i will say that i believe he is straight up and badass as it gets. he has a enlarged heart 1/2 yet again bigger than a normal heart. the dude has good character and isn't some steroid/drug freak...to my knowledge anyway. he is a phenomenal athlete
Does he really have an enlarged heart? I am curious about this. Where did you hear/read that? It makes me wonder if it's enlarged from injecting erythropoietin for blood doping??
This is an old article explaining Armstrong's makeup.
Once he failed a test for steroids, but his doctor created a script after the positive test. Lance said he had a saddle sore that needed treatment. It is against the rules to get a script AFTER you test positive. Certain treatments are allowed if you get a script and turn it in to officials. The rules were broken for Lance and they let him slide.
He tested positive in the Tour de Swiss in 2001 and the results were covered up by UCI.
There are the unofficial tests of Lance' blood samples a few years after they were collected which shows EPO use. During the years the blood was collected there was not a test to detect EPO. A few years later a test was developed. His blood was tested and showed positive. However, this was an unofficial test after the fact and could not be used for sanctions or charges. Also, don't know if there is any assurance that blood that old could be tested accurately.
And finally, if you read the current charges, it says that there are results from 2009 and 2010 showing blood doping. Apparently the reason charges weren't forthcoming at the time was because USADA was waiting for the Justice Dept. investigation to be completed. The Justice Dept. declined to charge Armstrong criminally much to the chagrin of the investigators who conducted the investigation. It appears as if it was a political decision that came from the Dept. of Justice. And of course, the DOJ was looking at criminal charges. The USADA is looking for doping violations - two different things.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
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rick1zoo2
between a rock and a dumb place Posts: 12,632
I don't know whether it's the riders doing stuff and trying to get away with it or it's the agencies relentless going after them. but either way, it's made me lose interest with the sport. I enjoyed watching TDF in the past.
Fuck this guy. His cancer stuff is good and appreciated, but as someone else said, his work with cancer isn't as good as it is preceived. But I have never seen a bigger scumbag get more goodwill than this asshole.
Anti-doping journalist and former pro Paul Kimmage has hailed today's news that the US Anti Doping Agency has brought charges against Lance Armstrong, Johan Bruyneel and four others, saying that it was a very important step forward for clean sport.
The Irishman described himself as ‘very happy,’ when contacted by VeloNation on Wednesday evening, applauding the USADA CEO for his persistence in remaining on the case. “This is has been a long time coming and the rap sheet is just so comprehensive that it is a really, really impressive piece of work by Travis Tygart,” he said. “Thank God someone in a position of power and responsibility has had the balls to actually stand up and do the job. For so long the people who could have done this earlier have reneged on their responsibilities. So hats off to Travis Tygart.”
The Washington Post announced on Wednesday that USADA had sent letters to Armstrong, Bruyneel, doctors Michele Ferrari (Italy), Pedro Celaya (Luxembourg, and currently with the RadioShack Nissan team), Luis Garcia del Moral (Spain) and the Spanish trainer Pepe Marti, who previously worked with the team, then moved on to be Alberto Contador’s coach.
That letter laid out charges that they were involved in what the Post termed a ‘massive doping conspiracy’ between 1998 and 2011, and said that there were more then ten cyclists amongst the witnesses.
It also stated that Armstrong’s post-comeback samples in 2009 and 2010, were “fully consistent with blood manipulation including EPO use and/or blood transfusions.”
When Armstrong returned to the sport, he said that he would do so fully clean, and undergo independent testing by the anti-doping researcher Don Catlin to prove that he was not using any banned substances. Apart from answering critics by doing so, he said that it would also show his children that their father raced clean, and that any suggestions otherwise were false.
Several months into the comeback, though, Catlin confirmed that the ant-doping testing had not yet begun. It was abandoned soon afterwards, with both parties stating that it was too difficult to arrange.
Kimmage said that USADA’s claims that rules were being broken in 2009 and 2010 were not surprising to him. “Anybody who could believe that this guy could operate in any other way than to cheat was deluding himself,” he asserted. “I never believed that when he came back that he would be any different to before, and here we have conclusive evidence of that.”
Legal action:
In January of this year Kimmage confirmed that the UCI’s current president Pat McQuaid and its former chief Hein Verbruggen had taken legal action against him, claiming to the Swiss District Court that he has caused them ‘annoyance’ and that their ‘reputation has been seriously damaged’ by articles.
