the education system is a failure in the US based strictly on performance and key metrics ... is it the fault of the teachers? the unions? the governmemt? ... i suspect like everything else - it's a little bit of everything ... the reality is that each interest puts the welfare of students second ... whether people want to admit it or not ...
and just like most programs run by a corporatized gov't - misuse of funds is rampant ... in order for an education system to work ... the welfare of the students must be the first and foremost priority ... until then - we can bicker all we want on salaries and appropriation of funds but those won't fix what is at the heart of the problem ...
Agreed. Sadly, we're just too selfish to put anyone in front of ourselves, regardless of the issue.
There you go getting all personal and with the unnecessary f-bombs and insults. Ya know what? I'm not going to play your game, and I do, know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not going to discuss education cuts with someone who DOESN'T EVEN HAVE CHILDREN. It's clear what side you're on, and I refuse to waste my time with the likes of you, scb, any longer. See ya! But I will say this, watch the documentary!
:wave:
:roll:
I didn't insult you and I don't have a problem with using the word fuck on the message board of a rock band that uses the word frequently. I'm sorry if you do.
How can you POSSIBLY say you know more than I do about the cuts to my own salary - in a state where you don't even live?! That's one of the more absurd assertions I've heard on this forum.
It's ridiculous to disregard the informed ideas of people who don't have children, especially when some of us pay more attention to what's going on than the people who do have children. It's clear that you just don't have the ability to address my points.
Thank you, thank you! Unfortunately, I am not old enough to run for president, rich enough, popular enough, and I have long hair (which I don't plan on cutting any time soon) and if you've ever heard my music it's very NOT PC . I ask that you throw all your weight and a reasonable amount of campaign money to my homeboy Ron Paul-- it's the closest you'll get to a VINNY GOOMBA presidency-- actually, I think he'd be slightly better at it than me .
I also believe that i big reason Education is also cut is due to the fact that youth don't vote. I find it shocking that if you pay attention to the world and the countries that are doing well, they are increasing money on education. Canada and America are falling behind in all rankings in the world concerning education and that is just sicken and bad for our future.
that is CERTAINLY the case up here!
i think the voter turnout was like 30% for people of my generation :roll:
The simplest thought I've had on this is this...for so long now all we've heard is how we are living in a global economy. If that is true then why are we all not spending the same amount of money on education globaly? If you have more people that are educated the right way, that would lead to more people obtaining better paying jobs and put more skillful people in the workforce globably. It just seems that the majority (not on this thread) are content with saying to teachers, hey you know what yeah you are responsible to educate kids, you're responsible to babysit too, but if you ask for a penny more we throw shit fit and try to take away your union. I do understand both sides you guys have made here and I truly do appreciate the replies, I'm just trying to get outside of my own opinion and views and try to learn more from other people here and to be exposed to some thoughts I might not have arrived at myself...
The best revenge is to live on and prove yourself - EV
The simplest thought I've had on this is this...for so long now all we've heard is how we are living in a global economy. If that is true then why are we all not spending the same amount of money on education globaly? If you have more people that are educated the right way, that would lead to more people obtaining better paying jobs and put more skillful people in the workforce globably. It just seems that the majority (not on this thread) are content with saying to teachers, hey you know what yeah you are responsible to educate kids, you're responsible to babysit too, but if you ask for a penny more we throw shit fit and try to take away your union. I do understand both sides you guys have made here and I truly do appreciate the replies, I'm just trying to get outside of my own opinion and views and try to learn more from other people here and to be exposed to some thoughts I might not have arrived at myself...
Good point. It's time that people started thinking of people as people instead of people as geographic boundaries.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I also believe that i big reason Education is also cut is due to the fact that youth don't vote. I find it shocking that if you pay attention to the world and the countries that are doing well, they are increasing money on education. Canada and America are falling behind in all rankings in the world concerning education and that is just sicken and bad for our future.
The simplest thought I've had on this is this...for so long now all we've heard is how we are living in a global economy. If that is true then why are we all not spending the same amount of money on education globally? If you have more people that are educated the right way, that would lead to more people obtaining better paying jobs and put more skillful people in the workforce globally. It just seems that the majority (not on this thread) are content with saying to teachers, hey you know what yeah you are responsible to educate kids, you're responsible to babysit too, but if you ask for a penny more we throw shit fit and try to take away your union. I do understand both sides you guys have made here and I truly do appreciate the replies, I'm just trying to get outside of my own opinion and views and try to learn more from other people here and to be exposed to some thoughts I might not have arrived at myself...
The simplest thought I've had on this is this...for so long now all we've heard is how we are living in a global economy. If that is true then why are we all not spending the same amount of money on education globaly? If you have more people that are educated the right way, that would lead to more people obtaining better paying jobs and put more skillful people in the workforce globably. It just seems that the majority (not on this thread) are content with saying to teachers, hey you know what yeah you are responsible to educate kids, you're responsible to babysit too, but if you ask for a penny more we throw shit fit and try to take away your union. I do understand both sides you guys have made here and I truly do appreciate the replies, I'm just trying to get outside of my own opinion and views and try to learn more from other people here and to be exposed to some thoughts I might not have arrived at myself...
Good point. It's time that people started thinking of people as people instead of people as geographic boundaries.
the day the US does that is the day to celebrate.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,437
"Why in the hell is Education spending cut every time shit hits the fan in this country?"
Having spent 7 years of my working life (though not currently) in public education as a teacher , I'll throw in my two cents worth:
For the most part, public education in America is about training worker bees- training them to punch in and punch out, to perform in a specified manner, to produce specified units of goods or services and to be obedient. For the most part, our public education system does not encourage critical thinking, skepticism or creativity. Teachers are strongly encouraged to follow specified formats. It does not take a lot of money to produce worker bees and apparently it is still easy to find teachers who will work for low professional wages and who accept that they are expected to work within specified parameters.
If this sounds like a bleak description- it is. I've know several teachers who went into that occupation with lofty goals and high expectations for doing something good and useful and eventually found that avenue to be one of futility. I'm a book dealer now. I get to spend at least as much time turning kids on to good reading as I did when I was teaching and no one chews me out for recommending books that happen to be on a banned book list. I make less money, but I'm much more content and the kids always come back for more good reading ideas.
Public Education will never receive proper funding until it becomes respected, honored and actuated as education rather than training and teachers will never be paid as they should until they are asked to be educators rather than trainers and baby sitters.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
The simplest thought I've had on this is this...for so long now all we've heard is how we are living in a global economy. If that is true then why are we all not spending the same amount of money on education globaly? If you have more people that are educated the right way, that would lead to more people obtaining better paying jobs and put more skillful people in the workforce globably. It just seems that the majority (not on this thread) are content with saying to teachers, hey you know what yeah you are responsible to educate kids, you're responsible to babysit too, but if you ask for a penny more we throw shit fit and try to take away your union. I do understand both sides you guys have made here and I truly do appreciate the replies, I'm just trying to get outside of my own opinion and views and try to learn more from other people here and to be exposed to some thoughts I might not have arrived at myself...
Good point. It's time that people started thinking of people as people instead of people as geographic boundaries.
the day the US does that is the day to celebrate.
The US doesn't have the market cornered on this. All countries think about themselves first.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Maybe you did used to be someone else after all; you're starting to sound an awful lot like Pandora. :roll:
That's a compliment! Pandora seems like a damn cool chick!
I was referencing the fact that she frequently says people's opinions are invalid if they're younger than she is or don't have kids.
Funny how you take things...
I never ever even thought the things you write are least bit invalid and I have never said anything like that...
you have so very many good points in your topics even when I don't agree.
You are a bright and passionate young woman. I do not dismiss you because you are younger or not a mother
that would imply I am small minded and hearted
I hope I have proven to be neither.
Wish you could see my heart and eyes...you would know then
and thank you friends!
I really wish I could have faith in a candidate like I do VINNY GOOMBA ...
that would be a wonderful day to believe things could be just, good and fair....
now I wonder if they ever really were or if I just wanted them to be.
I have been jaded when it comes to the power of our government...the future is lookin not so bright.
I work as part of the support staff at high school in Ontario, Canada. I know this, the teachers at the school I work at, the day is from 8 am 2:15 pm with a 70 min prep and 50 min lunch and the odd day they are assigned 20 minutes supervision duty at lunch. They get all stat holidays off, 2 weeks off at Christmas, 1 week off in March and about 10 weeks in the summer...at the top of the pay scale they make 80 grand +, it takes around 11 years to reach this, I believe they start around 40 grand. With the exception of a small minority very few volunteer after school.
If you don't think these teachers care about themselves first, don't kid yourself. A few years back they thought they might be asked to cover for absentee teacher and give up their prep, not all the time, just once in a while. Let me tell you, they said they'd go on strike if need be, It never did reach the negotiating table, probably because the school board knew that this would never fly.
Unfortunately kids really do come second...the teacher unions control education, they hold the school boards hostage. Never understood how they are not considered an essential service.
From what I've seen on 60 minutes and read New York City's teacher union is quite powerful.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
What everyone needs to understand is that New York and Ontario don't represent education systems everywhere. Of the many, many teachers I've known, I have NEVER known a teacher who made even close to 80 grand, even by the time they retired. The teachers I know can barely afford to retire (unless their spouses have better jobs).
After 30 years of teaching, my mom still makes only about $40,000/year. The state legislature controls educators' annual raises (including mine) and they have not given us one for the past 4 or so years. Instead, they have taken money from our paychecks every year for the past 3 years so the state could use that money for its general fund. The only way for my mom to get a raise is to go back to school and get a master's degree. (She wanted to get one when she did her bachelor's and nearly had enough credits, but her academic advisors and professors told her it would be useless & she had two babies to raise & pay for, so she went straight to work instead.) Since retirement benefits are a percentage of your annual salary averaged over the past few year (and they're trying to make that time frame longer so we get less), she feels like she can't afford to retire unless she gets a master's. And they're telling us now that our retirement fund is facing solvency issues. Oh, and let's not forget that much of the money it takes just to run the classroom - paper & ink for the printer, the printer itself, etc. - comes out of her pocket.
Many of the teachers I have known have had to get second jobs while working and get jobs after retirement just to make ends meet. You know those old people who greet you at Walmart? Start asking around and you'll find that many of them are retired teachers.
My mom gets to work at 7 every day and school lets out around 2:30, but she frequently stays until 5-10 o'clock at night and goes in on the weekends. (I'd like to know, lukin2006, whether or not YOU were at school during nights and weekends and, if not, how can you say anyone else wasn't?) And just because the kids are out of school for three months in the summer doesn't mean the teachers are. She usually ends up getting about 6 weeks off after subtracting all the work that needs to be done to prepare for the next school year, including required meetings starting a month before the school year begins. And that's not counting all the time spent during the summer taking phone calls from kids and their parents. Oh, and those preps & lunches? She spends them either subbing for other teachers' classes to make a little extra cash (I think it comes out to about $10/hour) or helping her students with their schoolwork or social problems. Many days she never even has a chance to eat her own lunch; she sure as hell doesn't have all kinds of spare time with nothing to do.
This has been the experience of all the teachers I have known.
In addition to all the work she officially does for school, my mom spends countless hours helping out her students and former students with social issues. They call her at night, on weekends, and in the summer when they can't get along with their parents or foster parents. She buys them meals when they haven't eaten in days. She gives them rides to work and to doctor's appointments. She helps them figure out how to get pregnancy tests and birth control. Many of her students are in the foster care system (you know, that system that so many people seem to think is so great, for the unwanted kids that supposedly don't exist). They "age out" at 18 or 19 and essentially get kicked out onto the streets with few resources. Who do you think helps them find jobs and homes once the state stops giving a shit? Their teachers and former teachers, that's who. My mom. All this while being treated like shit from student and the public. All this while oftentimes having to fear for her own safety. She's too old for this shit (and no one should have to be treated as badly as teachers are anyway). But, hey, if she wants a decent retirement so, after sacrificing for kids for 30 years, she doesn't have to be an old lady facing down violent, grown students because she's too broke to retire into safety, I guess she's just fucking selfish, right? :roll:
Sure, there are some teachers who don't care enough about their students. (I guess there are, since there are selfish people in every profession. It doesn't really make sense, though, that a person who cares more about themselves than the kids would stay in a profession where they are not well-respected or well-compensated.) But for people to claim that "teachers" as a whole, or even a majority, don't care about their students is complete and utter bullshit - and it's fucking offensive. Every one of you who sits here writing disrespectful shit about teachers is able to do so only because of the wonderful teachers who taught your snot-nosed, smart-assed selves how to read and write. (I know you were snot-nosed and smart-asses because all kids are snot-nosed and smart-assed at some point.) How quickly people forget those to whom they owe their success. :(
What everyone needs to understand is that New York and Ontario don't represent education systems everywhere. Of the many, many teachers I've known, I have NEVER known a teacher who made even close to 80 grand, even by the time they retired. The teachers I know can barely afford to retire (unless their spouses have better jobs).
After 30 years of teaching, my mom still makes only about $40,000/year. The state legislature controls educators' annual raises (including mine) and they have not given us one for the past 4 or so years. Instead, they have taken money from our paychecks every year for the past 3 years so the state could use that money for its general fund. The only way for my mom to get a raise is to go back to school and get a master's degree. (She wanted to get one when she did her bachelor's and nearly had enough credits, but her academic advisors and professors told her it would be useless & she had two babies to raise & pay for, so she went straight to work instead.) Since retirement benefits are a percentage of your annual salary averaged over the past few year (and they're trying to make that time frame longer so we get less), she feels like she can't afford to retire unless she gets a master's. And they're telling us now that our retirement fund is facing solvency issues. Oh, and let's not forget that much of the money it takes just to run the classroom - paper & ink for the printer, the printer itself, etc. - comes out of her pocket.
Many of the teachers I have known have had to get second jobs while working and get jobs after retirement just to make ends meet. You know those old people who greet you at Walmart? Start asking around and you'll find that many of them are retired teachers.
My mom gets to work at 7 every day and school lets out around 2:30, but she frequently stays until 5-10 o'clock at night and goes in on the weekends. (I'd like to know, lukin2006, whether or not YOU were at school during nights and weekends and, if not, how can you say anyone else wasn't?) And just because the kids are out of school for three months in the summer doesn't mean the teachers are. She usually ends up getting about 6 weeks off after subtracting all the work that needs to be done to prepare for the next school year, including required meetings starting a month before the school year begins. And that's not counting all the time spent during the summer taking phone calls from kids and their parents. Oh, and those preps & lunches? She spends them either subbing for other teachers' classes to make a little extra cash (I think it comes out to about $10/hour) or helping her students with their schoolwork or social problems. Many days she never even has a chance to eat her own lunch; she sure as hell doesn't have all kinds of spare time with nothing to do.
This has been the experience of all the teachers I have known.
In addition to all the work she officially does for school, my mom spends countless hours helping out her students and former students with social issues. They call her at night, on weekends, and in the summer when they can't get along with their parents or foster parents. She buys them meals when they haven't eaten in days. She gives them rides to work and to doctor's appointments. She helps them figure out how to get pregnancy tests and birth control. Many of her students are in the foster care system (you know, that system that so many people seem to think is so great, for the unwanted kids that supposedly don't exist). They "age out" at 18 or 19 and essentially get kicked out onto the streets with few resources. Who do you think helps them find jobs and homes once the state stops giving a shit? Their teachers and former teachers, that's who. My mom. All this while being treated like shit from student and the public. All this while oftentimes having to fear for her own safety. She's too old for this shit (and no one should have to be treated as badly as teachers are anyway). But, hey, if she wants a decent retirement so, after sacrificing for kids for 30 years, she doesn't have to be an old lady facing down violent, grown students because she's too broke to retire into safety, I guess she's just fucking selfish, right? :roll:
Sure, there are some teachers who don't care enough about their students. (I guess there are, since there are selfish people in every profession. It doesn't really make sense, though, that a person who cares more about themselves than the kids would stay in a profession where they are not well-respected or well-compensated.) But for people to claim that "teachers" as a whole, or even a majority, don't care about their students is complete and utter bullshit - and it's fucking offensive. Every one of you who sits here writing disrespectful shit about teachers is able to do so only because of the wonderful teachers who taught your snot-nosed, smart-assed selves how to read and write. (I know you were snot-nosed and smart-asses because all kids are snot-nosed and smart-assed at some point.) How quickly people forget those to whom they owe their success. :(
Actually I am there at night and they would have to sign in if they were to come in on the weekends, other than the one's who are coaching sports and it's a select few, they are gone by 2:30. The one's who sign in on the weekend is usually the Principle and custodians. I can only speak from personal experience, but from the most part teachers in Ontario have it pretty good, not to mention they are refereed to having one of the best pensions in the world, maybe only Canadian politicians have better.
As for the time off thats how much they get.
They are a very me oriented group...because of the recession and the Ontario deficit the provincial government has approached them about a wage freeze when their current contract expires, we'll see how that plays out, a few I spoke to are not happy about it, so we'll see how it plays out.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Actually I am there at night and they would have to sign in if they were to come in on the weekends, other than the one's who are coaching sports and it's a select few, they are gone by 2:30. The one's who sign in on the weekend is usually the Principle and custodians. I can only speak from personal experience, but from the most part teachers in Ontario have it pretty good, not to mention they are refereed to having one of the best pensions in the world, maybe only Canadian politicians have better.
As for the time off thats how much they get.
They are a very me oriented group...because of the recession and the Ontario deficit the provincial government has approached them about a wage freeze when their current contract expires, we'll see how that plays out, a few I spoke to are not happy about it, so we'll see how it plays out.
The underlined part of your post is the most import important point in this thread. It's a tragedy & a logical fallacy that some people will use their or your personal experience to generalize an entire profession, to think they actually know about the circumstances of others when they couldn't possibly have a clue. Unfortunately, that's the kind of "logic" we see too often on this board & in this world - and I'd say it's one of the major reasons the world is as fucked up as it is.
Actually I am there at night and they would have to sign in if they were to come in on the weekends, other than the one's who are coaching sports and it's a select few, they are gone by 2:30. The one's who sign in on the weekend is usually the Principle and custodians. I can only speak from personal experience, but from the most part teachers in Ontario have it pretty good, not to mention they are refereed to having one of the best pensions in the world, maybe only Canadian politicians have better.
As for the time off thats how much they get.
They are a very me oriented group...because of the recession and the Ontario deficit the provincial government has approached them about a wage freeze when their current contract expires, we'll see how that plays out, a few I spoke to are not happy about it, so we'll see how it plays out.
The underlined part of your post is the most import important point in this thread. It's a tragedy & a logical fallacy that some people will use their or your personal experience to generalize an entire profession, to think they actually know about the circumstances of others when they couldn't possibly have a clue. Unfortunately, that's the kind of "logic" we see too often on this board & in this world - and I'd say it's one of the major reasons the world is as fucked up as it is.
It's pretty much the same in all of Ontario...sorry if you are offended. But here in Ontario it's pretty good job, good pay, good benefits, good benefits with far more time off than the average person.
I was not commenting about your personal situation.
I'm sure there are some places in the states that pay school teachers well...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
It's pretty much the same in all of Ontario...sorry if you are offended. But here in Ontario it's pretty good job, good pay, good benefits, good benefits with far more time off than the average person.
I was not commenting about your personal situation.
I'm sure there are some places in the states that pay school teachers well...
I know you weren't commenting on my personal situation and I appreciate that. If you say teachers are generally paid well in Ontario, I'll have to believe you since I don't have any personal experience with teacher salaries in Ontario - just like others will have to believe my personal experience. By the same logic, I still don't think you can know about how all Ontario teachers spend their time or whether they care about the kids based just on your personal experience with some of them. I'm sure there are probably at least a couple of states in this country that pay teachers well, but I've never lived in any of them.
It's pretty much the same in all of Ontario...sorry if you are offended. But here in Ontario it's pretty good job, good pay, good benefits, good benefits with far more time off than the average person.
I was not commenting about your personal situation.
I'm sure there are some places in the states that pay school teachers well...
I know you weren't commenting on my personal situation and I appreciate that. If you say teachers are generally paid well in Ontario, I'll have to believe you since I don't have any personal experience with teacher salaries in Ontario - just like others will have to believe my personal experience. By the same logic, I still don't think you can know about how all Ontario teachers spend their time or whether they care about the kids based just on your personal experience with some of them. I'm sure there are probably at least a couple of states in this country that pay teachers well, but I've never lived in any of them.
I don't believe I said they don't care about kids, I said kids come second. I just dare any government to try and pass essential service legislation and take away their right to strike, just try it, and as far as I'm concerned it is an essential service. You are right I can't say for sure how many teachers volunteer their time after school, school is from 8 - 2:15 everyday, without their prep and lunch that is a 6:15 minute day, so if they volunteer doing 1:45 extra curricular activities a day they are still only at an 8 hour day.
Now how many people work 40+ hours per week and still volunteer at something and they doing because it makes them feel good. Sorry here in Ontario, teachers do not get my sympathy, and theirs unions are something else.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I Googled teacher salaries & found varied accounts of what teachers in the U.S. make. Though many of the salaries are low, many people commented that they are actually even lower than listed because administrator salaries are usually factored in to "average teacher salaries". I didn't find anything that said even the states with the best salaries have average salaries of even $60,000, much less $80,000.
Regardless, here are some of the comments I read in various places:
" My wife live and teach in Hawaii, which ranks all the way at the bottom in the pathetic 50th slot. That's why there's a teacher shortage here - it's so expensive that teachers just can't make it. The teachers that thrive here over time are locals who have inherited home equity and so don't have to worry about buying a home, and teachers who marry doctors, lawyers, etc. The general pattern is for recent college grads eager to try life in Paradise, who stay a couple of years but quickly figure out it's not worth it in the long-term."
"Unfortunately, many states start their teachers out well below what is listed here as "starting salary." Texas is one of those states. Our 2008-2009 starting salary is $27,000. I understand that's minimum, but most of our teachers actually do start at that."
"I am proud to say that I taught in two different states NY ( the city) and for 20 Yrs in MD a total of 30 yrs not counting two years of college teaching. Teaching , in and of itself, is a joyful and rewarding experience. You have to love kids and love your teaching area of expertise. When I retired 3 yrs ago I was called "teacher coordinator/ dept chair.... The administration weighed heavily on demanding too much in too little time. I was called at night, I was pulled from my class room to cover for an absent teacher, I was forced to prepare lessons for absentee teachers, I was forced to coach inept teachers that the system was not or had not dismiissed for incompetence.... I would recommend that anyone walk in a teacher's shoes for a few years before commenting on how we complain. It is an arduous job and it is only through loving children and wanting to bring about knowledge and helping others to become mindful adults that we do this job. For all those who are professionals .ask yourself,"where would I be without a teacher/".... School years have been extended, workshops and extra training is essential and when teachers leave the school house there work is never over. Their evenings are nights of correcting papers,, lesson planning and bearing up for one more day which can be hell. Respect and appreciate those who teach as it is a profession laden with love and dedication."
"Now I am teaching art and gifted art. I am not even teaching an academic, and I spend 2-4 hours everyday working at home, and another 4-8 hours every weekend, grading and preparing curriculum. After figuring my actual working hours, I am only making $12.35 per hour."
"Deliver me from the ignorant masses who think that teachers work "180 days" a year. And of course, we only work 71/2 hours a day. BULL. I teach kindergarten, and I love it, or I would not be doing it. It is work. It is consuming if you do it right, If it were only about teaching, that would be a piece of cake, sure. But it's not. It's about making sure the principle is satisfied with my work; meeting the demands of all the new programs the county thinks are the next great thing; catering to parents who think their child is the only one I have in my classroom and he/she is a perfect genius. It's also about finding time to teach 24-5 year olds how to read and write, do math, and understand science and social studies with minimal assistance while differentiating for multi-leveled learners AND assessing all these students individually in all the above mentioned areas. Oh, yea, those benefits. Yea, they're great. But if i have to take one of those "Paid' sick days, I have - while sick - to make plans for the one who will take care of my class while I'm gone, making sure they have everything they need to take care of those 24-5 year olds for the day and get them home safely. I can't just say, "put it on my desk, and I'll see about it tomorrow.""
"I'm a young teacher. I've had many jobs in my life before teaching. This is the HARDEST think I have EVER done. I'm 10 times more stressed than my friends who aren't teachers. Sure I HAVE to be at school from 7:02-2:20 but rarely do I leave before 5. Do I get compensated for that time? No. Do I still take home work? Yes. Do I eat, sleep, and breathe teaching? YES. Do I absolutely love it? YES! Why? I have no idea, I just do. Any one who says teachers have it easy, have no idea what goes on in schools today. They have no clue what a teacher has to put up with - complete lack of respect, apathetic students, new curriculum/programs yearly ... insanity is what we do. Teachers are the most important people. Without them, you don't have anyone else."
"Teachers are given the responsibility to guide our youth morally, ethically, politically, athletically, etc., etc."
"i dont know what planet some of you people are from ; but the kids i teach in an inner city school daily come with guns and drugs, if I were to be paid accordingly for working seven days a week, I would be receiving a doctors salary. I've been teaching long enough that my salary has dropped each year. Haven't seen a raise in 4yrs. My state is one of the lowest paid. To the lawyer obvisously you haven't had to deal with chronic behaviors in the classroom and out of control parents who send notes wtih their children asking you to buy shoes and coats and get mad when you dont do it. I work in a distrist that claims its broke, but surrounding districts in the same state are paying more. To the person thinking about going into teaching; your'e better off where you at if you plan on continuing to put food on the table, our salaries are so low, I qualify for food stamps, and before someone says it , this is my last year teaching, I cannot continue to live off this salary while welfare people around me are better off and they dont have to leave the house . For the folks that say they went into teaching for the kids, then why are you accepting a salary, you must have a second source to pay your bills."
"Teaching is a demanding job that includes coming early, staying late, neglecting you family sometimes (even your own children), getting little sleep, continuous education, using a lot of your money for your classroom. I teach in an urban school district with low income children and I have to say the job is very demanding. Before my students need a teacher, many times they need a mom, a nurse, a counselor. Teachers also have a lot of adminstrative duties. For example, I have to take attendance in 3 different places everyday (online, in a book and one sent to the office.) Also many districts play with teacher pay. My district just keep a two pay check this year, put in escrow and said that we'll get this check when we leave the system. Then they paid us with the deferred summer pay they deduct from our checks, making our summer check significantly smaller."
"I know very few teachers who only work 180 days a year...to being with, contracts include required inservice days (at least in Texas) and "duties assigned" which very often require weekends and holidays (at least they do in my rural school). Don't get me wrong - I love what I do. I have over 25 years in and am not nearly ready to retire. However, "sick leave" in my district is 5 days a year - it took 3 to bury my father who died on Labor Day this year. When I go to my son's wedding next week, out of town and requires that I miss another 3 days - I'll be docked a day's pay for that. And there will be no substitute hired while I'm out - other teachers will have to watch my students during their planning periods. With so little time available to be sick (or for family emergencies), accumulating time is nearly impossible. Because special ed students are now mainstreamed in science, I have classes where the IQ ranges from 85 to 120 - no aides, all modifications left to me - no one has yet to tell me how to teach physics to someone who can't read or do math. My summers are spent at part-time jobs closing the gap....still making less than $55K a year and that includes the part-time stuff. Would I do anything else for a living - like practice law? No thanks. I'd prefer to think I can still fix things and make lives better through my efforts. And, by the way, I have a doctorate, so don't suggest that graduate work would make a tremendous difference - it does, I'll likely never be out of debt."
"Most new teachers still have to get another job during the summer just to make ends meet. And many I know are working evening jobs during the school year just to get by because what they make during the day doesn't pay the bills. Forget trying to raise a family, buy a house, or have a comfortable retirement. That will never happen unless you are single with no student loan debt, or married to someone who makes a ton more money than you do."
"I find it is extremely difficult to compare teaching with other professions. I have found one example I like to use. Many people working in the private sector will ocassionally be required to present and idea to a group or to give an informational speech about something. I watch them prepare for hours, sometimes days to make sure their presentation will get the point across. As a teacher in a small district, I teach five different high school math courses, each requiriing a daily presentation. If I were allowed the same amount of time to prepare as these private sector critics, I'm sure my 180 measley days would turn into well over 500 days per year! for the lawyer working hard for a client, I see about 100 different clients every day with an equally life changing experience on the line. If anyone else thinks my job is easy - go get your secondary education degree, and your math degree - in Wisconsin you need both - and come to my class prepared to teach AP Calc AB, AP Calc BC, Pre-Calc, Algebra 2 and Algebra 1 every day with an hour and a half to prepare for all of them as well as grade all 100 assignments every day..."
" I am also a west virginia teacher with a masters plus 30 and fifteen years experience. I have also had cancer, and our health insurance did not cover anything. So with a salary of less than 40k in the part of the state that is the bedroom community for DC with DC cost of living, a retirement plan that was stolen by our governor - I too have to have a part time job. In fact on average at my school 75% of the teachers have second part-time jobs. So for those of you who think that all teachers have great health insurance, retirement packages, and loads of time off - think again. Not every state is the sameand the starting salary/average salary on this scale is not accurate. My state's starting salary is much lower. What I would like to see is the average net pay. My NET pay after taxes, health Insurance, etc (not including my personal IRA) is only 21,000."
"I have been teaching for 16 years and started at the age of 36. I absolutely love my job and my kids. (middle school) My kids love and respect me, BUT then you have the parents. Yes, I get along with most of my parents, but honey you don't have a clue what you will run into. This is something they do not teach you in school! Regarding teaching salaries--My salary started right around $19,000 I am now making 44,500, but I have completed my Master's since I started. I teach in Illinois and the average salary is misleading.... Believe me, I am teaching two college night classes and work on Saturday nights at a store for extra money! I want to be paid what I am worth."
"I currently teach public elementary school. The thing I love about my job today is the same thing I loved about my job 20 years ago--the children. My salary has moved from 23k to 49k. However, my job has changed description has changed greatly. I am no longer just a teacher. I am mother,father, social worker, nurse, lawyer, technology guru, court reporter, data doctor, production planner and production supervisor.... Getting back to my teacher salary--49k sounds pretty decent right? Lets give it a closer look. $900 a month goes to my family medical and dental insurance. We can't get cheaper insurance rates because the group we are with consistes primarily of women of child-bearing age.... I pay about $70 in NEA dues to keep bus chasing parents from trying to sue me for pulling their child off another child in a fight. Now because of budget cuts, my school system is looking into furloughing to save money.... Before anyone goes into teaching, they have to ask themselves if teaching is a career they can afford to have. Most teachers have to find some sort of side work to supplement their income--whether tutoring, selling jewelry and candles, working at the mall, waitressing, etc."
"Sure the average pay is that high…but that is including the pay of supervisors and principles that never even teach a student. The average pay for a teacher with a B.S. degree in Mississippi? Just over 20k, yet their average supervisor pay? Near 40-50k. Its all a cleverly designed myth to avoid having tax payers ask for more money in education."
"Don’t know where this data came from but I would love to be making 34K like in South Dakota! I teach high school in Louisiana and I make — hope you are sitting down— $26,500 per year! Unbelieveable isn’t it!"
"I teach and reside in Boise, Idaho. I have a BA in Marketing and teaching certificate with 20 extra Early Childhood components, but am most certainly NOT making this “AVERAGE” teaching salary amount that’s posted!... I make $31,000 a year. Not bad, but I’m a single mother and have almost $1,000 out of my check each month….needless to say I work for benefits and also have a second job at night. This week alone I pawn my daughter off three nights in a row right after school to cocktail and serve. Hit the bed around 12:30 and rise at 5:30 to do it all over again! Mind you, I did not start at this pay. It was $26,000 and I’ve had to take extra classes for credit (that I paid for to move over on the pay scale to get more each month.)"
"Each morning when my class enters my room, I am not only responsible to “educate” them by the state standards and curriculum, I have now become a body guard, nurse, doctor, therapist, life skills and manners coach and in some cases a step-parent. Firedrills, lock-downs, evacuations, epi pens, cpr, crisis team are also part of our trainings. (Billy: not real name) One May morning I was met at the office by a Billy’s new Foster parent and Health and Welfare. Billy had finally returned to school after an episode the week before of “chicken pox”. Billy really returned after his father was arrested for beating Billy so badly with a belt on his back and buttocks he couldn’t move. He was not sent to school for fear WE would find out. Well, someone had previously. How long had Billy been living this way and hiding it? It wasn’t in his writings. Billy wasn’t at his grade level academically, but he knew he was in a safe haven, consistent accountability, warm meals, hugs and laughter. Do you honestly think Billy cared at all what he got on that test that day? Speaking of NCLB?!!! Billy knew he would be sent home again at the end of the day! Billy was seven years old!! Unfortunately, Ryan, your comment about summers and Holidays off are part of why teachers do get such a bad wrap. Those are fighting words for me when people comment on that. I am a single parent of two! I work another job because my salary doesn’t cut it. I work on Holidays and all summer long. Along with paying for and educating myself more by taking classes to move over on the payscale of my career! I also don’t have aids to help in the room and take my work home constantly. Bottom line…it’s absolutely disheartening that we value our educator’s so little when in fact they are helping form little minds to be that surgeon or pilot for your family someday!"
" live in California in the S.F. Bay Area. I make 78000 a year. I work 188 days (paid anyway). I’m in my twelfth year. Sounds good?? It costs an average of $600000 to buy a cracker box, 3 bedroom, 2 bath home with 1100 square feet. 78000 doesn’t go very far when you have a $3200 house payment. It’s all relative to the cost-of-living."
"I worked for 30 years as a high school special education teacher, have a BA and a MS. My last year I just broke the $50000 mark(gross not net).For much of the first 10 years I was eligible for food stamps (family of five) and other programs for those below certain income criteria. I loved the challenge of the job, loved making a difference and enjoyed the school atmosphere. Always worked summer jobs to get by. Never thought I was overpaid, however."
"I don’t know why you think teachers have it made. I have been teaching for 5 years and make $41,000 a year at one of the highest paying school districts in Arkansas. And I certainly don’t have full benefits. It would be $787 a month to have insurance on myself, my husband, and daughter. And that doesn’t include any dental, vision, or additional coverage except a $5000 life policy. They just passed a law in 2006 that finally gave teachers here lunch breaks. Until then the law actually said that we only had to be given lunch breaks 80% of the time. I think the teachers unions are a good thing or we still wouldn’t have what every everyone else has a legal right to – a chance to each lunch."
"I am a first year teacher in the Mississippi Delta. I am from the state and understand a little of what goes on. I did not go into teaching for the money, however I do feel like I should complain when I make so little yet am held accountable for little Johnny’s grades when he is yet to bring a pencil to class. If I am going to put my reputaion as a professional out on the line I would like to be duly compensated for it. As far as the pay goes; Here I make base 31,900. I believe that this 1k above the state base. I also coach and recieve no restituion. I have been punched twice this year breaking up fights. I don’t know where everyone is getting this free dental and health insurance, because in mississippi we must pay for dental, and have a large deductible on our health coverage. I take work home with me at night, can’t sleep because my administration thought it would be funny to put me in a SATP class(US history). I am currently looking to relocate, because I teach in a school of 1,100, have 5 SR officers, and one of the most dangerous gang infested areas in the state. I just had to get a few things off my chest, because im sorry, my 848.63 is not enough for what I do."
"Teachers don’t just work 9 months out of the year. Lots of states go mid-August through June. Plus, as a professional, a teacher is expected to prepare classes, crunch student assessment data, write grants for classroom/school funding, investigate new curriculum, cross-curricular opportunities, and technology, as well as keep abreast of brain research, at a minimum. When school is in session, a teacher must work at least 55 hours per week if she actually wants to provide sufficient student feedback (grade, record, turn back), so all of the above happens during that alleged 3 month break."
"I’m not a teacher but my wife and a few of my friends are teachers. I hear some of the horror stories about kids and their parents. I wouldn’t want to be teacher because I’d end up losing my cool and getting fired.
Today’s teachers have a tougher curriculum to teach and their work day doesn’t end when they leave the school as most people think. Many good teachers spend 2 hours or more at home doing work after school. Teachers deserve every cent they get and then some."
"I have been teaching in SC for over 20 years now. It is indecent the way we are treated, least in my district. We spend hours doing useless, detailed lesson plans that never seem to please the powers that be. They ride us on everything, teaching has no longer been a priority, it is meetings after meeting, and forms beyond what you would understand. I spend hours everyday filling out paperwork and I never have time to prepare for my classes the way I would like.... We also haven’t had a raise from the district in 10 years. And we do spend hours at home doing work and we have to work some during the summer."
Sorry for the long-ass post, but I just wanted to point out that my mom's story is FAR from unusual or unbelievable.
Also, did I mention that my teacher friend actually had to stop by his classroom on his way to the emergency room last week, to arrange for coverage & take care of the kids until the sub arrived?
Sorry for the long-ass post, but I just wanted to point out that my mom's story is FAR from unusual or unbelievable.
Also, did I mention that my teacher friend actually had to stop by his classroom on his way to the emergency room last week, to arrange for coverage & take care of the kids until the sub arrived?
I have no answers for teachers plight, maybe all teachers from coast to coast need to leave the profession and then maybe government will compensate you better. I know if I was a young educated professional teacher and thought I was not being compensated fairly or I thought I could do better pay wise I would probably change professions. Thats just me though.
They could move to Ontario, teachers here are not hurting financially.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Sorry for the long-ass post, but I just wanted to point out that my mom's story is FAR from unusual or unbelievable.
Also, did I mention that my teacher friend actually had to stop by his classroom on his way to the emergency room last week, to arrange for coverage & take care of the kids until the sub arrived?
I have no answers for teachers plight, maybe all teachers from coast to coast need to leave the profession and then maybe government will compensate you better. I know if I was a young educated professional teacher and thought I was not being compensated fairly or I thought I could do better pay wise I would probably change professions. Thats just me though.
They could move to Ontario, teachers here are not hurting financially.
I think it's pretty hard to go through all that schooling and incur student loans and then turn around and quit your job and go back to school, especially if you have a family to support. :(
Ooooooohhh, a few stories of teacher testimonials....gives me the shivers.
You're not changing anyone's mind like no one will get you to open your eyes that the kids do NOT come first in education. It's certainly a fact that the U.S. public education FAILS our kids, yet you refuse to admit that, address that, or even acknowledge that. Keep googling more stories... whatever. :roll:
Comments
Agreed. Sadly, we're just too selfish to put anyone in front of ourselves, regardless of the issue.
:roll:
I didn't insult you and I don't have a problem with using the word fuck on the message board of a rock band that uses the word frequently. I'm sorry if you do.
How can you POSSIBLY say you know more than I do about the cuts to my own salary - in a state where you don't even live?! That's one of the more absurd assertions I've heard on this forum.
It's ridiculous to disregard the informed ideas of people who don't have children, especially when some of us pay more attention to what's going on than the people who do have children. It's clear that you just don't have the ability to address my points.
Thank you, thank you! Unfortunately, I am not old enough to run for president, rich enough, popular enough, and I have long hair (which I don't plan on cutting any time soon) and if you've ever heard my music it's very NOT PC
That's a compliment! Pandora seems like a damn cool chick!
i think the voter turnout was like 30% for people of my generation :roll:
I was referencing the fact that she frequently says people's opinions are invalid if they're younger than she is or don't have kids.
Good point. It's time that people started thinking of people as people instead of people as geographic boundaries.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I agree.
This quote reminds me of what Bill Gates has to say in "Waiting for Superman".
http://www.makingof.com/posts/watch/241 ... bill-gates
YES :thumbup: Well stated Dave.
the day the US does that is the day to celebrate.
Having spent 7 years of my working life (though not currently) in public education as a teacher , I'll throw in my two cents worth:
For the most part, public education in America is about training worker bees- training them to punch in and punch out, to perform in a specified manner, to produce specified units of goods or services and to be obedient. For the most part, our public education system does not encourage critical thinking, skepticism or creativity. Teachers are strongly encouraged to follow specified formats. It does not take a lot of money to produce worker bees and apparently it is still easy to find teachers who will work for low professional wages and who accept that they are expected to work within specified parameters.
If this sounds like a bleak description- it is. I've know several teachers who went into that occupation with lofty goals and high expectations for doing something good and useful and eventually found that avenue to be one of futility. I'm a book dealer now. I get to spend at least as much time turning kids on to good reading as I did when I was teaching and no one chews me out for recommending books that happen to be on a banned book list. I make less money, but I'm much more content and the kids always come back for more good reading ideas.
Public Education will never receive proper funding until it becomes respected, honored and actuated as education rather than training and teachers will never be paid as they should until they are asked to be educators rather than trainers and baby sitters.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
The US doesn't have the market cornered on this. All countries think about themselves first.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I never ever even thought the things you write are least bit invalid and I have never said anything like that...
you have so very many good points in your topics even when I don't agree.
You are a bright and passionate young woman. I do not dismiss you because you are younger or not a mother
that would imply I am small minded and hearted
I hope I have proven to be neither.
Wish you could see my heart and eyes...you would know then
and thank you friends!
I really wish I could have faith in a candidate like I do VINNY GOOMBA ...
that would be a wonderful day to believe things could be just, good and fair....
now I wonder if they ever really were or if I just wanted them to be.
I have been jaded when it comes to the power of our government...the future is lookin not so bright.
If you don't think these teachers care about themselves first, don't kid yourself. A few years back they thought they might be asked to cover for absentee teacher and give up their prep, not all the time, just once in a while. Let me tell you, they said they'd go on strike if need be, It never did reach the negotiating table, probably because the school board knew that this would never fly.
Unfortunately kids really do come second...the teacher unions control education, they hold the school boards hostage. Never understood how they are not considered an essential service.
From what I've seen on 60 minutes and read New York City's teacher union is quite powerful.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
After 30 years of teaching, my mom still makes only about $40,000/year. The state legislature controls educators' annual raises (including mine) and they have not given us one for the past 4 or so years. Instead, they have taken money from our paychecks every year for the past 3 years so the state could use that money for its general fund. The only way for my mom to get a raise is to go back to school and get a master's degree. (She wanted to get one when she did her bachelor's and nearly had enough credits, but her academic advisors and professors told her it would be useless & she had two babies to raise & pay for, so she went straight to work instead.) Since retirement benefits are a percentage of your annual salary averaged over the past few year (and they're trying to make that time frame longer so we get less), she feels like she can't afford to retire unless she gets a master's. And they're telling us now that our retirement fund is facing solvency issues. Oh, and let's not forget that much of the money it takes just to run the classroom - paper & ink for the printer, the printer itself, etc. - comes out of her pocket.
Many of the teachers I have known have had to get second jobs while working and get jobs after retirement just to make ends meet. You know those old people who greet you at Walmart? Start asking around and you'll find that many of them are retired teachers.
My mom gets to work at 7 every day and school lets out around 2:30, but she frequently stays until 5-10 o'clock at night and goes in on the weekends. (I'd like to know, lukin2006, whether or not YOU were at school during nights and weekends and, if not, how can you say anyone else wasn't?) And just because the kids are out of school for three months in the summer doesn't mean the teachers are. She usually ends up getting about 6 weeks off after subtracting all the work that needs to be done to prepare for the next school year, including required meetings starting a month before the school year begins. And that's not counting all the time spent during the summer taking phone calls from kids and their parents. Oh, and those preps & lunches? She spends them either subbing for other teachers' classes to make a little extra cash (I think it comes out to about $10/hour) or helping her students with their schoolwork or social problems. Many days she never even has a chance to eat her own lunch; she sure as hell doesn't have all kinds of spare time with nothing to do.
This has been the experience of all the teachers I have known.
In addition to all the work she officially does for school, my mom spends countless hours helping out her students and former students with social issues. They call her at night, on weekends, and in the summer when they can't get along with their parents or foster parents. She buys them meals when they haven't eaten in days. She gives them rides to work and to doctor's appointments. She helps them figure out how to get pregnancy tests and birth control. Many of her students are in the foster care system (you know, that system that so many people seem to think is so great, for the unwanted kids that supposedly don't exist). They "age out" at 18 or 19 and essentially get kicked out onto the streets with few resources. Who do you think helps them find jobs and homes once the state stops giving a shit? Their teachers and former teachers, that's who. My mom. All this while being treated like shit from student and the public. All this while oftentimes having to fear for her own safety. She's too old for this shit (and no one should have to be treated as badly as teachers are anyway). But, hey, if she wants a decent retirement so, after sacrificing for kids for 30 years, she doesn't have to be an old lady facing down violent, grown students because she's too broke to retire into safety, I guess she's just fucking selfish, right? :roll:
Sure, there are some teachers who don't care enough about their students. (I guess there are, since there are selfish people in every profession. It doesn't really make sense, though, that a person who cares more about themselves than the kids would stay in a profession where they are not well-respected or well-compensated.) But for people to claim that "teachers" as a whole, or even a majority, don't care about their students is complete and utter bullshit - and it's fucking offensive. Every one of you who sits here writing disrespectful shit about teachers is able to do so only because of the wonderful teachers who taught your snot-nosed, smart-assed selves how to read and write. (I know you were snot-nosed and smart-asses because all kids are snot-nosed and smart-assed at some point.) How quickly people forget those to whom they owe their success. :(
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Actually I am there at night and they would have to sign in if they were to come in on the weekends, other than the one's who are coaching sports and it's a select few, they are gone by 2:30. The one's who sign in on the weekend is usually the Principle and custodians. I can only speak from personal experience, but from the most part teachers in Ontario have it pretty good, not to mention they are refereed to having one of the best pensions in the world, maybe only Canadian politicians have better.
As for the time off thats how much they get.
They are a very me oriented group...because of the recession and the Ontario deficit the provincial government has approached them about a wage freeze when their current contract expires, we'll see how that plays out, a few I spoke to are not happy about it, so we'll see how it plays out.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
The underlined part of your post is the most import important point in this thread. It's a tragedy & a logical fallacy that some people will use their or your personal experience to generalize an entire profession, to think they actually know about the circumstances of others when they couldn't possibly have a clue. Unfortunately, that's the kind of "logic" we see too often on this board & in this world - and I'd say it's one of the major reasons the world is as fucked up as it is.
It's pretty much the same in all of Ontario...sorry if you are offended. But here in Ontario it's pretty good job, good pay, good benefits, good benefits with far more time off than the average person.
I was not commenting about your personal situation.
I'm sure there are some places in the states that pay school teachers well...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I know you weren't commenting on my personal situation and I appreciate that. If you say teachers are generally paid well in Ontario, I'll have to believe you since I don't have any personal experience with teacher salaries in Ontario - just like others will have to believe my personal experience. By the same logic, I still don't think you can know about how all Ontario teachers spend their time or whether they care about the kids based just on your personal experience with some of them. I'm sure there are probably at least a couple of states in this country that pay teachers well, but I've never lived in any of them.
I don't believe I said they don't care about kids, I said kids come second. I just dare any government to try and pass essential service legislation and take away their right to strike, just try it, and as far as I'm concerned it is an essential service. You are right I can't say for sure how many teachers volunteer their time after school, school is from 8 - 2:15 everyday, without their prep and lunch that is a 6:15 minute day, so if they volunteer doing 1:45 extra curricular activities a day they are still only at an 8 hour day.
Now how many people work 40+ hours per week and still volunteer at something and they doing because it makes them feel good. Sorry here in Ontario, teachers do not get my sympathy, and theirs unions are something else.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Regardless, here are some of the comments I read in various places:
" My wife live and teach in Hawaii, which ranks all the way at the bottom in the pathetic 50th slot. That's why there's a teacher shortage here - it's so expensive that teachers just can't make it. The teachers that thrive here over time are locals who have inherited home equity and so don't have to worry about buying a home, and teachers who marry doctors, lawyers, etc. The general pattern is for recent college grads eager to try life in Paradise, who stay a couple of years but quickly figure out it's not worth it in the long-term."
"Unfortunately, many states start their teachers out well below what is listed here as "starting salary." Texas is one of those states. Our 2008-2009 starting salary is $27,000. I understand that's minimum, but most of our teachers actually do start at that."
"I am proud to say that I taught in two different states NY ( the city) and for 20 Yrs in MD a total of 30 yrs not counting two years of college teaching. Teaching , in and of itself, is a joyful and rewarding experience. You have to love kids and love your teaching area of expertise. When I retired 3 yrs ago I was called "teacher coordinator/ dept chair.... The administration weighed heavily on demanding too much in too little time. I was called at night, I was pulled from my class room to cover for an absent teacher, I was forced to prepare lessons for absentee teachers, I was forced to coach inept teachers that the system was not or had not dismiissed for incompetence.... I would recommend that anyone walk in a teacher's shoes for a few years before commenting on how we complain. It is an arduous job and it is only through loving children and wanting to bring about knowledge and helping others to become mindful adults that we do this job. For all those who are professionals .ask yourself,"where would I be without a teacher/".... School years have been extended, workshops and extra training is essential and when teachers leave the school house there work is never over. Their evenings are nights of correcting papers,, lesson planning and bearing up for one more day which can be hell. Respect and appreciate those who teach as it is a profession laden with love and dedication."
"Now I am teaching art and gifted art. I am not even teaching an academic, and I spend 2-4 hours everyday working at home, and another 4-8 hours every weekend, grading and preparing curriculum. After figuring my actual working hours, I am only making $12.35 per hour."
"Deliver me from the ignorant masses who think that teachers work "180 days" a year. And of course, we only work 71/2 hours a day. BULL. I teach kindergarten, and I love it, or I would not be doing it. It is work. It is consuming if you do it right, If it were only about teaching, that would be a piece of cake, sure. But it's not. It's about making sure the principle is satisfied with my work; meeting the demands of all the new programs the county thinks are the next great thing; catering to parents who think their child is the only one I have in my classroom and he/she is a perfect genius. It's also about finding time to teach 24-5 year olds how to read and write, do math, and understand science and social studies with minimal assistance while differentiating for multi-leveled learners AND assessing all these students individually in all the above mentioned areas. Oh, yea, those benefits. Yea, they're great. But if i have to take one of those "Paid' sick days, I have - while sick - to make plans for the one who will take care of my class while I'm gone, making sure they have everything they need to take care of those 24-5 year olds for the day and get them home safely. I can't just say, "put it on my desk, and I'll see about it tomorrow.""
"I'm a young teacher. I've had many jobs in my life before teaching. This is the HARDEST think I have EVER done. I'm 10 times more stressed than my friends who aren't teachers. Sure I HAVE to be at school from 7:02-2:20 but rarely do I leave before 5. Do I get compensated for that time? No. Do I still take home work? Yes. Do I eat, sleep, and breathe teaching? YES. Do I absolutely love it? YES! Why? I have no idea, I just do. Any one who says teachers have it easy, have no idea what goes on in schools today. They have no clue what a teacher has to put up with - complete lack of respect, apathetic students, new curriculum/programs yearly ... insanity is what we do. Teachers are the most important people. Without them, you don't have anyone else."
"Teachers are given the responsibility to guide our youth morally, ethically, politically, athletically, etc., etc."
"i dont know what planet some of you people are from ; but the kids i teach in an inner city school daily come with guns and drugs, if I were to be paid accordingly for working seven days a week, I would be receiving a doctors salary. I've been teaching long enough that my salary has dropped each year. Haven't seen a raise in 4yrs. My state is one of the lowest paid. To the lawyer obvisously you haven't had to deal with chronic behaviors in the classroom and out of control parents who send notes wtih their children asking you to buy shoes and coats and get mad when you dont do it. I work in a distrist that claims its broke, but surrounding districts in the same state are paying more. To the person thinking about going into teaching; your'e better off where you at if you plan on continuing to put food on the table, our salaries are so low, I qualify for food stamps, and before someone says it , this is my last year teaching, I cannot continue to live off this salary while welfare people around me are better off and they dont have to leave the house . For the folks that say they went into teaching for the kids, then why are you accepting a salary, you must have a second source to pay your bills."
"Teaching is a demanding job that includes coming early, staying late, neglecting you family sometimes (even your own children), getting little sleep, continuous education, using a lot of your money for your classroom. I teach in an urban school district with low income children and I have to say the job is very demanding. Before my students need a teacher, many times they need a mom, a nurse, a counselor. Teachers also have a lot of adminstrative duties. For example, I have to take attendance in 3 different places everyday (online, in a book and one sent to the office.) Also many districts play with teacher pay. My district just keep a two pay check this year, put in escrow and said that we'll get this check when we leave the system. Then they paid us with the deferred summer pay they deduct from our checks, making our summer check significantly smaller."
"I know very few teachers who only work 180 days a year...to being with, contracts include required inservice days (at least in Texas) and "duties assigned" which very often require weekends and holidays (at least they do in my rural school). Don't get me wrong - I love what I do. I have over 25 years in and am not nearly ready to retire. However, "sick leave" in my district is 5 days a year - it took 3 to bury my father who died on Labor Day this year. When I go to my son's wedding next week, out of town and requires that I miss another 3 days - I'll be docked a day's pay for that. And there will be no substitute hired while I'm out - other teachers will have to watch my students during their planning periods. With so little time available to be sick (or for family emergencies), accumulating time is nearly impossible. Because special ed students are now mainstreamed in science, I have classes where the IQ ranges from 85 to 120 - no aides, all modifications left to me - no one has yet to tell me how to teach physics to someone who can't read or do math. My summers are spent at part-time jobs closing the gap....still making less than $55K a year and that includes the part-time stuff. Would I do anything else for a living - like practice law? No thanks. I'd prefer to think I can still fix things and make lives better through my efforts. And, by the way, I have a doctorate, so don't suggest that graduate work would make a tremendous difference - it does, I'll likely never be out of debt."
"Most new teachers still have to get another job during the summer just to make ends meet. And many I know are working evening jobs during the school year just to get by because what they make during the day doesn't pay the bills. Forget trying to raise a family, buy a house, or have a comfortable retirement. That will never happen unless you are single with no student loan debt, or married to someone who makes a ton more money than you do."
"I find it is extremely difficult to compare teaching with other professions. I have found one example I like to use. Many people working in the private sector will ocassionally be required to present and idea to a group or to give an informational speech about something. I watch them prepare for hours, sometimes days to make sure their presentation will get the point across. As a teacher in a small district, I teach five different high school math courses, each requiriing a daily presentation. If I were allowed the same amount of time to prepare as these private sector critics, I'm sure my 180 measley days would turn into well over 500 days per year! for the lawyer working hard for a client, I see about 100 different clients every day with an equally life changing experience on the line. If anyone else thinks my job is easy - go get your secondary education degree, and your math degree - in Wisconsin you need both - and come to my class prepared to teach AP Calc AB, AP Calc BC, Pre-Calc, Algebra 2 and Algebra 1 every day with an hour and a half to prepare for all of them as well as grade all 100 assignments every day..."
" I am also a west virginia teacher with a masters plus 30 and fifteen years experience. I have also had cancer, and our health insurance did not cover anything. So with a salary of less than 40k in the part of the state that is the bedroom community for DC with DC cost of living, a retirement plan that was stolen by our governor - I too have to have a part time job. In fact on average at my school 75% of the teachers have second part-time jobs. So for those of you who think that all teachers have great health insurance, retirement packages, and loads of time off - think again. Not every state is the sameand the starting salary/average salary on this scale is not accurate. My state's starting salary is much lower. What I would like to see is the average net pay. My NET pay after taxes, health Insurance, etc (not including my personal IRA) is only 21,000."
"I have been teaching for 16 years and started at the age of 36. I absolutely love my job and my kids. (middle school) My kids love and respect me, BUT then you have the parents. Yes, I get along with most of my parents, but honey you don't have a clue what you will run into. This is something they do not teach you in school! Regarding teaching salaries--My salary started right around $19,000 I am now making 44,500, but I have completed my Master's since I started. I teach in Illinois and the average salary is misleading.... Believe me, I am teaching two college night classes and work on Saturday nights at a store for extra money! I want to be paid what I am worth."
"I currently teach public elementary school. The thing I love about my job today is the same thing I loved about my job 20 years ago--the children. My salary has moved from 23k to 49k. However, my job has changed description has changed greatly. I am no longer just a teacher. I am mother,father, social worker, nurse, lawyer, technology guru, court reporter, data doctor, production planner and production supervisor.... Getting back to my teacher salary--49k sounds pretty decent right? Lets give it a closer look. $900 a month goes to my family medical and dental insurance. We can't get cheaper insurance rates because the group we are with consistes primarily of women of child-bearing age.... I pay about $70 in NEA dues to keep bus chasing parents from trying to sue me for pulling their child off another child in a fight. Now because of budget cuts, my school system is looking into furloughing to save money.... Before anyone goes into teaching, they have to ask themselves if teaching is a career they can afford to have. Most teachers have to find some sort of side work to supplement their income--whether tutoring, selling jewelry and candles, working at the mall, waitressing, etc."
"Sure the average pay is that high…but that is including the pay of supervisors and principles that never even teach a student. The average pay for a teacher with a B.S. degree in Mississippi? Just over 20k, yet their average supervisor pay? Near 40-50k. Its all a cleverly designed myth to avoid having tax payers ask for more money in education."
"Don’t know where this data came from but I would love to be making 34K like in South Dakota! I teach high school in Louisiana and I make — hope you are sitting down— $26,500 per year! Unbelieveable isn’t it!"
"I teach and reside in Boise, Idaho. I have a BA in Marketing and teaching certificate with 20 extra Early Childhood components, but am most certainly NOT making this “AVERAGE” teaching salary amount that’s posted!... I make $31,000 a year. Not bad, but I’m a single mother and have almost $1,000 out of my check each month….needless to say I work for benefits and also have a second job at night. This week alone I pawn my daughter off three nights in a row right after school to cocktail and serve. Hit the bed around 12:30 and rise at 5:30 to do it all over again! Mind you, I did not start at this pay. It was $26,000 and I’ve had to take extra classes for credit (that I paid for to move over on the pay scale to get more each month.)"
"Each morning when my class enters my room, I am not only responsible to “educate” them by the state standards and curriculum, I have now become a body guard, nurse, doctor, therapist, life skills and manners coach and in some cases a step-parent. Firedrills, lock-downs, evacuations, epi pens, cpr, crisis team are also part of our trainings. (Billy: not real name) One May morning I was met at the office by a Billy’s new Foster parent and Health and Welfare. Billy had finally returned to school after an episode the week before of “chicken pox”. Billy really returned after his father was arrested for beating Billy so badly with a belt on his back and buttocks he couldn’t move. He was not sent to school for fear WE would find out. Well, someone had previously. How long had Billy been living this way and hiding it? It wasn’t in his writings. Billy wasn’t at his grade level academically, but he knew he was in a safe haven, consistent accountability, warm meals, hugs and laughter. Do you honestly think Billy cared at all what he got on that test that day? Speaking of NCLB?!!! Billy knew he would be sent home again at the end of the day! Billy was seven years old!! Unfortunately, Ryan, your comment about summers and Holidays off are part of why teachers do get such a bad wrap. Those are fighting words for me when people comment on that. I am a single parent of two! I work another job because my salary doesn’t cut it. I work on Holidays and all summer long. Along with paying for and educating myself more by taking classes to move over on the payscale of my career! I also don’t have aids to help in the room and take my work home constantly. Bottom line…it’s absolutely disheartening that we value our educator’s so little when in fact they are helping form little minds to be that surgeon or pilot for your family someday!"
" live in California in the S.F. Bay Area. I make 78000 a year. I work 188 days (paid anyway). I’m in my twelfth year. Sounds good?? It costs an average of $600000 to buy a cracker box, 3 bedroom, 2 bath home with 1100 square feet. 78000 doesn’t go very far when you have a $3200 house payment. It’s all relative to the cost-of-living."
"I worked for 30 years as a high school special education teacher, have a BA and a MS. My last year I just broke the $50000 mark(gross not net).For much of the first 10 years I was eligible for food stamps (family of five) and other programs for those below certain income criteria. I loved the challenge of the job, loved making a difference and enjoyed the school atmosphere. Always worked summer jobs to get by. Never thought I was overpaid, however."
"I don’t know why you think teachers have it made. I have been teaching for 5 years and make $41,000 a year at one of the highest paying school districts in Arkansas. And I certainly don’t have full benefits. It would be $787 a month to have insurance on myself, my husband, and daughter. And that doesn’t include any dental, vision, or additional coverage except a $5000 life policy. They just passed a law in 2006 that finally gave teachers here lunch breaks. Until then the law actually said that we only had to be given lunch breaks 80% of the time. I think the teachers unions are a good thing or we still wouldn’t have what every everyone else has a legal right to – a chance to each lunch."
"I am a first year teacher in the Mississippi Delta. I am from the state and understand a little of what goes on. I did not go into teaching for the money, however I do feel like I should complain when I make so little yet am held accountable for little Johnny’s grades when he is yet to bring a pencil to class. If I am going to put my reputaion as a professional out on the line I would like to be duly compensated for it. As far as the pay goes; Here I make base 31,900. I believe that this 1k above the state base. I also coach and recieve no restituion. I have been punched twice this year breaking up fights. I don’t know where everyone is getting this free dental and health insurance, because in mississippi we must pay for dental, and have a large deductible on our health coverage. I take work home with me at night, can’t sleep because my administration thought it would be funny to put me in a SATP class(US history). I am currently looking to relocate, because I teach in a school of 1,100, have 5 SR officers, and one of the most dangerous gang infested areas in the state. I just had to get a few things off my chest, because im sorry, my 848.63 is not enough for what I do."
"Teachers don’t just work 9 months out of the year. Lots of states go mid-August through June. Plus, as a professional, a teacher is expected to prepare classes, crunch student assessment data, write grants for classroom/school funding, investigate new curriculum, cross-curricular opportunities, and technology, as well as keep abreast of brain research, at a minimum. When school is in session, a teacher must work at least 55 hours per week if she actually wants to provide sufficient student feedback (grade, record, turn back), so all of the above happens during that alleged 3 month break."
"I’m not a teacher but my wife and a few of my friends are teachers. I hear some of the horror stories about kids and their parents. I wouldn’t want to be teacher because I’d end up losing my cool and getting fired.
Today’s teachers have a tougher curriculum to teach and their work day doesn’t end when they leave the school as most people think. Many good teachers spend 2 hours or more at home doing work after school. Teachers deserve every cent they get and then some."
"I have been teaching in SC for over 20 years now. It is indecent the way we are treated, least in my district. We spend hours doing useless, detailed lesson plans that never seem to please the powers that be. They ride us on everything, teaching has no longer been a priority, it is meetings after meeting, and forms beyond what you would understand. I spend hours everyday filling out paperwork and I never have time to prepare for my classes the way I would like.... We also haven’t had a raise from the district in 10 years. And we do spend hours at home doing work and we have to work some during the summer."
Also, did I mention that my teacher friend actually had to stop by his classroom on his way to the emergency room last week, to arrange for coverage & take care of the kids until the sub arrived?
I have no answers for teachers plight, maybe all teachers from coast to coast need to leave the profession and then maybe government will compensate you better. I know if I was a young educated professional teacher and thought I was not being compensated fairly or I thought I could do better pay wise I would probably change professions. Thats just me though.
They could move to Ontario, teachers here are not hurting financially.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I think it's pretty hard to go through all that schooling and incur student loans and then turn around and quit your job and go back to school, especially if you have a family to support. :(
You're not changing anyone's mind like no one will get you to open your eyes that the kids do NOT come first in education. It's certainly a fact that the U.S. public education FAILS our kids, yet you refuse to admit that, address that, or even acknowledge that. Keep googling more stories... whatever. :roll: