Religious Beliefs

1…3536384041…51

Comments

  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    pandora wrote:
    of course there are many reasons people go to war.... not just religion ;)

    I said 'not just hate' - a difference. Not everything in this world is about god and religion.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    redrock wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    I was going to my belief that it is not God who makes wars it is people who hate...

    ...A sign of ignorance and lack of compassion

    I think you have just completely overlooked that these two passages of the bible (whether one believes in the 'good book' or not, it is the source reference for god) that it is written that god DID initiate war.. 'the LORD will be at war...', with revenge... As you say, a lack of compassion.

    Also, there are many reasons people go to war, not just hate.
    I have never said I follow a religion nor believe in the bible as the word of God...
    I believe in God

    why can atheists not separate the two?
    perhaps because they want to attack religion not God.

    God is too abstract for them to attempt to discredit.
    Too much unanswered unknown in the universes even for science.

    of course there are many reasons people go to war.... not just religion ;)

    I can not prove He is there ..... you must have faith

    you can not prove he is not there ..... nor can science

    But we can love each other and not hate

    God is Love .... God loves us all whether we believe or not

    This is the concrete...it is Love for all not just those who believe as we do.

    Never said I believe in a Christian God...this is what you say

    God is abstract to atheists because if they take religion out of the equation they can not prove He doesn't exist.
    There is nothing to attack this is obvious because you always return to religion when I am not a follower of religion.

    Not talking about Gods love for you..I know better than that! :lol:

    I am talking about loving each other whatever our beliefs..do you love me redrock?
    as another human being no matter my beliefs?
    I love you

    You choose to insult and patronize me so much but you can't feel that...
    what else aren't you feeling
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    redrock wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    of course there are many reasons people go to war.... not just religion ;)

    I said 'not just hate' - a difference. Not everything in this world is about god and religion.
    sorry you missed my play switch on words there.... I know you said hate

    and of course many reasons for war...none of them good enough
  • ShimmyMommy
    ShimmyMommy Posts: 7,505
    MrAbraham wrote:
    Continue to enjoy your path to enlightenment, as it is said, Out beyond ideas of wrong-doing and right-doing, there is a field, I'll meet you there.

    I want to thank you for you point of view. By saying that, tells me you are a "right-fighter". You feel your belief is the correct way, and therefore above all others. I accept your beliefs because they give you what you require right now.

    My beliefs are not based on right or wrong. To me, dwelling on the "why" would keep me in the space between denial and acceptance. I choose to accept things whichever way they are...right or wrong. By accepting, it has brought me to a place where I can practice compassion by recognizing where others are in the denial-acceptance spectrum. My beliefs are based on acceptance on things as they are, and through that acceptance, I find joy in even the darkest moment.

    “We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves.” ~ Buddha

    Thank you, Mr. Abraham. This has been enlightening. :D
    Lots of love, light and hugs to you all!
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    pandora wrote:
    Never said I believe in a Christian God...this is what you saying

    Well then I apologise for my mistake but I was really under the impression that in a thread (maybe not this one) you did say you believed in a christian type god (as opposed to hindu, etc).

    pandora wrote:
    God is abstract to atheists because if they take religion out of the equation they can not prove He doesn't exist.

    I'm impressed on how you can get into an atheists mind! ;) Abstract has nothing to do about proving or not proving. 'Abstract' concepts 'exist' via our perception of concrete. If we didn't have a 'base' for these abstract concepts, they wouldn't exist (as our mind could not process what 'abstract' then could be). Others have said it in much better terms than this. Again, atheists do understand that religion is man made and anyone can claim anything is their 'god' and worship or not worship but believe it has some 'powers'.
    pandora wrote:
    Not talking about Gods love for you..I know better than that! :lol:
    :? Umm... I'm a bit confused here... "God is Love .... God loves us all whether we believe or not". So god doesn't love me then? Bummer...


    pandora wrote:
    I am talking about loving each other whatever our beliefs..do you love me redrock?
    as another human being no matter my beliefs?
    I love you
    I don't know you Pandora so I would say, no I don't love you. At least in the sense that I think you may be taking it :? That doesn't mean I hate you either nor that I wouldn't help you get yourself back on your feet if you tripped in front of me. You are just one of millions and millions of people that I have no particular feeling for apart from normal 'humanity'. I guess, as you already mentioned, I am closed hearted.

    pandora wrote:
    You choose to insult and patronize me so much but you can't feel that...
    I guess we're not that different then. But let's not get into a slanging match ;)
    pandora wrote:
    what else aren't you feeling
    God's love?
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    ShimmyMommy wrote:
    My beliefs are not based on right or wrong. To me, dwelling on the "why" would keep me in the space between denial and acceptance. I choose to accept things whichever way they are...right or wrong. By accepting, it has brought me to a place where I can practice compassion by recognizing where others are in the denial-acceptance spectrum. My beliefs are based on acceptance on things as they are, and through that acceptance, I find joy in even the darkest moment.

    Not questioning your beliefs or anything but a question. If one accepts things as they are (right or wrong), when they are wrong, does this acceptance not dampen an aspiration to make them right (or better)? Finding joy in dark times is comforting and a great way to find solace but then does this complete acceptance of it make one only focus on this 'glimmer' as opposed to trying to get light in this darkness?
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    redrock wrote:

    Again, atheists do understand that religion is man made and anyone can claim anything is their 'god' and worship or not worship but believe it has some 'powers'.





    If atheists are accepting believers and their religions as their own thing,
    Then why the put down?

    ..if atheists believe we are cool believing

    why all the slam talk towards the Bible, rituals, God being a dirtball
    etc etc? Wouldn't you think they would be respectful of the beliefs
    and not antagonize?

    If atheists are cool with it why challenge one's beliefs at all?

    I mean read through the threads

    I didn't want to upset you by saying God loves you too...you don't want His love
    and I meant love between humans.

    No you don't have God's love. That helps you to love others whether you know them or not
    even the millions and millions, even all of humanity. It helps you to not judge and
    to keep your heart open to receive love too.

    We are not alike ...I do not insult you
    you think me preaching because you don't agree with my beliefs

    If I were an atheist
    you wouldn't call my words preaching or patronizing cause they would be your words too

    I was an atheist as a young woman, probably why I get it.
  • ShimmyMommy
    ShimmyMommy Posts: 7,505
    redrock wrote:
    ShimmyMommy wrote:
    My beliefs are not based on right or wrong. To me, dwelling on the "why" would keep me in the space between denial and acceptance. I choose to accept things whichever way they are...right or wrong. By accepting, it has brought me to a place where I can practice compassion by recognizing where others are in the denial-acceptance spectrum. My beliefs are based on acceptance on things as they are, and through that acceptance, I find joy in even the darkest moment.

    Not questioning your beliefs or anything but a question. If one accepts things as they are (right or wrong), when they are wrong, does this acceptance not dampen an aspiration to make them right (or better)? Finding joy in dark times is comforting and a great way to find solace but then does this complete acceptance of it make one only focus on this 'glimmer' as opposed to trying to get light in this darkness?

    No it does not dampen the aspiration. It puts me in a place where I can choose I to move forward or not. Take for instance when a loved one passes away. Should I not accept that they are gone and then celebrate how they lived, as opposed denying their passing and to continue to mourn the way they suffered and passed on? By doing choosing to do the first action, it brings the "glimmer" into the darkness as the light.

    No one has to understand/analyze why I do this. I was just sharing my belief in life. Isn't that what this thread was about? I accept everyone has their own way, and to scrutinize everyone else's beliefs is to belittle them. I accept other's beliefs have equal value to my own, as they serve the same purpose for each of us as individuals. I accept that I can learn from them too.
    Lots of love, light and hugs to you all!
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    ShimmyMommy wrote:
    No it does not dampen the aspiration. It puts me in a place where I can choose I to move forward or not. Take for instance when a loved one passes away. Should I not accept that they are gone and then celebrate how they lived, as opposed denying their passing and to continue to mourn the way they suffered and passed on? By doing choosing to do the first action, it brings the "glimmer" into the darkness as the light..

    Ah OK... Now that you explain it that way, I understand. I was just thinking a different kind of 'darkness'.

    ShimmyMommy wrote:
    No one has to understand/analyze why I do this. I was just sharing my belief in life. Isn't that what this thread was about? I accept everyone has their own way, and to scrutinize everyone else's beliefs is to belittle them.
    I seemed to have offended you :? - I wasn't trying to analyse or scrutinise or anything else, just a question on how one deals with 'acceptance'.
  • EmBleve
    EmBleve Posts: 3,019
    redrock wrote:
    ShimmyMommy wrote:
    No it does not dampen the aspiration. It puts me in a place where I can choose I to move forward or not. Take for instance when a loved one passes away. Should I not accept that they are gone and then celebrate how they lived, as opposed denying their passing and to continue to mourn the way they suffered and passed on? By doing choosing to do the first action, it brings the "glimmer" into the darkness as the light..