The process is ongoing, but today’s announcement will raise questions about the UCI’s policies in the Armstrong years. For example, if USADA can show that Armstrong was indeed doping in 2009 and 2010, that will raise major questions about why the UCI’s self-praised biological passport system didn’t raise flags.
If earlier doping is proven, it will be a blow to a governing body which had close links to the rider, which was accused by Landis of protecting him, and which vouched for him on more than one occasion.
Kimmage believes the action was taken for very specific reasons. “There are two things about this,” he said. “The action against me was taken to keep me quiet, to shut me up. It wasn’t about money…it was about ‘we don’t like what Paul Kimmage is saying, we don’t like what Floyd Landis is saying.’
“The other thing this indicates is that everything Floyd Landis was saying is true. You read this report and there is no other conclusion than that Floyd Landis told the truth. Is it a coincidence that Floyd Landis and Paul Kimmage are the two people the UCI went after? Maybe not…”
The Irishman points out that there have been several reports of the close links between Armstrong and the UCI.
One matter Kimmage refers to dates back to the 2009 Tour de France, when UCI testers arrived at the hotel to test the Astana team ran at the time by Bruyneel. Rather than testing the riders immediately, as per usual standards, they accepted the team’s request and gave the riders almost an hour before the controls were carried out.
If the riders were indeed doping, this would have given them time to take measures to avoid a positive test.
Controversially, the governing body also accepted donations from Armstrong, but said the money was given for anti-doping funding. McQuaid has since conceded that the acceptance of that money was an error of judgement.
Kimmage is clear on what should have happened long before now. ‘People in responsibility could have stopped this a long time ago had they actually applied the rules. They weren’t applied,” he said. “It has taken Travis Tygart to do his job and to stand up for sport.
“Also, Betsy Andreu has been heroic, she told the truth. Emma O’Reilly told the truth. These are the people who deserve praise tonight; people who stood up for the sport."
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i will say that i believe he is straight up and badass as it gets. he has a enlarged heart 1/2 yet again bigger than a normal heart. the dude has good character and isn't some steroid/drug freak...to my knowledge anyway. he is a phenomenal athlete
Does he really have an enlarged heart? I am curious about this. Where did you hear/read that? It makes me wonder if it's enlarged from injecting erythropoietin for blood doping??
like the race horse secretariat, lance has a bigger motor than others who perform the same races. i read it in some magazine or online many years back. i could not tell you what articale or whatever but it was credible. at this point its common knowledge in the biking community, lance's heart and body makeup. he was born with a bigger ticker. mine is from high blood pressure, yes i have an enlarged heart myself. i bet a million bucks i was born w/ a giant ass heart. :twisted:
what would erythropietin do to a person once it's injected? why would someone who is very athletic and incredible as it is, use drugs? i don't see the mindset it takes for a guy like lance to use drugs or alcohol. if i was lance armstrong i'd be no less than 400 miles from any toxins anywhere anyway, which is actually how we all should be living
Fuck this guy. His cancer stuff is good and appreciated, but as someone else said, his work with cancer isn't as good as it is preceived. But I have never seen a bigger scumbag get more goodwill than this asshole.
yup ... copy and paste from my MT thread post ...
1. he's NEVER had a bad day ... in winning 7 TDF's - the guy never had a bad day ... if you watch cycling - they all have bad days ... it's just the natural way the body responds to endurance sports ...
2. the witness account is overwhelming ... it's not heresay here ... it's tons of witnesses and his affiliation with doctors and people already convicted of doping infractions - see michael ferrari
3. read up on what the money his livestrong foundation goes to ... yeah - dude has made cancer awareness huge but he also rakes in a lot of d'oh and it's not all going to altruistic purposes
4. he has close ties with the UCI which forever was turning a blind eye to doping ...
5. remember - people like marion jones never failed a drug test either nor carl lewis nor a bunch of american athletes that we now know doped ... do not underestimate the power of money ...
i think people also have to understand the role of the UCI here ... they are the ones that are gonna come out of it looking the worst because ultimately they are complicit ...
like how is it that when a tester shows up to perform a random drug test on a team is that team given 1 hr to comply!?? ... it's against the rules and gives those people proven time to mask any doping ...
look at every one he was affiliated with ... bruyneel, ferrari, hincapie, armstrong, landis, andreu ... they have all fallen ... he's the only guy ...
