Blast rocks central Oslo, Norway PM's office

1246

Comments

  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    polaris_x wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    what he wishes and deserves are two different things. fuck his wish. hopefully someone offs the prick here in a matter of moments.

    maybe he'll hang himself with a bed sheet tonight. it'd save Norway a shit ton of money and time and grief. it would eliminate the barrage of news coverage on this asshole, no more media continuance like other evil bastards have received.

    just my opinion i could be wrong... but im not :evil:

    you carry a lot of hate and anger in you ... that is easy to see ... i hope you find peace within yourself some day
    i am extremely thrilled with my life. i am the farthest from hate and anger you can imagine. i do not accept evil bullshit. i am sorry you cannot wrangle your badassness and stand up for goodness and that kind of decency. it is not time for weakness. the iron fist rules. i have mine. you?
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    know1 wrote:
    People can call themselves "Christian", but if they are doing things that go directly against the teachings of Christianity, is it still OK for the media to label them as Christian?

    Besides, "Christian" is a very broad term. There are a lot of different flavors under that umbrella.
    Agreed.

    However, should Christian leaders have to denounce those much like the right asks Muslim leaders to do.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    know1 wrote:
    People can call themselves "Christian", but if they are doing things that go directly against the teachings of Christianity, is it still OK for the media to label them as Christian?

    Besides, "Christian" is a very broad term. There are a lot of different flavors under that umbrella.
    Agreed.

    However, should Christian leaders have to denounce those much like the right asks Muslim leaders to do.


    yes, if he did it in the name of Jesus Christ. If not, no
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    chadwick wrote:
    i am extremely thrilled with my life. i am the farthest from hate and anger you can imagine. i do not accept evil bullshit. i am sorry you cannot wrangle your badassness and stand up for goodness and that kind of decency. it is not time for weakness. the iron fist rules. i have mine. you?

    compassion and weakness are not one in the same ... i do not support what this person has done ... but killing him is only doing what he did and continues a cycle of violence ... i will stand by the side of decency and goodness - just not with blood on my hands ...
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    polaris_x wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    i am extremely thrilled with my life. i am the farthest from hate and anger you can imagine. i do not accept evil bullshit. i am sorry you cannot wrangle your badassness and stand up for goodness and that kind of decency. it is not time for weakness. the iron fist rules. i have mine. you?

    compassion and weakness are not one in the same ... i do not support what this person has done ... but killing him is only doing what he did and continues a cycle of violence ... i will stand by the side of decency and goodness - just not with blood on my hands ...
    blood is good for us. he is a monster and should be silenced in a dark cold hole someplace. he will die before trial or shortly after... that is my wish to the universe.

    the death penalty thread revisited, yes/no?
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    compassion for this guy?
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    chadwick wrote:
    compassion for this guy?

    what is the best possible outcome out of this for you? ... this man's death?
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,157
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Agreed.

    However, should Christian leaders have to denounce those much like the right asks Muslim leaders to do.


    yes, if he did it in the name of Jesus Christ. If not, no
    I can't imagine any Christian leader not denouncing his actions, whether he did it in the name of religion or not. Everyone alive should be denouncing him as a member of the human race.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    polaris_x wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    compassion for this guy?

    what is the best possible outcome out of this for you? ... this man's death?
    norway's people to be safe again. norway's people to be able to move forward in the healing process which will take more time than i can imagine. norway's great people are my concern, not this freak monster working for evil.

    again, how many people did he murder? how many children?
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    chadwick wrote:
    norway's people to be safe again. norway's people to be able to move forward in the healing process which will take more time than i can imagine. norway's great people are my concern, not this freak monster working for evil.

    again, how many people did he murder? how many children?

    how is killing him going to accomplish any of what you want? ... how is killing him going to bring back those children?

    the best thing that can come out of this is that it doesn't happen again ... that the ignorance and hate this man carried doesn't reside in someone else ... you don't accomplish that by killing him ... you cannot begin to understand what drove him to his violent acts without compassion ... without understanding what truly motivated him ...

