Ooooooohhh, a few stories of teacher testimonials....gives me the shivers.
You're not changing anyone's mind like no one will get you to open your eyes that the kids do NOT come first in education. It's certainly a fact that the U.S. public education FAILS our kids, yet you refuse to admit that, address that, or even acknowledge that. Keep googling more stories... whatever. :roll:
It's absolutely baffling to me how you have zero interest in reality. :?
It's also baffling to me how you think you know the lives and hearts of everyone else better than they do.
And I have NEVER said the U.S. public education system doesn't fail our kids, so I don't know how you can claim that I refuse to admit that. All I have talked about at all is your bogus claim that teachers across the country, as a whole, are selfish and well-compensated. I would assert, however, that it's YOU and people like you with their disinterest in reality and their belief that teachers have to be screwed for kids to succeed who are at the root of why our education system sucks in this country. And I believe that claim is supported by the data showing that students get better educations in countries where teachers are valued.
Did a teacher hurt you as a child or something? :?
Ooooooohhh, a few stories of teacher testimonials....gives me the shivers.
You're not changing anyone's mind like no one will get you to open your eyes that the kids do NOT come first in education. It's certainly a fact that the U.S. public education FAILS our kids, yet you refuse to admit that, address that, or even acknowledge that. Keep googling more stories... whatever. :roll:
It's absolutely baffling to me how you have zero interest in reality. :?
It's also baffling to me how you think you know the lives and hearts of everyone else better than they do.
And I have NEVER said the U.S. public education system doesn't fail our kids, so I don't know how you can claim that I refuse to admit that. All I have talked about at all is your bogus claim that teachers across the country, as a whole, are selfish and well-compensated. I would assert, however, that it's YOU and people like you with their disinterest in reality and their belief that teachers have to be screwed for kids to succeed who are at the root of why our education system sucks in this country. And I believe that claim is supported by the data showing that students get better educations in countries where teachers are valued.
Did a teacher hurt you as a child or something? :?
Yet you've never even acknowledged the kids, only the teachers, throughout this whole thread. What a joke.
Keep the rudeness coming... You're always good at that! :roll:
Yet you've never even acknowledged the kids, only the teachers, throughout this whole thread. What a joke.
Keep the rudeness coming... You're always good at that! :roll:
Though I have acknowledged the kids by saying what I think is in their best interest, this conversation is about the teachers. YOU have been talking about the teachers and I have been responding to your comments about the teachers.
Yet you've never even acknowledged the kids, only the teachers, throughout this whole thread. What a joke.
Keep the rudeness coming... You're always good at that! :roll:
Though I have acknowledged the kids by saying what I think is in their best interest, this conversation is about the teachers. YOU have been talking about the teachers and I have been responding to your comments about the teachers.
And please note your tone as well. :roll:
Bullshit have you acknowledged the kids' interests. You're not kidding anyone here. THIS conversation is about EDUCATION CUTS, which means what's being cut from the students and the school districts. Teachers are part of that conversation and you've veered not at all very far from what you think about teachers. You don't have kids, you consider your time in school years ago, to being aware of 'student interests', and have said nothing about students in general other than "Teacher unions look out for the kids". So when you feel like talking about the big issue here, EDUCATION CUTS, you let us know.
Ooooooohhh, a few stories of teacher testimonials....gives me the shivers.
You're not changing anyone's mind like no one will get you to open your eyes that the kids do NOT come first in education. It's certainly a fact that the U.S. public education FAILS our kids, yet you refuse to admit that, address that, or even acknowledge that. Keep googling more stories... whatever. :roll:
I'm actually not even sure what you're really saying here. Are you saying that tens, hundreds, thousands, or more people who don't know each other can independently say that they work outside the hours you have claimed, make less money that you have claimed, care more than you have claimed - and your response is just that they are all lying?? Here's what I'm understanding you to be saying, so please correct me if I'm wrong:
Person #1 (X 100,000): I work on evenings and weekends preparing lesson plans.
Jeanwah: No you don't.
Person #2: I attend mandatory meetings in the summers.
Jeanwah: I don't believe you.
Person #3: I provide social support in addition to just textbook educations.
Jeanwah: Post a link & prove it.
Person #4: I use my own money to pay for supplies for the classroom.
Jeanwah: That's not true.
Person #5: I get paid x amount of money.
Jeanwah: That can't be true since I know someone in another state who makes more.
