This could matter, last time the Lib/NDP together were within a couple of thousand votes of the Tory winner.
the wildcard is really 65% of the population that are generally not engaged politically ... i suspect conservative voters will turn out en masse ... but will the rest of the public? ... i have a feeling they won't ... also, will the centre-left of the country mobilize!?? ... and get people to vote strategically?
This could matter, last time the Lib/NDP together were within a couple of thousand votes of the Tory winner.
the wildcard is really 65% of the population that are generally not engaged politically ... i suspect conservative voters will turn out en masse ... but will the rest of the public? ... i have a feeling they won't ... also, will the centre-left of the country mobilize!?? ... and get people to vote strategically?
Good call about the lack of engagement providing the uncertainty. Polls typically have something around 20-25% undecided, if they vote who knows, but that's a big if. Early on in this thread the probability of a pathetic voter turn-out was raised, and it doesn't seem that much has changed there. Talked with a friend last night who is definitely engaged/aware/interested politically, but he's struggling to care this time around. Wonder how common that is?
But the intention of (or need for) strategic voting came up in 2008 as well (and possibly earlier) and it doesn't seem to have much effect. Lots of people vote for a party more than a particular candidate, and for a life-long NDP supporter voting Liberal isn't easy, regardless of what they think about Harper.
All this talk of strategic voting has to have a negative impact on people. In Canada we don"t vote for the PM directly. As far as I'm concerned people need to put in the best candidate possible and the one who represent's your interest. I also try to keep in mind that you never know if you'll need them to help you out with a government agency, so you want to make sure you have the most qualified. I have that here, he is NDP, I would never encourage someone to vote for a PC or Liberal here.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
All this talk of strategic voting has to have a negative impact on people. In Canada we don"t vote for the PM directly. As far as I'm concerned people need to put in the best candidate possible and the one who represent's your interest. I also try to keep in mind that you never know if you'll need them to help you out with a government agency, so you want to make sure you have the most qualified. I have that here, he is NDP, I would never encourage someone to vote for a PC or Liberal here.
i dunno ... i'm fortunate in that the conservatives finish last in my riding ... even lower than the green candidate ... however, as much as I believe in the necessity of "third-party" candidates ... i think a harper majority would be bad for the country and i suspect that if i was in a similar position - i would vote strategic ....
If I recall correctly the 2008 debate, it seemed like 4 on 1, attacking Harper, I did not really recall what the other 4 were going to do to make life better for Canadians, so if thats what they do this time, then whats the point.
Just like this campaign, whats the point, lets vote already. All parties are making promises that can't be kept or won't be kept. I was ready to support Layton until he went off about the credit card interest rates, like really, that's an issue of personal responsibility, don't use them if you don't like the interest rates, duh.
Iggy and is $1000 a year for post secondary education, in which he eliminates 2 credits, so this really amounts to $480 a year.
Harper's income splitting which will cost 2.5 billion a year and only really work for those who probably don't need the help.
Typical Canadian politics, full of bullshit.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
If I recall correctly the 2008 debate, it seemed like 4 on 1, attacking Harper, I did not really recall what the other 4 were going to do to make life better for Canadians, so if thats what they do this time, then whats the point.
Just like this campaign, whats the point, lets vote already. All parties are making promises that can't be kept or won't be kept. I was ready to support Layton until he went off about the credit card interest rates, like really, that's an issue of personal responsibility, don't use them if you don't like the interest rates, duh.
Iggy and is $1000 a year for post secondary education, in which he eliminates 2 credits, so this really amounts to $480 a year.
Harper's income splitting which will cost 2.5 billion a year and only really work for those who probably don't need the help.
Typical Canadian politics, full of bullshit.
Like I said before, all these leaders need to go and be replaced, we should do as Belgium and have no government.
If I recall correctly the 2008 debate, it seemed like 4 on 1, attacking Harper, I did not really recall what the other 4 were going to do to make life better for Canadians, so if thats what they do this time, then whats the point.
That's my recollection as well, and is why I agree completely with the suggestion of a Harper v Ignatieff debate. The 2008 English debate was just Question Period, which is an embarrassment.
Just like this campaign, whats the point, lets vote already. All parties are making promises that can't be kept or won't be kept. I was ready to support Layton until he went off about the credit card interest rates, like really, that's an issue of personal responsibility, don't use them if you don't like the interest rates, duh.
The interest thing is asinine and nanny-stateish; he's blaming the banks for the stupidity of the individual. The funny thing is that he'd actually realize his goal, because the banks will simply issue less credit, and we all know from which end of the income spectrum. No credit cards, no problem.
Iggy and is $1000 a year for post secondary education, in which he eliminates 2 credits, so this really amounts to $480 a year. Harper's income splitting which will cost 2.5 billion a year and only really work for those who probably don't need the help.
I can't see who Harper's trying to woo with income splitting. I think that Ignatieff should be looking at more than university/college and do something to get people into vocational training. We've got plenty of degree-holders driving hack as it is, let's have some skilled trades please.