    killing him will only make him a martyr to all those that share is ignorant beliefs ... it will not make norway any safer ...
  • Murdered 60-70 kids at a labour party youth camp and about 10 others were killed in the blast.
    His manifesto is available online: "2083 - a European declaration of independence".
    He describes himself as a crusader and a culture warrior, looking to save Europe, Norway, from muslim invasion.
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    i am stepping out of this thread. i can see where it is going, like before, chadwick gets sidelined and is viewed as a hate filled angry prick. compassion is not needed for this dangerous maniac.


    go ahead and be soft with this monster.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,157
    polaris_x wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    norway's people to be safe again. norway's people to be able to move forward in the healing process which will take more time than i can imagine. norway's great people are my concern, not this freak monster working for evil.

    again, how many people did he murder? how many children?

    how is killing him going to accomplish any of what you want? ... how is killing him going to bring back those children?

    the best thing that can come out of this is that it doesn't happen again ... that the ignorance and hate this man carried doesn't reside in someone else ... you don't accomplish that by killing him ... you cannot begin to understand what drove him to his violent acts without compassion ... without understanding what truly motivated him ...

    killing him will only make him a martyr to all those that share is ignorant beliefs ... it will not make norway any safer ...
    His death will prevent his victims from being tormented and reliving this nightmare in 21 years. It will prevent his poisonous message from being spread and built upon. It will save tax money. It will allow a nation to heal. I'm more concerned with being compassionate for his victims and the nation of Norway. But ultimately, this is Norway's issue to deal with.

    My advice: Isolate him, study him, and dispose of him.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jason P wrote:
    His death will prevent his victims from being tormented and reliving this nightmare in 21 years. It will prevent his poisonous message from being spread and built upon. It will save tax money. It will allow a nation to heal. I'm more concerned with being compassionate for his victims and the nation of Norway. But ultimately, this is Norway's issue to deal with.

    My advice: Isolate him, study him, and dispose of him.

    it will do none of the things you mentioned
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,157
    polaris_x wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    His death will prevent his victims from being tormented and reliving this nightmare in 21 years. It will prevent his poisonous message from being spread and built upon. It will save tax money. It will allow a nation to heal. I'm more concerned with being compassionate for his victims and the nation of Norway. But ultimately, this is Norway's issue to deal with.

    My advice: Isolate him, study him, and dispose of him.

    it will do none of the things you mentioned
    I can make a case-in-point for everything I mentioned above

    Pain and Suffering: Do you think Yoko Ono enjoys going to Mark Chapman's parole hearings every two years? The stress and pain of reliving Lennon's death in all the details? In 21 year, the Norwegian victims will relive this over again. Whenever he finds a way to get himself in the news or conduct and interview, they will relive the pain.

    Poisonous Message: Have you considered the impact of the Unabomber's manifesto? The Unabomber forced major newspapers to print it and 16 years later a madman goes on an unprecedented killing spree and leaves a similar manifesto, even plagiarizing it at times. Now he gets to set in a cell with lots of time to continue expanding his ill thoughts. It may be another 16 years before we see what his impact has been on a young, impressionable mind.

    Tax Savings: This one is self-explanatory.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • he still standshe still stands Posts: 2,835
    re-posted from Facebook - Doug Stanhope;

    "Oslo death toll now down to 68 from 93--SELL, SELL! (I want 9 seconds of my minute of silence back.)"

    (too soon???)

    (you have to be able to joke about these things for the wounds to heal)
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jason P wrote:
    I can make a case-in-point for everything I mentioned above

    Pain and Suffering: Do you think Yoko Ono enjoys going to Mark Chapman's parole hearings every two years? The stress and pain of reliving Lennon's death in all the details? In 21 year, the Norwegian victims will relive this over again. Whenever he finds a way to get himself in the news or conduct and interview, they will relive the pain.

