But considering the options he's had and the shit sand which he was served give him credit.
Add staying out of Colorado, Ability to buy healthcare, getting rid of DADT, supporting same sex couples(eventually).
Yes, Really. War Criminal.
Staying out of Colorado? Same sex marriage etc are those really his achievements? He allowed the people of Colorado to do what? To Do something that should not of been illegal in the first place. He can flip-flop about the herb now, but early in his presidency, he was very much against it (even for medical use). (should I bring up the stories, articles?)
We can soon eat McDonalds In cuba, Yay!
So he may not of sent thousands of ground troops into war, OMG, what a mighty good man. He Just bombed the shit out of them instead. Soooo much better. Supported corrupt governments and used their troops to slaughter and uphold corrupt systems/laws.
Are you even aware that Obama's (dems) actions/ policies partly led to the continued mess we had/have in Iraq. This notion that Obama ended the war in Iraq is a joke. A very bad joke.
YES, a WAR Criminal. A Hypocrite, an Uncle Tom to the giant Corporations. (I can continue?)
Think Obama did his best to limit death under his presidency and that can't be said for past republican presidents or new crop of challengers. To imply he's a war monger is flat out wrong. To be fair to Trump don't know his views.
Callen!
I'm NOT implying that Obama is a 'Warmonger'. A straight up 'War Criminal'? Well, that's another story. And one does NOT(really) need to be a 'Warmonger' in order to be a War Criminal. (But sure, they (obviously) can/do go hand in hand)
So Obama did his best to limit death? Sure less innocents were killed under Obama than Bush. So Let's give him another Peace Prize.
Does it make his crimes (and that of his party and followers) less horrific? The thousands of innocents that were killed by US/led air strikes, Obama and his "Targeted" Drone Strikes killing Children, creating more Terrorists. War Monger? I dunno, War Criminal, I do say so. and hope he one day stands trial. and I'm confident he would be found guilty. and THAT...THAT will (should) prevent future Presidents from doing the same shit, they will think deeply and clearly before they drop a bomb, spy on us, lie to us or whatever else it is they do/have done.
bravo. Pretty easy to not start another war when your country is dead set against one, is drowning in debt, and war-fatigued already. Instead, you rely on technology (drones), allies (Libya), and proxies (ISIS, neo nazis etc) to expand the 'theatre' and continue the imperial march toward world domination...or whatever.....meanwhile, BRICS and the rest of the developing world not already under your sphere of influence, are making plans to move forward without you.... It took 9/11 to get Bush the support he needed for his wars. I don't think Obama should be thanked for not taking the US into another GROUND war as he never really had an opportunity to do so.
We should just thank him for slaughtering less innocent people compared to his predecessor. *Roll Eyes*
I know it means nothing....but he campaigned on getting out of Iraq, no? Why would he have gone into Egypt? Not a strategically smart move to allow that country to fragment - suez is too important, and they've been pretty good to Israel. Not all that up to speed on Egypt, honestly...but I'm not sure where the opportunity to go to war there was? Libya was powerless enough to let a no-fly zone and a small NATO force take it out...He wouldn't risk reelection by going balls deep into Libya. Syria? Man....we know for a fact that the US has aided the opposition there, directly and by proxy, against Assad (many of the same ones they used in Libya), and that regime change / balkanization has been the plan for that country (along with Iraq) for years. So what are we thanking him for there? Propping up religious extremists instead of sending americans? That's a coward's war, and a big f'n gamble if you ask me. And again, like Egypt....even with a massive MSM PR campaign, it would have been hugely unpopular to get involved any more than we already were (and you can bet they were looking to control outcomes the second any uprising began). Iran? War with Iran will still happen eventually...I think it's about 8 years out.....or maybe second term for the next prez. Call me a cynic, but I think the negotiations are a stall tactic. They need to finish up in Syria before that starts. If we're reviewing his FP, Ukraine needs to be factored into the discussion as well. Let's not pretend that ANY of these conflicts happen without US guidance and/or acceptance.
Yes, war criminal. google it, man. lots of fodder. Ralph Nader. Politico. The Guardian. RT ( )...have all written about it.
I've gotta say....I find it tough to reconcile your support for obama's foreign policy, the sports/choosing a team analogies you use, and your knowledge of the military industrial complex; the system that controls these policies. You know as well as anyone that most of these moves are never what they seem to be; they are long-term, multi-administration plans. Strategery. Yes, it's almost a given that the approach taken by a neocon prez would have been bloodier....so ok, I will give him credit as a lesser evil....but lets not pretend Obama has changed anything in regards to US FP, aside from showing a little more restraint than (some) others have in the past.
Jury is still out on Cuba for me....on the surface I'm glad they're talking. But I haven't really looked into why. Maybe it's like the domestic stuff you listed: commendable, yes....but do I really have to give him credit for following public opinion? Has it come to that in our modern version of 'democracy'?
Think Obama did his best to limit death under his presidency and that can't be said for past republican presidents or new crop of challengers. To imply he's a war monger is flat out wrong. To be fair to Trump don't know his views.
Callen!
I'm NOT implying that Obama is a 'Warmonger'. A straight up 'War Criminal'? Well, that's another story. And one does NOT(really) need to be a 'Warmonger' in order to be a War Criminal. (But sure, they (obviously) can/do go hand in hand)
So Obama did his best to limit death? Sure less innocents were killed under Obama than Bush. So Let's give him another Peace Prize.
Does it make his crimes (and that of his party and followers) less horrific? The thousands of innocents that were killed by US/led air strikes, Obama and his "Targeted" Drone Strikes killing Children, creating more Terrorists. War Monger? I dunno, War Criminal, I do say so. and hope he one day stands trial. and I'm confident he would be found guilty. and THAT...THAT will (should) prevent future Presidents from doing the same shit, they will think deeply and clearly before they drop a bomb, spy on us, lie to us or whatever else it is they do/have done.
bravo. Pretty easy to not start another war when your country is dead set against one, is drowning in debt, and war-fatigued already. Instead, you rely on technology (drones), allies (Libya), and proxies (ISIS, neo nazis etc) to expand the 'theatre' and continue the imperial march toward world domination...or whatever.....meanwhile, BRICS and the rest of the developing world not already under your sphere of influence, are making plans to move forward without you.... It took 9/11 to get Bush the support he needed for his wars. I don't think Obama should be thanked for not taking the US into another GROUND war as he never really had an opportunity to do so.
We should just thank him for slaughtering less innocent people compared to his predecessor. *Roll Eyes*
ya, we're on the same page. just posted from my drafts before seeing your posts.
But considering the options he's had and the shit sand which he was served give him credit.
Add staying out of Colorado, Ability to buy healthcare, getting rid of DADT, supporting same sex couples(eventually).
Yes, Really. War Criminal.
Staying out of Colorado? Same sex marriage etc are those really his achievements? He allowed the people of Colorado to do what? To Do something that should not of been illegal in the first place. He can flip-flop about the herb now, but early in his presidency, he was very much against it (even for medical use). (should I bring up the stories, articles?)
We can soon eat McDonalds In cuba, Yay!
So he may not of sent thousands of ground troops into war, OMG, what a mighty good man. He Just bombed the shit out of them instead. Soooo much better. Supported corrupt governments and used their troops to slaughter and uphold corrupt systems/laws.
Are you even aware that Obama's (dems) actions/ policies partly led to the continued mess we had/have in Iraq. This notion that Obama ended the war in Iraq is a joke. A very bad joke.
YES, a WAR Criminal. A Hypocrite, an Uncle Tom to the giant Corporations. (I can continue?)
Okay this will be tough typing on my small phone.
Pot. Yes he told his administration to let it be. Get one of the right wingers in there and see what happens. What's Jebs stance ? I know. Yes obviously it should of never been illegal but guess what it was and still is.
Repealed DADT. AGREED with Supreme Court. Lot up the freakin White House! Come on. What's Cruz's position?
Wars. Already explained.
He repealed DADT. remember. If you think it's a mess due to withdrawal take your ass over and fight the Evildoers.
In a statement Tuesday, Trump called Clinton a “desperate” and “sad” candidate, asserting that she is going after him because he is now “her real competition.”
Trump, who claims to have fielded threats from escaped Mexican drug cartel leader Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman, said he is working with law enforcement on his security.
“We have officials all over the place, including right outside hanging out in trees,” he told reporters.
Donald Trump winning the Republican nomination would quickly alleviate my concern that Hillary Clinton is unelectable. She would suddenly become very electable.
But considering the options he's had and the shit sand which he was served give him credit.
Add staying out of Colorado, Ability to buy healthcare, getting rid of DADT, supporting same sex couples(eventually).
Yes, Really. War Criminal.
Staying out of Colorado? Same sex marriage etc are those really his achievements? He allowed the people of Colorado to do what? To Do something that should not of been illegal in the first place. He can flip-flop about the herb now, but early in his presidency, he was very much against it (even for medical use). (should I bring up the stories, articles?)
We can soon eat McDonalds In cuba, Yay!
So he may not of sent thousands of ground troops into war, OMG, what a mighty good man. He Just bombed the shit out of them instead. Soooo much better. Supported corrupt governments and used their troops to slaughter and uphold corrupt systems/laws.
Are you even aware that Obama's (dems) actions/ policies partly led to the continued mess we had/have in Iraq. This notion that Obama ended the war in Iraq is a joke. A very bad joke.
YES, a WAR Criminal. A Hypocrite, an Uncle Tom to the giant Corporations. (I can continue?)
Okay this will be tough typing on my small phone.
Pot. Yes he told his administration to let it be. Get one of the right wingers in there and see what happens. What's Jebs stance ? I know. Yes obviously it should of never been illegal but guess what it was and still is.
Repealed DADT. AGREED with Supreme Court. Lot up the freakin White House! Come on. What's Cruz's position?
Wars. Already explained.
He repealed DADT. remember. If you think it's a mess due to withdrawal take your ass over and fight the Evildoers.
At bus stop gotta get off.
Cruz's position? Jebs?...I think you are missing my point. I'm talking about Obama, and we return to others. "Well, they would be worse!" (Mentality) - and Because of the withdrawal? No, it has more to do with his support for the corrupt Iraqi government at the time and what they were doing to other Iraqis. etc
But again, who?...What? exactly are you defending? Obama? his policies? Corruption? I have no Idea at this point.
Look, I'd like to see him face charges for War Crimes. That will be a very good thing, as I have already explained. It sets a standard, an example.
Obama was too ignorant,stupid, cowardly to go after Bush and Cheney for Their War Crimes. His first mistake, not going after them. (Well documented)
But considering the options he's had and the shit sand which he was served give him credit.
Add staying out of Colorado, Ability to buy healthcare, getting rid of DADT, supporting same sex couples(eventually).
Yes, Really. War Criminal.
Staying out of Colorado? Same sex marriage etc are those really his achievements? He allowed the people of Colorado to do what? To Do something that should not of been illegal in the first place. He can flip-flop about the herb now, but early in his presidency, he was very much against it (even for medical use). (should I bring up the stories, articles?)
We can soon eat McDonalds In cuba, Yay!
So he may not of sent thousands of ground troops into war, OMG, what a mighty good man. He Just bombed the shit out of them instead. Soooo much better. Supported corrupt governments and used their troops to slaughter and uphold corrupt systems/laws.
Are you even aware that Obama's (dems) actions/ policies partly led to the continued mess we had/have in Iraq. This notion that Obama ended the war in Iraq is a joke. A very bad joke.
YES, a WAR Criminal. A Hypocrite, an Uncle Tom to the giant Corporations. (I can continue?)
Okay this will be tough typing on my small phone.
Pot. Yes he told his administration to let it be. Get one of the right wingers in there and see what happens. What's Jebs stance ? I know. Yes obviously it should of never been illegal but guess what it was and still is.
Repealed DADT. AGREED with Supreme Court. Lot up the freakin White House! Come on. What's Cruz's position?
Wars. Already explained.
He repealed DADT. remember. If you think it's a mess due to withdrawal take your ass over and fight the Evildoers.
At bus stop gotta get off.
Cruz's position? Jebs?...I think you are missing my point. I'm talking about Obama, and we return to others. "Well, they would be worse!" (Mentality) - and Because of the withdrawal? No, it has more to do with his support for the corrupt Iraqi government at the time and what they were doing to other Iraqis. etc
But again, who?...What? exactly are you defending? Obama? his policies? Corruption? I have no Idea at this point.
Look, I'd like to see him face charges for War Crimes. That will be a very good thing, as I have already explained. It sets a standard, an example.
Obama was too ignorant,stupid, cowardly to go after Bush and Cheney for Their War Crimes. His first mistake, not going after them. (Well documented)
No chance in Hell Obama would of gotten support for war crimes against Bush and company. Agree they should of been put in jail just wouldn't happen under any human.
