canadian government held in contemp

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  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    lukin2006 wrote:
    As far as the long form census goes, I'm with Harper on that, most of that info is none of the governments business. I remember my parents filling one out when I was a kid and one of the questions was what religion was each member of your household, once again not the governments business, but if people want volunteer the info, then go ahead.

    The Long form census is a very important of leading a country, the information provided help our country figure out how the country is going. it provides valuable information to our elected leaders and also makes sure that the government is creating policies not just for the now but also for the future. By taking away the Long form census, the government can state any "facts" they want to show and not be held accountable.

    Thats why you can have Harper and his government talk about unreported crime and how we must build more prisons.
    I can also get into how even business and social services agencies also use this info.

    here are some reason why these forms are important.

    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/cens ... ctors-warn

    http://www.psac-afpc.org/news/2010/issu ... 2b-e.shtml

    http://www.wellesleyinstitute.com/blog/ ... l-council/
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/NHS-ENM/ref/ ... ng.cfm#Q22

    I don't know if people have ever seen the census so i thought it might be good for people to read.
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    here is the party that people trust :?

    http://wn.com/Stephen_Harper%27s_Broken ... st_Promise
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    fife wrote:
    here is the party that people trust :?

    http://wn.com/Stephen_Harper%27s_Broken ... st_Promise

    clearly didn't make a difference ... the reality is that the majority of conservatives voters vote blindly ...
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    polaris_x wrote:
    fife wrote:
    here is the party that people trust :?

    http://wn.com/Stephen_Harper%27s_Broken ... st_Promise

    clearly didn't make a difference ... the reality is that the majority of conservatives voters vote blindly ...

    Thats true but where the hell are the liberals and NDP and bloc in reminding people. where is the media is all this. where is the uproar from the media about how Harper only allows 5 questions which are pre approved by his office. Hell even a junior staff member has talked about this.
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    fife wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:
    As far as the long form census goes, I'm with Harper on that, most of that info is none of the governments business. I remember my parents filling one out when I was a kid and one of the questions was what religion was each member of your household, once again not the governments business, but if people want volunteer the info, then go ahead.

    The Long form census is a very important of leading a country, the information provided help our country figure out how the country is going. it provides valuable information to our elected leaders and also makes sure that the government is creating policies not just for the now but also for the future. By taking away the Long form census, the government can state any "facts" they want to show and not be held accountable.

    Thats why you can have Harper and his government talk about unreported crime and how we must build more prisons.
    I can also get into how even business and social services agencies also use this info.

    here are some reason why these forms are important.

    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/cens ... ctors-warn

    http://www.psac-afpc.org/news/2010/issu ... 2b-e.shtml

    http://www.wellesleyinstitute.com/blog/ ... l-council/

    Then come up with a system that makes it voluntary, but I am not interested in providing the government information, they know to much and always want to more, nosie pricks... :D:D
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    polaris_x wrote:
    bytterman wrote:
    In some respects our economy, at least our banking sector, is envied internationally. I don't think that's debatable, although other aspects of how we fared out of the recession certainly are. Anyway Harper has always shielded himself from the unscripted, that's why the debates are so important, and why having four people attack him reduces the value of the excercise. Hopefully the moderator can get them to use their inside voices...

    our banking sector is definitely what saved us to some respect ... but guess what the economists at the banks want? ... not more corporate tax cuts and such ... the chief ecnomist for TD wrote a few years ago that a strong social infrastructure is what is key to a stable economy and that prosperity gaps are not good overall ... case in point: the US ... well - harper is taking us down that road ...

    How you going to pay for this? Also the responsibilities for social programs falls on the provinces as well, 2 of the biggest social programs, education and health are the provinces responsibility, the feds provide transfer payments, but lately I haven't heard any province complaining about transfer payments.

    I know, raise corporate taxes, and if corporation and manufacturers pack up and leave, who pays? where do these folks get jobs? I'll guarantee you 1000% that if you went to a community like chatham-kent and did a survey that asked the question would you rather see corporate taxes go up or would you rather see a auto manufacturing plant paying in the 20's locate in your community, guarantee over 90% would choose the jobs.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • bytterman
    bytterman Posts: 136
    polaris_x wrote:
    fife wrote:
    here is the party that people trust :?

    http://wn.com/Stephen_Harper%27s_Broken ... st_Promise

    clearly didn't make a difference ... the reality is that the majority of conservatives voters vote blindly ...

    Not just conservative voters, there are blind opinions on all sides of the spectrum. I'd forgotten about the income trust thing.
  • bytterman
    bytterman Posts: 136
    fife wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    fife wrote:
    here is the party that people trust :?

    http://wn.com/Stephen_Harper%27s_Broken ... st_Promise

    clearly didn't make a difference ... the reality is that the majority of conservatives voters vote blindly ...

    Thats true but where the hell are the liberals and NDP and bloc in reminding people. where is the media is all this. where is the uproar from the media about how Harper only allows 5 questions which are pre approved by his office. Hell even a junior staff member has talked about this.

    The media have bitched about the control Harper exercises since at least 2006. Regardless, the media's job is not to lead but to report, keeping fact and opinion very distinct.
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Who do you vote for anyways, the Liberals and NDP are making promises that they are unlikely to keep or can"t afford, and the promises Harper is making won't happen till the deficit is paid.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    lukin2006 wrote:
    fife wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:
    As far as the long form census goes, I'm with Harper on that, most of that info is none of the governments business. I remember my parents filling one out when I was a kid and one of the questions was what religion was each member of your household, once again not the governments business, but if people want volunteer the info, then go ahead.

    The Long form census is a very important of leading a country, the information provided help our country figure out how the country is going. it provides valuable information to our elected leaders and also makes sure that the government is creating policies not just for the now but also for the future. By taking away the Long form census, the government can state any "facts" they want to show and not be held accountable.

    Thats why you can have Harper and his government talk about unreported crime and how we must build more prisons.
    I can also get into how even business and social services agencies also use this info.

    here are some reason why these forms are important.

    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/cens ... ctors-warn

    http://www.psac-afpc.org/news/2010/issu ... 2b-e.shtml

    http://www.wellesleyinstitute.com/blog/ ... l-council/

    Then come up with a system that makes it voluntary, but I am not interested in providing the government information, they know to much and always want to more, nosie pricks... :D:D

    making in voluntary makes the stats unreliable. it doesn't help anyone
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Who do you vote for anyways, the Liberals and NDP are making promises that they are unlikely to keep or can"t afford, and the promises Harper is making won't happen till the deficit is paid.

    come on, you can't believe that about Harper. the guy has lied multiple times. I personally don't trust him.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    lukin2006 wrote:
    How you going to pay for this? Also the responsibilities for social programs falls on the provinces as well, 2 of the biggest social programs, education and health are the provinces responsibility, the feds provide transfer payments, but lately I haven't heard any province complaining about transfer payments.

    I know, raise corporate taxes, and if corporation and manufacturers pack up and leave, who pays? where do these folks get jobs? I'll guarantee you 1000% that if you went to a community like chatham-kent and did a survey that asked the question would you rather see corporate taxes go up or would you rather see a auto manufacturing plant paying in the 20's locate in your community, guarantee over 90% would choose the jobs.

    well - who's gonna pay when we have high unemployment, who's gonna pay because people are getting less healthy with polluted air and water? ... it's all interconnected ... when you cut day care and after school programs ... guess what - there are long term consequences ... that we all ultimately pay for ...

    manufacturers are already gone - and it has nothing to do with tax rates ... it's a myth that corporations pay too much taxes and it's also a myth that if they get tax cuts, they are going to higher more people ... corps are laying off people everywhere ...

    look at all these towns in SW Ontario ... they are all depressed economies ... what has the conservative policy done for these communities?

    the whole trickle down economics theory doesn't work ... never has ...
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Who do you vote for anyways, the Liberals and NDP are making promises that they are unlikely to keep or can"t afford, and the promises Harper is making won't happen till the deficit is paid.

    The only way he's gonna get rid of the defecit is through gutting programs ... he's gutted environment - so, i'm guessing health is next ... as we know he won't raise taxes ...

    it is in our best interest to not let Harper have his majority ... plain and simple ... we need to force him to WORK with other parties from the Centre ... it's his unwillingness that is bringing about this election ...

    he says he doesn't have a hidden agenda ... but look at his work on this afghan torture file, human rights commission, CIDA, the environment, etc ... all these independent boards that used to work at arms length because they shouldn't be politicized are now being micro-managed from the PMO with a ideological agenda ... we HAD a reputation around the world for being a JUST society ... not anymore ...
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    fife wrote:
    making in voluntary makes the stats unreliable. it doesn't help anyone

    it's voluntary because the people that most likely will not fill it out are minorities ... or as harper likes to call em' - You People ...
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    [

    Thats true but where the hell are the liberals and NDP and bloc in reminding people. where is the media is all this. where is the uproar from the media about how Harper only allows 5 questions which are pre approved by his office. Hell even a junior staff member has talked about this.[/quote]

    The media have bitched about the control Harper exercises since at least 2006. Regardless, the media's job is not to lead but to report, keeping fact and opinion very distinct.[/quote]

    I agree but don't you think the media should be reporting things such as not having the ability to asking our leaders (the people we pay) question about what they are doing or not doing.

    Also, what do you mean that the media job is not to lead but to report?
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    ok ... i know i'm a west of left socialist treehugger that would like a green party gov't ... but i acknowledge the rest of canada is not ready for that ...

    so, despite my despise for the liberals and conservatives ... i think in the interests of Canada - a liberal minority would be the best outcome ... :(
  • bytterman
    bytterman Posts: 136
    I agree but don't you think the media should be reporting things such as not having the ability to asking our leaders (the people we pay) question about what they are doing or not doing.

    Also, what do you mean that the media job is not to lead but to report?[/quote]

    The media are reporting that story, maybe they aren't giving it the importance you think it merits but it can't be said that it's not in the press.
    To the media leading question: they aren't elected. There are plenty of people who understand the specifics better than me, but an intelligent, critical, and most of all free press is essential for the function of a healthy democracy. By free I mean from government interference (although an interesting argument could be made about free information too...free internet and G&M for all Canadians?). The media must to be able to criticize the government objectively, but in so doing they're holding them accountable on our behalf, not their own. It isn't their job to tell us how to use information, but rather to provide it.
  • bytterman
    bytterman Posts: 136
    polaris_x wrote:
    ok ... i know i'm a west of left socialist treehugger that would like a green party gov't ... but i acknowledge the rest of canada is not ready for that ...

    so, despite my despise for the liberals and conservatives ... i think in the interests of Canada - a liberal minority would be the best outcome ... :(

    I'm not at all interested in a minority government propped up issue by issue, because we're already in an endless election cycle. What about a co-governance coalition, with Ignatieff as PM (assuming he'd win the most seats) but with Layton and perhaps other NDPers in cabinet, not merely friendly Opposition? I don't think in any of our coalition discussion that sort of thing has come up, but that's how coalitions work in other places. As long as they were fiscally responsible might be worth a crack.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    bytterman wrote:
    I'm not at all interested in a minority government propped up issue by issue, because we're already in an endless election cycle. What about a co-governance coalition, with Ignatieff as PM (assuming he'd win the most seats) but with Layton and perhaps other NDPers in cabinet, not merely friendly Opposition? I don't think in any of our coalition discussion that sort of thing has come up, but that's how coalitions work in other places. As long as they were fiscally responsible might be worth a crack.

    the only reason why our minority gov't isn't working now is because Harper is leaning too far right ... a minority gov't would work best with a liberal pm ... simply because it then doesn't allow them to do whatever the heck they want (we've already seen that outcome) ...

    we would seriously not be in this election cycle if harper moved to the centre ... but he's power hungry ...

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