Person #6: The state legislature has voted for my paychecks to be decreased.
Jeanwah: I know more about your paycheck than you do and I say that's bullshit.
Person #7: I care about and sacrifice for my students.
Jeanwah: No you don't.
Ooooooohhh, a few stories of teacher testimonials....gives me the shivers.
You're not changing anyone's mind like no one will get you to open your eyes that the kids do NOT come first in education. It's certainly a fact that the U.S. public education FAILS our kids, yet you refuse to admit that, address that, or even acknowledge that. Keep googling more stories... whatever. :roll:
I'm actually not even sure what you're really saying here. Are you saying that tens, hundreds, thousands, or more people who don't know each other can independently say that they work outside the hours you have claimed, make less money that you have claimed, care more than you have claimed - and your response is just that they are all lying?? Here's what I'm understanding you to be saying, so please correct me if I'm wrong:
Person #1 (X 100,000): I work on evenings and weekends preparing lesson plans.
Jeanwah: No you don't.
Person #2: I attend mandatory meetings in the summers.
Jeanwah: I don't believe you.
Person #3: I provide social support in addition to just textbook educations.
Jeanwah: Post a link & prove it.
Person #4: I use my own money to pay for supplies for the classroom.
Jeanwah: That's not true.
Person #5: I get paid x amount of money.
Jeanwah: That can't be true since I know someone in another state who makes more.
Person #6: The state legislature has voted for my paychecks to be decreased.
Jeanwah: I know more about your paycheck than you do and I say that's bullshit.
Person #7: I care about and sacrifice for my students.
Jeanwah: No you don't.
Et cetera.
:? :?
And this just verifies my point. That you refuse to realize that your preoccupation with the teachers prevents you from seeing the real issue: the KIDS!
Yet you've never even acknowledged the kids, only the teachers, throughout this whole thread. What a joke.
Keep the rudeness coming... You're always good at that! :roll:
Though I have acknowledged the kids by saying what I think is in their best interest, this conversation is about the teachers. YOU have been talking about the teachers and I have been responding to your comments about the teachers.
And please note your tone as well. :roll:
Bullshit have you acknowledged the kids' interests. You're not kidding anyone here. THIS conversation is about EDUCATION CUTS, which means what's being cut from the students and the school districts. Teachers are part of that conversation and you've veered not at all very far from what you think about teachers. You don't have kids, you consider your time in school years ago, to being aware of 'student interests', and have said nothing about students in general other than "Teacher unions look out for the kids". So when you feel like talking about the big issue here, EDUCATION CUTS, you let us know.
Do I really need to recap for you? You said "It's really all about [the teachers], and not the kids," to which I replied, "I couldn't agree less with that gross generalization." And that is what our conversation has been about. YOU are the one who steered the conversation in this direction, so I don't think you really have room to give me shit for following your lead.
Regardless, how on earth can we even talk about the "big issue" when you are narrowly focused on condemning teachers (& their unions) for all the ills of the education system?? It's not possible to solve any problem when starting from a false premise. How about this... when you're ready to base the discussion of this issue in reality, you let "us" know.
Ooooooohhh, a few stories of teacher testimonials....gives me the shivers.
You're not changing anyone's mind like no one will get you to open your eyes that the kids do NOT come first in education. It's certainly a fact that the U.S. public education FAILS our kids, yet you refuse to admit that, address that, or even acknowledge that. Keep googling more stories... whatever. :roll:
I'm actually not even sure what you're really saying here. Are you saying that tens, hundreds, thousands, or more people who don't know each other can independently say that they work outside the hours you have claimed, make less money that you have claimed, care more than you have claimed - and your response is just that they are all lying?? Here's what I'm understanding you to be saying, so please correct me if I'm wrong:
Person #1 (X 100,000): I work on evenings and weekends preparing lesson plans.
Jeanwah: No you don't.
Person #2: I attend mandatory meetings in the summers.
Jeanwah: I don't believe you.
Person #3: I provide social support in addition to just textbook educations.
Jeanwah: Post a link & prove it.
Person #4: I use my own money to pay for supplies for the classroom.
Jeanwah: That's not true.
Person #5: I get paid x amount of money.
Jeanwah: That can't be true since I know someone in another state who makes more.
Person #6: The state legislature has voted for my paychecks to be decreased.
Jeanwah: I know more about your paycheck than you do and I say that's bullshit.
Person #7: I care about and sacrifice for my students.
Jeanwah: No you don't.