Idealistic beliefs are great but it's not how the world works. There has been much pressure from the war mongers on current admin to insert ground troops in the various countries I mentioned. And all were rebuffed including again going back into Iraq.
Is Obama perfect, no. Does he have absolute power to do as you wish no. I'm a realist and for the hand he was dealt and the resistance put up by republicans think he's done a good job.
Good luck on your idealism. Hope we one day have no troops of weapons world over.
I know it means nothing....but he campaigned on getting out of Iraq, no? Why would he have gone into Egypt? Not a strategically smart move to allow that country to fragment - suez is too important, and they've been pretty good to Israel. Not all that up to speed on Egypt, honestly...but I'm not sure where the opportunity to go to war there was? Libya was powerless enough to let a no-fly zone and a small NATO force take it out...He wouldn't risk reelection by going balls deep into Libya. Syria? Man....we know for a fact that the US has aided the opposition there, directly and by proxy, against Assad (many of the same ones they used in Libya), and that regime change / balkanization has been the plan for that country (along with Iraq) for years. So what are we thanking him for there? Propping up religious extremists instead of sending americans? That's a coward's war, and a big f'n gamble if you ask me. And again, like Egypt....even with a massive MSM PR campaign, it would have been hugely unpopular to get involved any more than we already were (and you can bet they were looking to control outcomes the second any uprising began). Iran? War with Iran will still happen eventually...I think it's about 8 years out.....or maybe second term for the next prez. Call me a cynic, but I think the negotiations are a stall tactic. They need to finish up in Syria before that starts. If we're reviewing his FP, Ukraine needs to be factored into the discussion as well. Let's not pretend that ANY of these conflicts happen without US guidance and/or acceptance.
Yes, war criminal. google it, man. lots of fodder. Ralph Nader. Politico. The Guardian. RT ( )...have all written about it.
I've gotta say....I find it tough to reconcile your support for obama's foreign policy, the sports/choosing a team analogies you use, and your knowledge of the military industrial complex; the system that controls these policies. You know as well as anyone that most of these moves are never what they seem to be; they are long-term, multi-administration plans. Strategery. Yes, it's almost a given that the approach taken by a neocon prez would have been bloodier....so ok, I will give him credit as a lesser evil....but lets not pretend Obama has changed anything in regards to US FP, aside from showing a little more restraint than (some) others have in the past.
Jury is still out on Cuba for me....on the surface I'm glad they're talking. But I haven't really looked into why. Maybe it's like the domestic stuff you listed: commendable, yes....but do I really have to give him credit for following public opinion? Has it come to that in our modern version of 'democracy'?
The worlds a shitty place. There are no utopian solutions and people will be killed.
It's very easy to be critical and have ones views of how things should be. There are only so many things that can be controlled by president in his environment. This is r
History is going to look at Obama very favorably....whether you can admit it or not
We'll see. It is always so hard to gauge while it is still current. Somehow Lil' Bush has made a bit of a recovery in how he is viewed so one never knows how things will ultimately turn out in hindsight. Obama has done some good things, missed the boat on some things, didn't do some things he should have. Overall I think he's done a fine job domestically, and has shown he really doesn't have any game internationally. I believe his presidency will be viewed favorably as well, but I'm dropping the "very". I don't think he has done anything legacy worthy, but also didn't fuck us up (or at least hasn't yet).
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I would say that at a minimum Obamacare and the killing of bin Laden is legacy worthy. The supreme court ruling related to gay marriage is huge and has a lot to do with his leadership.
Also the recovery from the 2008 recession occurring on his watch
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I would say that at a minimum Obamacare and the killing of bin Laden is legacy worthy. The supreme court ruling related to gay marriage is huge and has a lot to do with his leadership.
Also the recovery from the 2008 recession occurring on his watch
I would say that at a minimum Obamacare and the killing of bin Laden is legacy worthy. The supreme court ruling related to gay marriage is huge and has a lot to do with his leadership.
Also the recovery from the 2008 recession occurring on his watch
It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Obamacare was a step in the right direction, but has put a tremendous burden on the middle class who once were able to secure health insurance at affordable rates, but now have worse coverage for more money out of pocket. It needs some work. He certainly helped low income people afford insurance for the first time, so that was good. Killing Bin Laden may well be a legacy. Gay marriage and legalization of MJ were movements by citizens in states, and the feds have been following along playing catch up, so I don't give Obama much credit for that. He didn't even come to support gay marriage until his daughter convinced him.
And the recovery from the 2008 recession was a good thing. I'm not sure exactly what he did other than continue the bailouts started by the Bush administration. Congress has put more controls in place, but I think the crooks on Wall Street got "get out of jail free" cards. Heads should have rolled. But we did recover. Whether that was actually due to Obama is debatable, but it did occur on his watch. Again, not sure if that will be a legacy, or a coincidence.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
History is going to look at Obama very favorably....whether you can admit it or not
We'll see. It is always so hard to gauge while it is still current. Somehow Lil' Bush has made a bit of a recovery in how he is viewed so one never knows how things will ultimately turn out in hindsight. Obama has done some good things, missed the boat on some things, didn't do some things he should have. Overall I think he's done a fine job domestically, and has shown he really doesn't have any game internationally. I believe his presidency will be viewed favorably as well, but I'm dropping the "very". I don't think he has done anything legacy worthy, but also didn't fuck us up (or at least hasn't yet).
Healthcare may end up being a legacy item.
And yeah he didn't do anything in particular but support for equal rights for gays (DADT) and not being an Ashcroft on MJ will be mentioned.
I would say that at a minimum Obamacare and the killing of bin Laden is legacy worthy. The supreme court ruling related to gay marriage is huge and has a lot to do with his leadership.
Also the recovery from the 2008 recession occurring on his watch
Cuba.
Potentially this Iran deal.
And he has another year and a half still to go.
yep....exactly
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
If a Republican had been in office when bin Laden was killed, the celebration would have been "Mission Accomplished" times twenty. It would have put the Triumphs staged by Roman Generals to shame.
I would say that at a minimum Obamacare and the killing of bin Laden is legacy worthy. The supreme court ruling related to gay marriage is huge and has a lot to do with his leadership.
Also the recovery from the 2008 recession occurring on his watch
It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Obamacare was a step in the right direction, but has put a tremendous burden on the middle class who once were able to secure health insurance at affordable rates, but now have worse coverage for more money out of pocket. It needs some work. He certainly helped low income people afford insurance for the first time, so that was good. Killing Bin Laden may well be a legacy. Gay marriage and legalization of MJ were movements by citizens in states, and the feds have been following along playing catch up, so I don't give Obama much credit for that. He didn't even come to support gay marriage until his daughter convinced him.
And the recovery from the 2008 recession was a good thing. I'm not sure exactly what he did other than continue the bailouts started by the Bush administration. Congress has put more controls in place, but I think the crooks on Wall Street got "get out of jail free" cards. Heads should have rolled. But we did recover. Whether that was actually due to Obama is debatable, but it did occur on his watch. Again, not sure if that will be a legacy, or a coincidence.
My experience is different on AHC. Positive and available. Agree should be improved. On equal rights regardless of how he came about or even if he waited till it was safe, wouldn't if happened under Republican president.
I would say that at a minimum Obamacare and the killing of bin Laden is legacy worthy. The supreme court ruling related to gay marriage is huge and has a lot to do with his leadership.
Also the recovery from the 2008 recession occurring on his watch
It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Obamacare was a step in the right direction, but has put a tremendous burden on the middle class who once were able to secure health insurance at affordable rates, but now have worse coverage for more money out of pocket. It needs some work. He certainly helped low income people afford insurance for the first time, so that was good. Killing Bin Laden may well be a legacy. Gay marriage and legalization of MJ were movements by citizens in states, and the feds have been following along playing catch up, so I don't give Obama much credit for that. He didn't even come to support gay marriage until his daughter convinced him.
And the recovery from the 2008 recession was a good thing. I'm not sure exactly what he did other than continue the bailouts started by the Bush administration. Congress has put more controls in place, but I think the crooks on Wall Street got "get out of jail free" cards. Heads should have rolled. But we did recover. Whether that was actually due to Obama is debatable, but it did occur on his watch. Again, not sure if that will be a legacy, or a coincidence.
Healthcare was never affordable prior to Obamacare. I'm not sure what situation you were in to make that comment but as a self employed middle class employer I call bullshit on that. My premiums consistently went up 20-25%/year until 2009 or so when healthcare reform was being discussed. It still increases every year but no where in the range that it did before.