    Ah OK... Now that you explain it that way, I understand. I was just thinking a different kind of 'darkness'.

    yes, I can totally understand that example about when someone dies and acceptance in those terms. But what about issues that someone feels extremely passionate about? For example, myself, it would be animal abuse. I just cannot take and no matter how I may try to 'accept' it, I simply cannot. I guess the answer would be to do what I can about it and after that it's really out of my hands..so that would be the acceptance?? Just wondering..
  • ShimmyMommy
    ShimmyMommy Posts: 7,505
    redrock wrote:
    ShimmyMommy wrote:
    No it does not dampen the aspiration. It puts me in a place where I can choose I to move forward or not. Take for instance when a loved one passes away. Should I not accept that they are gone and then celebrate how they lived, as opposed denying their passing and to continue to mourn the way they suffered and passed on? By doing choosing to do the first action, it brings the "glimmer" into the darkness as the light..

    Ah OK... Now that you explain it that way, I understand. I was just thinking a different kind of 'darkness'.

    ShimmyMommy wrote:
    No one has to understand/analyze why I do this. I was just sharing my belief in life. Isn't that what this thread was about? I accept everyone has their own way, and to scrutinize everyone else's beliefs is to belittle them.
    I seemed to have offended you :? - I wasn't trying to analyse or scrutinise or anything else, just a question on how one deals with 'acceptance'.

    No worries, redrock. I now understand you just wanted an example. By the way, I have walked through very different kinds of darkness many times in my journey so far. I will probably walk through darkness again. I just used that example, because most people can relate to it.
    Lots of love, light and hugs to you all!
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    I relate to what shimmy says... for me I call it peace though.

    I think her thoughts lovely and inspiring and something to live by.

    Most especially her compassionate and nonjudgemental way of looking at others,

    something to strive for ... really beautiful :D
  • EmBleve
    EmBleve Posts: 3,019
    pandora wrote:
    I relate to what shimmy says... for me I call it peace though.

    I think her thoughts lovely and inspiring and something to live by.

    Most especially her compassionate and nonjudgemental way of looking at others,

    something to strive for ... really beautiful :D

    It is. :D
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    edited April 2011
    Look Pandora, when one posts time after time that god is with us whether we believe or not, that one is "closed" because we won't let god's love in, that god is love, etc. I call that some form of preaching - quite 'sermony' (if such a word existed). Maybe you don't realise you come across that way to some.

    What is wrong with 'challenging'? Have people not done this since beginning of times? Have people of faith/philosophers/men & women of science/every day people (whatever their beliefs may be) not always done so?

    You take the example of the bible, rituals (ie from organised religion?) - there are challenges, arguments and counter-arguments. What is wrong with that? Seeking knowledge? Truth (which ever 'truth' this may be)?

    Also, I don't think anyone called god a dirtbag. Just pointing out (challenging the written word, maybe waiting for a counter-challenge?) that there seem to be two sides to a god.

    pandora wrote:
    No you don't have God's love. That helps you to love others whether you know them or not
    even the millions and millions, even all of humanity. It helps you to not judge and
    to keep your heart open to receive love too.

    I do not insult you.

    Looks like you just did... :? See.. again the 'preachy' bit. I'm reading that you are implying if I did have god's love, I would probably have said I loved you too and that I love EVERYONE and that I wouldn't be such a bitch (the closed heart thing again!). So.. lack of god, lack of 'something' that would make me a better person?

    Love is a deep, strong and personal attachment, not a watered down sentiment to dish out to anyone and everyone. I might say I have a liking for humanity but that is not a sentiment as strong as LOVE.

    You may say you love everyone, even the likes of Hitler or any other monster you can think of because that's what god's love is. But I don't. I would not actively pursue to harm anyone like that, but I would not waste any sentiment either.

    Let's just end this here. You have your views, I have mine. No further 'challenges' on my side. OK? Let it be.
    Post edited by redrock on
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    ShimmyMommy wrote:
    , I have walked through very different kinds of darkness many times in my journey so far. I will probably walk through darkness again. I just used that example, because most people can relate to it.
    And I was probably thinking of one of the 'other' types of darkness you may have walked through!
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    EmBleve wrote:

    yes, I can totally understand that example about when someone dies and acceptance in those terms. But what about issues that someone feels extremely passionate about? For example, myself, it would be animal abuse. I just cannot take and no matter how I may try to 'accept' it, I simply cannot. I guess the answer would be to do what I can about it and after that it's really out of my hands..so that would be the acceptance?? Just wondering..

