canadian government held in contemp

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  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Poll: Conservatives have 19-point lead

    http://news.nationalpost.com/photo_gall ... oint-lead/
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • byttermanbytterman Posts: 136
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Poll: Conservatives have 19-point lead

    http://news.nationalpost.com/photo_gall ... oint-lead/


    From the breakdown numbers at the bottom of that article it looks as though few people think that this election is necessary. Will be interesting to see how all the leaders spin those numbers.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Poll: Conservatives have 19-point lead

    http://news.nationalpost.com/photo_gall ... oint-lead/

    the conservatives have done a masterful job on the PR front ... they've made it seem like the opposition parties want this election when in fact, Harper is desperate for an election ...
  • byttermanbytterman Posts: 136
    polaris_x wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Poll: Conservatives have 19-point lead

    http://news.nationalpost.com/photo_gall ... oint-lead/

    the conservatives have done a masterful job on the PR front ... they've made it seem like the opposition parties want this election when in fact, Harper is desperate for an election ...


    Agreed. And for Harper it's at least partly because of this...

    Poll shows increasing voter skepticism about Harper government
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/poll-shows-increasing-voter-skepticism-about-harper-government/article1955978/
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    bytterman wrote:
    Agreed. And for Harper it's at least partly because of this...

    Poll shows increasing voter skepticism about Harper government
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/poll-shows-increasing-voter-skepticism-about-harper-government/article1955978/

    unless something crazy happens (Harper caught with kiddie porn) - the Conservatives will get their majority based on our current voting system ... they have shown that they are best at campaigning without substance nor platform ... they will be on every social networking site and their ads will be negative but effective ...

    elections are fought these days using dirty dirty tactics ... and the left suck at it ...
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    polaris_x wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Poll: Conservatives have 19-point lead

    http://news.nationalpost.com/photo_gall ... oint-lead/

    the conservatives have done a masterful job on the PR front ... they've made it seem like the opposition parties want this election when in fact, Harper is desperate for an election ...

    Agree! For the most part all leaders in Canada try to manipulate the election when they are polling high. The fixed election date federally is a joke, it only works when there is a majority.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • byttermanbytterman Posts: 136
    lukin2006 wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Poll: Conservatives have 19-point lead

    http://news.nationalpost.com/photo_gall ... oint-lead/

    the conservatives have done a masterful job on the PR front ... they've made it seem like the opposition parties want this election when in fact, Harper is desperate for an election ...

    Agree! For the most part all leaders in Canada try to manipulate the election when they are polling high. The fixed election date federally is a joke, it only works when there is a majority.

    Wasn't the fixed date brought in because Chretien kept having elections 12 or 18 months 'early', despite big majorities and a fractured right? The Liberals can only make inroads by focussing on the conduct of the Harper govt, less so on policies I think. Harper will retaliate in kind, the campaign will turn into a mud-slinging fest devoid of any policy/issue discussion, and the electorate will tune right out.
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    bytterman wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:

    the conservatives have done a masterful job on the PR front ... they've made it seem like the opposition parties want this election when in fact, Harper is desperate for an election ...

    Agree! For the most part all leaders in Canada try to manipulate the election when they are polling high. The fixed election date federally is a joke, it only works when there is a majority.

    Wasn't the fixed date brought in because Chretien kept having elections 12 or 18 months 'early', despite big majorities and a fractured right? The Liberals can only make inroads by focussing on the conduct of the Harper govt, less so on policies I think. Harper will retaliate in kind, the campaign will turn into a mud-slinging fest devoid of any policy/issue discussion, and the electorate will tune right out.

    I'm not sure if Chretien was calling the election early, but he did call them when he was polling well. But it kind of looks like Harper in comfortably in majority territory, so he might just have to avoid any mistakes.

    I really think the longer Iggy refuses to rule coalition government out the worse it will get for him.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    i was ok with the fixed election date ... but that was one of a plethora of broken promises by Harper ...
  • byttermanbytterman Posts: 136
    lukin2006 wrote:

    I'm not sure if Chretien was calling the election early, but he did call them when he was polling well. But it kind of looks like Harper in comfortably in majority territory, so he might just have to avoid any mistakes.

    I really think the longer Iggy refuses to rule coalition government out the worse it will get for him.

    Sorry I wrote that poorly, I was only meaning that he was working the election date to suit his polling numbers, as was his privilege at the time. I'd be really interested to see how the electorate would respond to an up-front, pre-election 'this is the option we're presenting' Lib/NDP coalition. And just as interesting would be to see how long it lasted if they did indeed form a government. I'd be lying if I said I was keen on the idea, but depending on what they said (and more importantly did) budget-wise I'm open to a new way of running the place.

    polaris_x wrote:
    i was ok with the fixed election date ... but that was one of a plethora of broken promises by Harper ...

    Not sure how this can be considered a broken promise, because in a minority situation he can, and has, lost the confidence of the House at any time. Now I agree that sometime he does it intentionally...
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    How do you have fixed election dates with a minority parliament? Technically he not the one forcing this election, he set the trap, doesn't mean they have to take the bait.

    As for broken promises, find me a politician or government that doesn't. They all lie, that is probably why the profession gets very little respect.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    bytterman wrote:
    Not sure how this can be considered a broken promise, because in a minority situation he can, and has, lost the confidence of the House at any time. Now I agree that sometime he does it intentionally...

    the 2008 election was his call .. after putting in place the fixed election date ...
  • sparky_frysparky_fry Posts: 760
    well looks like we're heading for an election........


    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... efeat.html

    I'd rather vote for the green party then these two chumps
  • the NDP needs to wake up and get a leader. they'll never get in with Layton. and all those nasty ads about Iggy on tv, even I'm starting to believe all of it.

    Harper will rule again simply because there is no better option.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Paul David wrote:
    the NDP needs to wake up and get a leader. they'll never get in with Layton. and all those nasty ads about Iggy on tv, even I'm starting to believe all of it.

    Harper will rule again simply because there is no better option.


    I don't much care for Layton. The one ad I do believe is the one where it's stated that he's here for himself. I agree there is just no better option.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • byttermanbytterman Posts: 136
    polaris_x wrote:
    bytterman wrote:
    Not sure how this can be considered a broken promise, because in a minority situation he can, and has, lost the confidence of the House at any time. Now I agree that sometime he does it intentionally...

    the 2008 election was his call .. after putting in place the fixed election date ...

    It was and remains impossible for a minority government to guarantee an election date. I know that you're right that he called it in 08 but the Liberals were most certainly targeting an end to that government; Harper just beat them to it with the argument that parliament was disfunctional. I guess I see it as semantics, or maybe just politics.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Paul David wrote:
    the NDP needs to wake up and get a leader. they'll never get in with Layton. and all those nasty ads about Iggy on tv, even I'm starting to believe all of it.

    Harper will rule again simply because there is no better option.

    i disagree ... the guy has taken the party to at least some relevance ... the only way for the NDP to make bigger gains is by dissolving the party and restarting which is what the conservatives did ...

    the fact is that layton is the only guy interested in actually making gov't work for canadians and his record as a politician is pretty damm good ... having said all that - he is the MP of my riding and I will be voting Green as that is who I typically vote for ...

    still - the reality is the voter base is simply not engaged enough to warrant real leaders who have canadian interests at heart ... the issues are secondary ... the attack ads and myths will run rampant ...
  • polaris_x wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    the NDP needs to wake up and get a leader. they'll never get in with Layton. and all those nasty ads about Iggy on tv, even I'm starting to believe all of it.

    Harper will rule again simply because there is no better option.

    i disagree ... the guy has taken the party to at least some relevance ... the only way for the NDP to make bigger gains is by dissolving the party and restarting which is what the conservatives did ...

    the fact is that layton is the only guy interested in actually making gov't work for canadians and his record as a politician is pretty damm good ... having said all that - he is the MP of my riding and I will be voting Green as that is who I typically vote for ...

    still - the reality is the voter base is simply not engaged enough to warrant real leaders who have canadian interests at heart ... the issues are secondary ... the attack ads and myths will run rampant ...

    yes, he has gained them a better standing. but, a lot of people don't really see this guy as a potential national leader. and I lean towards NDP. I just don't see him leading on a national level.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    I can not see the NDP ever forming a national government. He's no more interested in making government work than the rest of them. I never hear him talk of turning democracy over to Canadians in the form of referendums!!! He also got some of what he wanted in the budget, did he really think he would get it all, seriously. He should have took what he was given, instead he took the bait. The reason he took the bait is the hopes of forming a coalition government with Iffy. Which is constitutional, but something that Canadians do not want, a separate referendum question should be on the ballet.

    As far as I'm concerned Canadians would be more engaged if we did not just go to the voting booth and then the politicians do whatever they want till the next election.

    We also might see people voting more. It makes me laugh when people think they have a real democracy, far from, vote every 4 years or so then get dictated to.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • tvismyfriendtvismyfriend Posts: 2,118
    I've been able to vote for three years now and this will be my second federal election. What a joke.
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    I've been able to vote for three years now and this will be my second federal election. What a joke.
    The way things have been going lately, you'll get a chance to vote federally quite often. But yes I agree it is a joke. I still say the only way it's going to change is for all leaders to be replaced. I am still think we need more binding referendums, you want democracy then let us decide the major issues, not the vote every so many years.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    polaris_x wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    the NDP needs to wake up and get a leader. they'll never get in with Layton. and all those nasty ads about Iggy on tv, even I'm starting to believe all of it.

    Harper will rule again simply because there is no better option.

    i disagree ... the guy has taken the party to at least some relevance ... the only way for the NDP to make bigger gains is by dissolving the party and restarting which is what the conservatives did ...

    the fact is that layton is the only guy interested in actually making gov't work for canadians and his record as a politician is pretty damm good ... having said all that - he is the MP of my riding and I will be voting Green as that is who I typically vote for ...

    still - the reality is the voter base is simply not engaged enough to warrant real leaders who have canadian interests at heart ... the issues are secondary ... the attack ads and myths will run rampant ...

    Are you open the idea of an NDP/Liberal merger?
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    lukin2006 wrote:
    I can not see the NDP ever forming a national government. He's no more interested in making government work than the rest of them. I never hear him talk of turning democracy over to Canadians in the form of referendums!!! He also got some of what he wanted in the budget, did he really think he would get it all, seriously. He should have took what he was given, instead he took the bait. The reason he took the bait is the hopes of forming a coalition government with Iffy. Which is constitutional, but something that Canadians do not want, a separate referendum question should be on the ballet.

    The thing about layton is that he has to know that he will never be prime minister and he has to know that at least in his political career, the NDP will never form the government. So he knows that he can make all kinds of crazy promises that would sound awesome to a lot of the voters, but he will never have to figure out how to make those promises happen since he will never be in charge. I mean he could promise that if his party was given a majority he would send every Canadian a t-bone steak once a week. But since he knows he will never be PM, he never has to figure out how he is going to pay for those steaks and how many people he is going to piss off by raising the money to pay for them.
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    lukin2006 wrote:
    I can not see the NDP ever forming a national government. He's no more interested in making government work than the rest of them. I never hear him talk of turning democracy over to Canadians in the form of referendums!!! He also got some of what he wanted in the budget, did he really think he would get it all, seriously. He should have took what he was given, instead he took the bait. The reason he took the bait is the hopes of forming a coalition government with Iffy. Which is constitutional, but something that Canadians do not want, a separate referendum question should be on the ballet.

    The thing about layton is that he has to know that he will never be prime minister and he has to know that at least in his political career, the NDP will never form the government. So he knows that he can make all kinds of crazy promises that would sound awesome to a lot of the voters, but he will never have to figure out how to make those promises happen since he will never be in charge. I mean he could promise that if his party was given a majority he would send every Canadian a t-bone steak once a week. But since he knows he will never be PM, he never has to figure out how he is going to pay for those steaks and how many people he is going to piss off by raising the money to pay for them.

    I agree. I tend to think he figures if they can hold Harper to a minority, then the liberals and ndp will get a shot at a coalition supported by the bloc. Layton knows this is the only way he'll get a chance to sit in government, so I figure he wanted this election just as much as Harper, only Harper can say "I never called the election" and he's telling the truth.

    Harper might end up with a majority though. If that happens, I can't see Iffy, Layton or Deceppe around for any more elections.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Canadians trust Harper to be best leader: poll

    Read more: http://www.canada.com/news/Canadians+tr ... z1HrXHCbsw
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Harper's coalition criticism backfires as past comes back to haunt him

    Read more: http://www.canada.com/news/Harper+coali ... z1HrZ6vIhR

    Will this come back and haunt him? Not really sure, he seems kind of teflon, time will tell.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • tvismyfriendtvismyfriend Posts: 2,118
    Does anyone else find this quote a tad disturbing?

    "We began in 2005 and that was to defeat the government so that we could go to the election and get our own mandate. That's how the Conservative party formed the government," said Harper.

    I don't think I can trust someone that is as power hungry as Harper is.
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Does anyone else find this quote a tad disturbing?

    "We began in 2005 and that was to defeat the government so that we could go to the election and get our own mandate. That's how the Conservative party formed the government," said Harper.

    I don't think I can trust someone that is as power hungry as Harper is.


    You're right not to trust him. I don't trust any politician simply because they are all power hungry. On the other hand and setting the trust issue aside I think they have to be wanting and grasping for power, thats what there supporters want. Politicians in many way are like heads of corporations they got a base to satisfy, the only way to satisfy that base is to form the government.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Are you open the idea of an NDP/Liberal merger?

    not really ... i'm a socialist thru and thru ...

    i do believe that most canadians are centrists and that the ruling party ideally in a minority situation governs from the centre ...
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    The thing about layton is that he has to know that he will never be prime minister and he has to know that at least in his political career, the NDP will never form the government. So he knows that he can make all kinds of crazy promises that would sound awesome to a lot of the voters, but he will never have to figure out how to make those promises happen since he will never be in charge. I mean he could promise that if his party was given a majority he would send every Canadian a t-bone steak once a week. But since he knows he will never be PM, he never has to figure out how he is going to pay for those steaks and how many people he is going to piss off by raising the money to pay for them.

    this is the thing that troubles me about our elections ... the only reason why the NDP can't form gov't is because of myths like this ... the reality is that the NDP isn't making promises that aren't reasonable ... does anyone actually review platforms before they vote? ... the Conservatives didn't even have an official platform until like a day before the last election ... Layton has a history of success at every level he has operated and without debt ...

    we have a ginormous defecit now because of a severe right wing agenda ...

    i am pretty positive that if an ndp gov't was in power during the financial meltdown - we'd have way less debt right now ...
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