Et cetera.
:? :?
And this just verifies my point. That you refuse to realize that your preoccupation with the teachers prevents you from seeing the real issue: the KIDS!
Hmm... as I've already said, I am not refusing to talk about kids. I have been RESPONDING to YOUR issue: the teachers. You can't just change the subject and then, when you have no good response, change it back again - and try to blame it on me! Clever trick though.
Regardless, you completely dodged my question. Are you saying that all these people are lying??
Sorry for the long-ass post, but I just wanted to point out that my mom's story is FAR from unusual or unbelievable.
Also, did I mention that my teacher friend actually had to stop by his classroom on his way to the emergency room last week, to arrange for coverage & take care of the kids until the sub arrived?
I have no answers for teachers plight, maybe all teachers from coast to coast need to leave the profession and then maybe government will compensate you better. I know if I was a young educated professional teacher and thought I was not being compensated fairly or I thought I could do better pay wise I would probably change professions. Thats just me though.
They could move to Ontario, teachers here are not hurting financially.
I think it's pretty hard to go through all that schooling and incur student loans and then turn around and quit your job and go back to school, especially if you have a family to support. :(
Here in Ontario it's a BA or higher and a year of teacher's college. Surely the BA is worth something. Do guidance councilors not warn students that teaching has poor pay and benefits, so students know that they should consider other options?
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I have no answers for teachers plight, maybe all teachers from coast to coast need to leave the profession and then maybe government will compensate you better. I know if I was a young educated professional teacher and thought I was not being compensated fairly or I thought I could do better pay wise I would probably change professions. Thats just me though.
They could move to Ontario, teachers here are not hurting financially.
I think it's pretty hard to go through all that schooling and incur student loans and then turn around and quit your job and go back to school, especially if you have a family to support. :(
Here in Ontario it's a BA or higher and a year of teacher's college. Surely the BA is worth something. Do guidance councilors not warn students that teaching has poor pay and benefits, so students know that they should consider other options?
Yeah, they know. But, contrary to popular belief, they go into it to help the kids, not for the money.
Ooooooohhh, a few stories of teacher testimonials....gives me the shivers.
You're not changing anyone's mind like no one will get you to open your eyes that the kids do NOT come first in education. It's certainly a fact that the U.S. public education FAILS our kids, yet you refuse to admit that, address that, or even acknowledge that. Keep googling more stories... whatever. :roll:
I'm actually not even sure what you're really saying here. Are you saying that tens, hundreds, thousands, or more people who don't know each other can independently say that they work outside the hours you have claimed, make less money that you have claimed, care more than you have claimed - and your response is just that they are all lying?? Here's what I'm understanding you to be saying, so please correct me if I'm wrong:
Person #1 (X 100,000): I work on evenings and weekends preparing lesson plans.
Jeanwah: No you don't.
Person #2: I attend mandatory meetings in the summers.
Jeanwah: I don't believe you.
Person #3: I provide social support in addition to just textbook educations.
Jeanwah: Post a link & prove it.
Person #4: I use my own money to pay for supplies for the classroom.
Jeanwah: That's not true.
Person #5: I get paid x amount of money.
Jeanwah: That can't be true since I know someone in another state who makes more.
Person #6: The state legislature has voted for my paychecks to be decreased.
Jeanwah: I know more about your paycheck than you do and I say that's bullshit.
Person #7: I care about and sacrifice for my students.
Jeanwah: No you don't.
Et cetera.
:? :?
And this just verifies my point. That you refuse to realize that your preoccupation with the teachers prevents you from seeing the real issue: the KIDS!
W/O taking care of the teachers talking about the kids is moot.
My .02 is that it IS the teachers along with school administrators. The schools are operated very poorly and the school employees seem to care more about early release days, snow days, spring break, getting out for summer break as soon as possible etc. than anything else.
I really do find it difficult to believe that people can honestly try to make the argument that teachers are underpaid.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I think it's pretty hard to go through all that schooling and incur student loans and then turn around and quit your job and go back to school, especially if you have a family to support. :(
Here in Ontario it's a BA or higher and a year of teacher's college. Surely the BA is worth something. Do guidance councilors not warn students that teaching has poor pay and benefits, so students know that they should consider other options?
Yeah, they know. But, contrary to popular belief, they go into it to help the kids, not for the money.
Ha! MANY young people go into it because it is a part-time job with summers and holidays off.