I can't see who Harper's trying to woo with income splitting. I think that Ignatieff should be looking at more than university/college and do something to get people into vocational training. We've got plenty of degree-holders driving hack as it is, let's have some skilled trades please.
I agree 1000% about needing vocational training. We need to get that type of training started high school. They have been removing auto shop and electrical, etc. from schools. Not every student who takes these courses will pursue the trades but if you get the hook in just few in every school it will give these kids great careers and with excellent pay. The reason they are being removed is the cost to operate programs such as auto, the government needs to get funding into place for these programs in high school.
My dad was maintenance mechanic and went to school in the 50's to a vocational high school, apprenticed for 4 years and never once laid off or out of work, made a good income.
Thats the problem with these clowns running today, none of them are talking about what most of us are concerned about, the lack of good paying jobs, getting people re-trained into good jobs, the high cost of living, the fact that taxes are to high and you could go on, they just don't want to face reality.
I do not want to hear about these bullshit green energy jobs that are too few, and poorly paid. A solar plant just hired about 80 people, average pay $14/hour. The government should have been busting their tail to save the auto industry/or offering incentives to get these companies here, they pay mid 20's. I am opposed to direct incentives, but if you get a Honda or Toyota here for 20-30 years you'll probably get any incentives back quite easily.
The whole process is a joke, then the wonder why people don't vote, imo.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
My favourite part of the article is he wants to spend 1 million so veterans can go from helmets to hard hats and get jobs in the construction industry. First question why construction? Why not any vocational training, college or university they want? I wonder if he consulted veterans, maybe after serving in noising war zones or peace keeping operations the last place they want to be is a noisy construction site.
Seriously can we do as Belgium and just skip the government, if this is the best this country can do we are in trouble!!!
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Wants to double CPP, which means they'll have to raise premiums considerably to pay for this. Any fixing of CPP should be done voluntarily and those who want their CPP doubled should pay for it. How can Layton speak for me? I have a good company pension, and put money away on the side, the last thing I need is for more payroll taxes. I been looking after my retirement for 20 years, like I'm suppose to.
I was ready to support him, but all the NDP want to do his come up with these wild ideas that's sure to reduce my take home pay.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
i'm not sure what Layton is doing to be quite honest ... he's highlighting all these programs that have very little resonance with the general public ...
if i was the campaign strategist for the leaders - here would be my focus:
Harper: Continue with negative ads and fear mongering; continue to not offer anything of substance
Ignatieff: Focus on Harper's record as PM - he's literally done nothing for the country except create massive debt and give us a bad name internationally.
Layton: Focus on the fact he isn't Harper or Ignatieff and that the NDP can govern from the centre without satisfying specific agendas and corporate bases ...
May: Address notions of democracy to keep Green party in the news. Focus on winning the 2 or 3 seats they have a shot at including hers in Victoria.
Wants to double CPP, which means they'll have to raise premiums considerably to pay for this. Any fixing of CPP should be done voluntarily and those who want their CPP doubled should pay for it. How can Layton speak for me? I have a good company pension, and put money away on the side, the last thing I need is for more payroll taxes. I been looking after my retirement for 20 years, like I'm suppose to.
I was ready to support him, but all the NDP want to do his come up with these wild ideas that's sure to reduce my take home pay.
From the G&M article on the topic...
"Pensioners and workers on long-term disability would be the first creditors to collect when a company goes under, according to the NDP proposal."
I can't believe that I'm about to type this, but I completely agree with Layton on that point. However, in principal I agree that it should be our choice, and some sort of opt-out should exist. I'm not an actuary but frankly I'd like to see the analysis, not the musings of a politician in election-mode. How does the changing age-structure of our work-force (e.g. the boomer retirement) impact the cost and funding of the plan today and 15 years from now? How certain is the 2.5% premium hike he's talking about? Can he guarantee that 20-odd years from now there will be a CPP from which I can collect what I've contributed? I'm pretty sure I can predict his answers to those questions, but still worth asking.
i'm not sure what Layton is doing to be quite honest ... he's highlighting all these programs that have very little resonance with the general public ...
if i was the campaign strategist for the leaders - here would be my focus:
Harper: Continue with negative ads and fear mongering; continue to not offer anything of substance
Ignatieff: Focus on Harper's record as PM - he's literally done nothing for the country except create massive debt and give us a bad name internationally.
Ignatieff also needs to convince us that he's PM material, and I don't think that simply telling us how awful Harper was/is suffices in that regard. Harper had plenty of help establishing big deficits (e.g. the recession cannot be laid at his feet), and he inherited a massive debt that's been growing pretty consistently since at least Trudeau's time. Very difficult for to trash him solely on economics, imo. The nastiness of our politics, well that's another story entirely, one that probably is entirely Harper.
Layton: Focus on the fact he isn't Harper or Ignatieff and that the NDP can govern from the centre without satisfying specific agendas and corporate bases ...
At least part of his base (labour) has pretty specific agendas that need heeding, no?