RElated to the recovery....he definitely had a hand in keeping the Bush tax increases in tact. The GOP wanted to roll them back and he wouldn't let them. The deficits would have been huge without that. And get this....unemployment and growth CONTINUED even though those tax increases went into effect....imagine that.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I would say that at a minimum Obamacare and the killing of bin Laden is legacy worthy. The supreme court ruling related to gay marriage is huge and has a lot to do with his leadership.
Also the recovery from the 2008 recession occurring on his watch
It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Obamacare was a step in the right direction, but has put a tremendous burden on the middle class who once were able to secure health insurance at affordable rates, but now have worse coverage for more money out of pocket. It needs some work. He certainly helped low income people afford insurance for the first time, so that was good. Killing Bin Laden may well be a legacy. Gay marriage and legalization of MJ were movements by citizens in states, and the feds have been following along playing catch up, so I don't give Obama much credit for that. He didn't even come to support gay marriage until his daughter convinced him.
And the recovery from the 2008 recession was a good thing. I'm not sure exactly what he did other than continue the bailouts started by the Bush administration. Congress has put more controls in place, but I think the crooks on Wall Street got "get out of jail free" cards. Heads should have rolled. But we did recover. Whether that was actually due to Obama is debatable, but it did occur on his watch. Again, not sure if that will be a legacy, or a coincidence.
Healthcare was never affordable prior to Obamacare. I'm not sure what situation you were in to make that comment but as a self employed middle class employer I call bullshit on that. My premiums consistently went up 20-25%/year until 2009 or so when healthcare reform was being discussed. It still increases every year but no where in the range that it did before.
RElated to the recovery....he definitely had a hand in keeping the Bush tax increases in tact. The GOP wanted to roll them back and he wouldn't let them. The deficits would have been huge without that. And get this....unemployment and growth CONTINUED even though those tax increases went into effect....imagine that.
I didn't intend for this to turn into any sort of Obama bashing on my part, BTW. As I said, I think he's doing a fine job. I just don't believe he'll be remembered as one of the greats.
You can call bullshit on my experiences with health insurance, but in my situation, and those of most of my friends and peers, employer provided health insurance has been affected, and mostly negatively. Premiums rose, co-pays rose, prescription co-pays rose, deductibles rose. A couple of friends with individual policies were informed that their policies would not renew. Remember when there was backtracking by Obama after his promise of "if you're happy with your health insurance, keep it!" schtick? Many people were happy (relatively speaking) with their health insurance, and suddenly no longer had access to it. Again, I think it was a good thing that people who previously couldn't afford health insurance now have access. I'm just pointing out that it was not some sort of unmitigated success and legacy worthy. It was a good start and will need some work. Especially if we are still calling it the Affordable Healthcare Act, which to many of us is a misnomer. I'm glad you have had a different experience with it, and again am glad others can now get insurance they previously could not.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Donald does seem to be building momentum. This is gonna be fun.
Haha, back on track. It is going to be fun to watch. Donald will never be able to win the party nomination, much less the presidency, but he is certainly providing entertainment, and much more importantly, forcing discussion of issues. He's a kook in some ways, but he is making both Republicans and Democrats think about and talk about issues. For an elite, arrogant, rich guy, it seems like he's got a populist vibe going somehow. I will be curious to see how he does in the debates. I don't think he's used to being told what to do, and is usually the one giving direction, so who knows if he can even follow the rules of the debate? I do imagine him standing there smirking while some of the other Republican candidates start flushing and sweating.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I would say that at a minimum Obamacare and the killing of bin Laden is legacy worthy. The supreme court ruling related to gay marriage is huge and has a lot to do with his leadership.
Also the recovery from the 2008 recession occurring on his watch
It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Obamacare was a step in the right direction, but has put a tremendous burden on the middle class who once were able to secure health insurance at affordable rates, but now have worse coverage for more money out of pocket. It needs some work. He certainly helped low income people afford insurance for the first time, so that was good. Killing Bin Laden may well be a legacy. Gay marriage and legalization of MJ were movements by citizens in states, and the feds have been following along playing catch up, so I don't give Obama much credit for that. He didn't even come to support gay marriage until his daughter convinced him.
And the recovery from the 2008 recession was a good thing. I'm not sure exactly what he did other than continue the bailouts started by the Bush administration. Congress has put more controls in place, but I think the crooks on Wall Street got "get out of jail free" cards. Heads should have rolled. But we did recover. Whether that was actually due to Obama is debatable, but it did occur on his watch. Again, not sure if that will be a legacy, or a coincidence.
