bats. With few exceptions, they choose guns.
There are some in the American "gun rights" community who will no doubt use this shooting to assert that Norway's strong gun laws don't work, or to support the National Rifle Association's campaign to make it easier for Americans to carry loaded guns on the streets, and into restaurants, coffee houses, bars, college campuses and other public places. Does this mass shooting in Norway suggest that Western Europe's restrictive gun regulations are futile, while America's practically non-existent gun regulations make us safer?
Such a conclusion approaches absurdity, when we consider some well-established facts. Press reports indicate that as many as 70 young lives may have been taken in the Norwegian youth camp massacre. Whereas that number of shooting deaths in a day is treated as a historic event in Norway, it is less than the death toll from guns every day in America -- which is now in excess of 80. Whereas a mass shooting in Norway is an extraordinary tragedy, described by that nation's prime minister as a "national disaster," it is a regular occurrence in America. Within 48 hours of the Norway shooting, there were at least four mass shootings in our country: six dead at a skating rink in Texas, nine wounded during a fight between teenagers at a birthday party in Central Florida, a 15-year-old killed and eight wounded at an outdoor party near Stockton, California, and seven wounded in a casino shooting near Seattle.
As awful as the Norwegian youth camp shooting was, the average resident of that nation would have difficulty imagining life in a society with gun violence even close to what we experience in America. In 2005, for example, there were 12,352 gun homicides in the U.S. In that same year, Norway had five. The homicide rate in the U.S. is over eight times what it is in Norway because the U.S. rate of homicides with guns is 38 times higher than Norway's.
Norway has a restrictive gun licensing system, with a requirement that a prospective gun owner provide a written statement justifying why he or she wants one and stiff restrictions on how guns are stored. The fact that one gunman, driven by violent fanaticism, was able to get a gun to commit mass murder no more justifies weakening Norway's gun laws than it justifies weakening its law against murder itself. No law is a guarantee against the evil it was passed to prevent. We can say with certainty that Norway, with its strong gun laws, is a far safer place than the U.S., with its weak gun laws and its permissiveness toward carrying guns in public.
It is reasonably certain that the Norway youth camp shootings will lead to determined efforts to further strengthen that nation's gun laws. In contrast, America has suffered through Columbine, Virginia Tech, Fort Hood, Tucson and too many other similar events with little action taken to prevent more tragedies of this kind.
The youth camp shooting is neither a reason to condemn Norway's gun laws, nor to praise our own. Instead, it confirms, once more, that the well-known bumper sticker could not be more wrong. Actually, guns do kill people.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
And then your cut paste article goes on to talk about 80 people getting gunned down in the us every day.
Bet none of those murderers are atheist left wingers. :idea:
Just don't get it. Your article is rubbish.
And, you can't have my guns.
obviously not, it is not your m.o.
the article states that 80 people across this country are killed every day by gunshot. so we have the equivalent of what just happened in norway happening here every day. just not all in one place.
there might be an atheist left winger in there somewhere, but how many of them have a 1500 page manifesto based on their political and religious beliefs? i'll bet you can't name one.
and please don't blame the "librul media" for not reporting on it...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Ever think if some of the victims had a piece this would not have gone so far?
Same goes with what happened by the left wing nut job in Arizona who shot up the place, where were the card carrying members there? That blows my mind nobody was carrying a firearm then...
Your neat editorial is shit. Pure shit.
And you can't have my guns.
Please understand I mean no disrespect to the victims or people of Norway for this tragedy.
and as far as the packing heat hero stopping the shooting goes, it rarely happens. i want to see some numbers on that one..
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
28,000/365= 76.71. so assuming the 28,000 number is accurate that breaks down to 77 deaths per day by gun. when divided by the number of states, 50, it breaks down to 1.53 gunshot murders per state per day. so it is quite possible for that number to be correct. hell, just in my city and metro area (50 mile radius) i hear about several shootings per day, most with multiple people shot, and at least 2-3 murders per week. texas had 6 people murdered in one roller rink the other day, so it is quite possible these numbers are accurate.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Those Goddamn pesky facts!
It's far easier just to throw our opinions around instead and then get abusive when those pesky facts rear their ugly heads.
I'll join in to make it two of us at least.
from today's news. this happened yesterday in one city in colorado. 4 dead in one state in one day. so the numbers in my prior post are very conceivable at this point...
4 dead, 2 wounded in Colo. Springs shootings
Police say incidents are unrelated; one suspect remains at large
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43923041/ns ... nd_courts/
Police were racing for clues early Thursday after three separate shootings in Colorado Springs left at least four dead, two wounded and at least one suspect on the lam, local media reported.
Police said on Twitter late Wednesday night that they had gone to "Priority One" status and were taking only priority calls, the Denver Post reported.
In the first incident, one person was killed and one wounded at an AutoZone store in the eastern part of the city, police told The Colorado Springs Gazette.
The suspect in that shooting remains at large after briefly holding a woman hostage, The Gazette reported.
"I'm really shook up," a woman, who declined to be identified, told the Gazette. She told the newspaper that her daughter was in the store at the time of the incident, but was OK.
"I said 'Oh God, don’t let her be in there,'" the mother told the Gazette.
'I thought I was in Iraq again'
Later Wednesday night, three men were killed in central Colorado Springs, police told the Gazette.
Two men were found dead at the scene and the third died at a local hospital, reports said.
Police had no suspects, motives or getaway vehicle information in that shooting.
Local residents told journalists they heard five quick pops Wednesday night.
"I thought I was in Iraq again," George Barnes, who said he was an Army veteran who served in the war in 2005-06, told the Gazette.
In a third incident, police officers shot an armed suspect in an apartment complex, authorities said.
Authorities said the man initially fled from police, but it did not appear that he had fired on officers.
The wounded man was hospitalized but his condition was not immediately clear.
'Pretty scary'
Billy Holder, a neighbor of the shooting victim, told KRDO-TV that the man was a college student who lived with his girlfriend and young child.
Holder said that there had been a domestic dispute and the man was burning his girlfriend's belongings outside the apartment before officers arrived at the scene.
Holder told the TV station that he heard about eight gunshots after police arrived, and narrowly escaped getting hit himself.
"One of the stray bullets went through our wall and hit our glass door," Holder told KRDO. "It missed me by three to four feet. It was pretty scary."
The shooting also upset Holder's pregnant fiancee.
"She ducked and grabbed the dog and headed toward the bedroom," he told KRDO. "She was crying and everything."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Look. I agree with you about gun control. But trying to compare a country that had a population of 296 million in 2005 to one that has a population of 4.6 million in 2005 is fairly absurd. No doubt the US per capita numbers are not good, but there is no way you can compare.
So, no matter what Norway does and works (or doesn't) for them, the US needs to find it's own solution to this issue. It is far more complex here.
i'll agree ... gun control isn't the answer in the US ... it's really societal and cultural ...
I'm not really sure I get the angle of that article you posted previously...unless it is just suppose to be stupid.
Trying to compare 70 deaths in 1 instance to random killing across a over 300 million population is just that, stupid.
What this situation shows is just how difficult it is to defend/protect against 1 crazy person who happens to get an automatic weapon (despite any strict gun laws). What we need to do in the US is to figure out how to eliminate all the smaller shootings that occur because of the convenience of guns when arguments happen. Too very different things imo.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
thats how Democracy must be..respect...
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
You can attempt to eliminate - or at least reduce - the number of small shootings in the U.S, along with the big shootings by unhinged individuals - by implementing some form of gun control.
I.e, if their was no 'convenience of guns' in the first place then America wouldn't have such a big problem with gun-related homicides compared with, say, Canada.
Right, as I said, the US per capita numbers are not good.
But my other point was the difference between a 300 million and a 5 million population country is not just linear. That big an increase in humans leads to a ridiculous amount of issues that arise. So what works for Norway might not work directly for the US, and vice versa. So, it's not as simple as comparing apples to apples.
One thing I've learned in the midwest, there are a lot of very nice, safety oriented people with a lot of guns...and they want to keep them. And, they are actually used for hunting, which whether or not you agree with it, is very different then the gun use we are talking about here. And most of that hunting is done not just for sports (let's not kid ourselves, there is plenty of food at the grocery store, so people that still hunt do so for the enjoyment of the activity, not to feed their families for the most part) but at least they are using the animal for food.
And not too mention, these are the areas with the LEAST amount of killings from guns per capita. So, I can see how it's tough for them to want to give up their hobby that they do safely for the greater good of the country as a whole...or at least regulate it more closely which results in them paying $ when they aren't causing the problem.
Yep, I agree 100%.
what happened in Norway was a terrible, terrible thing, and i am in no way discounting that, but the us has a much bigger problem with gun violence. they are way too accessable. i think it is our culture. it is ok to show gratuitous violence on network tv and in video games, but if you see a boob on the super bowl halftime show the entire country is outraged and calling on the fcc to fine people.. our standards for what is permissable is completely fucked in this country. i think showing a little more nudity on tv and a little less violence might possibly be a good thing. i believe that Norway is going to learn from this tragedy and will become a better country for having experienced this and been brought together by it. similar to how we came together after 9/11. but i'll tell ya what, i guarantee there was no significant lull in gun murders here after 9/11 while all of us were shocked and united.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
how about a video instead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWOWyxC6PGE&feature=fvsr