And thats what I thought Layton would do. I don't have a problem with them doing something with CPP, just that it should be voluntary, because there are a lot of people that have done a good job of preparing for retirement on there own and raising CPP premiums considerably would interfere with my plan and their plan as well.
As of now, neither leader is worthy of being PM.
I love these Iggy quotes.
Are we talking about the same Michael Ignatieff who praised the United States, going so far as to call himself an American?
“You have to decide what kind of America you want...It’s your country just as much as it is mine.” (C-SPAN, June 17, 2004)
“I want to make it clear; there isn't an anti-American bone in my body. I love the republic I live in.” (Sunday Edition with Michael Enright, CBC Radio, Sept. 16, 2001.
“I think that one of the ‐--‐ that almost the nemesis of American power is that we are deeply hated and simultaneously supposed to have magical powers.” (Charlie Rose Show, April 28, 2004)
Are we talking about the same Michael Ignatieff who repeatedly bashed Canada, its flag and its people?
Ignatieff told an interviewer that “the only thing he missed about Canada was Algonquin Park”. (Maclean’s, November 20, 2006)
Ignatieff described the Canadian flag as “a passing imitation of a beer label” (The Observer, July 8, 1990), and
Ignatieff said, "Quebeckers walk around with this fantasy of how different they are, but they are just North Americans who speak French...They take the minor difference and magnify it." (Globe and Mail. April 2, 1998)
The JC era was extremely flawed and only 3 majorities because the opposition was so weak.
LIST OF LIBERAL SCANDALS
1. Cancelling the Sea King replacement
2. Sponsorship scandal
3. Gun Registry
4. HRDC fraud boondoggle
5. Problems with Transition Job Funds program
6. Tainted blood
7. Radwanski Spending Affair
8. Pearson Airport
9. GST Flip Flop
10. Airbus Investigation
11. Voting against Red Book promise of independent Ethics Commissioner
12. Irving fishing lodge stays/travel on Irving jets for cabinet ministers
13. Martin traveling on private corporate jets as Finance Minister
14. Don Boudria’s stay at Boulay owned chalet
15. Denis Coderre staying with Boulay
16. Alfonso Gagliano being appointed Ambassador to Denmark
17. Shawinigate
18. Claude Gauthier (PM’s friend)’s Transelec getting CIDA grant that was questioned by the Auditor General and even CIDA.
19. Liberal fundraiser Pierre Corbeil charged with fraud by RCMP after he approached several Quebec companies seeking federal job training grants and asking for payments to Liberal Party, having gotten the names from senior Quebec Liberal Minister, Marcel Massé.
20. Michel Dupuy, Heritage Minister, lobbying the CRTC.
21. Tom Wappel refusing to help blind veteran
22. Gagliano’s son benefiting from contracts from his father’s department
23. Gagliano’s former speechwriter, Michèle Tremblay was on a $5,000 a month retainer with the Canada Lands Company to provide speeches for the Minister. Former President John Grant let her go saying “we got nothing in return.” Grant claimed that all Crown Corporations reporting to Mr. Gagliano were told to put Ms. Tremblay on a monthly retainer.
24. Iltis replacement
25. Purchase of new Challenger jets for the Prime Minister and cabinet
26. NATO Flying Training program contract
27. Liberal friends appointed as IRB judges being investigated by RCMP
28. Hedy Fry’s imaginary burning crosses
29. Maria Minna’s improper municipal vote
30. Minna giving contracts to two former campaign staffers for public relations work for a conference that had already been held
31. Lawrence MacAulay and contracts directed to Holland College
32. Lawrence MacAulay and Tim Banks
33. Lawrence MacAulay hired his official agent, Everett Roche, for $70K, but Roche never did any work for it. (Oct 2002)
34. Art Eggleton and contracts to his ex-girlfriend
35. Copps’ aide Boyer’s spending habits
36. Collenette resigns for breach of ethical guidelines involving a letter he wrote to the Immigration and Refugee Board
37. APEC Inquiry
38. Andy Scott's 1998 resignation that came eight weeks too late, after a media circus wore him down for indiscreetly shooting his mouth off on an airplane.
39. Anti-American comments by Liberal MPs, officials, and the former Minister of Natural Resources.
40. Rock and the Apotex/Cipro affair
41. Rock giving Health Canada contract to car cleaning company.
JC and Martin are to blame for the deficits that many of the provinces have accumulated because they cut transfer payments to the provinces back in the 90's
A big complaint of mine is the mismanagement of EI system, the liberals were allowed to build up this big surplus 50 +billion. Whatever happened to it? For me now it's kind of irrelevant what happened to it.
It should never have been allowed to grow that big. The money should only be allowed to be spent on out of work workers. The EI needs a board that consist of members from the Canadian Labor Congress, Provincial Labor Congress as well as a representative from the union to help keep an eye on the fund, no loger should government be making decisions alone on what to do with the EI fund.