Healthcare was never affordable prior to Obamacare. I'm not sure what situation you were in to make that comment but as a self employed middle class employer I call bullshit on that. My premiums consistently went up 20-25%/year until 2009 or so when healthcare reform was being discussed. It still increases every year but no where in the range that it did before.
RElated to the recovery....he definitely had a hand in keeping the Bush tax increases in tact. The GOP wanted to roll them back and he wouldn't let them. The deficits would have been huge without that. And get this....unemployment and growth CONTINUED even though those tax increases went into effect....imagine that.
I didn't intend for this to turn into any sort of Obama bashing on my part, BTW. As I said, I think he's doing a fine job. I just don't believe he'll be remembered as one of the greats.
You can call bullshit on my experiences with health insurance, but in my situation, and those of most of my friends and peers, employer provided health insurance has been affected, and mostly negatively. Premiums rose, co-pays rose, prescription co-pays rose, deductibles rose. A couple of friends with individual policies were informed that their policies would not renew. Remember when there was backtracking by Obama after his promise of "if you're happy with your health insurance, keep it!" schtick? Many people were happy (relatively speaking) with their health insurance, and suddenly no longer had access to it. Again, I think it was a good thing that people who previously couldn't afford health insurance now have access. I'm just pointing out that it was not some sort of unmitigated success and legacy worthy. It was a good start and will need some work. Especially if we are still calling it the Affordable Healthcare Act, which to many of us is a misnomer. I'm glad you have had a different experience with it, and again am glad others can now get insurance they previously could not.
Yes if the plan was subpar and had to catch up to the minimum requirements there would definitely be adjustments. I agree that sucks. But it really had to happen to get any type of meaningful reform. They are still putting the screws to us....hopefully the critics were right and Obamacare is the first step toward single payer.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Comments
War criminal? . Really?
Negotiating with Iran. Talking to Cuba.
Shit list goes on and on.
Perfect no. Drones killing innocents sure. TPP treaty well?
But considering the options he's had and the shit sand which he was served give him credit.
Add staying out of Colorado, Ability to buy healthcare, getting rid of DADT, supporting same sex couples(eventually).
Staying out of Colorado? Same sex marriage etc are those really his achievements? He allowed the people of Colorado to do what? To Do something that should not of been illegal in the first place. He can flip-flop about the herb now, but early in his presidency, he was very much against it (even for medical use). (should I bring up the stories, articles?)
We can soon eat McDonalds In cuba, Yay!
So he may not of sent thousands of ground troops into war, OMG, what a mighty good man. He Just bombed the shit out of them instead. Soooo much better. Supported corrupt governments and used their troops to slaughter and uphold corrupt systems/laws.
Are you even aware that Obama's (dems) actions/ policies partly led to the continued mess we had/have in Iraq. This notion that Obama ended the war in Iraq is a joke. A very bad joke.
YES, a WAR Criminal. A Hypocrite, an Uncle Tom to the giant Corporations. (I can continue?)
Why would he have gone into Egypt? Not a strategically smart move to allow that country to fragment - suez is too important, and they've been pretty good to Israel. Not all that up to speed on Egypt, honestly...but I'm not sure where the opportunity to go to war there was?
Libya was powerless enough to let a no-fly zone and a small NATO force take it out...He wouldn't risk reelection by going balls deep into Libya.
Syria? Man....we know for a fact that the US has aided the opposition there, directly and by proxy, against Assad (many of the same ones they used in Libya), and that regime change / balkanization has been the plan for that country (along with Iraq) for years. So what are we thanking him for there? Propping up religious extremists instead of sending americans? That's a coward's war, and a big f'n gamble if you ask me. And again, like Egypt....even with a massive MSM PR campaign, it would have been hugely unpopular to get involved any more than we already were (and you can bet they were looking to control outcomes the second any uprising began).
Iran? War with Iran will still happen eventually...I think it's about 8 years out.....or maybe second term for the next prez. Call me a cynic, but I think the negotiations are a stall tactic. They need to finish up in Syria before that starts.
If we're reviewing his FP, Ukraine needs to be factored into the discussion as well.
Let's not pretend that ANY of these conflicts happen without US guidance and/or acceptance.
