Religious Beliefs

pandora

Smellyman wrote:

One thing Atheists and Christians can believe in....

http://i.imgur.com/cTT7m.jpg

:shock: holy camoly!.... great thought

pdalowsky

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

When I was a little boy I believed in God, faeries, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

Then one day I grew up.

I don't need the threat of some magic land of lava and pain called "hell" to keep me in line. The idea that you're constantly being watched by God and being judged... it's just a way to keep people scared. To control them.

interesting line

im of a similar thought

Religion seems to be based on the fastasy Ideals that people create to make life more meaningful and to give it purpose.

But behind all religion is money, and we know money always brings trouble.

I found it farsical that one of the last times i was in a church (a pre wedding service) the Vicar rambled on about the credit crunch and money worries of his flock. He told the handful of people who still turn up every week not to worry about money because jesus wouldnt let you suffer......and immediately after he stopped bleating on about people shouldnt worry about their mortgage he passed around the donation tray.

Seems some people need to believe in a 'god'....thats cool, thats their call, it helps them deal with pain I guess.

But the bible is a book full of hyprocrisy and confusion. and of course has a huge fictional content. In real terms its like the equivalent of a book written today becoming a new holy writing in 2000 years.

After all, I understand the bible was written what 100 years after Christ? how on earth do we know whats in it isnt total nonsense?

and Jesus? seriously if a guy came into your town in todays world and claimed to perform miracles would you honestly give him the time of day? I dare say he would be sectioned under the mental health act. david Copperfield's exploits being the only potential explanation.

And seriously, if your daughter popped home and claimed to be a virgin who was pregnant would anyone in the world believe her knowing what we know today? Science isnt always conclusive but it has taught us a lot.

That said I admire those with a faith, i see it makes them strong, and there is no harm in that. Sadly religion doesnt stop there.

Yet personally Im a i must see it or understand it to really believe it.

and really if God really did the Adam and Eve thing and created man in the 7 day creation period (he was on a roll that week), why on earth are we not finding fossilised humans with the dinasaurs.....fossils tell us Dinasaurs predated man by almost 30 million years, not 6days as would be suggested in Gods master week.

ramble over

pandora

Cynicism can close our eyes and minds to the possibilities
then we will not see nor understand nor believe

I believe in positive thought, I believe in miracles
and I believe in the possibilities

wolfamongwolves

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

When I was a little boy I believed in God, faeries, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

Then one day I grew up.

I've always liked a particular bible quote that speaks nicely to that idea:
"When I was a child I spoke as a child I understood as a child I thought as a child; but when I became a man I put away childish things." I Cor. xiii. 11

pdalowsky wrote:

I understand the bible was written what 100 years after Christ? how on earth do we know whats in it isnt total nonsense?

Not exactly. The Gospels were written in that timeframe, something like between 80-100 AD. But the Bible is a collection of distinct, separate books that were written over a period of maybe 1,000 years, mostly before Jesus, and only later (at least 400 years after Jesus) edited and compiled (quite a few times and quite a few different ways) into the Bible. That's one of the big reasons why it's so full of "confusion" & inconsistency. It's not, and never was, a single coherent text.

I'm reading a really intersting book at the moment called "Jesus for the Non-religious", written by a bishop (John Shelby Spong). He goes through the gospels with a fine-toothed comb & puts them very much in the context of their times (which is something that those who take the bible literally tend to miss entirely) & he ends up in pretty much the same position as you, pdalowsky.