    Poisonous Message: Have you considered the impact of the Unabomber's manifesto? The Unabomber forced major newspapers to print it and 16 years later a madman goes on an unprecedented killing spree and leaves a similar manifesto, even plagiarizing it at times. Now he gets to set in a cell with lots of time to continue expanding his ill thoughts. It may be another 16 years before we see what his impact has been on a young, impressionable mind.

    Tax Savings: This one is self-explanatory.

    Do you think Yoko Ono wants Mark Chapman dead? Perhaps it's the fact he is given a parole hearing every 2 years that is the problem. You can only speculate what you think the families of the victims are enduring - killing the murderer does not change the fact that the victim is no longer amongst us ... the pain of that loss supersedes the pain associated with going to parole hearings ... and that will never change ...

    Do you think that messages of hate do not exist? Will killing him and making him a martyr amongst other people who share his beliefs help in that regard? It's like racism - we try to bury it and think it doesn't exist and then it shows its ugly head in forms like this ... we need to address it and recognize that ignorance has far reaching consequences.

    There are no tax savings. The fact is the cost of killing someone costs more than putting someone in prison for life. Even if you were to go the route of having someone kill him as he's walking the street - the cost of then trying that person and putting him in jail would then make it just as cost-prohibitive. There is no real argument as it relates to dollars.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Do you think Yoko Ono wants Mark Chapman dead? Perhaps it's the fact he is given a parole hearing every 2 years that is the problem. You can only speculate what you think the families of the victims are enduring - killing the murderer does not change the fact that the victim is no longer amongst us ... the pain of that loss supersedes the pain associated with going to parole hearings ... and that will never change ...

    no but we can change the fact that the killer still breathes and make sure he never has the chance to kill again
    but that's just for argument sake.
    personal opinions mean little when the victim is no longer with us and the family still feels the pain.
    whats right is right but who really knows what is right, if one agrees and another disagrees there is no wrong or right when talking about the death penalty some say death to the killer and some say no,pick a winner.
    I wonder if each death sentance/murder trial the fate of the killer life or death was voted on by the people of the community where the victim was killed..I wonder how the out-come would end up.

    Godfather.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,157
    polaris_x wrote:
    Do you think Yoko Ono wants Mark Chapman dead? Perhaps it's the fact he is given a parole hearing every 2 years that is the problem. You can only speculate what you think the families of the victims are enduring - killing the murderer does not change the fact that the victim is no longer amongst us ... the pain of that loss supersedes the pain associated with going to parole hearings ... and that will never change ...

    Do you think that messages of hate do not exist? Will killing him and making him a martyr amongst other people who share his beliefs help in that regard? It's like racism - we try to bury it and think it doesn't exist and then it shows its ugly head in forms like this ... we need to address it and recognize that ignorance has far reaching consequences.

    There are no tax savings. The fact is the cost of killing someone costs more than putting someone in prison for life. Even if you were to go the route of having someone kill him as he's walking the street - the cost of then trying that person and putting him in jail would then make it just as cost-prohibitive. There is no real argument as it relates to dollars.
    I don't know if Yoko favors the death penalty, but her life would be less stressful if say, Mark Chapman was claimed by pancreatic cancer in 1985. That is a fair speculation.

    I'm not contending that we should all bury our heads in the sand and ignore messages of hate. Quite to the contrary, we need to acknowledge they exist and suppress them from spreading, versus giving them a platform and audience.

    And as for disposing of him, I'm OK with them sticking him in isolation with no rights to communicate with the outside world for the rest of his life. I don't know how Norway operates, but I don't imagine that will be the case.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    Wow, there is really a difference in mentality going on here.
    Norway is doing the decent thing and the only thing to do when we're attacked by a man who doesn't like how we do things. We mourn massively (150000 gathered in Oslo tonight), vow to not let him win but otherwise continue with our lives. Attention and hate is what he wants. I won't give it to him.
    What I'm talking about: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14284377

    So our political leadership has handled this excellently. No partisan swipes. The entire nation closing ranks to show how wrong this man is, and how much we feel with the victims and their families. No emergency security laws, no "dead or alive" bullshit. Just demonstrating how humane, decent and caring we really are.