Yes, war criminal. google it, man. lots of fodder. Ralph Nader. Politico. The Guardian. RT (
I've gotta say....I find it tough to reconcile your support for obama's foreign policy, the sports/choosing a team analogies you use, and your knowledge of the military industrial complex; the system that controls these policies. You know as well as anyone that most of these moves are never what they seem to be; they are long-term, multi-administration plans. Strategery. Yes, it's almost a given that the approach taken by a neocon prez would have been bloodier....so ok, I will give him credit as a lesser evil....but lets not pretend Obama has changed anything in regards to US FP, aside from showing a little more restraint than (some) others have in the past.
Jury is still out on Cuba for me....on the surface I'm glad they're talking. But I haven't really looked into why. Maybe it's like the domestic stuff you listed: commendable, yes....but do I really have to give him credit for following public opinion? Has it come to that in our modern version of 'democracy'?
Pot. Yes he told his administration to let it be. Get one of the right wingers in there and see what happens. What's Jebs stance ? I know. Yes obviously it should of never been illegal but guess what it was and still is.
Repealed DADT. AGREED with Supreme Court. Lot up the freakin White House! Come on. What's Cruz's position?
Wars. Already explained.
He repealed DADT. remember. If you think it's a mess due to withdrawal take your ass over and fight the Evildoers.
At bus stop gotta get off.
Trump, who claims to have fielded threats from escaped Mexican drug cartel leader Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman, said he is working with law enforcement on his security.
“We have officials all over the place, including right outside hanging out in trees,” he told reporters.
WOOT
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
-
and Because of the withdrawal? No, it has more to do with his support for the corrupt Iraqi government at the time and what they were doing to other Iraqis. etc
But again, who?...What? exactly are you defending? Obama? his policies? Corruption? I have no Idea at this point.
Look, I'd like to see him face charges for War Crimes. That will be a very good thing, as I have already explained. It sets a standard, an example.
Obama was too ignorant,stupid, cowardly to go after Bush and Cheney for Their War Crimes. His first mistake, not going after them. (Well documented)
Nazis make surprise appearance in Donald Trump's campaign ad
Trump campaign blames an intern for the inclusion of men wearing Nazi uniforms
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Idealistic beliefs are great but it's not how the world works. There has been much pressure from the war mongers on current admin to insert ground troops in the various countries I mentioned. And all were rebuffed including again going back into Iraq.
Is Obama perfect, no. Does he have absolute power to do as you wish no. I'm a realist and for the hand he was dealt and the resistance put up by republicans think he's done a good job.
Good luck on your idealism. Hope we one day have no troops of weapons world over.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
It's very easy to be critical and have ones views of how things should be. There are only so many things that can be controlled by president in his environment. This is r
Give credit as you see fit.
Also the recovery from the 2008 recession occurring on his watch
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Potentially this Iran deal.
And he has another year and a half still to go.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
And the recovery from the 2008 recession was a good thing. I'm not sure exactly what he did other than continue the bailouts started by the Bush administration. Congress has put more controls in place, but I think the crooks on Wall Street got "get out of jail free" cards. Heads should have rolled. But we did recover. Whether that was actually due to Obama is debatable, but it did occur on his watch. Again, not sure if that will be a legacy, or a coincidence.
And yeah he didn't do anything in particular but support for equal rights for gays (DADT) and not being an Ashcroft on MJ will be mentioned.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Obama...just another day on his watch.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
RElated to the recovery....he definitely had a hand in keeping the Bush tax increases in tact. The GOP wanted to roll them back and he wouldn't let them. The deficits would have been huge without that. And get this....unemployment and growth CONTINUED even though those tax increases went into effect....imagine that.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
You can call bullshit on my experiences with health insurance, but in my situation, and those of most of my friends and peers, employer provided health insurance has been affected, and mostly negatively. Premiums rose, co-pays rose, prescription co-pays rose, deductibles rose. A couple of friends with individual policies were informed that their policies would not renew. Remember when there was backtracking by Obama after his promise of "if you're happy with your health insurance, keep it!" schtick? Many people were happy (relatively speaking) with their health insurance, and suddenly no longer had access to it. Again, I think it was a good thing that people who previously couldn't afford health insurance now have access. I'm just pointing out that it was not some sort of unmitigated success and legacy worthy. It was a good start and will need some work. Especially if we are still calling it the Affordable Healthcare Act, which to many of us is a misnomer. I'm glad you have had a different experience with it, and again am glad others can now get insurance they previously could not.
Donald does seem to be building momentum. This is gonna be fun.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana