Lance Armstrong doping ?

DS1119

Indifference71 wrote:

It's funny how people pretend to actually care about cycling whenever these doping charges come up...

I do agree but he is a pretty big representative of the United States worldwide and this is just not good.

Wobbie

Indifference71 wrote:

It's funny how people pretend to actually care about cycling whenever these doping charges come up...

do I follow it year-round? no.

but I fucking LOVE the TDF :corn:

Wobbie

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow ... 0808.story

voidofman

He really dropped the ball.

Wobbie

voidofman wrote:

He really dropped the ball.

I think I see what you did there :shifty:

chadwick

i will say that i believe he is straight up and badass as it gets. he has a enlarged heart 1/2 yet again bigger than a normal heart. the dude has good character and isn't some steroid/drug freak...to my knowledge anyway. he is a phenomenal athlete

eddiec

I just don't get the vendetta against Lance. It seems as if no other athlete that has passed so many tests is routinely brought up on these charges. He no longer races competitively, why the ongoing witch trial to discredit him and strip him of his wins. In all of sports I have never seen an athlete investigated like this. First it was the French because they were pissed off an American was winning their grand prize, now the US Gov't keeps stalking him. I say let it go already.

Riverrunner

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/armstrongcharging0613.pdf

This is the letter to Armstrong, Bruyneel and the other three that are being charged. Lance is not a nice guy. If you read the charges part of it includes using coercion and intimidation to force team mates into doping and lying. He is known for being a bully, and will all of the power he wielded he could and did hurt a lot of other cyclists who tried to stand up to him and change the doping culture of cycling. Lance was win at any cost including taking doping in cycling to a whole different level. He had money to pay off UCI who hid his positive test result from the Tour de Swiss in 2001. He donated large sums of money to UCI and who knows how many other results have been covered up or changed because of this. Although it is likely that many others doped Lance did it in such a systematic and wide spread way that there is a reason to focus on him and his partners in crime. He is/was the "godfather" of doping in cycling. In an investigation the focus is on the "big guns."

I despise Lance for what he did to Simeoni in 2004, and what he did not Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis after they had the balls to come forward and admit to what they did, and admit what Lance did. He also launched his vindictive, mean campaign against Betsy Andreau and his masseuse (can't think of name) who also told of their knowledge of his doping. So anyway, Lance deserves any and all repercussion. It is my fear that his power and influence may get him out of this too.

As to how many millions he has raised for cancer research.... there are lots and lots of questions about that too. There is a difference between livestrong.org and livestrong.com. It appears that lots and lots of money that people think is going to livestrong cancer beneficiaries is really going to livestrong.com. It is a very convoluted corporate entanglement but it appears as if Lance gets a lot of money personally because livestrong.com is not the charitable organization. Also, even livestrong.org doesn't pretend to fund cancer research. It is all about cancer "awareness."

Don't know what's going to happen to Radio Shack Nissan Trek now. Bruyneel is being charged, and Andy Schleck announced he won't be in the TDF due to a cracked tail bone.

Wobbie

^^^^ the last three posts perfectly show the dichotomy of public opinion when it comes to lance.

I gotta fall into the riverrunner camp.

Carey

chadwick wrote:

i will say that i believe he is straight up and badass as it gets. he has a enlarged heart 1/2 yet again bigger than a normal heart. the dude has good character and isn't some steroid/drug freak...to my knowledge anyway. he is a phenomenal athlete

Does he really have an enlarged heart? I am curious about this. Where did you hear/read that? It makes me wonder if it's enlarged from injecting erythropoietin for blood doping??

lukin2006

Carey wrote:

chadwick wrote:

i will say that i believe he is straight up and badass as it gets. he has a enlarged heart 1/2 yet again bigger than a normal heart. the dude has good character and isn't some steroid/drug freak...to my knowledge anyway. he is a phenomenal athlete

Does he really have an enlarged heart? I am curious about this. Where did you hear/read that? It makes me wonder if it's enlarged from injecting erythropoietin for blood doping??

This is an old article explaining Armstrong's makeup.

Lance Armstrong armed with unique genetic gifts

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/CTVNewsAt11/2 ... dy_050722/

He never tested positive in 500 test...sounds like a witch hunt.

Riverrunner

He has tested positive.

Once he failed a test for steroids, but his doctor created a script after the positive test. Lance said he had a saddle sore that needed treatment. It is against the rules to get a script AFTER you test positive. Certain treatments are allowed if you get a script and turn it in to officials. The rules were broken for Lance and they let him slide.

He tested positive in the Tour de Swiss in 2001 and the results were covered up by UCI.

There are the unofficial tests of Lance' blood samples a few years after they were collected which shows EPO use. During the years the blood was collected there was not a test to detect EPO. A few years later a test was developed. His blood was tested and showed positive. However, this was an unofficial test after the fact and could not be used for sanctions or charges. Also, don't know if there is any assurance that blood that old could be tested accurately.

And finally, if you read the current charges, it says that there are results from 2009 and 2010 showing blood doping. Apparently the reason charges weren't forthcoming at the time was because USADA was waiting for the Justice Dept. investigation to be completed. The Justice Dept. declined to charge Armstrong criminally much to the chagrin of the investigators who conducted the investigation. It appears as if it was a political decision that came from the Dept. of Justice. And of course, the DOJ was looking at criminal charges. The USADA is looking for doping violations - two different things.

rick1zoo2

I don't know whether it's the riders doing stuff and trying to get away with it or it's the agencies relentless going after them. but either way, it's made me lose interest with the sport. I enjoyed watching TDF in the past.

Cliffy6745

Fuck this guy. His cancer stuff is good and appreciated, but as someone else said, his work with cancer isn't as good as it is preceived. But I have never seen a bigger scumbag get more goodwill than this asshole.

voidofman

imalive wrote:

voidofman wrote:

He really dropped the ball.

I think I see what you did there :shifty:

You did sir, you did.

I told my wife the same thing and she just did this:

Riverrunner

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12114/Kimmage-There-is-no-other-conclusion-other-than-Floyd-Landis-told-the-truth.aspx?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+velonation_pro_cycling+%28Cycling+News+%26+Race+Results+%7C+VeloNation.com%29

Anti-doping journalist and former pro Paul Kimmage has hailed today's news that the US Anti Doping Agency has brought charges against Lance Armstrong, Johan Bruyneel and four others, saying that it was a very important step forward for clean sport.

The Irishman described himself as ‘very happy,’ when contacted by VeloNation on Wednesday evening, applauding the USADA CEO for his persistence in remaining on the case. “This is has been a long time coming and the rap sheet is just so comprehensive that it is a really, really impressive piece of work by Travis Tygart,” he said. “Thank God someone in a position of power and responsibility has had the balls to actually stand up and do the job. For so long the people who could have done this earlier have reneged on their responsibilities. So hats off to Travis Tygart.”

The Washington Post announced on Wednesday that USADA had sent letters to Armstrong, Bruyneel, doctors Michele Ferrari (Italy), Pedro Celaya (Luxembourg, and currently with the RadioShack Nissan team), Luis Garcia del Moral (Spain) and the Spanish trainer Pepe Marti, who previously worked with the team, then moved on to be Alberto Contador’s coach.

That letter laid out charges that they were involved in what the Post termed a ‘massive doping conspiracy’ between 1998 and 2011, and said that there were more then ten cyclists amongst the witnesses.

It also stated that Armstrong’s post-comeback samples in 2009 and 2010, were “fully consistent with blood manipulation including EPO use and/or blood transfusions.”

When Armstrong returned to the sport, he said that he would do so fully clean, and undergo independent testing by the anti-doping researcher Don Catlin to prove that he was not using any banned substances. Apart from answering critics by doing so, he said that it would also show his children that their father raced clean, and that any suggestions otherwise were false.

Several months into the comeback, though, Catlin confirmed that the ant-doping testing had not yet begun. It was abandoned soon afterwards, with both parties stating that it was too difficult to arrange.

Kimmage said that USADA’s claims that rules were being broken in 2009 and 2010 were not surprising to him. “Anybody who could believe that this guy could operate in any other way than to cheat was deluding himself,” he asserted. “I never believed that when he came back that he would be any different to before, and here we have conclusive evidence of that.”

Legal action:

In January of this year Kimmage confirmed that the UCI’s current president Pat McQuaid and its former chief Hein Verbruggen had taken legal action against him, claiming to the Swiss District Court that he has caused them ‘annoyance’ and that their ‘reputation has been seriously damaged’ by articles.

The process is ongoing, but today’s announcement will raise questions about the UCI’s policies in the Armstrong years. For example, if USADA can show that Armstrong was indeed doping in 2009 and 2010, that will raise major questions about why the UCI’s self-praised biological passport system didn’t raise flags.

If earlier doping is proven, it will be a blow to a governing body which had close links to the rider, which was accused by Landis of protecting him, and which vouched for him on more than one occasion.

Kimmage believes the action was taken for very specific reasons. “There are two things about this,” he said. “The action against me was taken to keep me quiet, to shut me up. It wasn’t about money…it was about ‘we don’t like what Paul Kimmage is saying, we don’t like what Floyd Landis is saying.’

“The other thing this indicates is that everything Floyd Landis was saying is true. You read this report and there is no other conclusion than that Floyd Landis told the truth. Is it a coincidence that Floyd Landis and Paul Kimmage are the two people the UCI went after? Maybe not…”

The Irishman points out that there have been several reports of the close links between Armstrong and the UCI.

One matter Kimmage refers to dates back to the 2009 Tour de France, when UCI testers arrived at the hotel to test the Astana team ran at the time by Bruyneel. Rather than testing the riders immediately, as per usual standards, they accepted the team’s request and gave the riders almost an hour before the controls were carried out.

If the riders were indeed doping, this would have given them time to take measures to avoid a positive test.

Controversially, the governing body also accepted donations from Armstrong, but said the money was given for anti-doping funding. McQuaid has since conceded that the acceptance of that money was an error of judgement.

Kimmage is clear on what should have happened long before now. ‘People in responsibility could have stopped this a long time ago had they actually applied the rules. They weren’t applied,” he said. “It has taken Travis Tygart to do his job and to stand up for sport.

“Also, Betsy Andreu has been heroic, she told the truth. Emma O’Reilly told the truth. These are the people who deserve praise tonight; people who stood up for the sport."

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12114 ... z1xmaTnHzs

Wobbie

too much smoke for there to not be a fire :?

chadwick

Carey wrote:

chadwick wrote:

i will say that i believe he is straight up and badass as it gets. he has a enlarged heart 1/2 yet again bigger than a normal heart. the dude has good character and isn't some steroid/drug freak...to my knowledge anyway. he is a phenomenal athlete

Does he really have an enlarged heart? I am curious about this. Where did you hear/read that? It makes me wonder if it's enlarged from injecting erythropoietin for blood doping??

like the race horse secretariat, lance has a bigger motor than others who perform the same races. i read it in some magazine or online many years back. i could not tell you what articale or whatever but it was credible. at this point its common knowledge in the biking community, lance's heart and body makeup. he was born with a bigger ticker. mine is from high blood pressure, yes i have an enlarged heart myself. i bet a million bucks i was born w/ a giant ass heart. :twisted:

what would erythropietin do to a person once it's injected? why would someone who is very athletic and incredible as it is, use drugs? i don't see the mindset it takes for a guy like lance to use drugs or alcohol. if i was lance armstrong i'd be no less than 400 miles from any toxins anywhere anyway, which is actually how we all should be living

Jason P

Has anyone ever gone under more scrutiny over a 15 year period and won every time?

polaris_x

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Fuck this guy. His cancer stuff is good and appreciated, but as someone else said, his work with cancer isn't as good as it is preceived. But I have never seen a bigger scumbag get more goodwill than this asshole.

yup ... copy and paste from my MT thread post ...

1. he's NEVER had a bad day ... in winning 7 TDF's - the guy never had a bad day ... if you watch cycling - they all have bad days ... it's just the natural way the body responds to endurance sports ...

2. the witness account is overwhelming ... it's not heresay here ... it's tons of witnesses and his affiliation with doctors and people already convicted of doping infractions - see michael ferrari

3. read up on what the money his livestrong foundation goes to ... yeah - dude has made cancer awareness huge but he also rakes in a lot of d'oh and it's not all going to altruistic purposes

4. he has close ties with the UCI which forever was turning a blind eye to doping ...

5. remember - people like marion jones never failed a drug test either nor carl lewis nor a bunch of american athletes that we now know doped ... do not underestimate the power of money ...