5. remember - people like marion jones never failed a drug test either nor carl lewis nor a bunch of american athletes that we now know doped ... do not underestimate the power of money ...
I forgot to make this point in an earlier post. The science of cheating drug testing is usually as fast or faster than the science of detecting the cheaters. And the quality of your "medical & training" team depends a lot on how much money you have to spend. So for those that say all of the cyclists were equal, they were not. The teams and riders with less money and clout than Lance did not have the same performance enhancing drug advantages as Lance did.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
I forgot to make this point in an earlier post. The science of cheating drug testing is usually as fast or faster than the science of detecting the cheaters. And the quality of your "medical & training" team depends a lot on how much money you have to spend. So for those that say all of the cyclists were equal, they were not. The teams and riders with less money and clout than Lance did not have the same performance enhancing drug advantages as Lance did.
yeah ... all i can say is lawyers have made a killing working for lance ...
I was going to post this last night, but didn't get around to it. Below is the text of the article. The Simeoni incident was the point where I started the downward slide to NOT being a Lance fan. Lance pretty much destroyed their (Simeoni & Bassons) cycling careers. He has made sure that Frankie Andreau has had a hard time keeping jobs as a cycling journalist. His masseuse, Emily ??, was harassed continually and publicly humiliated by Lance and his hired media thugs. He destroys people who cross him.
Bassons and Simeoni say Armstrong probe is overdue
By:
Daniel Friebe
Published:
June 14, 21:28,
Updated:
June 14, 21:46
American's old foes nonetheless welcome USADA efforts
Two men who clashed infamously with Lance Armstrong during his reign as the Tour de France’s dominant rider, Christophe Bassons and Filippo Simeoni, today welcomed news that Armstrong will face doping charges from the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA).
Bassons said that USADA’s action was “important” but also long overdue. “It’s a shame now that it’s coming 15 years after it all happened. It’s a shame because the evidence was there for years. I knew all along what was happening, so this doesn’t change anything for me. I don’t need fifteen pages of documents to tell me what I knew already,” Bassons told Cyclingnews.
Simeoni had similarly mixed feelings. The Italian said the possibility of Armstrong being condemned for doping left him “cold”. Simeoni also “can’t understand why suddenly now they’re investigating him, when for years he was allowed to do whatever he wanted.”
Armstrong last night dismissed the investigation as a “witch-hunt”. “I have never doped,” he affirmed in a statement.
Bassons and Simeoni had of course tackled Armstrong about doping, in their own ways, long before this latest round of allegations. In 1999, Bassons was riding the Tour de France for La Française des Jeux but also penning a daily column for Le Parisien. After writing that the peloton had been “shocked” by Armstrong’s stage-win at Sestriere, Bassons was confronted by Armstrong on the road to Alpe d'Huez the next day and invited to stop his innuendo or else leave the sport. Two years later, sure enough, Bassons quit professional cycling at age 27. He now works for the French Ministry of Youth and Sports.
Today Bassons expressed his hope that anyone found guilty in the USADA probe will be banished from cycling. He also, though, partly supported Armstrong’s claim that the seven-time Tour champion is being singled out, while those who have given evidence against him seem set to escape without penalty for their own misdeeds.
“I can understand why they’re offering plea bargains. History tells us that, unfortunately, that’s the only way people will talk. It also provides very valuable intelligence when they do that,” Bassons said. “What is wrong is giving them complete immunity in return for information. When there’s a crime, there has to be a punishment. If there’s not, what’s happening here sets a dangerous precedent.
“As for Armstrong’s entourage, if found guilty, they can’t be allowed back in to work with teams in the future,” he continued. “In general I’m against making doping a criminal offense, except when there is trafficking involved, but there’s no reason why we can’t rid the sport of people who have facilitated doping on this scale.”
On the UCI’s role in the affair, and in particular allegations that they were complicit with what USADA is calling the US Postal team’s “conspiracy”, Bassons called for a radical rethink of sports federations’ role in anti-doping.
“It’s that old chestnut: you can’t have the body in charge of promoting a sport also policing it. Give responsibility for anti-doping to WADA or national anti-doping agencies. But not to the federations,” he argued.
Filippo Simeoni was involved in his own notorious spat with Armstrong at the 2004 Tour de France. Two years earlier, Simeoni had testified before an Italian magistrate that doctor Michele Ferrari had advised him to use EPO and testosterone in 1997, a claim that prompted Armstrong to brand Simeoni an “absolute liar” in an interview with Le Monde in 2003. The following year at the Tour, Armstrong thwarted Simeoni’s breakaway attempts and allegedly threatened to “destroy” the Italian in a mid-race exchange on stage 18.
Simeoni now owns two bars in Sezze, between Rome and Naples. The 40-year-old claims to have “left cycling behind completely”, although he happened to be riding his bike when Cyclingnews reached him today.
While he applauded USADA’s efforts, he also said that whatever comes of the investigation will bring scant consolation.
“This all leaves me a bit cold now. I’ve taken myself out of that world completely,” he said. “I just can’t understand how justice has taken this long. There was always evidence, but nothing was done. Is what they've got that much more crushing now? Armstrong was allowed to do whatever he wanted for years. He was a superhero, untouchable. Now this. I suppose it just shows how the balance has shifted; before, I think there were forces greater than our understanding working to protect him; now there’s probably also a reason why they’ve decided to take him down.
“We’ll see how it goes,” Simeoni summed up. “I prefer not to dwell too much, because I have too many regrets if I do. This whole business really cut me down in my prime. Now it’d be nice to just get justice, although I still fear that this could rumble on for months if not years.”
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
if you read the article - they both clearly state that it doesn't really matter to them now ... lance destroyed their careers - they've moved on ...
if you suspected a co-worker was embezzling money and you blamed that person for getting you fired 15 years ago .... and then you found out they were getting tried for embezzlement today ... are you going to say glowing things about that person or trash them?
if you suspected a co-worker was embezzling money and you blamed that person for getting you fired 15 years ago .... and then you found out they were getting tried for embezzlement today ... are you going to say glowing things about that person or trash them?
i will trash them ... but how is that sour grapes?
it's not like these guys are clamouring for attention ... the outlet called them and they granted them interviews ... dude was 27 and talented and he was forced out of cycling by lance ... what do you want him to say?
it's not like these guys are clamouring for attention ... the outlet called them and they granted them interviews ... dude was 27 and talented and he was forced out of cycling by lance ... what do you want him to say?
Both Bassons and Simeoni told the truth about doping in cycling. Lance waged war on them and destroyed their careers. Of course, there would (should) be some satisfaction for them. Who wouldn't? Mother Theresa, maybe? How would you feel, if you did the right thing and then was banished from a career that you loved due to the arrogant bastard that was breaking the rule? They haven't changed their story. So how can what they are saying now be trash talk? It's what they've been saying all along. I hope Lance goes down and goes down hard. I despise mean, petty, arrogant, self-centered people.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=8691 Much more extensive article from 2005 about Simeoni. The reason Lance attacked Simeoni was because Simeoni was testifying aginst Dr. Ferrari, the biggest doping doctor ever IMO. Dr. Ferrari was Lance's "coach" and provided Lance with the PED's. Lance got upset when Dr. Ferrari was threatened by Simeoni's testimony. Lance, in an interview, said Simeoni was a big liar. Simeoni sued Lance for defamation. That really pissed Lance off so he set out to teach Simeoni a lesson.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
AUSTIN, TX—Following formal charges of performance-enhancing drug use brought by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency against Lance Armstrong on Wednesday, Armstrong's longtime bicycle has stepped forward to take full responsibility. "I can no longer keep silent—it was me all along," said the bicycle, admitting it had engaged in a full regimen of transfusions, EPO use, and other forms of blood manipulation throughout Armstrong's entire career. "I was doping for every one of Lance's and my Tours de France, and now it's time for me to face the consequences. I apologize for what this has done to my family, to my friends, and to Lance, my longtime partner." Armstrong refused comment on the issue, saying only that he maintained his own innocence and hoped his bicycle would get the help it obviously needed.
You said they were forced out of racing. I was asking if they were banned from cycling as I am not familiar with either person or their careers.
they were essentially forced out because teams couldn't take them on ... threats and reprisals were in hand if anyone tried to take them on ...
this is why lance got away with stuff ... the UCI were complicit in the cover up of lance's doping ...
While Lance does come across as a jack-wad if you betray his loyalty, there's one instance that defies this. In an interview with Chris Horner four or five years ago, he wasn't holding back and essentially accused the entire postal team of doping. Within a year or two after that, Lance hires Horner to be on his team with no bad blood between them and they appeared to get along just fine. I just thought it was interesting story, and as a Horner fan, after I read the interview I was thinking 'crap, how is this going to play out'.
I have mixed feelings about the Lance situation and I resist taking one side or the other and rather see how he's a tool and at the same time can be a decent guy.
AUSTIN, TX—Following formal charges of performance-enhancing drug use brought by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency against Lance Armstrong on Wednesday, Armstrong's longtime bicycle has stepped forward to take full responsibility. "I can no longer keep silent—it was me all along," said the bicycle, admitting it had engaged in a full regimen of transfusions, EPO use, and other forms of blood manipulation throughout Armstrong's entire career. "I was doping for every one of Lance's and my Tours de France, and now it's time for me to face the consequences. I apologize for what this has done to my family, to my friends, and to Lance, my longtime partner." Armstrong refused comment on the issue, saying only that he maintained his own innocence and hoped his bicycle would get the help it obviously needed.
While Lance does come across as a jack-wad if you betray his loyalty, there's one instance that defies this. In an interview with Chris Horner four or five years ago, he wasn't holding back and essentially accused the entire postal team of doping. Within a year or two after that, Lance hires Horner to be on his team with no bad blood between them and they appeared to get along just fine. I just thought it was interesting story, and as a Horner fan, after I read the interview I was thinking 'crap, how is this going to play out'.
I have mixed feelings about the Lance situation and I resist taking one side or the other and rather see how he's a tool and at the same time can be a decent guy.
i think what is clear now is that during lance's reign everyone was doping ... i find is both sad and funny how both ivan basso and jan ullrich are potential beneficiaries of lance being stripped of his tdf victories ... both those guys have been shown to use drugs ... the problem way back was that the UCI was responsible for testing and the reality is that you can't have the same body promote a sport and regulate it ... it's a conflict of interest ...
it is why lance got away with it for so long ... but the evidence is ample here ...
Comments
This is an old article explaining Armstrong's makeup.
Lance Armstrong armed with unique genetic gifts
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/CTVNewsAt11/2 ... dy_050722/
He never tested positive in 500 test...sounds like a witch hunt.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Once he failed a test for steroids, but his doctor created a script after the positive test. Lance said he had a saddle sore that needed treatment. It is against the rules to get a script AFTER you test positive. Certain treatments are allowed if you get a script and turn it in to officials. The rules were broken for Lance and they let him slide.
He tested positive in the Tour de Swiss in 2001 and the results were covered up by UCI.
There are the unofficial tests of Lance' blood samples a few years after they were collected which shows EPO use. During the years the blood was collected there was not a test to detect EPO. A few years later a test was developed. His blood was tested and showed positive. However, this was an unofficial test after the fact and could not be used for sanctions or charges. Also, don't know if there is any assurance that blood that old could be tested accurately.
And finally, if you read the current charges, it says that there are results from 2009 and 2010 showing blood doping. Apparently the reason charges weren't forthcoming at the time was because USADA was waiting for the Justice Dept. investigation to be completed. The Justice Dept. declined to charge Armstrong criminally much to the chagrin of the investigators who conducted the investigation. It appears as if it was a political decision that came from the Dept. of Justice. And of course, the DOJ was looking at criminal charges. The USADA is looking for doping violations - two different things.
You did sir, you did.
I told my wife the same thing and she just did this:
Anti-doping journalist and former pro Paul Kimmage has hailed today's news that the US Anti Doping Agency has brought charges against Lance Armstrong, Johan Bruyneel and four others, saying that it was a very important step forward for clean sport.
The Irishman described himself as ‘very happy,’ when contacted by VeloNation on Wednesday evening, applauding the USADA CEO for his persistence in remaining on the case. “This is has been a long time coming and the rap sheet is just so comprehensive that it is a really, really impressive piece of work by Travis Tygart,” he said. “Thank God someone in a position of power and responsibility has had the balls to actually stand up and do the job. For so long the people who could have done this earlier have reneged on their responsibilities. So hats off to Travis Tygart.”
The Washington Post announced on Wednesday that USADA had sent letters to Armstrong, Bruyneel, doctors Michele Ferrari (Italy), Pedro Celaya (Luxembourg, and currently with the RadioShack Nissan team), Luis Garcia del Moral (Spain) and the Spanish trainer Pepe Marti, who previously worked with the team, then moved on to be Alberto Contador’s coach.
That letter laid out charges that they were involved in what the Post termed a ‘massive doping conspiracy’ between 1998 and 2011, and said that there were more then ten cyclists amongst the witnesses.
It also stated that Armstrong’s post-comeback samples in 2009 and 2010, were “fully consistent with blood manipulation including EPO use and/or blood transfusions.”
When Armstrong returned to the sport, he said that he would do so fully clean, and undergo independent testing by the anti-doping researcher Don Catlin to prove that he was not using any banned substances. Apart from answering critics by doing so, he said that it would also show his children that their father raced clean, and that any suggestions otherwise were false.
Several months into the comeback, though, Catlin confirmed that the ant-doping testing had not yet begun. It was abandoned soon afterwards, with both parties stating that it was too difficult to arrange.
Kimmage said that USADA’s claims that rules were being broken in 2009 and 2010 were not surprising to him. “Anybody who could believe that this guy could operate in any other way than to cheat was deluding himself,” he asserted. “I never believed that when he came back that he would be any different to before, and here we have conclusive evidence of that.”
Legal action:
In January of this year Kimmage confirmed that the UCI’s current president Pat McQuaid and its former chief Hein Verbruggen had taken legal action against him, claiming to the Swiss District Court that he has caused them ‘annoyance’ and that their ‘reputation has been seriously damaged’ by articles.
The process is ongoing, but today’s announcement will raise questions about the UCI’s policies in the Armstrong years. For example, if USADA can show that Armstrong was indeed doping in 2009 and 2010, that will raise major questions about why the UCI’s self-praised biological passport system didn’t raise flags.
If earlier doping is proven, it will be a blow to a governing body which had close links to the rider, which was accused by Landis of protecting him, and which vouched for him on more than one occasion.
Kimmage believes the action was taken for very specific reasons. “There are two things about this,” he said. “The action against me was taken to keep me quiet, to shut me up. It wasn’t about money…it was about ‘we don’t like what Paul Kimmage is saying, we don’t like what Floyd Landis is saying.’
“The other thing this indicates is that everything Floyd Landis was saying is true. You read this report and there is no other conclusion than that Floyd Landis told the truth. Is it a coincidence that Floyd Landis and Paul Kimmage are the two people the UCI went after? Maybe not…”
The Irishman points out that there have been several reports of the close links between Armstrong and the UCI.
One matter Kimmage refers to dates back to the 2009 Tour de France, when UCI testers arrived at the hotel to test the Astana team ran at the time by Bruyneel. Rather than testing the riders immediately, as per usual standards, they accepted the team’s request and gave the riders almost an hour before the controls were carried out.
If the riders were indeed doping, this would have given them time to take measures to avoid a positive test.
Controversially, the governing body also accepted donations from Armstrong, but said the money was given for anti-doping funding. McQuaid has since conceded that the acceptance of that money was an error of judgement.
Kimmage is clear on what should have happened long before now. ‘People in responsibility could have stopped this a long time ago had they actually applied the rules. They weren’t applied,” he said. “It has taken Travis Tygart to do his job and to stand up for sport.
“Also, Betsy Andreu has been heroic, she told the truth. Emma O’Reilly told the truth. These are the people who deserve praise tonight; people who stood up for the sport."
Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12114 ... z1xmaTnHzs
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VIC 07
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Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
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EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
what would erythropietin do to a person once it's injected? why would someone who is very athletic and incredible as it is, use drugs? i don't see the mindset it takes for a guy like lance to use drugs or alcohol. if i was lance armstrong i'd be no less than 400 miles from any toxins anywhere anyway, which is actually how we all should be living
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
yup ... copy and paste from my MT thread post ...
1. he's NEVER had a bad day ... in winning 7 TDF's - the guy never had a bad day ... if you watch cycling - they all have bad days ... it's just the natural way the body responds to endurance sports ...
2. the witness account is overwhelming ... it's not heresay here ... it's tons of witnesses and his affiliation with doctors and people already convicted of doping infractions - see michael ferrari
3. read up on what the money his livestrong foundation goes to ... yeah - dude has made cancer awareness huge but he also rakes in a lot of d'oh and it's not all going to altruistic purposes
4. he has close ties with the UCI which forever was turning a blind eye to doping ...
5. remember - people like marion jones never failed a drug test either nor carl lewis nor a bunch of american athletes that we now know doped ... do not underestimate the power of money ...
like how is it that when a tester shows up to perform a random drug test on a team is that team given 1 hr to comply!?? ... it's against the rules and gives those people proven time to mask any doping ...
look at every one he was affiliated with ... bruyneel, ferrari, hincapie, armstrong, landis, andreu ... they have all fallen ... he's the only guy ...
I forgot to make this point in an earlier post. The science of cheating drug testing is usually as fast or faster than the science of detecting the cheaters. And the quality of your "medical & training" team depends a lot on how much money you have to spend. So for those that say all of the cyclists were equal, they were not. The teams and riders with less money and clout than Lance did not have the same performance enhancing drug advantages as Lance did.
yeah ... all i can say is lawyers have made a killing working for lance ...
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-ad ... -Rats.html
I hope Nike doesn't get hurt by all this!
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bassons ... is-overdue
I was going to post this last night, but didn't get around to it. Below is the text of the article. The Simeoni incident was the point where I started the downward slide to NOT being a Lance fan. Lance pretty much destroyed their (Simeoni & Bassons) cycling careers. He has made sure that Frankie Andreau has had a hard time keeping jobs as a cycling journalist. His masseuse, Emily ??, was harassed continually and publicly humiliated by Lance and his hired media thugs. He destroys people who cross him.
Bassons and Simeoni say Armstrong probe is overdue
By:
Daniel Friebe
Published:
June 14, 21:28,
Updated:
June 14, 21:46
American's old foes nonetheless welcome USADA efforts
Two men who clashed infamously with Lance Armstrong during his reign as the Tour de France’s dominant rider, Christophe Bassons and Filippo Simeoni, today welcomed news that Armstrong will face doping charges from the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA).
Bassons said that USADA’s action was “important” but also long overdue. “It’s a shame now that it’s coming 15 years after it all happened. It’s a shame because the evidence was there for years. I knew all along what was happening, so this doesn’t change anything for me. I don’t need fifteen pages of documents to tell me what I knew already,” Bassons told Cyclingnews.
Simeoni had similarly mixed feelings. The Italian said the possibility of Armstrong being condemned for doping left him “cold”. Simeoni also “can’t understand why suddenly now they’re investigating him, when for years he was allowed to do whatever he wanted.”
Armstrong last night dismissed the investigation as a “witch-hunt”. “I have never doped,” he affirmed in a statement.
Bassons and Simeoni had of course tackled Armstrong about doping, in their own ways, long before this latest round of allegations. In 1999, Bassons was riding the Tour de France for La Française des Jeux but also penning a daily column for Le Parisien. After writing that the peloton had been “shocked” by Armstrong’s stage-win at Sestriere, Bassons was confronted by Armstrong on the road to Alpe d'Huez the next day and invited to stop his innuendo or else leave the sport. Two years later, sure enough, Bassons quit professional cycling at age 27. He now works for the French Ministry of Youth and Sports.
Today Bassons expressed his hope that anyone found guilty in the USADA probe will be banished from cycling. He also, though, partly supported Armstrong’s claim that the seven-time Tour champion is being singled out, while those who have given evidence against him seem set to escape without penalty for their own misdeeds.
“I can understand why they’re offering plea bargains. History tells us that, unfortunately, that’s the only way people will talk. It also provides very valuable intelligence when they do that,” Bassons said. “What is wrong is giving them complete immunity in return for information. When there’s a crime, there has to be a punishment. If there’s not, what’s happening here sets a dangerous precedent.
“As for Armstrong’s entourage, if found guilty, they can’t be allowed back in to work with teams in the future,” he continued. “In general I’m against making doping a criminal offense, except when there is trafficking involved, but there’s no reason why we can’t rid the sport of people who have facilitated doping on this scale.”
On the UCI’s role in the affair, and in particular allegations that they were complicit with what USADA is calling the US Postal team’s “conspiracy”, Bassons called for a radical rethink of sports federations’ role in anti-doping.
“It’s that old chestnut: you can’t have the body in charge of promoting a sport also policing it. Give responsibility for anti-doping to WADA or national anti-doping agencies. But not to the federations,” he argued.
Filippo Simeoni was involved in his own notorious spat with Armstrong at the 2004 Tour de France. Two years earlier, Simeoni had testified before an Italian magistrate that doctor Michele Ferrari had advised him to use EPO and testosterone in 1997, a claim that prompted Armstrong to brand Simeoni an “absolute liar” in an interview with Le Monde in 2003. The following year at the Tour, Armstrong thwarted Simeoni’s breakaway attempts and allegedly threatened to “destroy” the Italian in a mid-race exchange on stage 18.
Simeoni now owns two bars in Sezze, between Rome and Naples. The 40-year-old claims to have “left cycling behind completely”, although he happened to be riding his bike when Cyclingnews reached him today.
While he applauded USADA’s efforts, he also said that whatever comes of the investigation will bring scant consolation.
“This all leaves me a bit cold now. I’ve taken myself out of that world completely,” he said. “I just can’t understand how justice has taken this long. There was always evidence, but nothing was done. Is what they've got that much more crushing now? Armstrong was allowed to do whatever he wanted for years. He was a superhero, untouchable. Now this. I suppose it just shows how the balance has shifted; before, I think there were forces greater than our understanding working to protect him; now there’s probably also a reason why they’ve decided to take him down.
“We’ll see how it goes,” Simeoni summed up. “I prefer not to dwell too much, because I have too many regrets if I do. This whole business really cut me down in my prime. Now it’d be nice to just get justice, although I still fear that this could rumble on for months if not years.”
if you read the article - they both clearly state that it doesn't really matter to them now ... lance destroyed their careers - they've moved on ...
i will trash them ... but how is that sour grapes?
it's not like these guys are clamouring for attention ... the outlet called them and they granted them interviews ... dude was 27 and talented and he was forced out of cycling by lance ... what do you want him to say?
was who banned? ...
and what does it have to do with sour grapes ...
they were essentially forced out because teams couldn't take them on ... threats and reprisals were in hand if anyone tried to take them on ...
this is why lance got away with stuff ... the UCI were complicit in the cover up of lance's doping ...
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1999/jul99/jul18.shtml an article from 1999. It does not contain a thorough explanation of what went on, but shows what happened to Bassons to cause him to leave the TDF and then retire.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bassons-wont-judge-landis-and-armstrong This is an awesome interview with Bassons. After reading that I became an admirer, even though I had never heard of him before. He is not an attention hound.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/07/24/1090464904320.html This is a 2004 article about the Simeoni incident at the TDF.
http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=8691 Much more extensive article from 2005 about Simeoni. The reason Lance attacked Simeoni was because Simeoni was testifying aginst Dr. Ferrari, the biggest doping doctor ever IMO. Dr. Ferrari was Lance's "coach" and provided Lance with the PED's. Lance got upset when Dr. Ferrari was threatened by Simeoni's testimony. Lance, in an interview, said Simeoni was a big liar. Simeoni sued Lance for defamation. That really pissed Lance off so he set out to teach Simeoni a lesson.
AUSTIN, TX—Following formal charges of performance-enhancing drug use brought by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency against Lance Armstrong on Wednesday, Armstrong's longtime bicycle has stepped forward to take full responsibility. "I can no longer keep silent—it was me all along," said the bicycle, admitting it had engaged in a full regimen of transfusions, EPO use, and other forms of blood manipulation throughout Armstrong's entire career. "I was doping for every one of Lance's and my Tours de France, and now it's time for me to face the consequences. I apologize for what this has done to my family, to my friends, and to Lance, my longtime partner." Armstrong refused comment on the issue, saying only that he maintained his own innocence and hoped his bicycle would get the help it obviously needed.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/lance-armstrongs-bike-it-was-me,28549/
While Lance does come across as a jack-wad if you betray his loyalty, there's one instance that defies this. In an interview with Chris Horner four or five years ago, he wasn't holding back and essentially accused the entire postal team of doping. Within a year or two after that, Lance hires Horner to be on his team with no bad blood between them and they appeared to get along just fine. I just thought it was interesting story, and as a Horner fan, after I read the interview I was thinking 'crap, how is this going to play out'.
I have mixed feelings about the Lance situation and I resist taking one side or the other and rather see how he's a tool and at the same time can be a decent guy.
i think what is clear now is that during lance's reign everyone was doping ... i find is both sad and funny how both ivan basso and jan ullrich are potential beneficiaries of lance being stripped of his tdf victories ... both those guys have been shown to use drugs ... the problem way back was that the UCI was responsible for testing and the reality is that you can't have the same body promote a sport and regulate it ... it's a conflict of interest ...
it is why lance got away with it for so long ... but the evidence is ample here ...