    I guess recognising the 'situation' exists (such as animal abuse) could be the acceptance part (eg nasty stuff like that exists) but then you are in a position to do something about it since you have acknowledged it? Maybe I'm wrong.
  • ShimmyMommy
    ShimmyMommy Posts: 7,505
    EmBleve wrote:
    redrock wrote:
    ShimmyMommy wrote:
    No it does not dampen the aspiration. It puts me in a place where I can choose I to move forward or not. Take for instance when a loved one passes away. Should I not accept that they are gone and then celebrate how they lived, as opposed denying their passing and to continue to mourn the way they suffered and passed on? By doing choosing to do the first action, it brings the "glimmer" into the darkness as the light..

    Ah OK... Now that you explain it that way, I understand. I was just thinking a different kind of 'darkness'.

    yes, I can totally understand that example about when someone dies and acceptance in those terms. But what about issues that someone feels extremely passionate about? For example, myself, it would be animal abuse. I just cannot take and no matter how I may try to 'accept' it, I simply cannot. I guess the answer would be to do what I can about it and after that it's really out of my hands..so that would be the acceptance?? Just wondering..

    I think people are misunderstanding how I define acceptance. Acceptance, to me, does not mean something ceases to exist. I am choosing to accept things from different perspectives. It means I view an event in the reality that it is, which means I accept that it may not be in my favour. Wherein, I have to accept my part of the negativity and transmute it into a positive the best way I can. If that is not enough for another person, I have to accept that too. In accepting things, I have no expectations, yet I have hope.

    You accept that it animal abuse exists. Otherwise you would not feel so strongly about it. The next step is to decide how you can rectify it. In recognizing that, you must accept you cannot save them all. However, you can save some. If you can't do that, you can at the very least, report it. If that is all you can do right now, you must accept that. Since you know what that it is never-ending, you must accept that you will have ongoing work to do. Perhaps you could see it as you have found your calling in this life. :?:
    Lots of love, light and hugs to you all!
  • EmBleve
    EmBleve Posts: 3,019
    redrock wrote:
    ShimmyMommy wrote:
    , I have walked through very different kinds of darkness many times in my journey so far. I will probably walk through darkness again. I just used that example, because most people can relate to it.
    And I was probably thinking of one of the 'other' types of darkness you may have walked through!
    Yes. I admire and respect what shimmy is saying, and it is lovely....it's very hard to put into practice at all times, though...it's a struggle. There are varying degrees of 'darkness' and those degrees, and the degree or ease of acceptance, is subjective. But positivity and perspective help. :)
  • ShimmyMommy
    ShimmyMommy Posts: 7,505
    pandora wrote:
    I relate to what shimmy says... for me I call it peace though.

    I think her thoughts lovely and inspiring and something to live by.

    Most especially her compassionate and nonjudgemental way of looking at others,

    something to strive for ... really beautiful :D

    Thank you my friend.
    Lots of love, light and hugs to you all!
  • EmBleve
    EmBleve Posts: 3,019
    edited April 2011
    ShimmyMommy wrote:
    EmBleve wrote:
    wondering..

    I think people are misunderstanding how I define acceptance. Acceptance, to me, does not mean something ceases to exist. I am choosing to accept things from different perspectives. It means I view an event in the reality that it is, which means I accept that it may not be in my favour. Wherein, I have to accept my part of the negativity and transmute it into a positive the best way I can. If that is not enough for another person, I have to accept that too. In accepting things, I have no expectations, yet I have hope.

    You accept that it animal abuse exists. Otherwise you would not feel so strongly about it. The next step is to decide how you can rectify it. In recognizing that, you must accept you cannot save them all. However, you can save some. If you can't do that, you can at the very least, report it. If that is all you can do right now, you must accept that. Since you know what that it is never-ending, you must accept that you will have ongoing work to do. Perhaps you could see it as you have found your calling in this life. :?:

    Thanks, Shimmy. And Redrock. Yes, that is how I see it, too, about the acknowledgment and 'acceptance' in those terms and doing what I can about it and accept that it is all I can do....it is still a struggle though to know it exists. The letting go/acceptance part of it is sometimes the hard part. ahh, the life of a tortured soul.. haha. Always been that way.. aarrgghhh. p.s... shimmy I had considered that perhaps that is my 'calling' but my emotions could not do it. I would be a basket case and probably be hoarding animals. :)
    Post edited by EmBleve on

Categories