    As for the likely sentence, he'll get life. Norway has a max of 21 years in prison, but also have the provision of "containment" that can be ruled in certain serious cases. Containment means, basically, he's not getting out until the court and psychatric expertise say that he can. Which in this case is very likely to be never. And, no, he's not going to these low-security getting-convicts-soon-to-be-released-back-in-touch-with-reality places you've probably seen on youtube. This one's being locked up for life period.

    Why would death sentence be any better? That'll get him off easy. Now he's looking forward to 50 years of imprisonment with nothing going on. 50 years of considering whether what he did was really worth it. 50 years of not being the martyr he wanted to be but was too big of a coward to really go for.

    We are doing the exact right thing by mourning, and changing nothing. Change is what his screwed up mind wanted, while the rest of us doesn't. And this certainly goes to show that terrorism and whacked -out ideas from youtube videos etc is certainly not something only muslims are doing. We were attacked by an anti-muslim, without ever having been attacked by a muslim.

    Oh, and for Glen Beck's comments: From all of my and all norwegians' hearts: FUCK YOU!!

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,495
    Wow, there is really a difference in mentality going on here.
    Norway is doing the decent thing and the only thing to do when we're attacked by a man who doesn't like how we do things. We mourn massively (150000 gathered in Oslo tonight), vow to not let him win but otherwise continue with our lives. Attention and hate is what he wants. I won't give it to him.
    What I'm talking about: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14284377

    So our political leadership has handled this excellently. No partisan swipes. The entire nation closing ranks to show how wrong this man is, and how much we feel with the victims and their families. No emergency security laws, no "dead or alive" bullshit. Just demonstrating how humane, decent and caring we really are.

    As for the likely sentence, he'll get life. Norway has a max of 21 years in prison, but also have the provision of "containment" that can be ruled in certain serious cases. Containment means, basically, he's not getting out until the court and psychatric expertise say that he can. Which in this case is very likely to be never. And, no, he's not going to these low-security getting-convicts-soon-to-be-released-back-in-touch-with-reality places you've probably seen on youtube. This one's being locked up for life period.

    Why would death sentence be any better? That'll get him off easy. Now he's looking forward to 50 years of imprisonment with nothing going on. 50 years of considering whether what he did was really worth it. 50 years of not being the martyr he wanted to be but was too big of a coward to really go for.

    We are doing the exact right thing by mourning, and changing nothing. Change is what his screwed up mind wanted, while the rest of us doesn't. And this certainly goes to show that terrorism and whacked -out ideas from youtube videos etc is certainly not something only muslims are doing. We were attacked by an anti-muslim, without ever having been attacked by a muslim.

    Oh, and for Glen Beck's comments: From all of my and all norwegians' hearts: FUCK YOU!!

    Peace
    Dan

    Good to hear about "containment".

    What did Glen Beck say?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    Oh, he compared the youth organization of our labour party to be "kinda like the hitler youth", since they were at a pollitical camp learning about grassroots organizing and so on.

    I'd like to see him come over here and say that to our faces directly...

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    Oh, he compared the youth organization of our labour party to be "kinda like the hitler youth", since they were at a pollitical camp learning about grassroots organizing and so on.

    I'd like to see him come over here and say that to our faces directly...

    Peace
    Dan
    you know he won't ever do that. and he wonders why people "harrass" him and his family when he goes to the movies...the man just talks to provoke a response. glad you all in norway think he is a douche.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,495
    glad you all in norway think he is a douche.


    While you are probably right, to be fair, "you all" in this case is 1 guy on a pearl jam messageboard. ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    In fairness, I am only 1 guy. But objectively, norwegians think that he and his ilk are douches, And we don't really have them in our own media.