I highly doubt any majority will be formed from this election...but I really think the first party that gets rid of it's leader and decides to move his/her party to the centre has a good chance at forming a majority in the future.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
the biggest reason for our defecit now are the tax cuts that have primarily benefited the wealthy ... and done very little for the economy ... yes, we had to spend when the economy was going south but we could have had a fund to do so but he was too busy making his base happy ...
what makes someone PM worthy? ... i mean stephane dion was clearly outed as NOT being worthy but the guy had integrity ... something you can't say about Iggy and Harper ... i'd much rather have a guy who looks like a dweeb be PM as long as he had some integrity and truly governed in the interests of all canadians ...
you guys hear about Harper's speech to ethnic minorities ... where he calls them "You People"? ... it's funny how he's pandering for their vote but you know he has a personal disdain for them ... (see long form census)
And thats what I thought Layton would do. I don't have a problem with them doing something with CPP, just that it should be voluntary, because there are a lot of people that have done a good job of preparing for retirement on there own and raising CPP premiums considerably would interfere with my plan and their plan as well. As of now, neither leader is worthy of being PM.
Being honest I can live with 2.5% as long as I know how it's being managed. I haven't been preparing for retirement particularly well, at least partly due to resisting the urge to graduate for far too long, but now my CPP contributions are substantial, and I just want to know that I might be able to benefit. I think that this topic resonates with the electorate though, so he'll have pleased some and pissed off others.
JC and Martin are to blame for the deficits that many of the provinces have accumulated because they cut transfer payments to the provinces back in the 90's
At the end of the Mulroney years our federal fiscal problems were horrendous, something near 30 cents of every dollar we shipped to Ottawa went to paying the interest on the debt. Not sure about the number today but it's better, and I think it impossible to see that as a bad thing.
Whoa, I just defended Chretien and agreed with Layton on the same day...
the biggest reason for our defecit now are the tax cuts that have primarily benefited the wealthy ... and done very little for the economy ... yes, we had to spend when the economy was going south but we could have had a fund to do so but he was too busy making his base happy ...
what makes someone PM worthy? ... i mean stephane dion was clearly outed as NOT being worthy but the guy had integrity ... something you can't say about Iggy and Harper ... i'd much rather have a guy who looks like a dweeb be PM as long as he had some integrity and truly governed in the interests of all canadians ...
you guys hear about Harper's speech to ethnic minorities ... where he calls them "You People"? ... it's funny how he's pandering for their vote but you know he has a personal disdain for them ... (see long form census)
All politicians pander to their base, at least as long as they want to be re-elected, which seems job 1. Dion was also pandering to a base, but it wasn't as big as he'd hoped or thought, and in some ways I think the Greens have the same problem.
The 'you people' speech was out west last week, speaking to an Indo-Canadian group, right?
the biggest reason for our defecit now are the tax cuts that have primarily benefited the wealthy ... and done very little for the economy ... yes, we had to spend when the economy was going south but we could have had a fund to do so but he was too busy making his base happy ...
what makes someone PM worthy? ... i mean stephane dion was clearly outed as NOT being worthy but the guy had integrity ... something you can't say about Iggy and Harper ... i'd much rather have a guy who looks like a dweeb be PM as long as he had some integrity and truly governed in the interests of all canadians ...
you guys hear about Harper's speech to ethnic minorities ... where he calls them "You People"? ... it's funny how he's pandering for their vote but you know he has a personal disdain for them ... (see long form census)
Dion got outed by his own party, I think even the most optimistic liberal didn't think Dion would win at his first crack at PM.
I was talking about provincial deficits, they cut transfer payment so many of the provinces ended having to run deficits to keep up.
Yes federally thats part of the deficit problem, no doubt, he also cut the GST, which has contributed to the deficit problem, he also increased transfer payments to the provinces that has contributed to the deficit.
I don't know much about tax rates...I kind of see three choices we have...we need competitive corporate tax, a lower $$$, or lower wages. I don't see the $$$ going below 90 cents in the near future, unless we manipulate the currency like China (lets not), lower wages, well thats kind of happening now, but our economy is not based on the vast majority of people working for low wages. In my opinion if we can get business's like Toyota or Honda here because we have the lowest or most competitive tax rates I'm on board, those companies are good companies that employ anywhere from 1000-2000 people making very liveable wages, but if where have those green energy jobs then screw them...a solar plant near here was hiring 80 people and the pay was 14 an hour, not exactly great wages. I'd rather go after the auto jobs and get new plants opening up, pretty sure Honda and Toyota will be here 30 years from now, not so sure about that solar plant.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
All politicians pander to their base, at least as long as they want to be re-elected, which seems job 1. Dion was also pandering to a base, but it wasn't as big as he'd hoped or thought, and in some ways I think the Greens have the same problem.
The 'you people' speech was out west last week, speaking to an Indo-Canadian group, right?
true ... but what i meant by base isn't the demographic that votes conservative ... i'm refering to the people that fund and set policy for the conservatives ...
and yeah ... it was a speech to the southasian population in etobicok/brampton
I found these 2 articles interesting. I am still looking for the TV ad where Harper is talking about how canada economy is doing great and how it is the envy of the world. but will post that up when i find it.
Dion got outed by his own party, I think even the most optimistic liberal didn't think Dion would win at his first crack at PM.
I was talking about provincial deficits, they cut transfer payment so many of the provinces ended having to run deficits to keep up.
Yes federally thats part of the deficit problem, no doubt, he also cut the GST, which has contributed to the deficit problem, he also increased transfer payments to the provinces that has contributed to the deficit.
I don't know much about tax rates...I kind of see three choices we have...we need competitive corporate tax, a lower $$$, or lower wages. I don't see the $$$ going below 90 cents in the near future, unless we manipulate the currency like China (lets not), lower wages, well thats kind of happening now, but our economy is not based on the vast majority of people working for low wages. In my opinion if we can get business's like Toyota or Honda here because we have the lowest or most competitive tax rates I'm on board, those companies are good companies that employ anywhere from 1000-2000 people making very liveable wages, but if where have those green energy jobs then screw them...a solar plant near here was hiring 80 people and the pay was 14 an hour, not exactly great wages. I'd rather go after the auto jobs and get new plants opening up, pretty sure Honda and Toyota will be here 30 years from now, not so sure about that solar plant.
he got railroaded by the old school liberals who are disconnected with the populace ...
i think you are saying he cut trasfer payments and increased transfer payments ... not sure ...
i'm all for decent paying and fair pay ... but auto jobs are ridiculous ... is it any wonder they all had problems ...
As far as the long form census goes, I'm with Harper on that, most of that info is none of the governments business. I remember my parents filling one out when I was a kid and one of the questions was what religion was each member of your household, once again not the governments business, but if people want volunteer the info, then go ahead.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Dion got outed by his own party, I think even the most optimistic liberal didn't think Dion would win at his first crack at PM.
I was talking about provincial deficits, they cut transfer payment so many of the provinces ended having to run deficits to keep up.
Yes federally thats part of the deficit problem, no doubt, he also cut the GST, which has contributed to the deficit problem, he also increased transfer payments to the provinces that has contributed to the deficit.
I don't know much about tax rates...I kind of see three choices we have...we need competitive corporate tax, a lower $$$, or lower wages. I don't see the $$$ going below 90 cents in the near future, unless we manipulate the currency like China (lets not), lower wages, well thats kind of happening now, but our economy is not based on the vast majority of people working for low wages. In my opinion if we can get business's like Toyota or Honda here because we have the lowest or most competitive tax rates I'm on board, those companies are good companies that employ anywhere from 1000-2000 people making very liveable wages, but if where have those green energy jobs then screw them...a solar plant near here was hiring 80 people and the pay was 14 an hour, not exactly great wages. I'd rather go after the auto jobs and get new plants opening up, pretty sure Honda and Toyota will be here 30 years from now, not so sure about that solar plant.
he got railroaded by the old school liberals who are disconnected with the populace ...
i think you are saying he cut trasfer payments and increased transfer payments ... not sure ...
i'm all for decent paying and fair pay ... but auto jobs are ridiculous ... is it any wonder they all had problems ...
Martin and Chretien cut transfer and Harper negotiated a deal with the provinces to increase transfer payments.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I found these 2 articles interesting. I am still looking for the TV ad where Harper is talking about how canada economy is doing great and how it is the envy of the world. but will post that up when i find it.
uhhh ... he's been doing it for 4 years ... i particularly love how all questions to the PM DURING A FUCKING ELECTION have to be screened ...
I found these 2 articles interesting. I am still looking for the TV ad where Harper is talking about how canada economy is doing great and how it is the envy of the world. but will post that up when i find it.
uhhh ... he's been doing it for 4 years ... i particularly love how all questions to the PM DURING A FUCKING ELECTION have to be screened ...
In some respects our economy, at least our banking sector, is envied internationally. I don't think that's debatable, although other aspects of how we fared out of the recession certainly are. Anyway Harper has always shielded himself from the unscripted, that's why the debates are so important, and why having four people attack him reduces the value of the excercise. Hopefully the moderator can get them to use their inside voices...
In some respects our economy, at least our banking sector, is envied internationally. I don't think that's debatable, although other aspects of how we fared out of the recession certainly are. Anyway Harper has always shielded himself from the unscripted, that's why the debates are so important, and why having four people attack him reduces the value of the excercise. Hopefully the moderator can get them to use their inside voices...
our banking sector is definitely what saved us to some respect ... but guess what the economists at the banks want? ... not more corporate tax cuts and such ... the chief ecnomist for TD wrote a few years ago that a strong social infrastructure is what is key to a stable economy and that prosperity gaps are not good overall ... case in point: the US ... well - harper is taking us down that road ...
Comments
This could matter, last time the Lib/NDP together were within a couple of thousand votes of the Tory winner.
the wildcard is really 65% of the population that are generally not engaged politically ... i suspect conservative voters will turn out en masse ... but will the rest of the public? ... i have a feeling they won't ... also, will the centre-left of the country mobilize!?? ... and get people to vote strategically?