I find that many of the points he makes really confirm my own atheism, and yet he still finds a way to confirm his own belief - so just for that alone, I'd recommend it to everyone on this thread (religious & non-). If you're interested enough in this subject to be in this thread, you're probably likely to find it a pretty fascinating read.

pdalowsky

pandora wrote:

Cynicism can close our eyes and minds to the possibilities
then we will not see nor understand nor believe

I believe in positive thought, I believe in miracles
and I believe in the possibilities

without wishing to become embroiled in a personal debate on this, I read this as saying: -

questionning what appears fiction with a common sense approach will close the door to a world of fantasy

pandora

pdalowsky wrote:

pandora wrote:

Cynicism can close our eyes and minds to the possibilities
then we will not see nor understand nor believe

I believe in positive thought, I believe in miracles
and I believe in the possibilities

without wishing to become embroiled in a personal debate on this, I read this as saying: -

questionning what appears fiction with a common sense approach will close the door to a world of fantasy

you read my words as that? no...
I think perhaps you mean this is a positive way to look at your post...
I would agree
you put a positive spin on your original post

but

key word here is appears this means it is not fact .... it is a judgement

questioning is not cynical...nor comes with predisposed answers

one must stay objective and positive and in need of an answer

purely open to receive

pandora

wolfamongwolves wrote:

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

When I was a little boy I believed in God, faeries, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

Then one day I grew up.

I've always liked a particular bible quote that speaks nicely to that idea:
"When I was a child I spoke as a child I understood as a child I thought as a child; but when I became a man I put away childish things." I Cor. xiii. 11

pdalowsky wrote:

I understand the bible was written what 100 years after Christ? how on earth do we know whats in it isnt total nonsense?

Not exactly. The Gospels were written in that timeframe, something like between 80-100 AD. But the Bible is a collection of distinct, separate books that were written over a period of maybe 1,000 years, mostly before Jesus, and only later (at least 400 years after Jesus) edited and compiled (quite a few times and quite a few different ways) into the Bible. That's one of the big reasons why it's so full of "confusion" & inconsistency. It's not, and never was, a single coherent text.

I'm reading a really intersting book at the moment called "Jesus for the Non-religious", written by a bishop (John Shelby Spong). He goes through the gospels with a fine-toothed comb & puts them very much in the context of their times (which is something that those who take the bible literally tend to miss entirely) & he ends up in pretty much the same position as you, pdalowsky.

I find that many of the points he makes really confirm my own atheism, and yet he still finds a way to confirm his own belief - so just for that alone, I'd recommend it to everyone on this thread (religious & non-). If you're interested enough in this subject to be in this thread, you're probably likely to find it a pretty fascinating read.

thank you for this post and your understanding ways that I always see in you.

I will hunt the book down it sounds very interesting

oh but I will never put away childish things as they speak to my heart

wolfamongwolves

pandora wrote:

thank you for this post and your understanding ways that I always see in you.

Aw shucks. Wasn't expecting a compliment. :oops:

pdalowsky

pandora wrote:

pdalowsky wrote:

pandora wrote:

Cynicism can close our eyes and minds to the possibilities
then we will not see nor understand nor believe

I believe in positive thought, I believe in miracles
and I believe in the possibilities

without wishing to become embroiled in a personal debate on this, I read this as saying: -

questionning what appears fiction with a common sense approach will close the door to a world of fantasy

you read my words as that? no...
I think perhaps you mean this is a positive way to look at your post...
I would agree
you put a positive spin on your original post

but

key word here is appears this means it is not fact .... it is a judgement

questioning is not cynical...nor comes with predisposed answers

one must stay objective and positive and in need of an answer

purely open to receive

oh cool, so in my original post i wasnt being cynical...merely inquisitive?

pandora

wolfamongwolves wrote:

pandora wrote:

thank you for this post and your understanding ways that I always see in you.

Aw shucks. Wasn't expecting a compliment. :oops:

You deserve to know you impress others

pandora

pdalowsky wrote:

oh cool, so in my original post i wasnt being cynical...merely inquisitive?

well my original post, it wasn't solely directed at you... my words...
they were general
but your post did sound a teeny bit cynical or skeptical is maybe the better word
sorry...I don't want to offend.

Just sounded a little negative...
kind of like if a miracle dropped in your lap.. you would think it trickery
or if Jesus walked the Earth you had already decided you wouldn't believe
maybe even if you could see it and understand it.

I probably took it wrong, excuse me please.

Yes, I would hope for inquisitiveness

and I pray for miracles

brandon10

pdalowsky wrote:

pandora wrote:

Cynicism can close our eyes and minds to the possibilities
then we will not see nor understand nor believe

I believe in positive thought, I believe in miracles
and I believe in the possibilities

without wishing to become embroiled in a personal debate on this, I read this as saying: -

questionning what appears fiction with a common sense approach will close the door to a world of fantasy

You are now embroiled. Have you not been reading this thread? It's not something you want to be embroiled in with her. She talks in circles. I'm dizzy just thinking about it.

PS I liked your post. A friend of mine went to a baptism last week. She said the sermon was all about how if you don't baptize your child then they will go to hell. That is disgusting in my eyes. And then someone went around with the collection plate and apparently some big bouncer looking guy hoovered over the flock giving everyone dirty looks as the collection plate went by. How do people believe in this shit??!!

pandora

brandon10 wrote:

pdalowsky wrote:

pandora wrote:

Cynicism can close our eyes and minds to the possibilities
then we will not see nor understand nor believe

I believe in positive thought, I believe in miracles
and I believe in the possibilities

without wishing to become embroiled in a personal debate on this, I read this as saying: -

questionning what appears fiction with a common sense approach will close the door to a world of fantasy

You are now embroiled. Have you not been reading this thread? It's not something you want to be embroiled in with her. She talks in circles. I'm dizzy just thinking about it.

PS I liked your post. A friend of mine went to a baptism last week. She said the sermon was all about how if you don't baptize your child then they will go to hell. That is disgusting in my eyes. And then someone went around with the collection plate and apparently some big bouncer looking guy hoovered over the flock giving everyone dirty looks as the collection plate went by. How do people believe in this shit??!!

sorry I make you dizzy

embroiled...don't hear that much

I've never been baptized and I agree with you as far as that subject goes.

although you are only looking at the negative, there are good things about religion and church but if you can not see them I guess they don't exist

I don't follow a religion or go to church but believe in a supreme being,
I believe in working towards unconditional love for all humanity.

not much of a circle really... pretty much straight forward

brandon10

I know how you feel Pandora. It took a while but I got there. I think you are off your rocker a little. But you sound like a lovely person.

pandora

brandon10 wrote:

I know how you feel Pandora. It took a while but I got there. I think you are off your rocker a little. But you sound like a lovely person.

oh that is so sweet thank you.... that means a lot to me

pdalowsky

brandon10 wrote:

pdalowsky wrote:

pandora wrote:

Cynicism can close our eyes and minds to the possibilities
then we will not see nor understand nor believe

I believe in positive thought, I believe in miracles
and I believe in the possibilities

without wishing to become embroiled in a personal debate on this, I read this as saying: -

questionning what appears fiction with a common sense approach will close the door to a world of fantasy

You are now embroiled. Have you not been reading this thread? It's not something you want to be embroiled in with her. She talks in circles. I'm dizzy just thinking about it.

PS I liked your post. A friend of mine went to a baptism last week. She said the sermon was all about how if you don't baptize your child then they will go to hell. That is disgusting in my eyes. And then someone went around with the collection plate and apparently some big bouncer looking guy hoovered over the flock giving everyone dirty looks as the collection plate went by. How do people believe in this shit??!!

Im getting out of here !!

fair to say you and i are very much on the same page.

and you are right Pandora always deals with these things in the nicest way possible. My full respect there.

I dont always follow it but thats that

pandora

pdalowsky wrote:

brandon10 wrote:

You are now embroiled. Have you not been reading this thread? It's not something you want to be embroiled in with her. She talks in circles. I'm dizzy just thinking about it.