    And for this comment, he will have the unanimous unfavourable opinion of every norwegian that have closed ranks with the labour party on this. Ok, maybe 10-50 douces of our own might like it, but you know, there's one in every crowd... ;)

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    Ok, maybe 10-50 douces of our own might like it, but you know, there's one in every crowd... ;)

    Peace
    Dan
    you are right, there is at least one in every crowd....completely off topic, but regarding douches, there was this crew of dudes that would follow my band around and they would dress and act like your typical douches and try to hit on all the women and whatnot. they were really annoying so my band called them the "douche platoon". we named our set of demos we were working on at the time "douche platoon" in their honor... :lol:
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    News today:
    The whacko may be charged with crimes against humanity, which carries a tougher sentence of 30 years. Meant for genocide participants and the like, but might fit here.

    News in english about half the nation gathering yesterday
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14285020

    Pictures from the gatherings
    http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks ... 183812.ece

    Song which has been playing on the tv a lot since the attack. I can't listen to it without choking up.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIMRyRu-Mqw

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,495
    News today:
    The whacko may be charged with crimes against humanity, which carries a tougher sentence of 30 years. Meant for genocide participants and the like, but might fit here.

    News in english about half the nation gathering yesterday
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14285020

    Pictures from the gatherings
    http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks ... 183812.ece

    Song which has been playing on the tv a lot since the attack. I can't listen to it without choking up.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIMRyRu-Mqw

    Peace
    Dan

    Can I ask a question? Do you really think 30 years fits "genocide participants and the like"? Seems pretty ridiculous that anyone anywhere would be thinking anything less than Life without parole. But like you said, there is "containment", so maybe it's just legal bable.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Can I ask a question? Do you really think 30 years fits "genocide participants and the like"? Seems pretty ridiculous that anyone anywhere would be thinking anything less than Life without parole. But like you said, there is "containment", so maybe it's just legal bable.

    The 30 years thing is just a number. There is zero possibility that the guy will ever leave confinement. Zero. And rightly so. His death might solve his case and stop his views being publicised for years to come. But you can't pick and choose with the death penalty, you either have it or you don't, and I think Europe looks at the number of mistakes made in the US and other countries and just doesn't fancy having those on the conscience.

    It's a shame about the religious angle he's using to validate his insane actions. Ideologies like his taint the view of atheists and agnostics about the good that religion does have at its core. Unfortunately, the sick few who use the tool for their own abhorent ends taint the rest. I speak as a staunch atheist here but I respect the fact that the majority of people of faith don't condone his views or actions and that if he understood anything about the religion he claims to be a part of, he'd never have committed such acts. He's a crazy man using a powerful and emotive argument that is fundamentally flawed by his own actions. The only problem is that a culture of fear does exist between religions and races as these few lunatics have the power to make people feel very insecure. Personally, I believe that a world without religion would be a world without fear but I accept that it will never happen, so we need to remind ourselves of the good in all faiths and try not to be bullied into fear by such people with extreme views.

    Thoughts to you all in Norway, it is wonderful to see your politicians acting with dignity and pulling together at this time. It gives real hope that the final outcome of this tragedy will only be to pull the different ethnicities and religions within our region closer together, as you seek mutual understanding in grief. That would be a fitting end, if this madman hoping to divide religions and incite retalliation from the Jihadist communtity only served to bring the hearts and minds closer together. I believe that will happen as a result, rather than creating the untenable secular society he craves this time, which he hopes wil lead to interracial and religious civil war and the ultimate end of religious freedom in Europe.
    we're all going to the same place...
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    i highly suggest people who want to see this guy dead watch how the people of norway respond to this tragedy ... they are united as ever ...united in their intolerance for hate and ignorance ... united in their compassion for the victims and their families ... they are not driven by vengeance ... that is what drove the guy in the other thread ... it's a symbol of humanity well worth witnessing ...
Sign In or Register to comment.