...Trying to blame me when you feel cornered. You really are funny.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,437
Wow- lots of heated discussion here!
Another 2 cents from me: When I worked as a program assitant at our local Community College the standard joke among instructors was this:
"Administrators tend to believe, 'If it wasn't for those damn students we could get some work done around here.'"
This was told to me on two separate occasions by two of our finest instructors.
Oh, and guess who got the highest pay?
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
What everyone needs to understand is that New York and Ontario don't represent education systems everywhere. Of the many, many teachers I've known, I have NEVER known a teacher who made even close to 80 grand, even by the time they retired. The teachers I know can barely afford to retire (unless their spouses have better jobs).
wow both our mom's are teachers too? we keep getting more and more in common
anyways, I don't know any public school teacher that makes 80 either... and certainly not after 11 years! from what I can see the only people who make those kinds of figures are the people in the highest positions.
my mom is an ESL teacher who works through a government program, she makes a little higher than those in the public school but she's also been with the school board for about 30 years. anyways, thanks in part to Harper's settlement program cuts she and about 40 other teachers will be losing their jobs.
What everyone needs to understand is that New York and Ontario don't represent education systems everywhere. Of the many, many teachers I've known, I have NEVER known a teacher who made even close to 80 grand, even by the time they retired. The teachers I know can barely afford to retire (unless their spouses have better jobs).
After 30 years of teaching, my mom still makes only about $40,000/year. The state legislature controls educators' annual raises (including mine) and they have not given us one for the past 4 or so years. Instead, they have taken money from our paychecks every year for the past 3 years so the state could use that money for its general fund. The only way for my mom to get a raise is to go back to school and get a master's degree. (She wanted to get one when she did her bachelor's and nearly had enough credits, but her academic advisors and professors told her it would be useless & she had two babies to raise & pay for, so she went straight to work instead.) Since retirement benefits are a percentage of your annual salary averaged over the past few year (and they're trying to make that time frame longer so we get less), she feels like she can't afford to retire unless she gets a master's. And they're telling us now that our retirement fund is facing solvency issues. Oh, and let's not forget that much of the money it takes just to run the classroom - paper & ink for the printer, the printer itself, etc. - comes out of her pocket.
Many of the teachers I have known have had to get second jobs while working and get jobs after retirement just to make ends meet. You know those old people who greet you at Walmart? Start asking around and you'll find that many of them are retired teachers.
My mom gets to work at 7 every day and school lets out around 2:30, but she frequently stays until 5-10 o'clock at night and goes in on the weekends. (I'd like to know, lukin2006, whether or not YOU were at school during nights and weekends and, if not, how can you say anyone else wasn't?) And just because the kids are out of school for three months in the summer doesn't mean the teachers are. She usually ends up getting about 6 weeks off after subtracting all the work that needs to be done to prepare for the next school year, including required meetings starting a month before the school year begins. And that's not counting all the time spent during the summer taking phone calls from kids and their parents. Oh, and those preps & lunches? She spends them either subbing for other teachers' classes to make a little extra cash (I think it comes out to about $10/hour) or helping her students with their schoolwork or social problems. Many days she never even has a chance to eat her own lunch; she sure as hell doesn't have all kinds of spare time with nothing to do.
This has been the experience of all the teachers I have known.
In addition to all the work she officially does for school, my mom spends countless hours helping out her students and former students with social issues. They call her at night, on weekends, and in the summer when they can't get along with their parents or foster parents. She buys them meals when they haven't eaten in days. She gives them rides to work and to doctor's appointments. She helps them figure out how to get pregnancy tests and birth control. Many of her students are in the foster care system (you know, that system that so many people seem to think is so great, for the unwanted kids that supposedly don't exist). They "age out" at 18 or 19 and essentially get kicked out onto the streets with few resources. Who do you think helps them find jobs and homes once the state stops giving a shit? Their teachers and former teachers, that's who. My mom. All this while being treated like shit from student and the public. All this while oftentimes having to fear for her own safety. She's too old for this shit (and no one should have to be treated as badly as teachers are anyway). But, hey, if she wants a decent retirement so, after sacrificing for kids for 30 years, she doesn't have to be an old lady facing down violent, grown students because she's too broke to retire into safety, I guess she's just fucking selfish, right? :roll:
Sure, there are some teachers who don't care enough about their students. (I guess there are, since there are selfish people in every profession. It doesn't really make sense, though, that a person who cares more about themselves than the kids would stay in a profession where they are not well-respected or well-compensated.) But for people to claim that "teachers" as a whole, or even a majority, don't care about their students is complete and utter bullshit - and it's fucking offensive. Every one of you who sits here writing disrespectful shit about teachers is able to do so only because of the wonderful teachers who taught your snot-nosed, smart-assed selves how to read and write. (I know you were snot-nosed and smart-asses because all kids are snot-nosed and smart-assed at some point.) How quickly people forget those to whom they owe their success. :(
For what its worth, my mother-in-law is in the same boat as your mom. Works a hell of a lot more than just "75% of the time," 100% does it for the kids, and gets paid peanuts to do so.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
What everyone needs to understand is that New York and Ontario don't represent education systems everywhere. Of the many, many teachers I've known, I have NEVER known a teacher who made even close to 80 grand, even by the time they retired. The teachers I know can barely afford to retire (unless their spouses have better jobs).
wow both our mom's are teachers too? we keep getting more and more in common
anyways, I don't know any public school teacher that makes 80 either... and certainly not after 11 years! from what I can see the only people who make those kinds of figures are the people in the highest positions.
my mom is an ESL teacher who works through a government program, she makes a little higher than those in the public school but she's also been with the school board for about 30 years. anyways, thanks in part to Harper's settlement program cuts she and about 40 other teachers will be losing their jobs.
That sucks about your mom. :( I hope she is able to find a good job that she likes - and that pays well.
At the risk of threadjacking the threadjack and taking this back to its original topic...
I find it curious that a lot of people in America look down their noses at educated people. There are people who criticize Obama for being an "elitist" simply because he was educated at an Ivy League school and can coherently string a sentence together. Oddly enough, many of the people who criticize Obama for that were whipped into a frenzy by Republican politicians... Republican politicians who went to prestigious universities (what was that comment about keeping the population dumb so they don't try and change the system?). Here in Louisiana there's a lot of anti-higher education sentiment, and a lot of people are glad that the universities are having their budgets slashed because, to them, universities do nothing more than train people to be liberal elites (because, you know, when you're researching potential cures for cancer and AIDS it totally matters who you voted for in the last election). It never ceases to amaze me just how many people out there distrust people with an education. Personally, I don't want the leader of a country to be a "man of the people" - I want the guy in charge to be able to think at a higher level than me. People need more education (and of a better quality), not less - though there are people out there who think education = bad. It's crazy.
As for why the budgets keep getting cut... one of the problems may be that education lobbyists aren't exactly as powerful and influential as the NRA, oil lobbyists, etc. At least that's been my (admittedly limited) experience.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
For what its worth, my mother-in-law is in the same boat as your mom. Works a hell of a lot more than just "75% of the time," 100% does it for the kids, and gets paid peanuts to do so.
Thank you. I guess those who thought I was making shit up will now think the same about you.
I can't believe we live in a day and age where "teachers make too much money". These information wars are sickening.
By the way, let's say a teacher does make 80k a year in New York City. So frikkin what? That's probably barely treading water in Manhattan. Get some perspective, people. Teachers have very important jobs and should be treated as such. We should also in return expect the best from them.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
What everyone needs to understand is that New York and Ontario don't represent education systems everywhere. Of the many, many teachers I've known, I have NEVER known a teacher who made even close to 80 grand, even by the time they retired. The teachers I know can barely afford to retire (unless their spouses have better jobs).
wow both our mom's are teachers too? we keep getting more and more in common
anyways, I don't know any public school teacher that makes 80 either... and certainly not after 11 years! from what I can see the only people who make those kinds of figures are the people in the highest positions.
my mom is an ESL teacher who works through a government program, she makes a little higher than those in the public school but she's also been with the school board for about 30 years. anyways, thanks in part to Harper's settlement program cuts she and about 40 other teachers will be losing their jobs.
That sucks about your mom. :( I hope she is able to find a good job that she likes - and that pays well.
yeah, i meant to add as well... there are lots of teachers who do and don't put in the extra time.
my mom leaves at 5am every morning to do 3 hours of prep before class. she makes all her own worksheets and activities. she's actually left for a conference tonight where she will be a guest speaker. go mom!
At the risk of threadjacking the threadjack and taking this back to its original topic...
I find it curious that a lot of people in America look down their noses at educated people. There are people who criticize Obama for being an "elitist" simply because he was educated at an Ivy League school and can coherently string a sentence together. Oddly enough, many of the people who criticize Obama for that were whipped into a frenzy by Republican politicians... Republican politicians who went to prestigious universities (what was that comment about keeping the population dumb so they don't try and change the system?). Here in Louisiana there's a lot of anti-higher education sentiment, and a lot of people are glad that the universities are having their budgets slashed because, to them, universities do nothing more than train people to be liberal elites (because, you know, when you're researching potential cures for cancer and AIDS it totally matters who you voted for in the last election). It never ceases to amaze me just how many people out there distrust people with an education. Personally, I don't want the leader of a country to be a "man of the people" - I want the guy in charge to be able to think at a higher level than me. People need more education (and of a better quality), not less - though there are people out there who think education = bad. It's crazy.
As for why the budgets keep getting cut... one of the problems may be that education lobbyists aren't exactly as powerful and influential as the NRA, oil lobbyists, etc. At least that's been my (admittedly limited) experience.
It's brilliant. The dumber your voter base, the easier it is to manipulate them.
At the risk of threadjacking the threadjack and taking this back to its original topic...
I find it curious that a lot of people in America look down their noses at educated people. There are people who criticize Obama for being an "elitist" simply because he was educated at an Ivy League school and can coherently string a sentence together. Oddly enough, many of the people who criticize Obama for that were whipped into a frenzy by Republican politicians... Republican politicians who went to prestigious universities (what was that comment about keeping the population dumb so they don't try and change the system?). Here in Louisiana there's a lot of anti-higher education sentiment, and a lot of people are glad that the universities are having their budgets slashed because, to them, universities do nothing more than train people to be liberal elites (because, you know, when you're researching potential cures for cancer and AIDS it totally matters who you voted for in the last election). It never ceases to amaze me just how many people out there distrust people with an education. Personally, I don't want the leader of a country to be a "man of the people" - I want the guy in charge to be able to think at a higher level than me. People need more education (and of a better quality), not less - though there are people out there who think education = bad. It's crazy.
As for why the budgets keep getting cut... one of the problems may be that education lobbyists aren't exactly as powerful and influential as the NRA, oil lobbyists, etc. At least that's been my (admittedly limited) experience.
Wow hell of a statement well said
The best revenge is to live on and prove yourself - EV
Comments
It's absolutely baffling to me how you have zero interest in reality. :?
It's also baffling to me how you think you know the lives and hearts of everyone else better than they do.
And I have NEVER said the U.S. public education system doesn't fail our kids, so I don't know how you can claim that I refuse to admit that. All I have talked about at all is your bogus claim that teachers across the country, as a whole, are selfish and well-compensated. I would assert, however, that it's YOU and people like you with their disinterest in reality and their belief that teachers have to be screwed for kids to succeed who are at the root of why our education system sucks in this country. And I believe that claim is supported by the data showing that students get better educations in countries where teachers are valued.
Did a teacher hurt you as a child or something? :?
Yet you've never even acknowledged the kids, only the teachers, throughout this whole thread. What a joke.
Keep the rudeness coming... You're always good at that! :roll:
Though I have acknowledged the kids by saying what I think is in their best interest, this conversation is about the teachers. YOU have been talking about the teachers and I have been responding to your comments about the teachers.
And please note your tone as well. :roll:
Bullshit have you acknowledged the kids' interests. You're not kidding anyone here. THIS conversation is about EDUCATION CUTS, which means what's being cut from the students and the school districts. Teachers are part of that conversation and you've veered not at all very far from what you think about teachers. You don't have kids, you consider your time in school years ago, to being aware of 'student interests', and have said nothing about students in general other than "Teacher unions look out for the kids". So when you feel like talking about the big issue here, EDUCATION CUTS, you let us know.
I'm actually not even sure what you're really saying here. Are you saying that tens, hundreds, thousands, or more people who don't know each other can independently say that they work outside the hours you have claimed, make less money that you have claimed, care more than you have claimed - and your response is just that they are all lying?? Here's what I'm understanding you to be saying, so please correct me if I'm wrong:
Person #1 (X 100,000): I work on evenings and weekends preparing lesson plans.
Jeanwah: No you don't.
Person #2: I attend mandatory meetings in the summers.
Jeanwah: I don't believe you.
Person #3: I provide social support in addition to just textbook educations.
Jeanwah: Post a link & prove it.
Person #4: I use my own money to pay for supplies for the classroom.
Jeanwah: That's not true.
Person #5: I get paid x amount of money.
Jeanwah: That can't be true since I know someone in another state who makes more.
Person #6: The state legislature has voted for my paychecks to be decreased.
Jeanwah: I know more about your paycheck than you do and I say that's bullshit.
Person #7: I care about and sacrifice for my students.
Jeanwah: No you don't.
Et cetera.
:? :?
And this just verifies my point. That you refuse to realize that your preoccupation with the teachers prevents you from seeing the real issue: the KIDS!
Do I really need to recap for you? You said "It's really all about [the teachers], and not the kids," to which I replied, "I couldn't agree less with that gross generalization." And that is what our conversation has been about. YOU are the one who steered the conversation in this direction, so I don't think you really have room to give me shit for following your lead.
Regardless, how on earth can we even talk about the "big issue" when you are narrowly focused on condemning teachers (& their unions) for all the ills of the education system?? It's not possible to solve any problem when starting from a false premise. How about this... when you're ready to base the discussion of this issue in reality, you let "us" know.
Hmm... as I've already said, I am not refusing to talk about kids. I have been RESPONDING to YOUR issue: the teachers. You can't just change the subject and then, when you have no good response, change it back again - and try to blame it on me! Clever trick though.
Regardless, you completely dodged my question. Are you saying that all these people are lying??
Here in Ontario it's a BA or higher and a year of teacher's college. Surely the BA is worth something. Do guidance councilors not warn students that teaching has poor pay and benefits, so students know that they should consider other options?
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Yeah, they know. But, contrary to popular belief, they go into it to help the kids, not for the money.
W/O taking care of the teachers talking about the kids is moot.
I really do find it difficult to believe that people can honestly try to make the argument that teachers are underpaid.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Ha! MANY young people go into it because it is a part-time job with summers and holidays off.
...Trying to blame me when you feel cornered. You really are funny.
Another 2 cents from me: When I worked as a program assitant at our local Community College the standard joke among instructors was this:
"Administrators tend to believe, 'If it wasn't for those damn students we could get some work done around here.'"
This was told to me on two separate occasions by two of our finest instructors.
Oh, and guess who got the highest pay?
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
That doesn't bother me at all. Cheers!
anyways, I don't know any public school teacher that makes 80 either... and certainly not after 11 years! from what I can see the only people who make those kinds of figures are the people in the highest positions.
my mom is an ESL teacher who works through a government program, she makes a little higher than those in the public school but she's also been with the school board for about 30 years. anyways, thanks in part to Harper's settlement program cuts she and about 40 other teachers will be losing their jobs.
For what its worth, my mother-in-law is in the same boat as your mom. Works a hell of a lot more than just "75% of the time," 100% does it for the kids, and gets paid peanuts to do so.
That sucks about your mom. :( I hope she is able to find a good job that she likes - and that pays well.
I find it curious that a lot of people in America look down their noses at educated people. There are people who criticize Obama for being an "elitist" simply because he was educated at an Ivy League school and can coherently string a sentence together. Oddly enough, many of the people who criticize Obama for that were whipped into a frenzy by Republican politicians... Republican politicians who went to prestigious universities (what was that comment about keeping the population dumb so they don't try and change the system?). Here in Louisiana there's a lot of anti-higher education sentiment, and a lot of people are glad that the universities are having their budgets slashed because, to them, universities do nothing more than train people to be liberal elites (because, you know, when you're researching potential cures for cancer and AIDS it totally matters who you voted for in the last election). It never ceases to amaze me just how many people out there distrust people with an education. Personally, I don't want the leader of a country to be a "man of the people" - I want the guy in charge to be able to think at a higher level than me. People need more education (and of a better quality), not less - though there are people out there who think education = bad. It's crazy.
As for why the budgets keep getting cut... one of the problems may be that education lobbyists aren't exactly as powerful and influential as the NRA, oil lobbyists, etc. At least that's been my (admittedly limited) experience.
Thank you. I guess those who thought I was making shit up will now think the same about you.
By the way, let's say a teacher does make 80k a year in New York City. So frikkin what? That's probably barely treading water in Manhattan. Get some perspective, people. Teachers have very important jobs and should be treated as such. We should also in return expect the best from them.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
my mom leaves at 5am every morning to do 3 hours of prep before class. she makes all her own worksheets and activities. she's actually left for a conference tonight where she will be a guest speaker. go mom!
Wow hell of a statement well said