Good call about the lack of engagement providing the uncertainty. Polls typically have something around 20-25% undecided, if they vote who knows, but that's a big if. Early on in this thread the probability of a pathetic voter turn-out was raised, and it doesn't seem that much has changed there. Talked with a friend last night who is definitely engaged/aware/interested politically, but he's struggling to care this time around. Wonder how common that is?
But the intention of (or need for) strategic voting came up in 2008 as well (and possibly earlier) and it doesn't seem to have much effect. Lots of people vote for a party more than a particular candidate, and for a life-long NDP supporter voting Liberal isn't easy, regardless of what they think about Harper.
Good luck, canucks!
The NDP are going to put another candidate in place.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
i dunno ... i'm fortunate in that the conservatives finish last in my riding ... even lower than the green candidate ... however, as much as I believe in the necessity of "third-party" candidates ... i think a harper majority would be bad for the country and i suspect that if i was in a similar position - i would vote strategic ....
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/poli ... bates?bn=1)
She does not appear to be getting much support to in the debate, or not as much as last time.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Just like this campaign, whats the point, lets vote already. All parties are making promises that can't be kept or won't be kept. I was ready to support Layton until he went off about the credit card interest rates, like really, that's an issue of personal responsibility, don't use them if you don't like the interest rates, duh.
Iggy and is $1000 a year for post secondary education, in which he eliminates 2 credits, so this really amounts to $480 a year.
Harper's income splitting which will cost 2.5 billion a year and only really work for those who probably don't need the help.
Typical Canadian politics, full of bullshit.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Like I said before, all these leaders need to go and be replaced, we should do as Belgium and have no government.
No government, no problem
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/gover ... story.html
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
That's my recollection as well, and is why I agree completely with the suggestion of a Harper v Ignatieff debate. The 2008 English debate was just Question Period, which is an embarrassment.
I can't see who Harper's trying to woo with income splitting. I think that Ignatieff should be looking at more than university/college and do something to get people into vocational training. We've got plenty of degree-holders driving hack as it is, let's have some skilled trades please.
I agree 1000% about needing vocational training. We need to get that type of training started high school. They have been removing auto shop and electrical, etc. from schools. Not every student who takes these courses will pursue the trades but if you get the hook in just few in every school it will give these kids great careers and with excellent pay. The reason they are being removed is the cost to operate programs such as auto, the government needs to get funding into place for these programs in high school.
My dad was maintenance mechanic and went to school in the 50's to a vocational high school, apprenticed for 4 years and never once laid off or out of work, made a good income.
Thats the problem with these clowns running today, none of them are talking about what most of us are concerned about, the lack of good paying jobs, getting people re-trained into good jobs, the high cost of living, the fact that taxes are to high and you could go on, they just don't want to face reality.
I do not want to hear about these bullshit green energy jobs that are too few, and poorly paid. A solar plant just hired about 80 people, average pay $14/hour. The government should have been busting their tail to save the auto industry/or offering incentives to get these companies here, they pay mid 20's. I am opposed to direct incentives, but if you get a Honda or Toyota here for 20-30 years you'll probably get any incentives back quite easily.
The whole process is a joke, then the wonder why people don't vote, imo.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Read more: http://www.canada.com/From+Ignatieff+lo ... z1IQdIY3ZN
I have lost so much sleep worrying that all 3 coast weren't equally recognized, and this man wants to be PM, right!!!
Layton vows to boost support for veterans
http://www.windsorstar.com/Layton+spend ... story.html
My favourite part of the article is he wants to spend 1 million so veterans can go from helmets to hard hats and get jobs in the construction industry. First question why construction? Why not any vocational training, college or university they want? I wonder if he consulted veterans, maybe after serving in noising war zones or peace keeping operations the last place they want to be is a noisy construction site.
Seriously can we do as Belgium and just skip the government, if this is the best this country can do we are in trouble!!!
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
http://www.windsorstar.com/Layton+unvei ... story.html
Wants to double CPP, which means they'll have to raise premiums considerably to pay for this. Any fixing of CPP should be done voluntarily and those who want their CPP doubled should pay for it. How can Layton speak for me? I have a good company pension, and put money away on the side, the last thing I need is for more payroll taxes. I been looking after my retirement for 20 years, like I'm suppose to.
I was ready to support him, but all the NDP want to do his come up with these wild ideas that's sure to reduce my take home pay.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
if i was the campaign strategist for the leaders - here would be my focus:
Harper: Continue with negative ads and fear mongering; continue to not offer anything of substance
Ignatieff: Focus on Harper's record as PM - he's literally done nothing for the country except create massive debt and give us a bad name internationally.
Layton: Focus on the fact he isn't Harper or Ignatieff and that the NDP can govern from the centre without satisfying specific agendas and corporate bases ...
May: Address notions of democracy to keep Green party in the news. Focus on winning the 2 or 3 seats they have a shot at including hers in Victoria.
From the G&M article on the topic...
"Pensioners and workers on long-term disability would be the first creditors to collect when a company goes under, according to the NDP proposal."
I can't believe that I'm about to type this, but I completely agree with Layton on that point. However, in principal I agree that it should be our choice, and some sort of opt-out should exist. I'm not an actuary but frankly I'd like to see the analysis, not the musings of a politician in election-mode. How does the changing age-structure of our work-force (e.g. the boomer retirement) impact the cost and funding of the plan today and 15 years from now? How certain is the 2.5% premium hike he's talking about? Can he guarantee that 20-odd years from now there will be a CPP from which I can collect what I've contributed? I'm pretty sure I can predict his answers to those questions, but still worth asking.
Ignatieff also needs to convince us that he's PM material, and I don't think that simply telling us how awful Harper was/is suffices in that regard. Harper had plenty of help establishing big deficits (e.g. the recession cannot be laid at his feet), and he inherited a massive debt that's been growing pretty consistently since at least Trudeau's time. Very difficult for to trash him solely on economics, imo. The nastiness of our politics, well that's another story entirely, one that probably is entirely Harper.
At least part of his base (labour) has pretty specific agendas that need heeding, no?
She's in a tough spot and I'm not sure that she or her advisers have the political nous to get out of it.
As of now, neither leader is worthy of being PM.
I love these Iggy quotes.
Are we talking about the same Michael Ignatieff who praised the United States, going so far as to call himself an American?
“You have to decide what kind of America you want...It’s your country just as much as it is mine.” (C-SPAN, June 17, 2004)
“I want to make it clear; there isn't an anti-American bone in my body. I love the republic I live in.” (Sunday Edition with Michael Enright, CBC Radio, Sept. 16, 2001.
“I think that one of the ‐--‐ that almost the nemesis of American power is that we are deeply hated and simultaneously supposed to have magical powers.” (Charlie Rose Show, April 28, 2004)
Are we talking about the same Michael Ignatieff who repeatedly bashed Canada, its flag and its people?
Ignatieff told an interviewer that “the only thing he missed about Canada was Algonquin Park”. (Maclean’s, November 20, 2006)
Ignatieff described the Canadian flag as “a passing imitation of a beer label” (The Observer, July 8, 1990), and
Ignatieff said, "Quebeckers walk around with this fantasy of how different they are, but they are just North Americans who speak French...They take the minor difference and magnify it." (Globe and Mail. April 2, 1998)
The JC era was extremely flawed and only 3 majorities because the opposition was so weak.
LIST OF LIBERAL SCANDALS
1. Cancelling the Sea King replacement
2. Sponsorship scandal
3. Gun Registry
4. HRDC fraud boondoggle
5. Problems with Transition Job Funds program
6. Tainted blood
7. Radwanski Spending Affair
8. Pearson Airport
9. GST Flip Flop
10. Airbus Investigation
11. Voting against Red Book promise of independent Ethics Commissioner
12. Irving fishing lodge stays/travel on Irving jets for cabinet ministers
13. Martin traveling on private corporate jets as Finance Minister
14. Don Boudria’s stay at Boulay owned chalet
15. Denis Coderre staying with Boulay
16. Alfonso Gagliano being appointed Ambassador to Denmark
17. Shawinigate
18. Claude Gauthier (PM’s friend)’s Transelec getting CIDA grant that was questioned by the Auditor General and even CIDA.
19. Liberal fundraiser Pierre Corbeil charged with fraud by RCMP after he approached several Quebec companies seeking federal job training grants and asking for payments to Liberal Party, having gotten the names from senior Quebec Liberal Minister, Marcel Massé.
20. Michel Dupuy, Heritage Minister, lobbying the CRTC.
21. Tom Wappel refusing to help blind veteran
22. Gagliano’s son benefiting from contracts from his father’s department
23. Gagliano’s former speechwriter, Michèle Tremblay was on a $5,000 a month retainer with the Canada Lands Company to provide speeches for the Minister. Former President John Grant let her go saying “we got nothing in return.” Grant claimed that all Crown Corporations reporting to Mr. Gagliano were told to put Ms. Tremblay on a monthly retainer.
24. Iltis replacement
25. Purchase of new Challenger jets for the Prime Minister and cabinet
26. NATO Flying Training program contract
27. Liberal friends appointed as IRB judges being investigated by RCMP
28. Hedy Fry’s imaginary burning crosses
29. Maria Minna’s improper municipal vote
30. Minna giving contracts to two former campaign staffers for public relations work for a conference that had already been held
31. Lawrence MacAulay and contracts directed to Holland College
32. Lawrence MacAulay and Tim Banks
33. Lawrence MacAulay hired his official agent, Everett Roche, for $70K, but Roche never did any work for it. (Oct 2002)
34. Art Eggleton and contracts to his ex-girlfriend
35. Copps’ aide Boyer’s spending habits
36. Collenette resigns for breach of ethical guidelines involving a letter he wrote to the Immigration and Refugee Board
37. APEC Inquiry
38. Andy Scott's 1998 resignation that came eight weeks too late, after a media circus wore him down for indiscreetly shooting his mouth off on an airplane.
39. Anti-American comments by Liberal MPs, officials, and the former Minister of Natural Resources.
40. Rock and the Apotex/Cipro affair
41. Rock giving Health Canada contract to car cleaning company.
JC and Martin are to blame for the deficits that many of the provinces have accumulated because they cut transfer payments to the provinces back in the 90's
A big complaint of mine is the mismanagement of EI system, the liberals were allowed to build up this big surplus 50 +billion. Whatever happened to it? For me now it's kind of irrelevant what happened to it.
It should never have been allowed to grow that big. The money should only be allowed to be spent on out of work workers. The EI needs a board that consist of members from the Canadian Labor Congress, Provincial Labor Congress as well as a representative from the union to help keep an eye on the fund, no loger should government be making decisions alone on what to do with the EI fund.
I highly doubt any majority will be formed from this election...but I really think the first party that gets rid of it's leader and decides to move his/her party to the centre has a good chance at forming a majority in the future.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
what makes someone PM worthy? ... i mean stephane dion was clearly outed as NOT being worthy but the guy had integrity ... something you can't say about Iggy and Harper ... i'd much rather have a guy who looks like a dweeb be PM as long as he had some integrity and truly governed in the interests of all canadians ...
you guys hear about Harper's speech to ethnic minorities ... where he calls them "You People"? ... it's funny how he's pandering for their vote but you know he has a personal disdain for them ... (see long form census)
Being honest I can live with 2.5% as long as I know how it's being managed. I haven't been preparing for retirement particularly well, at least partly due to resisting the urge to graduate for far too long, but now my CPP contributions are substantial, and I just want to know that I might be able to benefit. I think that this topic resonates with the electorate though, so he'll have pleased some and pissed off others.
At the end of the Mulroney years our federal fiscal problems were horrendous, something near 30 cents of every dollar we shipped to Ottawa went to paying the interest on the debt. Not sure about the number today but it's better, and I think it impossible to see that as a bad thing.
Whoa, I just defended Chretien and agreed with Layton on the same day...
All politicians pander to their base, at least as long as they want to be re-elected, which seems job 1. Dion was also pandering to a base, but it wasn't as big as he'd hoped or thought, and in some ways I think the Greens have the same problem.
The 'you people' speech was out west last week, speaking to an Indo-Canadian group, right?
Dion got outed by his own party, I think even the most optimistic liberal didn't think Dion would win at his first crack at PM.
I was talking about provincial deficits, they cut transfer payment so many of the provinces ended having to run deficits to keep up.
Yes federally thats part of the deficit problem, no doubt, he also cut the GST, which has contributed to the deficit problem, he also increased transfer payments to the provinces that has contributed to the deficit.
I don't know much about tax rates...I kind of see three choices we have...we need competitive corporate tax, a lower $$$, or lower wages. I don't see the $$$ going below 90 cents in the near future, unless we manipulate the currency like China (lets not), lower wages, well thats kind of happening now, but our economy is not based on the vast majority of people working for low wages. In my opinion if we can get business's like Toyota or Honda here because we have the lowest or most competitive tax rates I'm on board, those companies are good companies that employ anywhere from 1000-2000 people making very liveable wages, but if where have those green energy jobs then screw them...a solar plant near here was hiring 80 people and the pay was 14 an hour, not exactly great wages. I'd rather go after the auto jobs and get new plants opening up, pretty sure Honda and Toyota will be here 30 years from now, not so sure about that solar plant.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
true ... but what i meant by base isn't the demographic that votes conservative ... i'm refering to the people that fund and set policy for the conservatives ...
and yeah ... it was a speech to the southasian population in etobicok/brampton
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... le1969266/
I found these 2 articles interesting. I am still looking for the TV ad where Harper is talking about how canada economy is doing great and how it is the envy of the world. but will post that up when i find it.
he got railroaded by the old school liberals who are disconnected with the populace ...
i think you are saying he cut trasfer payments and increased transfer payments ... not sure ...
i'm all for decent paying and fair pay ... but auto jobs are ridiculous ... is it any wonder they all had problems ...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Martin and Chretien cut transfer and Harper negotiated a deal with the provinces to increase transfer payments.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
uhhh ... he's been doing it for 4 years ... i particularly love how all questions to the PM DURING A FUCKING ELECTION have to be screened ...
In some respects our economy, at least our banking sector, is envied internationally. I don't think that's debatable, although other aspects of how we fared out of the recession certainly are. Anyway Harper has always shielded himself from the unscripted, that's why the debates are so important, and why having four people attack him reduces the value of the excercise. Hopefully the moderator can get them to use their inside voices...
our banking sector is definitely what saved us to some respect ... but guess what the economists at the banks want? ... not more corporate tax cuts and such ... the chief ecnomist for TD wrote a few years ago that a strong social infrastructure is what is key to a stable economy and that prosperity gaps are not good overall ... case in point: the US ... well - harper is taking us down that road ...