PS I liked your post. A friend of mine went to a baptism last week. She said the sermon was all about how if you don't baptize your child then they will go to hell. That is disgusting in my eyes. And then someone went around with the collection plate and apparently some big bouncer looking guy hoovered over the flock giving everyone dirty looks as the collection plate went by. How do people believe in this shit??!!

Im getting out of here !!

fair to say you and i are very much on the same page.

and you are right Pandora always deals with these things in the nicest way possible. My full respect there.

I dont always follow it but thats that

Your avatar is precious... always makes me smile and brings light to my day

glad it's here and glad you are too

thank you both for attempting to understand...

that means a lot to this crazy old lady and to this crazy ass world

what the world needs more of...understanding

Flutter Girl

There is no proof, scientific, or otherwise, of how everything came into existence. I love science and know evolution is what formed us. I'm talking about the very very beginning. Perhaps even before the universe formed. Something still heavily debated by scientists.

Until we know how existence, itself, came into being, then absolutely noone can say for fact that there is no God. Who are any of us to tell someone else what they believe is wrong? Or to mock it, as a couple people did my beliefs on this thread?
All it does is lead to tearing each other down.

pandora

:wave: :thumbup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSW65Tzp ... re=related


I used to be on an endless run
Believed in miracles 'cuz I'm one
I've been blessed with the power to survive
After all these years I'm still alive

I'm out here kickin with the band
I am no longer a solitary man
Everyday my time runs out
Live like a fool, that's what i was about

Oh I believe in miracles
I believe in a better world for me and you
Oh Oh I believe in miracles
I believe in a better world for me and you

Tattooed your name on my arm
I always said my girl's a good luck charm
If she can find a reason to forgive
Then i can find a reason to live

I used to be on an endless run
Believed in miracles 'cuz I'm one
I've been blessed with the power to survive
After all these years I'm still alive

Oh I believe in miracles
I believe in a better world for me and you
Oh Oh I believe in miracles
I believe in a better world for me and you

I close my eyes and think how it might be
the future's here today
it's not too late, it's not too late oh

I believe in miracles
I believe in a better world for me and you
Oh I believe in miracles
I believe in a better world for me and you

pandora

"When God Created Mothers"

When the Good Lord was creating mothers, He was into His sixth day of "overtime" when the angel appeared and said. "You're doing a lot of fiddling around on this one."

And God said, "Have you read the specs on this order?" She has to be completely washable, but not plastic. Have 180 moveable parts...all replaceable. Run on black coffee and leftovers. Have a lap that disappears when she stands up. A kiss that can cure anything from a broken leg to a disappointed love affair. And six pairs of hands."

The angel shook her head slowly and said. "Six pairs of hands.... no way."

It's not the hands that are causing me problems," God remarked, "it's the three pairs of eyes that mothers have to have."

That's on the standard model?" asked the angel. God nodded.

One pair that sees through closed doors when she asks, 'What are you kids doing in there?' when she already knows. Another here in the back of her head that sees what she shouldn't but what she has to know, and of course the ones here in front that can look at a child when he goofs up and say. 'I understand and I love you' without so much as uttering a word."

God," said the angel touching his sleeve gently, "Get some rest tomorrow...."

I can't," said God, "I'm so close to creating something so close to myself. Already I have one who heals herself when she is sick...can feed a family of six on one pound of hamburger...and can get a nine year old to stand under a shower."

The angel circled the model of a mother very slowly. "It's too soft," she sighed.

But tough!" said God excitedly. "You can imagine what this mother can do or endure."

Can it think?"

Not only can it think, but it can reason and compromise," said the Creator.

Finally, the angel bent over and ran her finger across the cheek.

There's a leak," she pronounced. "I told You that You were trying to put too much into this model."

It's not a leak," said the Lord, "It's a tear."

What's it for?"

It's for joy, sadness, disappointment, pain, loneliness, and pride."

You are a genius, " said the angel.

Somberly, God said, "I didn't put it there."
— Erma Bombeck (When God Created Mothers)